Come to think of it: any chances we may see a selectable, mayhap beefed up Fallen Ranger kit on character creation? With non-good/evil alignment restriction and have them "reverse-reverse-fall" when doing the Ranger - Protector of the Umar Hills questlines in SoA? After all, might just as well use this portion of the game as appropiate redemption roleplaying factor for evil custom Ranger kits. Even if they end up as gimped fighters, like a certain Dorn. It's all about player options here.
Unfortunate, this is pretty much the only unique evil Ranger kit I can imagine at this point. Given the fact we already have trappers, therianthropes, necros and fiend worshippers planned for other stuff. And I'm not sure if a Slaver or Thrallherd kit who enslaves/charmes humanoids would fit the bill in this case. (As an additional Mage kit on the other hand... hmm~)
I have to revisit the ranger but I remember evil ranger type kits being pretty easy to do in EE. Well, evil paladins are easy, and so my guess is that an evil or neutral ranger would be equally easy.
I'm perfectly fine beefing up the fallen ranger as well, and new options for these kits/classes is definitely the plan for the future.
(It would really help to have a writer for any of this. Putting that out there. I am not much of a writer).
Tried my hands on creating a homebrew non-good Ranger kit: enter the Arsonist!
ARSONIST: Fascinated by the dual nature of fire, the arsonist walks a fine line between destruction and renewal. There are those who use their flaming affinity to torch wildland areas in order to nutrient the soil. Others however are more often petty criminals with burning desires than not.
Advantages:
20% fire resistance.
+4 to attack rolls versus dryads, treants, shambling mounds, myconids and spore colonies.
-4 to encounter reaction against dryads, treants, shambling mounds, myconids and spore colonies.
May use Ignite as an ability once per day every five levels.
IGNITE: The arsonist is able to ignite areas affected by grease, web, entagle, glitterdust, insect plague and creeping doom. All creatures within the burning area will suffer 1-2 points of fire damage per level of the arsonist. As the flames burn down, the aforementioned spells will be dispelled.
Major Sphere Access: Fire, Destruction, Renewal, ? Minor Sphere Access: Earth, Sun, Suffering/Affliction, ?
Deity Access: Kossuth, Talos, Talona, ?
Disadvantages:
-10% to Hide In Shadows.
May not use Charm Animal ability.
Must be of non-lawful, non-good alignment.
Does not receive the Ranger Cabin. (For now at least)
May only put one dot in any missile weapon proficiencies.
I was tempted to give them a Fire Salamander summon ability. Or mayhap an Efreeti HLA. But felt that summoning was more the Beastmaster's domain. As this idea is not based on existing kits or prestige classes, adjustments may be in order.
Am I the only one who's getting this error while trying to install the latest beta on BG2EE?
ERROR: error loading [faiths_and_powers/spheres/hlas/deception/B_ph10.spl] ERROR: Unix.Unix_error(20, "stat", "faiths_and_powers/spheres/hlas/deception/B_ph10.spl") Select an installation method below: -> install ALL of the new kits, AND the deity selection system, AND the sphere system (Faiths and Powers pre-release) was not installed due to errors.
ERROR: Unix.Unix_error(20, "stat", "faiths_and_powers/spheres/hlas/deception/B_ph10.spl") PLEASE email the file SETUP-FAITHS_AND_POWERS.DEBUG to SubtleD and Grammarsalad
Hello there! I played around with the FnP-beta the last couple of days and noticed that some priest spells do not work as intended. Sunscorch only applies the blind-effect but no damage (save or no save does not matter) Hold Person or Animal does not apply the hold effect (mabye a Spell Revision problem) Other spells are applied to the caster despite being cast at other persons: aid, negative plane protection I am only level 3 so I have not tested higher level spells. I played with a BWS-Installation but I also checked on a clean install bgee(v2.0 with SoD) without other mods and at least Sunscorch and Aid don´t work there either(haven´t checked the others).
Hello there! I played around with the FnP-beta the last couple of days and noticed that some priest spells do not work as intended.
Sunscorch only applies the blind-effect but no damage (save or no save does not matter) Hold Person or Animal does not apply the hold effect (mabye a Spell Revision problem) Other spells are applied to the caster despite being cast at other persons: aid, negative plane protection I am only level 3 so I have not tested higher level spells. I played with a BWS-Installation but I also checked on a clean install bgee(v2.0 with SoD) without other mods and at least Sunscorch and Aid don´t work there either(haven´t checked the others).
Did you install the sphere system as part of your install options?
This worries me because it seems like it has to do with the code that changes spells' levels. And that part of the code has always worried me.
But on the other hand, I'm running through IWDEE with the sphere system right now, and I specifically happen to have used Sunscorch and Aid a LOT, and they both seem to work fine. So, for the moment, I'm filing this under "cannot reproduce."
But if anyone else notices any weirdness with spells, please let us know.
I didn´t trust BWS, so I paused the installation and installed it manually with the first install option. I was able to repair the most spells except sunscorch by using near infinity but the problem with sunscorch runs deeper (at least deeper than my shallow knowledge of spells in near infinity) Right now I have tested the Sunscorch Spell using only IWdification. It doesn´t work so it seems that the problem with this spell lies probably not on your end.
@subtledoctor so maybe a macro which will copy those resources from actual IWD:EE game resources? Maybe it would also give benefit of not required translation because you could use string references and set proper localized spell description "during the installation of the mod"?
I don't know anything about evil rangers... I suppose if there are evil paladins than there could be evil rangers. I think @elminster has actually made some non-good paladin kits, so maybe he can give us advice...
NWN2 showcased an evil ranger quite well. Meet Bishop. There's nothing in lore that prevents evil ranger, although it would be uncommon. In 2E, it really would be a non-issue. (In 3.5E, it limited your selection of "gods", which was just fluff.)
Sidenote: Blackguards aren't really intended to be "evil paladins", or least they're not always of the "paladin archetype". (There is some lore for Blackguards being "Fallen Paladins" in a few cases, but it's not always the case that they are ex-paladins.) It's just that it made more sense in the EE series of games to place them as a paladin kit than anything else, because it simplifies things a lot more. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/blackguard.htm
I agree that 2E was clear that rangers are good-aligned, but I always thought that maybe the drow would have an evil, or maybe neutral ranger-variant who protected the nature of the Underdark, and presumably hunted things like illithids and beholders.
Personally, I never liked 1E's/2E's approach of the ranger. Too much sherrif, too little huntsman for my taste. Give me a classical hunter, poacher, forester, or even a lumberjack any day of the week.
If paladins are going into F&P, I see no reason to exclude solely rangers. Given that the only difference between both classes is one having a green thumb, the other a stick in the behind. Needless to say all spellcasting warriors would profit from the sphere system as well.
However, I could certainly see paladins, rangers and monks having their own "overhaul" mod with its own little sphere system. A Mettles & Orders kitpack, so to speak. This would also be the perfect place for AD&D's Fighting-Monk kit from The Complete Priest's Handbook. *wink wink*
On the one hand, @subtledoctor is right about priorities. On the other hand, I agree with @Kamigoroshi about rangers. I really don't think that they should fall at all, honestly. Also, Malar needs his rangers.
I'm going to do something with the ranger in the near future. The first thing I want to do is give the option to get rid of falling, new an evil ranger, and select appropriate deities for non good rangers (the gods of fury, certainly. Talona would work).
But, first, I need to clean up existing kits, add more, do a readme, create the ur-priest--really get the cleric classes and kits finished.
There were no evil rangers or druids in 2e -- even the evil gods of nature (Malar and the gods of fury) didn't have them. In fact, 2e Malarites were expected to hunt down and kill all druids they met ("Malarite clergy seek to slay druids of all faiths whenever possible, for they see the natural Balance that druids promote and maintain as the true foe of all who love to hunt. They believe it interferes with the rightful triumph of the strong over the weak. Consequently, druid organizations, those with druidic connections, and those sponsored even partially by nature deities (including the Harpers) also seek out and destroy Malarite strongholds at any opportunity.") but in 2e druids were all guardians of the balance in nature, and not just worshippers and followers of a nature deity. (Malar does have quite a few [i]fallen[/i] rangers in his service in 2e though.)
As for deities who granted spells to rangers, I browsed the 2e books (Faiths & Avatars, Powers & Pantheons and Demihuman Deities) and in F&A it says: "Most rangers venerate Mielikki as their deity, though some venerate Silvanus, Eldath, Chauntea, Shaundakul, Mystra, or other deities" and both Mielikki and Shaundakul have rangers listed as part of their clergy while Mystra (out of the non-clergy deities) has her own order of rangers. Powers & Pantheons adds Gwaeron Windstrom and Osiris as gods with ranger clergy; and Lurue is also stated to have an order of rangers.
We also know that Eilistraee and the majority of the Seldarine also accept rangers and grant them spells.
Of course, the 3rd edition (and 4th... and 5th...) had its (their) own take on rangers and druids and even thoug Faiths & Avatars states that rangers and druids must select one of the following deities: Aerdrie Faenya, Angharradh, Anhur, Auril, Baervan Wildwanderer, Chauntea, Deep Sashelas, Eldath, Fenmarel Mestarine, Gwaeron Windstrom, Hiatea, Isis, Lurue, Malar, Mielikki, Nobanion, Osiris, Rillifane Rallathil, Sebek, Segojan Earthcaller, Sekolah, Sheela Peryroyl, Shiallia, Silvanus, Solonor Thelandira, Stronmaus, Talona, Talos, Thard Harr, Ubato, Ulutiu, and Umberlee; we also know from deities' descriptions that they also have rangers in their service (like Elistraee, Kelemvor, Mystra, Shaundakul, Uthgar, Akadi, Shevarash, Arvoreen)... and then there are rangers of other gods mentioned in many sourcebooks as well, like, for example Helm, Lolth or Kiaransalee who, in no way, qualify as nature gods (ok, maybe Lolth as a goddess of spiders and she does have some rare druids in 3e [and even in 2e but only some Underdark druids who unknowingly get spells from her but still worship Ilneval] but that's really stretching it).
So it all comes down to a decision what you want to do and how strictly you want to follow the canon fluff... and which edition as well. Just 2e? Some 2e and some 3e? Or disregard that and add some custom ranger kits as well?
In any case, I'd gladly help out with the fluff and ideas for deities and their kits, if needed.
Also, any requests for specific gods for the cleric and their kits in the first release? Right now the list is:
Talos, Helm, Lathander, Tempus, Loviatar, Illmater, and perhaps Shar.
I have all of the 2e forgotten realms deity books now, so everybody is on the table
Personally, I would start with deities which possess temples in the BG saga: Oghma, Waukeen, Tymora, Garl Glittergold, Yondalla and Umberlee come to mind. Then there are Lolth's, Ghaunadaur's and proberly also Eilistraee's places of worship within Ust Nasha as well. On the other hand: expect Ghaunadaur, none of the other Drow pantheon deities accept non-Drow worshipers. Hm...
Lolth, Eilistraee (and perhaps Vhaeraun too) definitely accept non-drow worshipers. Lolth is posing as Moander and deceiving his former followers (although Idk if she can still do that in the 1480s--which has nothing to do with BG anyway--, since Moander seems to have become a ''Great Old One'' entity, no longer gone).
Eilistraee is known to have elven, human, dwarven, halfling and even half-orc followers. She is ''forging her own path, one that welcomes beings of all races who revel in life and the free form expression of all that entails.''
Comments
Unfortunate, this is pretty much the only unique evil Ranger kit I can imagine at this point. Given the fact we already have trappers, therianthropes, necros and fiend worshippers planned for other stuff. And I'm not sure if a Slaver or Thrallherd kit who enslaves/charmes humanoids would fit the bill in this case. (As an additional Mage kit on the other hand... hmm~)
I'm perfectly fine beefing up the fallen ranger as well, and new options for these kits/classes is definitely the plan for the future.
(It would really help to have a writer for any of this. Putting that out there. I am not much of a writer).
Advantages:
IGNITE: The arsonist is able to ignite areas affected by grease, web, entagle, glitterdust, insect plague and creeping doom. All creatures within the burning area will suffer 1-2 points of fire damage per level of the arsonist. As the flames burn down, the aforementioned spells will be dispelled.
Major Sphere Access: Fire, Destruction, Renewal, ?
Minor Sphere Access: Earth, Sun, Suffering/Affliction, ?
Deity Access: Kossuth, Talos, Talona, ?
Disadvantages:
I was tempted to give them a Fire Salamander summon ability. Or mayhap an Efreeti HLA. But felt that summoning was more the Beastmaster's domain. As this idea is not based on existing kits or prestige classes, adjustments may be in order.
I wonder if i could get my filthy hands on the beta for a bgee run , i want to use IR SR Might and guile with
SOB on top .
A thousand thanks with sugar on top in advance .
That ignition ability is interesting. I think that they were talking about having that sort of effect for all fire spells @spell revisions.
@orvarth and @rainlit
Do you have access?
ERROR: error loading [faiths_and_powers/spheres/hlas/deception/B_ph10.spl]
ERROR: Unix.Unix_error(20, "stat", "faiths_and_powers/spheres/hlas/deception/B_ph10.spl")
Select an installation method below: -> install ALL of the new kits, AND the deity selection system, AND the sphere system (Faiths and Powers pre-release) was not installed due to errors.
on bgee version gog , install need the modemerge , 25stweap.2da from bg2ee is need too and the mod iwdification-Beta3 .
i make several different install on bgee version 2.0 : with SR IR might and guile SOB , work fine except for
deity selection system wich give sometimes strange results :
can't choose tempus for neutral cleric or fighter/cleric.
novalid respond message for some combinaison , like neutral acolyte .
i wonder if my install order is fine ? MAG FAP (perhaps choose another acronym) IWD IR SR SOB .
*fighter/cleric ans cleric/thief can choose sylvanus but single class cleric can't .(tried with neutral and c/n ).
observations made with the option install 1 only .
ok , if you install FAP twice , first with option 1 (all in one) and a second time with option 2 ,then you have
access to all kits and deity , but at this time there is no restrictions for kit :
you can choose priest of tyr for a fighter/cleric chaotic/evil .
some disruptions if install with tome and blood , i have a kensai(katana) kit in the sorcerer selection (done that only with FAP) .
i reinstall all in correct order with only 1 option , my previous messy install seems to be the problem .
work fine now .
I played around with the FnP-beta the last couple of days and noticed that some priest spells do not work as intended.
Sunscorch only applies the blind-effect but no damage (save or no save does not matter)
Hold Person or Animal does not apply the hold effect (mabye a Spell Revision problem)
Other spells are applied to the caster despite being cast at other persons: aid, negative plane protection
I am only level 3 so I have not tested higher level spells.
I played with a BWS-Installation but I also checked on a clean install bgee(v2.0 with SoD) without other mods and at least Sunscorch and Aid don´t work there either(haven´t checked the others).
I was able to repair the most spells except sunscorch by using near infinity but the problem with sunscorch runs deeper (at least deeper than my shallow knowledge of spells in near infinity)
Right now I have tested the Sunscorch Spell using only IWdification. It doesn´t work so it seems that the problem with this spell lies probably not on your end.
Sidenote: Blackguards aren't really intended to be "evil paladins", or least they're not always of the "paladin archetype". (There is some lore for Blackguards being "Fallen Paladins" in a few cases, but it's not always the case that they are ex-paladins.) It's just that it made more sense in the EE series of games to place them as a paladin kit than anything else, because it simplifies things a lot more. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/blackguard.htm
If paladins are going into F&P, I see no reason to exclude solely rangers. Given that the only difference between both classes is one having a green thumb, the other a stick in the behind. Needless to say all spellcasting warriors would profit from the sphere system as well.
However, I could certainly see paladins, rangers and monks having their own "overhaul" mod with its own little sphere system. A Mettles & Orders kitpack, so to speak. This would also be the perfect place for AD&D's Fighting-Monk kit from The Complete Priest's Handbook. *wink wink*
I'm going to do something with the ranger in the near future. The first thing I want to do is give the option to get rid of falling, new an evil ranger, and select appropriate deities for non good rangers (the gods of fury, certainly. Talona would work).
But, first, I need to clean up existing kits, add more, do a readme, create the ur-priest--really get the cleric classes and kits finished.
As for deities who granted spells to rangers, I browsed the 2e books (Faiths & Avatars, Powers & Pantheons and Demihuman Deities) and in F&A it says: "Most rangers venerate Mielikki as their deity, though some venerate Silvanus, Eldath, Chauntea, Shaundakul, Mystra, or other deities" and both Mielikki and Shaundakul have rangers listed as part of their clergy while Mystra (out of the non-clergy deities) has her own order of rangers. Powers & Pantheons adds Gwaeron Windstrom and Osiris as gods with ranger clergy; and Lurue is also stated to have an order of rangers.
We also know that Eilistraee and the majority of the Seldarine also accept rangers and grant them spells.
Of course, the 3rd edition (and 4th... and 5th...) had its (their) own take on rangers and druids and even thoug Faiths & Avatars states that rangers and druids must select one of the following deities: Aerdrie Faenya, Angharradh, Anhur, Auril, Baervan Wildwanderer, Chauntea, Deep Sashelas, Eldath, Fenmarel Mestarine, Gwaeron Windstrom, Hiatea, Isis, Lurue, Malar, Mielikki, Nobanion, Osiris, Rillifane Rallathil, Sebek, Segojan Earthcaller, Sekolah, Sheela Peryroyl, Shiallia, Silvanus, Solonor Thelandira, Stronmaus, Talona, Talos, Thard Harr, Ubato, Ulutiu, and Umberlee; we also know from deities' descriptions that they also have rangers in their service (like Elistraee, Kelemvor, Mystra, Shaundakul, Uthgar, Akadi, Shevarash, Arvoreen)... and then there are rangers of other gods mentioned in many sourcebooks as well, like, for example Helm, Lolth or Kiaransalee who, in no way, qualify as nature gods (ok, maybe Lolth as a goddess of spiders and she does have some rare druids in 3e [and even in 2e but only some Underdark druids who unknowingly get spells from her but still worship Ilneval] but that's really stretching it).
So it all comes down to a decision what you want to do and how strictly you want to follow the canon fluff... and which edition as well. Just 2e? Some 2e and some 3e? Or disregard that and add some custom ranger kits as well?
In any case, I'd gladly help out with the fluff and ideas for deities and their kits, if needed.
Eilistraee is known to have elven, human, dwarven, halfling and even half-orc followers. She is ''forging her own path, one that welcomes beings of all races who revel in life and the free form expression of all that entails.''