We can do a spell selection by dialog similar to TnB sorcerers. It can even do it dynamically by sphere access for different kit.
Spell selection by dialogue is the alternative, and really it is the best option because it preserves the way the class is meant to function. It's just a fair amount of work.
Once I have access to SIege of Dragonspear, I can work on getting the spell selection dialog generator converted over for Shamans. I'll let you know what I find.
@subtledoctor , I am pleased to report that Shamans are susceptible to the same engine hackery that Sorcerers are. SPLSHMKN.2da is your ticket to turning off spell selection during character creation and levelup. I can handle getting it all set up for you if you want. If you let me know what you had in mind for selection (e.g. do they choose spheres of individual spells; how many of each do you want them to have, etc.) I can handle the rest.
It's basically hacking sorcerer all over again. XD
@subtledoctor , I'm already going to be doing stuff because I'm going to convert the Oracles over to Shaman kits. To be honest, now that Oracles don't need to be Sorcerer kits, we could make them part of Faiths and Powers instead of Tome and Blood. They'd probably be more appropriate here anyway. I'm investigating kitting a shaman now.
I've just started and I've already found one actual bug. I guess it's to be expected. (Hint: Your class name and description will be full of lies if you select a Shaman kit via the Siege of Dragonspear character creation process, but won't be if you create the same character via the included Baldur's Gate character creation process.)
Apparently Watchers of Helm only get the one proficiency point in longswords and no more? That's a shame. Well I guess that's what has to be done to keep them from stepping on the role of paladins.
(I very, very eagerly await the Champion class)
E: And I don't really see any point to taking the Acolyte class at this point, at least at low levels an acolyte of Lathander doesn't get any more spells than a Watcher of Helm, and can't handle direct combat like a Watcher can.
I have a question yet again. My last game ended prematurely when my laptop died and now I am interested in trying again. Does public beta going to include any changes to druid/mage? Or I can just download actual version?
Also does this mode work better with EE games, or can I stick with my BGT (gog version)?
@Grammarsalad I know I said I had uploaded a final product and would take my hands off it, but I've been doing a bit more work last night: - restrict shaman spells - add spheres to shaman - add Monitor of Mystra kit - renumber kits and strings - add more HLAs to multiclass tables
I'm going to do this tonight: - add Woodscout of Mielikki kit - add Windrider of Shaundakul kit - add Moon Knight of Selune kit (if I have time) ... - edit sphere access for the archetype kits if the deity system is installed.
On the last one: I kind of think we should just add new kits for this purpose, and place the new kits onto the K_C_H files, rather than repurposing the vanilla kits. It would make a few things easier. We should discuss.
Anyway as soon as those 3-4 things are done I'll upload my "really really final" build.
Okay. I'm not attached to repurposing the vanilla kits. This especially if any npcs already have them. (I was just thinking about that).
But, okay, I'll wait for the next build. I'm still in statistics hell, anyway
... E: And I don't really see any point to taking the Acolyte class at this point, at least at low levels an acolyte of Lathander doesn't get any more spells than a Watcher of Helm, and can't handle direct combat like a Watcher can.
Good point. I will double check the kit, and see how it can be improved at lower levels
What about other acolytes? Do they all seem too weak at low levels?
Edit: actually, they might get extra spells (undocumented)
Nope, the acolyte and the watcher got the same number of spells. It's not just that the watcher is better in melee--duh, of course he's going to be better--but the fact that the acolyte doesn't get much to compensate.
Well, I am really happy about druid/mage - it was really fun before already. Though I guess I still have some reservation about EEs - for example I remember Spell revisions summons scripts did not work properly (most of them could not fight out side of pc/npc field of vision).
Pick your Familiar is the mod that will probably never appear on EEs. Unless FnP allows druid to be chaotic neutral so it is possible get the cat?
Anyway, on more serious note, how will you solve the issue with custom kits and importing chars BGEE1-> BGEE2? I remember you would end up having different kit assigned.
EDIT - dude, you're killing me. I just remembered, there is no acolyte of Lathander kit in the mod. So I'm actually unclear on what you're talking about...
I think you're actually comparing the cleric ("Dawnbringer") of Lathander to the cleric ("Watcher") of Helm...correct? In which case, they both have the same thac0, the same armor restrictions, the same almost everything. Except spheres and special abilities.
What exactly is the different that you're concerned about? I think you have confused us a bit...
@Woolie_Wool I'm always open to discussion of balancing the kits. But I feel like in the long term, the difference between chain and studded leather is almost meaningless. While better innate abilities + focus access to spells can make a huge difference.
I wouldn't mind giving acolytes extra spells, and I think it would be lore-appropriate. But maybe not +1 spell at every level... maybe just +1 1st-level spell.
EDIT - I also can't help but notice that you're comparing apples and oranges, with followers of two very different deities. One very obvious reason to be an acolyte of Lathander instead of a cleric of
Further, it seems that you're comparing two different characters altogether. Do they have the same Wisdom score?
... wait...
OK, the version I had had three base kits: Cleric, Acolyte, and Incarnate. A Lawful Good cleric gives me several select deity options, of which Helm is one. A Neutral Good acolyte just gets Boon of Lathander as an innate power with no deity choice.
EDIT - dude, you're killing me. I just remembered, there is no acolyte of Lathander kit in the mod. So I'm actually unclear on what you're talking about...
I think you're actually comparing the cleric ("Dawnbringer") of Lathander to the cleric ("Watcher") of Helm...correct? In which case, they both have the same thac0, the same armor restrictions, the same almost everything. Except spheres and special abilities.
What exactly is the different that you're concerned about? I think you have confused us a bit...
@Woolie_Wool I'm always open to discussion of balancing the kits. But I feel like in the long term, the difference between chain and studded leather is almost meaningless. While better innate abilities + focus access to spells can make a huge difference.
I wouldn't mind giving acolytes extra spells, and I think it would be lore-appropriate. But maybe not +1 spell at every level... maybe just +1 1st-level spell.
EDIT - I also can't help but notice that you're comparing apples and oranges, with followers of two very different deities. One very obvious reason to be an acolyte of Lathander instead of a cleric of
Further, it seems that you're comparing two different characters altogether. Do they have the same Wisdom score?
... wait...
OK, the version I had had three base kits: Cleric, Acolyte, and Incarnate. A Lawful Good cleric gives me several select deity options, of which Helm is one. A Neutral Good acolyte just gets Boon of Lathander as an innate power with no deity choice.
Aahh, that sounds like a bug. I believe that you get this because acolytes use the old priest of Lathander kit. But that will change shortly
Well, rolling new character is a bit severe. The method I used is bit time consuming, but you can make similar character in bg2ee, use eekeeper to check which kit is the one you need and put in bg2 save folder your bgee1 save. Then simply change kit with eekeeper before importing.
I guess I should give ee versions a fair chance, but is current patch stable? Or should I hold off until they patch up the game? Well, I will wait for new release of FnP anyway, but it seems they overhauled some stuff again with new patch.
Well, i do own bgee1/bgee2 on Steam, just never played them much because mods did not work back then. Is there some difference between which version I have? Also SoD is required?
Now that the Enhanced Editions support spontaneous divine casting without the engine hackery that I had to go through for Oracle components, its time to start adding Incarnates via slightly less egregious engine hackery.
Thematically, Incarnates are mortals selected by the deity to act as their envoy on the Material Plane. Think of the Chosen of Mystra (e.g. Eliminster) or similar.
Mechanically, here is the base description of Incarnates.
Class Features - May not wear armor or metal helmets. - May not equip shields. - May only become Proficient (one slot) in the following weapons: clubs, daggers, flails, maces, shortswords, spears, staffs, warhammers, crossbows, darts and slings. - May not place any slots in any fighting style. - May cast divine spells. - Does not automatically learn all spells of a given level as a Cleric or Druid does. Instead, Incarnates select new spells to learn through the Spell Knowledge special ability. They can cast these spells daily without memorization. (The Spell Knowledge ability offers spells from four to six spheres, depending on the Incarnate's deity.) - Gains immediate access to a number of universal spells, which they can cast normally: Cure Light Wounds, Slow Poison, Remove Curse, Lesser Restoration, Chaotic Commands, and either Holy Word (for good or neutral Incarnates) or Unholy Word (for evil Incarnates). - Gains immediate access to all spells from a single sphere, depending on their deity. - Does not gain bonus spells per day for high Wisdom. - May not multi- or dual-class. - Ineligible for any stronghold. (This affects only the Shadows of Amn campaign in Baldur's Gate II: Enhanced Edition). - Hit Die: d6
For class features, be aware that each Incarnate will also have a couple of passive buffs (please not that these buffs will not offer the canonical immunity to most spells or +10 Constitution) as well as a modal ability accessible via the Shaman Dance button. The ineligibility for strongholds is simply a byproduct of having Shaman as a base class, and will probably be rectified at some future point.
Here is the base Spell Knowledge progression table. Note that this table only shows the spells from the optional spheres, and does not include the automatically provided universal spells nor the spells from the assigned sphere.
Here is are two Incarnate kits currently in development:
Incarnate of Tempus
Advantages - Receives automatic access to spells from the sphere of War. - May choose additional spells from the spheres of Animal, Destruction, Dread, Life and Protection. - May equip metal helmets and armor up to chain mail. - May equip shields. - May become Proficient (one slot) in any weapon. - May become Proficient (one slot) in any fighting style. - May use Battlecry at will.
Battlecry: The Incarnate launches into an inspirational chant. While chanting, the Incarnate cannot move, attack, cast spells, or use other abilities. This ability improves with level as follows: Level 1: Grants allies a +1 bonus to hit and saving throws and immunity to fear. Level 6: Grants allies a +2 bonus to hit and saving throws and immunity to fear. Level 12: Grants allies a +2 bonus to hit, damage and saving throws and immunity to fear. Level 18: Grant allies a +4 bonus to hit, damage, and saving throws and immunity to fear.
- Hit Die: d8
Disadvantages - Must be Chaotic Good, True Neutral, Chaotic Neutral, or Chaotic Evil.
Incarnate of Oghma
Advantages - Receives automatic access to spells from the sphere of Knowledge. - May choose additional spells from the spheres of Dread, Life, Magic, Protection, and Thought. - May learn one extra spell of each level. - May use Meditate at will.
Meditate: The Incarnate adopts a passive stance and reflects internally on their power. While meditating, the Incarnate cannot move, attack, cast spells, or use other abilities. Every round they spend meditating, there is a 35% base chance plus 2% for each level of the Incarnate that they will regain an expended spell slot. The level of the slot regained depends on level: Level 1: Can regain an expended spell slot of 1st level. Level 6: Can regain an expended spell slot of 2nd level or lower. Level 12: Can regain an expended spell slot of 3rd level or lower. Level 18: Can regain an expended spell slot of 4th level or lower.
Disadvantages - Must be Lawful Neutral, True Neutral, or Chaotic Neutral.
Well, i do own bgee1/bgee2 on Steam, just never played them much because mods did not work back then. Is there some difference between which version I have? Also SoD is required?
Right now, if you get the Steam or GOG versions of Siege of Dragonspear, most WeiDU-based mods will be broken on some level. Steam and GOG package the SoD content in a zip file, which conflicts with the data located in BGEE's main directory when you try to use mods. Fixing this issue will probably require work on either the mod-maker's end or on Beamdog's, and as far as I know there is no ETA on when a solution will come.
The Beamdog version of SoD apparently handles everything a different way so a lot of the mods still work, more or less. Some of the mods still need a bit of fixing due to patch 2.0, but it seems like it's much less of a hassle if you have the Beamdog versions of the games.
Also, SoD isn't required to get anything outside of SoD gameplay. Every mod that was created before SoD came out will still work for their intended game. Honestly, for the next few weeks, it may be better to hold off on SoD...give yourself some time for everyone to work out the kinks the new expansion brought about.
Comments
It's basically hacking sorcerer all over again. XD
(I very, very eagerly await the Champion class)
E: And I don't really see any point to taking the Acolyte class at this point, at least at low levels an acolyte of Lathander doesn't get any more spells than a Watcher of Helm, and can't handle direct combat like a Watcher can.
My last game ended prematurely when my laptop died and now I am interested in trying again.
Does public beta going to include any changes to druid/mage? Or I can just download actual version?
Also does this mode work better with EE games, or can I stick with my BGT (gog version)?
But, okay, I'll wait for the next build. I'm still in statistics hell, anyway
What about other acolytes? Do they all seem too weak at low levels?
Edit: actually, they might get extra spells (undocumented)
I'll check when I get a moment
Though I guess I still have some reservation about EEs - for example I remember Spell revisions summons scripts did not work properly (most of them could not fight out side of pc/npc field of vision).
Pick your Familiar is the mod that will probably never appear on EEs.
Unless FnP allows druid to be chaotic neutral so it is possible get the cat?
Anyway, on more serious note, how will you solve the issue with custom kits and importing chars BGEE1-> BGEE2? I remember you would end up having different kit assigned.
The method I used is bit time consuming, but you can make similar character in bg2ee, use eekeeper to check which kit is the one you need and put in bg2 save folder your bgee1 save.
Then simply change kit with eekeeper before importing.
I guess I should give ee versions a fair chance, but is current patch stable?
Or should I hold off until they patch up the game?
Well, I will wait for new release of FnP anyway, but it seems they overhauled some stuff again with new patch.
Is there some difference between which version I have? Also SoD is required?
Thematically, Incarnates are mortals selected by the deity to act as their envoy on the Material Plane. Think of the Chosen of Mystra (e.g. Eliminster) or similar.
Mechanically, here is the base description of Incarnates.
Class Features
- May not wear armor or metal helmets.
- May not equip shields.
- May only become Proficient (one slot) in the following weapons: clubs, daggers, flails, maces, shortswords, spears, staffs, warhammers, crossbows, darts and slings.
- May not place any slots in any fighting style.
- May cast divine spells.
- Does not automatically learn all spells of a given level as a Cleric or Druid does. Instead, Incarnates select new spells to learn through the Spell Knowledge special ability. They can cast these spells daily without memorization. (The Spell Knowledge ability offers spells from four to six spheres, depending on the Incarnate's deity.)
- Gains immediate access to a number of universal spells, which they can cast normally: Cure Light Wounds, Slow Poison, Remove Curse, Lesser Restoration, Chaotic Commands, and either Holy Word (for good or neutral Incarnates) or Unholy Word (for evil Incarnates).
- Gains immediate access to all spells from a single sphere, depending on their deity.
- Does not gain bonus spells per day for high Wisdom.
- May not multi- or dual-class.
- Ineligible for any stronghold. (This affects only the Shadows of Amn campaign in Baldur's Gate II: Enhanced Edition).
- Hit Die: d6
For class features, be aware that each Incarnate will also have a couple of passive buffs (please not that these buffs will not offer the canonical immunity to most spells or +10 Constitution) as well as a modal ability accessible via the Shaman Dance button. The ineligibility for strongholds is simply a byproduct of having Shaman as a base class, and will probably be rectified at some future point.
Here is the base Spell Knowledge progression table. Note that this table only shows the spells from the optional spheres, and does not include the automatically provided universal spells nor the spells from the assigned sphere.
Here is are two Incarnate kits currently in development:
Incarnate of Tempus
Advantages
- Receives automatic access to spells from the sphere of War.
- May choose additional spells from the spheres of Animal, Destruction, Dread, Life and Protection.
- May equip metal helmets and armor up to chain mail.
- May equip shields.
- May become Proficient (one slot) in any weapon.
- May become Proficient (one slot) in any fighting style.
- May use Battlecry at will.
Battlecry: The Incarnate launches into an inspirational chant. While chanting, the Incarnate cannot move, attack, cast spells, or use other abilities. This ability improves with level as follows:
Level 1: Grants allies a +1 bonus to hit and saving throws and immunity to fear.
Level 6: Grants allies a +2 bonus to hit and saving throws and immunity to fear.
Level 12: Grants allies a +2 bonus to hit, damage and saving throws and immunity to fear.
Level 18: Grant allies a +4 bonus to hit, damage, and saving throws and immunity to fear.
- Hit Die: d8
Disadvantages
- Must be Chaotic Good, True Neutral, Chaotic Neutral, or Chaotic Evil.
Incarnate of Oghma
Advantages
- Receives automatic access to spells from the sphere of Knowledge.
- May choose additional spells from the spheres of Dread, Life, Magic, Protection, and Thought.
- May learn one extra spell of each level.
- May use Meditate at will.
Meditate: The Incarnate adopts a passive stance and reflects internally on their power. While meditating, the Incarnate cannot move, attack, cast spells, or use other abilities. Every round they spend meditating, there is a 35% base chance plus 2% for each level of the Incarnate that they will regain an expended spell slot. The level of the slot regained depends on level:
Level 1: Can regain an expended spell slot of 1st level.
Level 6: Can regain an expended spell slot of 2nd level or lower.
Level 12: Can regain an expended spell slot of 3rd level or lower.
Level 18: Can regain an expended spell slot of 4th level or lower.
Disadvantages
- Must be Lawful Neutral, True Neutral, or Chaotic Neutral.
The Beamdog version of SoD apparently handles everything a different way so a lot of the mods still work, more or less. Some of the mods still need a bit of fixing due to patch 2.0, but it seems like it's much less of a hassle if you have the Beamdog versions of the games.
Also, SoD isn't required to get anything outside of SoD gameplay. Every mod that was created before SoD came out will still work for their intended game. Honestly, for the next few weeks, it may be better to hold off on SoD...give yourself some time for everyone to work out the kinks the new expansion brought about.