Ok, so if I wanted to give rangers 4th level access to druid/ranger spheres and it would be major as you say, how would it work for C/R? Either they would get all spell levels from those spheres, or access would have to be lowered to minor, meaning they'd get less than pure class rangers, which would be a precedent among multiclasses. Do I miss something?
I am still not convinced about camouflage - I think that it still would become redundant much too soon, becoming one of those spells that you use only for a couple of levels and only if you have access to nothing else of use at that level. Yes, even 100% in stealth isn't fully dependable and theoretically camouflage would help, but would you waste one of your very limited slots on it? I would probably just risk it, especially that rangers can actually survive accidental reveal.
In other words, I was correct - there would be no way for C/R to have all pure cleric and ranger spells and nothing more? Those 4th level from major access of a Ranger would give them also 5-7 level, or I would be forced to limit C/R to minor access in those spheres?
I mean pure Rangers has a set of spells Sr. A cleric of X has a set of spells Sc. Now C(of X)/R has a set of spells Sm. Does Sm=Sc+Sr (has all spells of Sc and Sr and nothing more)? Because if we give a ranger major access to sphere Q for them to have access to 4th level, than what kind of access to Q should C(of X)/R have? If also major, than it's the old OP case. If minor, they won't have the 4th level spells from Q- unless they get it also from the C(of X) side. If not, it shouldn't be probably called C/R, but treated as a completely separate quasi-single class - or am I mistaken?
Well, anything that gives a multiclass greater integrity is fine by me, especially as C/R might be the weirdest one of all. It *would* however be a deviation from how multiclasses work - with the exception of limitation to specialization and an inconsistent F/D, fixable by many mods, you get all that each of your classes gives single-classers at the same level. You literally *are* of those two classes. I know I would be annoyed if at level 12 I discovered I didn't get something that a pure class gets, unless clearly stated - it goes against the principle of least surprise.
Treating multiclasses individually is probably a good thing, I'd specially love F/M get a similar treatment, as now they are a munchkin mechanic completely unrepresentative of how professions/specialisations work IRL. If you are going to make more changes, I'd suggest forgoing the whole C/R name - are they like st. Francis and preach to squirrels, or what? That was the only reason I was nagging you for so long. I shut up now
You have a point, I was too rooted in classic, simplified game mechanics. As for the last question - given multiclass case by case spell and ability allowance - I'd say it's an argument for considering if they aren't redundant. Frankly C/R exists only because it gains residue bonuses over F/C, not because it's any different in gameplay or has some rp reasons behind it (duals are a different case). Fighter is a very generic, all-encompassing term. Maybe focus on each deity individually from the lore perspective as you do with clerics, and make a distinction only where it makes sense? Shar for one would certainly need a sneaky fighter class, but Ranger/Watcher of Helm? Does it make even any sense? Also, it conveniently means less work for you!
Hi, I tried installing the latest version available from your Github (0.75.20) and it encountered an error during install and rolled back. Log file attached. Error seems to occur around line 45431, then shows a Not found error after the rollback on line 46122. I was trying to do a full install (option 1).
EDIT: Perhaps this may help more... I just tried Option 2 and also got an error, but this time the error reads ERROR: Failure("Invalid spell number: -1"). Looks like this occurs around line 6558 on the new log I'm attaching ("Log for Option 2.txt").
Appended text to [d5sphspl.2da] [./override/spell.ids] loaded, 25826 bytes FAILURE: Invalid spell number: -1 Stopping installation because of error.
So hey - this is something that has bothered me in the past with this mod (at least I think it's this mod) - what's with clerics no longer being able to use metal armor?
I'm also using the other SoB-related mods as well as aTweaks, but as far as straight equipment mods go SoB's armor overhaul is the only thing I'm using. So it could also be SoB.
Can't reproduce. I just installed it just fine on BG2EE/EET v2.5.16. What game are you trying to install on? And what other mods have you installed first?
Ok, sorry, is this not for the first one, BGEE? I'm using the Steam edition, v2.5.17. I have no idea what you mean by EET, though.
I don't know my exact mod order, but I did use DLC Merger v1.2 first, then installed these: More Styles for Mages v1.55 Free Action Override BGEE Spawn v0.3 BG1 Unfinished Business v14 Simple XP Cap Remover The Picture Standard v0.7.1 A mod that allows the game to continue after finishing the game... sorry, don't remember exact mod name
The following I installed after the above, but before trying Faiths and Powers, in the order I'm listing: Tome and Blood v0.7 Might and Guile v3.8.13
I then tried Faiths and Powers and had the issues I reported. After failing, I skipped it and continued on to successfully install Scales of Balance v5.14.
@subtledoctor My best guess would be another mod is adding a spell: "CLERIC_PRAYER_SOMETHING" Which is giving a false positive for detecting "CLERIC_PRAYER". You can make the check more robust by altering this section of "Faiths_and_Powers/faiths_and_powers/lib/create_sphere_system.tpa", starting at line 984:
ACTION_IF (FILE_CONTAINS_EVALUATED (~spell.ids~ ~%spl%~)) BEGIN
LAF RES_NUM_OF_SPELL_NAME STR_VAR spell_name = EVAL ~%spl%~ RET spell_res spell_num END
OUTER_TEXT_SPRINT the_spell ~%spell_res%~
END
->
ACTION_IF (FILE_CONTAINS_EVALUATED (~spell.ids~ ~[ %TAB%]%spl%[ %TAB%%WNL%$]~)) BEGIN
LAF RES_NUM_OF_SPELL_NAME STR_VAR spell_name = EVAL ~%spl%~ RET spell_res spell_num END
OUTER_TEXT_SPRINT the_spell ~%spell_res%~
END
I wanted to give an update on this. So I completely removed everything, setting it back to vanilla unmodded state, then reinstalled all mods with the following exceptions:
I did not install Simple XP Cap Remover. I attempted install of Faiths and Powers before Might and Guile (but still after Tomes and Blood).
With these changes, Faiths and Powers completed the install with warnings.
I did run into an issue with Tomes and Blood, though. I went through it installing it component by component, ultimately only opting out of the spell selection dialog component (this isn't required for anything else, is it?), but when it went to install the Metamagic component, it ran into an error about not being able to find a resource. Not a big deal to me, though, so I just skipped it.
ERROR locating resource for 'COPY'
Resource [QDMG+ABJ.spl] not found in KEY file:
[./chitin.key]
Stopping installation because of error.
I think it encountered this error last time, too, but I forgot about it after running into the issue of Faiths and Powers not installing at all.
In case of an accidental double post, I apologize. I already tried posting this once, then tried editing it for a formatting change and upon submitting the change, it deleted the post (maybe I hit the wrong button?).
I just gave this a retry, uninstalling everything and bringing it back to an unmodded state, then reloaded everything (minus Simple XP Cap Remover... and actually, I think I forgot I had uninstalled it last time, too). I switched the install order of Might & Guile with Faiths & Powers so it went Tomes & Blood, F&P, then M&G. It now completes install with warnings instead of failing.
I never bothered with them myself before either, but Dorn seems like a good match for my Doomguide with his NPP and I'd forgotten about the alignment issues with paladins of one ilk or another. Really liking the high-powered turn undead ability of the Doomguide. Normally it never seems to do much in regular games as by the time that it's reasonably effective against low-level undead, you can easily kill them with melee weapons so why bother?
What's going on with Chaotic Commands? Neither my Doomguard, nor Aerie as an Abjurist of Mystra have it. Running 0.75.20 with a pretty limited number of mods, notably SCS and Item Revisions.
SCS General AI Improvements won't install because of two errors from FnP. Here is one:
[./override/CLABPA04.2DA] loaded, 4329 bytes Copying and patching 1 file ...
ERROR locating resource for 'COPY' Resource [B_FRZ00.spl] not found in KEY file: [./chitin.key] Stopping installation because of error. ERROR: [CLABPA04.2DA] -> [stratagems_external/workspace/CLABPA04.2DA] Patching Failed (COPY) (Failure("resource [B_FRZ00.spl] not found for 'COPY'")) Stopping installation because of error.
The other(dont have it in log, moved it out because of seeing it in a previous install) is in CLABDR04.2da, particularly {{{....HIVEKEEPER **** GA_%spell-res%....}}}
Same error(can't find resource for %spell-res%) in SCS Genai install. Was able to fix this by deleting the lines from the 2da(I dont use hivekeeper )
SCS General AI Improvements won't install because of two errors from FnP. Here is one:
[./override/CLABPA04.2DA] loaded, 4329 bytes Copying and patching 1 file ...
ERROR locating resource for 'COPY' Resource [B_FRZ00.spl] not found in KEY file: [./chitin.key] Stopping installation because of error. ERROR: [CLABPA04.2DA] -> [stratagems_external/workspace/CLABPA04.2DA] Patching Failed (COPY) (Failure("resource [B_FRZ00.spl] not found for 'COPY'")) Stopping installation because of error.
The other(dont have it in log, moved it out because of seeing it in a previous install) is in CLABDR04.2da, particularly {{{....HIVEKEEPER **** GA_%spell-res%....}}}
Same error(can't find resource for %spell-res%) in SCS Genai install. Was able to fix this by deleting the lines from the 2da(I dont use hivekeeper )
That's odd. %spell-res% is a variable, but it looks like a typo (should probably be %spell_res%)
I'll check it out when I can.
Btw, this mod is definitely going to get a complete overhaul in light of this:
Comments
I am still not convinced about camouflage - I think that it still would become redundant much too soon, becoming one of those spells that you use only for a couple of levels and only if you have access to nothing else of use at that level. Yes, even 100% in stealth isn't fully dependable and theoretically camouflage would help, but would you waste one of your very limited slots on it? I would probably just risk it, especially that rangers can actually survive accidental reveal.
Now C(of X)/R has a set of spells Sm. Does Sm=Sc+Sr (has all spells of Sc and Sr and nothing more)?
Because if we give a ranger major access to sphere Q for them to have access to 4th level, than what kind of access to Q should C(of X)/R have? If also major, than it's the old OP case. If minor, they won't have the 4th level spells from Q- unless they get it also from the C(of X) side.
If not, it shouldn't be probably called C/R, but treated as a completely separate quasi-single class - or am I mistaken?
Treating multiclasses individually is probably a good thing, I'd specially love F/M get a similar treatment, as now they are a munchkin mechanic completely unrepresentative of how professions/specialisations work IRL. If you are going to make more changes, I'd suggest forgoing the whole C/R name - are they like st. Francis and preach to squirrels, or what? That was the only reason I was nagging you for so long. I shut up now
EDIT: Perhaps this may help more... I just tried Option 2 and also got an error, but this time the error reads ERROR: Failure("Invalid spell number: -1"). Looks like this occurs around line 6558 on the new log I'm attaching ("Log for Option 2.txt").
Appended text to [d5sphspl.2da]
[./override/spell.ids] loaded, 25826 bytes
FAILURE:
Invalid spell number: -1
Stopping installation because of error.
I'm also using the other SoB-related mods as well as aTweaks, but as far as straight equipment mods go SoB's armor overhaul is the only thing I'm using. So it could also be SoB.
I don't know my exact mod order, but I did use DLC Merger v1.2 first, then installed these:
More Styles for Mages v1.55
Free Action Override
BGEE Spawn v0.3
BG1 Unfinished Business v14
Simple XP Cap Remover
The Picture Standard v0.7.1
A mod that allows the game to continue after finishing the game... sorry, don't remember exact mod name
The following I installed after the above, but before trying Faiths and Powers, in the order I'm listing:
Tome and Blood v0.7
Might and Guile v3.8.13
I then tried Faiths and Powers and had the issues I reported. After failing, I skipped it and continued on to successfully install Scales of Balance v5.14.
Any idea what spell the file d5sphspl.2da is for?
"CLERIC_PRAYER_SOMETHING"
Which is giving a false positive for detecting "CLERIC_PRAYER".
You can make the check more robust by altering this section of "Faiths_and_Powers/faiths_and_powers/lib/create_sphere_system.tpa", starting at line 984: ->
I did not install Simple XP Cap Remover.
I attempted install of Faiths and Powers before Might and Guile (but still after Tomes and Blood).
With these changes, Faiths and Powers completed the install with warnings.
I did run into an issue with Tomes and Blood, though. I went through it installing it component by component, ultimately only opting out of the spell selection dialog component (this isn't required for anything else, is it?), but when it went to install the Metamagic component, it ran into an error about not being able to find a resource. Not a big deal to me, though, so I just skipped it.
I think it encountered this error last time, too, but I forgot about it after running into the issue of Faiths and Powers not installing at all.
I just gave this a retry, uninstalling everything and bringing it back to an unmodded state, then reloaded everything (minus Simple XP Cap Remover... and actually, I think I forgot I had uninstalled it last time, too). I switched the install order of Might & Guile with Faiths & Powers so it went Tomes & Blood, F&P, then M&G. It now completes install with warnings instead of failing.
[./override/CLABPA04.2DA] loaded, 4329 bytes
Copying and patching 1 file ...
ERROR locating resource for 'COPY'
Resource [B_FRZ00.spl] not found in KEY file:
[./chitin.key]
Stopping installation because of error.
ERROR: [CLABPA04.2DA] -> [stratagems_external/workspace/CLABPA04.2DA] Patching Failed (COPY) (Failure("resource [B_FRZ00.spl] not found for 'COPY'"))
Stopping installation because of error.
The other(dont have it in log, moved it out because of seeing it in a previous install) is in CLABDR04.2da, particularly {{{....HIVEKEEPER **** GA_%spell-res%....}}}
Same error(can't find resource for %spell-res%) in SCS Genai install. Was able to fix this by deleting the lines from the 2da(I dont use hivekeeper
I'll check it out when I can.
Btw, this mod is definitely going to get a complete overhaul in light of this:
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/71798/whos-up-for-some-new-lua-functions-alpha-v0-1-1/p1
Single classed Clerics of Mask, with thieving abilities are going to be a possibility