Also, any requests for specific gods for the cleric and their kits in the first release? Right now the list is:
Talos, Helm, Lathander, Tempus, Loviatar, Illmater, and perhaps Shar.
I have all of the 2e forgotten realms deity books now, so everybody is on the table
Personally, I would start with deities which possess temples in the BG saga: Oghma, Waukeen, Tymora, Garl Glittergold, Yondalla and Umberlee come to mind. Then there are Lolth's, Ghaunadaur's and proberly also Eilistraee's places of worship within Ust Nasha as well. On the other hand: expect Ghaunadaur, none of the other Drow pantheon deities accept non-Drow worshipers. Hm...
Lolth, Eilistraee (and perhaps Vhaeraun too) definitely accept non-drow worshipers. Lolth is posing as Moander and deceiving his former followers (although Idk if she can still do that in the 1480s--which has nothing to do with BG anyway--, since Moander seems to have become a ''Great Old One'' entity, no longer gone).
Eilistraee is known to have elven, human, dwarven, halfling and even half-orc followers. She is ''forging her own path, one that welcomes beings of all races who revel in life and the free form expression of all that entails.''
As @Irennan said, Lolth and ilistraee do accept non-drow worshippers. Lolth poses as Moander and also, grants spells to some druids still venerating Ibrandul (who was killed in the Time of Troubles). She also has many followers among driders (which might count as drow), aranea, chitines (including choldrithes), draegloths (again, kind of count as drow), some deep dragons and other races of the Underdark (these are just the races specified in the racial entry requirements of Arachne PrC from 3e). And Eilistraee accepts beings of all races -- and she even allows them to become her specialty priests, even though drow, half-drow, elves, and half-elves are most common, she has followers among all intelligent races.
EDIT. As for Vhaeraun... in 2e he only accepted drow, but in 3e it seems he also accepts half-drow, but since he encourages his worshippers to make contact, befriend and convert elves and half-elves of non-drow origin, I imagine he might have some rare elven or half-elven priests as well.
EDIT 2. Oh and I mention only clergy, not worshippers. Technically, any one can be a worshipper as they aren't getting any spells from the god in question anyway.
As for 'what edition are you following' our standing philosophy is basically, 'what works, and what is fun'. We draw very heavily on 2e, but I personally much prefer the 3e take on rangers.
I have two lines of thought on the matter, and I might implement both and allow the end user to choose which they prefer.. Or rather, three lines of thought, but the third is basically, 'keep them as they are'.
1) stick closely to 2e. Allow deity choice as described in the first part of @eryrwyn describes in the first part of their post (Mielikki, and a few others). But, the player will also have the option to play a 'fallen' (dark?) ranger, which can be selected as a normal kit, or by falling the normal way. They would then get to choose some miscreant god as their (possibly new) patron. They will also see a shift in their alignment (if they fell in the normal way--they will have some choice in the matter, but they certainly won't be able to be good).
On the other hand, they can choose to not take on a new patron (or not select one as a newly created kit) and be a 'gimped fighter'. They will have a chance to redeem themselves, however.*
2) a more 3e take on rangers. No falling, and the character is free to create a ranger of whatever alignment they like. They select a patron as in the second part of erywrn's post above.
*it has always been my plan to implement additional role playing choices based on deity/kit choice. This is a very long term goal, however. It will come much sooner if a cab get some volunteers to do some writing (much more difficult for me compared to the technical aspects of modding).
@erywyn and others. If you are serious about helping with writing, please pm me, and we'll talk. This could include dialog or kit write ups.
Added rp content would be implemented *after* everything else is in order, though I can take writing submissions at any time.
The upshot of this is, once the race-specific limitations are coded in, it will be easy to make other kit mods compatible with F&P. @IchigoRXC could make a gnomish kitpack; @Abdel_Adrian could make one for elvish deities; @FailGeek could make his compatible... etc. All of these could automatically be added to the deity selection process (including specifying availability for multiclass clerics - you could even make kits that are *only* for multiclass use) as well as the sphere system.
If you have access to the beta, the current version is pretty stable so this is a good time to download it again and play around with it. If you're interested in making kits for the mod, sit tight and I'll let everyone know as soon as I have the race thing figured out.
I think I would be interested in contributing kits to F&P, I was actually planning on making elven & half-elven priests of the Seldarine anyway. So far I've only made a loose interpretation of the Herbalist from the Complete Book of Elves, and my own version of a Priestess of Lolth, but neither use the sphere system or any other changes used by F&P. Definitely keep me updated on this and when the details are figured out, let me know what rules I'd have to work within.
Too bad the IE is so limited in some ways, would have been a perfect deity for something like a multiclass arcane and divine spontanous spellcaster since shamans are a real thing now.
Well, nonetheless a great BG run in the way with FnP ^^
Mine is based on the Monitor kit in "Warriors & Priests of the Realms." Basically someone who polices the Weave. Main kit abilities are a -1 bonus to casting speed, and increasing caster level bonuses so their spells are are effective as a single-class caster with the same XP.
Maybe not super-iconic then, but a trait of Mystra's Chosen at least, like Elminster. It seemed like an appropriate ability for someone who would be reaching epic levels in both mage and cleric. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Fire_(Forgotten_Realms)
I like your rendition though, seems a bit more powerful than mine but not overpowered. Looks like a fun kit.
OK. I'm a little confused here. Got the F&P beta and installed it as part of a BGT install (using GOG BG/BG2). Now, before I go any further, I'm assuming that *I* screwed something up and am having conflicts. But, it's in trying to pinpoint those conflicts that I got really confused.
So, everything seems to be fine. (I didn't create a priest-type character.) I start a new game and get to the Friendly Arm Inn and pick up Jaheira. Looking at her spellbook, it seems she has the same old spells as before. Given the new sphere system all all that, I figure this shouldn't be the case. So, I try to create a new lvl 1 Fighter/Druid to see what spells might be assigned to that character. For whatever reason, I'm not allowed to select a Fighter/Druid. It's grayed out and won't let me select it.
So, I figure I'll just create a normal Druid and see what kinds of spells they start off with. Sure enough, there's a ton of options available when I select Druid with all kinds of different spells in the spellbook of the character. However, I also notice that when browsing the kit options, there's missing information in the description window. For instance, the abilities of the Mountain Druid are listed as follows:
Abilities: Focus access to the spheres of: Major access to the spheres of: %_sphere%, %_sphere%, %_sphere%, %_sphere%, %_sphere%, %_sphere%, Minor access to the spheres of: Knowledge, Thought, Affliction, Plant, Water, Shadow
All of the options look almost identical to the above with some actually listing something on the "Focus" line and then listing different Minor access spheres. However, each option has the same %_sphere% thing for the Major access spheres. Is this because it's still in development/beta or is it because I've created some conflicts?
For now, I will assume that I've borked something up. Since trouble-shooting a BGT installation is a huge time endeavor, I usually install just the mods I'm looking at onto BGEE (because most won't install on BG) and see what's what that way.
So, I installed IWDification and F&P onto GOG BGEE v2.1.6.3.2. While everything seems to install correctly, the game doesn't recognize that anything has actually changed due to F&P. It *does* allow me to select a Fighter/Druid which is nice. This character has the same old spells from vanilla as far as I can tell. However, there are NO kit options at all *except* for the original 3 kits for a normal Druid. (BTW, these 3 kits did NOT appear in the BGT install as options. Is that the way it's supposed to be?)
Here's my BGEE WEIDU log:
// Log of Currently Installed WeiDU Mods // The top of the file is the 'oldest' mod // ~TP2_File~ #language_number #component_number // [Subcomponent Name -> ] Component Name [ : Version] ~IWDIFICATION/SETUP-IWDIFICATION.TP2~ #0 #10 // Icewind Dale Casting Graphics (Andyr): Beta 2 ~IWDIFICATION/SETUP-IWDIFICATION.TP2~ #0 #20 // Commoners Use Drab Colors: Beta 2 ~IWDIFICATION/SETUP-IWDIFICATION.TP2~ #0 #30 // IWD Arcane Spell Pack: Beta 2 ~IWDIFICATION/SETUP-IWDIFICATION.TP2~ #0 #40 // IWD Divine Spell Pack: Beta 2 ~IWDIFICATION/SETUP-IWDIFICATION.TP2~ #0 #50 // IWD Bard Song: Beta 2 ~IWDIFICATION/SETUP-IWDIFICATION.TP2~ #0 #60 // Two Handed Axe Item Pack: Beta 2 ~FAITHS_AND_POWERS/FAITHS_AND_POWERS.TP2~ #0 #101 // Select an installation method below: -> install ALL of the new kits, AND the deity selection system, AND the sphere system: 0.31
If I run the F&P setup again, it states that all options are already installed, but yet nothing shows up in game as far as I can tell.
So, can somebody tell me what the heck I'm doing wrong? Like I said, I'm assuming I've created a conflict in my BGT install that causing those weird things, but I'm totally lost on why it doesn't appear to be working in my clean BGEE install.
Thanks for any comments.
Edit: FWIW, I've tried to do further testing by seeing how the mod works on IWD:EE. Can't get it to install at all and haven't yet figured out why.
No, there's definitely bugs there. Let's go through the list:
- Can you post your BGT Weidu.log so I can look at possible conflicts?
It's attached to this post.
BTW, you'll see Ph0rd's Druid Enhancements in there which I had forgotten about and so neglected to remove. Perhaps that is contributing to the problem. Also, I had decided with this install to try DSotSC but in hind sight, that probably wasn't the best choice.
- Not being able to select fighter/druid is intentional. You are meant to play a fighter/cleric and choose "druid of silvanus" as your kit. Fighter/druids will eventually be fighter/mystics with a bunch of possible variants. Probably.
Ah ... now that you mention that I do recall reading it. Sorry I forgot about it. Went back and checked that out in my BGT installation. Created a NG Fighter/Cleric and the only option it gave me was Lathander. Creating a TN one gave me the option of Helm, but none other. Is Silvanus implemented yet? I'll go through and try all the various alignments. Selecting Helm worked fine. When I tried to select Lathander, the game crashed on me with the following error:
An Assertion failed in CGameEffect.cpp at line number 1536. ASSERTION FAILED! Return address: 0x4FF726 File: CGameEffect.cpp Line: 1536 Expression: FALSE Message: (null)
- It should install on IWDEE. Again, I tried and succeeded but I will try again.
Sorry ... ignore that. I thought I had restored properly from a backup, but a complete re-install of the game fixed the problem with it not installing. It's also working properly in BG:EE with my "new" understanding of how it's supposed to work.
BTW, the Dawnbringer of Lathander did NOT crash in IWD:EE/BG:EE ... so it's probably a conflict with my BGT install. In IWD, the "Focus Sphere" was empty/blank, but the Major and Minor spheres were listed correctly.
Thanks for the help. The changing thing is pretty cool. Just wondering, it gives all the relevant kit stats when you make the change but I've only seen it in the dialog window. Will we be able to see that information later in the game to jog our memory on what our character is? It doesn't appear in the Kit Description window like it used to.
@wsmithjr , no offensive intended with this question, but why didn't you just attach your WeiDU.log file to a single post instead of copy/pasting the contents of the log in three posts? It would have saved you some trouble, and I think it would be the preferable way for subtledoctor to check out your mod order. You can just click on the "Attach image/file" button and submit the actual WeiDU.log file.
@subtledoctor I'll check out the new version. And it's understandable if this is EE-only if it gives so many more mod-friendly options. Thanks.
EDIT: Just removed the old version and installed the new version. I created a Fighter/Cleric and was able to change to a Druid of Silvanus. It appeared to work properly except I got an "Invalid 34863: Charname" line at the end of the class description in the message window. Seems to be fine otherwise. No other mods involved except IWDification and F&P.
In the new version, Jaheira shows up as a Fighter/Mystic but with zero spells available. Leveling her up to lvl 2 grants her the Cure Light Wounds spell but nothing else. She doesn't get any type of "deity selection" thing or anything to correct the situation.
I am still unable to install FnP for BG2EE, even with the new beta:
Trying to install everything:
ERROR: error loading [faiths_and_powers/spheres/hlas/deception/B_ph10.spl] Stopping installation because of error. Stopping installation because of error. Stopping installation because of error. Stopping installation because of error. Stopping installation because of error.
Trying to install kits indvidually, doesn't even get to giving me options for the different kits before:
ERROR: error loading [faiths_and_powers/kits/d5_clerics.d5] Stopping installation because of error.
Just noticed something that is probably on your to-do list for the change from Druids to Mystics. Shields are listed as not being usable by Druids so should that now be Mystics?
'Course, complicating that is I'm also using Scales of Balance which changes things up. So, at the moment, I'm not sure whether druids/mystics are intended to be able to use shields or not.
I haven't played BG2 much and have never used Cernd. The Beast Mystic seems most like his vanilla class. How about one of the Mystic kits for Faldorn? Maybe a Shadow Mystic as she is of the Shadow Druids right?
Those would "free up" Forest Druid for Jaheira. Not really sure I still grasp the difference between the Druids and Mystics. Mystics seems to have more spell power, but then some of them also have greater weapon skills than the druids. As Jaheira is a Fighter/Druid, it would make sense to give her a class that's got more weapon skills and abilities.
I think either way, you just need something that has some logic and each individual can use NPC_EE to change to whatever kits they prefer.
The new build installed correctly, but what happened to Battleguard of Tempus? It's no longer available, even though it was in earlier builds I had used in BG1. I have Branwen in my party so Tempus is...kind of important.
I don't know if this was supposed to be fixed in the latest beta update, but I am getting the "%_sphere%" description text bug during character creation just like @wsmithjr mentioned earlier on this page. It appears in every Druid and Mystic class. Also, the "Focus access to the spheres of:" line is completely blank.
An example picture is taken below:
It seems like the "%_sphere%" text and blank "Focus access..." line bug only appears when describing the Druids and Mystics, and not other classes and kits that benefit from the FnP mod. For example, it doesn't appear on the Archer class description...
The Paladin class and kits aren't affected either.
The descriptions were correctly written in previous versions of the beta. I'll also note that I'm testing this on IWDEE, and I did not receive any installation errors when installing the mod. I've included my WeiDU.log file in a zip if you need it.
EDIT: The Nature, Beast, Earth, and Air Mystic kits actually have a "Focus access to the spheres of:" entry; the Water Mystic kit and the Druid kits do not.
And as long as I'm reporting on description text typos, the Acolyte description for the Priest class is missing a couple of blank lines in it's description, one above "CLASS FEATURES" and one below...
This is an infinitesimal-sized thing to report, but since I noticed it, I figure it'd report it. Chalk it up to me being a stickler for detail.
Encountered another deity-related bug: I made a neutral good dwarf acolyte and when I try to choose a deity I get a "NO VALID REPLIES OR LINKS" message. I posted the bug a few pages back (https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/752633/#Comment_752633); this time I'm just getting it in another class. I'm still actually getting the "NO VALID REPLIES OR LINKS" message for cleric/mages, as well.
Comments
EDIT. As for Vhaeraun... in 2e he only accepted drow, but in 3e it seems he also accepts half-drow, but since he encourages his worshippers to make contact, befriend and convert elves and half-elves of non-drow origin, I imagine he might have some rare elven or half-elven priests as well.
EDIT 2. Oh and I mention only clergy, not worshippers. Technically, any one can be a worshipper as they aren't getting any spells from the god in question anyway.
As for 'what edition are you following' our standing philosophy is basically, 'what works, and what is fun'. We draw very heavily on 2e, but I personally much prefer the 3e take on rangers.
I have two lines of thought on the matter, and I might implement both and allow the end user to choose which they prefer.. Or rather, three lines of thought, but the third is basically, 'keep them as they are'.
1) stick closely to 2e. Allow deity choice as described in the first part of @eryrwyn describes in the first part of their post (Mielikki, and a few others). But, the player will also have the option to play a 'fallen' (dark?) ranger, which can be selected as a normal kit, or by falling the normal way. They would then get to choose some miscreant god as their (possibly new) patron. They will also see a shift in their alignment (if they fell in the normal way--they will have some choice in the matter, but they certainly won't be able to be good).
On the other hand, they can choose to not take on a new patron (or not select one as a newly created kit) and be a 'gimped fighter'. They will have a chance to redeem themselves, however.*
2) a more 3e take on rangers. No falling, and the character is free to create a ranger of whatever alignment they like. They select a patron as in the second part of erywrn's post above.
*it has always been my plan to implement additional role playing choices based on deity/kit choice. This is a very long term goal, however. It will come much sooner if a cab get some volunteers to do some writing (much more difficult for me compared to the technical aspects of modding).
@erywyn and others. If you are serious about helping with writing, please pm me, and we'll talk. This could include dialog or kit write ups.
Added rp content would be implemented *after* everything else is in order, though I can take writing submissions at any time.
Definitely keep me updated on this and when the details are figured out, let me know what rules I'd have to work within.
Too bad the IE is so limited in some ways, would have been a perfect deity for something like a multiclass arcane and divine spontanous spellcaster since shamans are a real thing now.
Well, nonetheless a great BG run in the way with FnP ^^
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Fire_(Forgotten_Realms)
I like your rendition though, seems a bit more powerful than mine but not overpowered. Looks like a fun kit.
So, everything seems to be fine. (I didn't create a priest-type character.) I start a new game and get to the Friendly Arm Inn and pick up Jaheira. Looking at her spellbook, it seems she has the same old spells as before. Given the new sphere system all all that, I figure this shouldn't be the case. So, I try to create a new lvl 1 Fighter/Druid to see what spells might be assigned to that character. For whatever reason, I'm not allowed to select a Fighter/Druid. It's grayed out and won't let me select it.
So, I figure I'll just create a normal Druid and see what kinds of spells they start off with. Sure enough, there's a ton of options available when I select Druid with all kinds of different spells in the spellbook of the character. However, I also notice that when browsing the kit options, there's missing information in the description window. For instance, the abilities of the Mountain Druid are listed as follows:
Abilities:
Focus access to the spheres of:
Major access to the spheres of: %_sphere%, %_sphere%, %_sphere%, %_sphere%, %_sphere%, %_sphere%,
Minor access to the spheres of: Knowledge, Thought, Affliction, Plant, Water, Shadow
All of the options look almost identical to the above with some actually listing something on the "Focus" line and then listing different Minor access spheres. However, each option has the same %_sphere% thing for the Major access spheres. Is this because it's still in development/beta or is it because I've created some conflicts?
For now, I will assume that I've borked something up. Since trouble-shooting a BGT installation is a huge time endeavor, I usually install just the mods I'm looking at onto BGEE (because most won't install on BG) and see what's what that way.
So, I installed IWDification and F&P onto GOG BGEE v2.1.6.3.2. While everything seems to install correctly, the game doesn't recognize that anything has actually changed due to F&P. It *does* allow me to select a Fighter/Druid which is nice. This character has the same old spells from vanilla as far as I can tell. However, there are NO kit options at all *except* for the original 3 kits for a normal Druid. (BTW, these 3 kits did NOT appear in the BGT install as options. Is that the way it's supposed to be?)
Here's my BGEE WEIDU log:
// The top of the file is the 'oldest' mod
// ~TP2_File~ #language_number #component_number // [Subcomponent Name -> ] Component Name [ : Version]
~IWDIFICATION/SETUP-IWDIFICATION.TP2~ #0 #10 // Icewind Dale Casting Graphics (Andyr): Beta 2
~IWDIFICATION/SETUP-IWDIFICATION.TP2~ #0 #20 // Commoners Use Drab Colors: Beta 2
~IWDIFICATION/SETUP-IWDIFICATION.TP2~ #0 #30 // IWD Arcane Spell Pack: Beta 2
~IWDIFICATION/SETUP-IWDIFICATION.TP2~ #0 #40 // IWD Divine Spell Pack: Beta 2
~IWDIFICATION/SETUP-IWDIFICATION.TP2~ #0 #50 // IWD Bard Song: Beta 2
~IWDIFICATION/SETUP-IWDIFICATION.TP2~ #0 #60 // Two Handed Axe Item Pack: Beta 2
~FAITHS_AND_POWERS/FAITHS_AND_POWERS.TP2~ #0 #101 // Select an installation method below: -> install ALL of the new kits, AND the deity selection system, AND the sphere system: 0.31
If I run the F&P setup again, it states that all options are already installed, but yet nothing shows up in game as far as I can tell.
So, can somebody tell me what the heck I'm doing wrong? Like I said, I'm assuming I've created a conflict in my BGT install that causing those weird things, but I'm totally lost on why it doesn't appear to be working in my clean BGEE install.
Thanks for any comments.
Edit: FWIW, I've tried to do further testing by seeing how the mod works on IWD:EE. Can't get it to install at all and haven't yet figured out why.
BTW, you'll see Ph0rd's Druid Enhancements in there which I had forgotten about and so neglected to remove. Perhaps that is contributing to the problem. Also, I had decided with this install to try DSotSC but in hind sight, that probably wasn't the best choice.
- Not being able to select fighter/druid is intentional. You are meant to play a fighter/cleric and choose "druid of silvanus" as your kit. Fighter/druids will eventually be fighter/mystics with a bunch of possible variants. Probably.
Ah ... now that you mention that I do recall reading it. Sorry I forgot about it. Went back and checked that out in my BGT installation. Created a NG Fighter/Cleric and the only option it gave me was Lathander. Creating a TN one gave me the option of Helm, but none other. Is Silvanus implemented yet? I'll go through and try all the various alignments. Selecting Helm worked fine. When I tried to select Lathander, the game crashed on me with the following error:
An Assertion failed in CGameEffect.cpp at line number 1536.
ASSERTION FAILED! Return address: 0x4FF726 File: CGameEffect.cpp Line: 1536 Expression: FALSE Message: (null) Sorry ... ignore that. I thought I had restored properly from a backup, but a complete re-install of the game fixed the problem with it not installing. It's also working properly in BG:EE with my "new" understanding of how it's supposed to work.
BTW, the Dawnbringer of Lathander did NOT crash in IWD:EE/BG:EE ... so it's probably a conflict with my BGT install. In IWD, the "Focus Sphere" was empty/blank, but the Major and Minor spheres were listed correctly.
Thanks for the help. The changing thing is pretty cool. Just wondering, it gives all the relevant kit stats when you make the change but I've only seen it in the dialog window. Will we be able to see that information later in the game to jog our memory on what our character is? It doesn't appear in the Kit Description window like it used to.
EDIT: Just removed the old version and installed the new version. I created a Fighter/Cleric and was able to change to a Druid of Silvanus. It appeared to work properly except I got an "Invalid 34863: Charname" line at the end of the class description in the message window. Seems to be fine otherwise. No other mods involved except IWDification and F&P.
In the new version, Jaheira shows up as a Fighter/Mystic but with zero spells available. Leveling her up to lvl 2 grants her the Cure Light Wounds spell but nothing else. She doesn't get any type of "deity selection" thing or anything to correct the situation.
Trying to install everything: Trying to install kits indvidually, doesn't even get to giving me options for the different kits before:
'Course, complicating that is I'm also using Scales of Balance which changes things up. So, at the moment, I'm not sure whether druids/mystics are intended to be able to use shields or not.
@Woolie_Wool I get the same problem.
Those would "free up" Forest Druid for Jaheira. Not really sure I still grasp the difference between the Druids and Mystics. Mystics seems to have more spell power, but then some of them also have greater weapon skills than the druids. As Jaheira is a Fighter/Druid, it would make sense to give her a class that's got more weapon skills and abilities.
I think either way, you just need something that has some logic and each individual can use NPC_EE to change to whatever kits they prefer.
An example picture is taken below:
It seems like the "%_sphere%" text and blank "Focus access..." line bug only appears when describing the Druids and Mystics, and not other classes and kits that benefit from the FnP mod. For example, it doesn't appear on the Archer class description...
The Paladin class and kits aren't affected either.
The descriptions were correctly written in previous versions of the beta. I'll also note that I'm testing this on IWDEE, and I did not receive any installation errors when installing the mod. I've included my WeiDU.log file in a zip if you need it.
EDIT: The Nature, Beast, Earth, and Air Mystic kits actually have a "Focus access to the spheres of:" entry; the Water Mystic kit and the Druid kits do not.
And as long as I'm reporting on description text typos, the Acolyte description for the Priest class is missing a couple of blank lines in it's description, one above "CLASS FEATURES" and one below...
This is an infinitesimal-sized thing to report, but since I noticed it, I figure it'd report it. Chalk it up to me being a stickler for detail.