Okay, it turns out that static charge is not an appropriate spell for the Zealot of Talos frenzy as the first shock will target the character and the second one will never go off...So, I created a new ability, tentatively called "Eye of the Storm" which is like the fireshield spells but is electric instead. I love the animation for this spell; it looks like the character is crackling with electrical energy. That animation took me forever, but it was worth it. I will probably make that into a priest spell as well.
Also, finished the zealot of Kossuth.
Edit; okay, so far that's 7 champion kits and 3 zealot kits. I'll probably make about 2 more champions, and about 5ish more zealots. Then, I'll do the Ur priest and give the whole thing over to @subtledoctor
Hey, just wondering, is this mod available for download and test/play? I couldn't find a link for that in first page. If it's not available yet but you need testers, I'll be happy to volunteer.
I asked pretty much the same question a few weeks ago, and IIRC the answer to that question is "Soon but not sure exactly when!" and also I THINK there's a beta version available upon request.
Somebody please jump in here if I'm wrong.
Grammarsalad said: But i want the tweak stuff to be settled first. I'm hesitant to give a specific date because i don't want to disappoint, but i feel like we could have that part--a first draft anyway-- done soon.
You can both have a beta copy to try out if you like right now. We're pretty close to ' official' release atm. I'm about 5 kits away from handing it over to subtle...
Okay, got zealots of Mystra finished. If anybody thinks of a good name for them, let me know. I'm avoiding "chosen of Mystra" because that's better for Incarnates, and I don't want to use her knightly orders as that's better for her Champions/paladins. Been doing other things lately, so the pace got slowed for a bit. But, now I have:
7 Champion kits 7 Zealot kits
I'll probably do twothree more of each, the Ur Priest, and then pass it on. It shouldn't take long as I'm on a role
I have real trouble buying into the incarnates as described currently. The very idea of a random mortal having been "chosen" by a divinity sounds pretty sketchy unless the deity in question actually had a hand in creating or at least shaping that individual. Maybe the incarnate has to have spent most of his early years within an area where the deity has sway, like a major temple or demiplane in which that deity's power permeates reality. That would explain a lot. I could see, for example, an orphan left on a church's doorstep growing up largely on consecrated ground but never actually having been part of the clergy. The deity, for its own inscrutable reasons, takes a liking to the child and begins appearing in his dreams...and from there an incarnate is born. So really its just a matter of filling out the "fluff". Now that I think about it the same goes for zealots - there's got to be something beyond strong faith at work, otherwise there would incarnates and zealots all over the place. They'd be nearly as common as rogues.
18-plus spheres, to my thinking, is a bit excessive. Personally I think the 2nd edition PHB got it pretty much right, with clerical spheres working almost identically to wizardry schools but adding a few more domains to account for the mythology of the gods. There were only two real flaws:the lack of spells for every sphere at each level and, with a couple of faiths described in various expansion books, you could make either healing or protection forbidden spheres for a priest..and in one case I think it was both! That's pretty crippling, no question, and not very logical. Gods are immortal and command the most fundamental magics, so with very few exceptions they should all have some kind of regenerative powers to bestow. My feeling is that rather than moving spells to spheres where they clearly don't belong, new spells could be created that do a similar job. Take Bless: its clearly meant to grant a small measure extra luck to recipients. Why couldn't there be a divination spell that supplies a bit of precognition for a similar effect? Yes, its arguable that paralyzation or holds might nullify any dodge-based bonuses with that kind of spell (AC, save vs ray, etc). Perhaps the spell could have another benefit that offsets that disadvantage. I have no doubt that spells of the kind I'm describing were probably in some of the 2nd ed expansion materials..it seems like too good of an idea to not have been used. (I should really dig through my collection and find out for sure.) In any case, I'd rather see the existing 12 spheres renamed and redefined rather than having more added. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems like it would be less work to make the spheres more expansive so they can host more spells as opposed to having more spheres with fewer spells. Its possible that some F&P users may not want new spells added even though the mod is clearly labeled as "non-purist". Frankly I think there would be very few folks with that mindset: if a player is willing to use a totally new sphere system then some added spells should be no big deal, esp. if they fill a niche that's been neglected. I could even see something like Spell Revisions supplying some of those new spells, assuming inter-mod support could be worked out. Note: I haven't read all of this thread so if you're already creating spells to fill in the gaps then kudos, and ignore my ignorance (though please still consider keeping the sphere count at an even dozen..maybe fifteen, tops).
RE: the incarnates of Mystra: since "chosen of Mystra" has specific meaning in the 2nd edition lore (and is a bit generic if you disregard that lore), how about "conduit"? Or maybe "spellborn"?
@psychros: As a longtime DM for 3.5, I totally hear you. I think that's why 3ED had a core list of spells and then domains that supplemented them for flavor. I also disagree, haha, mostly because mythologically, there have been many gods overseeing many, MANY domains. Just think about the Greek Pantheon - even the main dozen gods each have at least one domain. and that's not even accounting for all of the demigods floating around with different foci. So it ends up being a question of granularity; how much can you cover with a domain/sphere while maintaining its flavor in an RPG? It's a hard question, no doubt about it. Also forgive my narrow view... I grew up on 3ed and I'm too stubborn to move on.
I also disagree about regeneration being universal... sorta. I don't think a god of death having followers who heal is exactly the right flavor, haha, and I would say the same for many of the elemental gods, or gods of destruction, or even gods of knowledge. But from a gameplay standpoint, it's important that someone on the team can heal, and that role typically falls on the priest person. This, to me, is a failure of the overall system for not having a good way to heal that doesn't rely on having a priest, more than anything. Sooooo, I think most priests for this system should have solid healing spells just so that you can keep your party alive without constantly resting, haha. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this mod is trying to mostly preserve that.
And so we have a bunch of different ways to do this and just as many views on which way is best. Mechanically, there's a case to be made for "here is a list of all spells priests can use." Flavor-wise, there's a different case for "pick the domains that make the most sense for your character and his beliefs." And there's a huge area where you can pick some approach in the middle, and no matter what you do, someone's going to have a different way of looking at it. You can even see it for this game: vanilla BG has a master list of spells, the Divine Remix mod has a different approach involving spheres, and this mod has a still more differenter approach that also involves spheres... Sooo, yeah, it ultimately comes down to taste.
Personally, I like this mod's approach better than the other two I listed, and I'm fine with having this many domains... but that's just me. I tried DR a long time ago and didn't like the fact that I didn't have enough healing spells because Shar (very reasonably, in my mind), didn't have a big focus on healing... which was good for flavor but crippling when Viconia was my solo priest. So you win some, you lose some!
Still though, good post with a lot of thoughtful points.
@psycros , the Incarnates will not be canonical Chosen per se; they basically are the Sorcerer equivalent to Clerics. They don't have real clerical training, but their deity has decided that they have the right mindset to further the deity's goals in the material plane. This is almost precisely how Favoured Souls (3E) and Oracles (PF) are created lorewise.
I like those suggestions for the zealot and incarnate.
The op is a bit...dated. I have to update it and create a proper readme. That is in progress. We're still working on spell placement, and we are definitely creating new spells to fill in gaps ( many inspired by faiths and avatars). We're open to revisions, but i think a priority right now is to get a more or less fully stable release out ( that can and should be critiqued).
As a progress update, I'm working on the ur-priest kit. This is is something of an "anti cleric" that users special rituals to siphon divine power from the gods. They do not benefit from cure spells, but they have a special ability to drain the divine essence of other creatures to both heal themselves and recover spell slots at higher levels
When you say "they don't benefit from cure spells," do you mean they don't GET cure spells, or they just can't be healed using cure spells? Those two things are very different, haha. And also super relevant to the discussion we were just having.
When you say "they don't benefit from cure spells," do you mean they don't GET cure spells, or they just can't be healed using cure spells? Those two things are very different, haha. And also super relevant to the discussion we were just having.
Lol, yup. Well, right now cure light wounds is a universal spell, so they'll get that. But no, they won't get others, and cure spells won't heal them
FnP currently drops Mist of Eldath to 6th level to address its weakness. Changing spell levels can be done almost as an afterthought with the sphere system (just need to edit a text file) so more adjustment is possible.
You could replace the incantation sound file with this.
Do you mean the "kllzzzee" sound of mr freezes Ray? Probably not, but there are similar sounds in the game. In any case, it's still a bit before looking at additional spells
Finished a champion of Azuth, called an Inquisitor.
Btw, the Inquisitor of Azuth will fill pretty much the same role as the old inquisitor kit. Also, the Kelevmore champion (Knight of Eternal Order) will effectively fill the role of the Undead Slayer (in IWDEE, the Harvester of Myrkul will fill this role)
So, that's: 8 Champion kits 7 Zealot kits
I'm probably just going to do one more champion and 2 more zealots. I'm itching to get this out the door
I'm itching to play the new content! I finally uploaded the current beta and there's a ton of great stuff already.
Curious: the new rangers won't upload, probably because I also had MnG installed beforehand. What's the best load order for these three mods to get everything in there correctly?
Edit: Cleric of Kelemvor won't install either, and Multiclass Acolytes of Shar don't show up currently.
Makes sense. I figured it was most likely because the beta was out of date, but figured I'd check. And yeah... the dervishes were not what I was most excited to play, and I see how grouping the zealots there would make sense. Again, looking forward to the next release!
So we'll have some rangers who get divine powers at lower levels? Interesting. What will the trade-off be? TBH I never did understand why any single-class ranger would get spells other than maybe druid ones. Even Aragorn didn't have that kind of mojo. I can definitely see rangers getting certain kinds of knowledge bonuses regarding the lands their based in, a bit like bards often do. Hey, here's a thought: maybe zealots could get some kind of "intuition" power that lets them do things like detect alignment or penetrate illusions. Maybe they could be true ranger-mystics who are in tune with reality a little beyond the natural world - a bit like a shaman, but more warrior than priest.
Comments
Also, finished the zealot of Kossuth.
Edit; okay, so far that's 7 champion kits and 3 zealot kits. I'll probably make about 2 more champions, and about 5ish more zealots. Then, I'll do the Ur priest and give the whole thing over to @subtledoctor
7 Champion kits
5 Zealot kits
7 Champion kits
6 Zealot kits
In the process of testing in IWDEE for possible issues.
I couldn't find a link for that in first page.
If it's not available yet but you need testers, I'll be happy to volunteer.
Somebody please jump in here if I'm wrong.
But i want the tweak stuff to be settled first. I'm hesitant to give a specific date because i don't want to disappoint, but i feel like we could have that part--a first draft anyway-- done soon.
@wyakpa
You can both have a beta copy to try out if you like right now. We're pretty close to ' official' release atm. I'm about 5 kits away from handing it over to subtle...
Anyway, let me know if you are interested
7 Champion kits
7 Zealot kits
I'll probably do twothree more of each, the Ur Priest, and then pass it on. It shouldn't take long as I'm on a role
I have real trouble buying into the incarnates as described currently. The very idea of a random mortal having been "chosen" by a divinity sounds pretty sketchy unless the deity in question actually had a hand in creating or at least shaping that individual. Maybe the incarnate has to have spent most of his early years within an area where the deity has sway, like a major temple or demiplane in which that deity's power permeates reality. That would explain a lot. I could see, for example, an orphan left on a church's doorstep growing up largely on consecrated ground but never actually having been part of the clergy. The deity, for its own inscrutable reasons, takes a liking to the child and begins appearing in his dreams...and from there an incarnate is born. So really its just a matter of filling out the "fluff". Now that I think about it the same goes for zealots - there's got to be something beyond strong faith at work, otherwise there would incarnates and zealots all over the place. They'd be nearly as common as rogues.
18-plus spheres, to my thinking, is a bit excessive. Personally I think the 2nd edition PHB got it pretty much right, with clerical spheres working almost identically to wizardry schools but adding a few more domains to account for the mythology of the gods. There were only two real flaws:the lack of spells for every sphere at each level and, with a couple of faiths described in various expansion books, you could make either healing or protection forbidden spheres for a priest..and in one case I think it was both! That's pretty crippling, no question, and not very logical. Gods are immortal and command the most fundamental magics, so with very few exceptions they should all have some kind of regenerative powers to bestow. My feeling is that rather than moving spells to spheres where they clearly don't belong, new spells could be created that do a similar job. Take Bless: its clearly meant to grant a small measure extra luck to recipients. Why couldn't there be a divination spell that supplies a bit of precognition for a similar effect? Yes, its arguable that paralyzation or holds might nullify any dodge-based bonuses with that kind of spell (AC, save vs ray, etc). Perhaps the spell could have another benefit that offsets that disadvantage. I have no doubt that spells of the kind I'm describing were probably in some of the 2nd ed expansion materials..it seems like too good of an idea to not have been used. (I should really dig through my collection and find out for sure.) In any case, I'd rather see the existing 12 spheres renamed and redefined rather than having more added. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems like it would be less work to make the spheres more expansive so they can host more spells as opposed to having more spheres with fewer spells. Its possible that some F&P users may not want new spells added even though the mod is clearly labeled as "non-purist". Frankly I think there would be very few folks with that mindset: if a player is willing to use a totally new sphere system then some added spells should be no big deal, esp. if they fill a niche that's been neglected. I could even see something like Spell Revisions supplying some of those new spells, assuming inter-mod support could be worked out. Note: I haven't read all of this thread so if you're already creating spells to fill in the gaps then kudos, and ignore my ignorance (though please still consider keeping the sphere count at an even dozen..maybe fifteen, tops).
RE: the incarnates of Mystra: since "chosen of Mystra" has specific meaning in the 2nd edition lore (and is a bit generic if you disregard that lore), how about "conduit"? Or maybe "spellborn"?
I also disagree about regeneration being universal... sorta. I don't think a god of death having followers who heal is exactly the right flavor, haha, and I would say the same for many of the elemental gods, or gods of destruction, or even gods of knowledge. But from a gameplay standpoint, it's important that someone on the team can heal, and that role typically falls on the priest person. This, to me, is a failure of the overall system for not having a good way to heal that doesn't rely on having a priest, more than anything. Sooooo, I think most priests for this system should have solid healing spells just so that you can keep your party alive without constantly resting, haha. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this mod is trying to mostly preserve that.
And so we have a bunch of different ways to do this and just as many views on which way is best. Mechanically, there's a case to be made for "here is a list of all spells priests can use." Flavor-wise, there's a different case for "pick the domains that make the most sense for your character and his beliefs." And there's a huge area where you can pick some approach in the middle, and no matter what you do, someone's going to have a different way of looking at it. You can even see it for this game: vanilla BG has a master list of spells, the Divine Remix mod has a different approach involving spheres, and this mod has a still more differenter approach that also involves spheres... Sooo, yeah, it ultimately comes down to taste.
Personally, I like this mod's approach better than the other two I listed, and I'm fine with having this many domains... but that's just me. I tried DR a long time ago and didn't like the fact that I didn't have enough healing spells because Shar (very reasonably, in my mind), didn't have a big focus on healing... which was good for flavor but crippling when Viconia was my solo priest. So you win some, you lose some!
Still though, good post with a lot of thoughtful points.
The op is a bit...dated. I have to update it and create a proper readme. That is in progress. We're still working on spell placement, and we are definitely creating new spells to fill in gaps ( many inspired by faiths and avatars). We're open to revisions, but i think a priority right now is to get a more or less fully stable release out ( that can and should be critiqued).
As a progress update, I'm working on the ur-priest kit. This is is something of an "anti cleric" that users special rituals to siphon divine power from the gods. They do not benefit from cure spells, but they have a special ability to drain the divine essence of other creatures to both heal themselves and recover spell slots at higher levels
This is one of those spells that is a bit weak for it's level...that will be addressed
Note that this will likely first be done here:
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/59668/iwd-divine-spells-in-bgee-sod-and-bg2ee/p1
(Don't actually do this)
Btw, the Inquisitor of Azuth will fill pretty much the same role as the old inquisitor kit. Also, the Kelevmore champion (Knight of Eternal Order) will effectively fill the role of the Undead Slayer (in IWDEE, the Harvester of Myrkul will fill this role)
So, that's:
8 Champion kits
7 Zealot kits
I'm probably just going to do one more champion and 2 more zealots. I'm itching to get this out the door
Curious: the new rangers won't upload, probably because I also had MnG installed beforehand. What's the best load order for these three mods to get everything in there correctly?
Edit: Cleric of Kelemvor won't install either, and Multiclass Acolytes of Shar don't show up currently.