Actually, now that I installed it, I see that - the focus spell has one header with target = "dead actor (3)" and uses opcode 146 with target = "preset target" and parameter2 = "cast instantly (ignore level)" - the vanilla spell has a single header with min_level = 1 and target = "dead actor (3)" and uses opcode 32 ("raise dead") with target = "preset target" Maybe there's an issue with the outer spell and subspell both using the "dead actor" target...? Maybe the targeting isn't being passed into the subspell?
I don't think so, those are the settings everything should be using. The issue is likely elsewhere.
Incidentally - I know we've got about three conversations going at once here, but:
I've got a free hour or two, so I'm going to dive into the mod and make the changes necessary to create more tailored usability and proficiency rules for different kits. This will now be run through a variable in the core sphere system function, and the number of variables is more or less unlimited, so we can do more interesting things than we could before when we only had 3 kit flags and a couple multiclass flags. On the other hand we shouldn't necessarily go crazy. I feel like we can have a usability rule for each archetype, plus a few exceptional cases (e.g., elven cleric kits can use longswords and bows; dwarven cleric kits can use axes; etc.)
As a technical matter, I think the mod adds 75+ kits at the moment; if we only use opcode 319 then we're talking about adding as many as 75 extra effects to every weapon and armor in the game. That seems a bit crazy. So we should think about how to minimize that - maybe try to rely on class flags and opcode 181 where we can, and only use opcode 319 for item types that need more particular handling.
Anyway, let's hear from anyone/everyone about what usability and proficiency should look like. I'll throw out some basic ideas, but feel free to discuss and criticize them and add your own.
- Acolytes can only use fairly basic weapons, and only light/leather armors - Clerics of elven deities can use longswords and bows (maybe specialize) BUT acolytes cannot - Question: should multiclass priests get their own rules - should they be treated like a distinct archetype? Or alternatively, should they share the same rules as clerics, simply being the cleric archetype mixed with another class. - Champions can use heavy armor and heavy weapons, but only reach specialization - more tanky. - Zealots can only use light armors and lighter weapons, but can reach mastery - more like glass cannons. ... what else?
I think long sword specialisation should be limited to Corellon Larethian. He is the Elven god of war and wields one so it makes sense, but Labelas Enoreth is a scholar god it makes little sense. Likewise, a cleric or even an acolyte of Moradin could specialise in the warhammer but one of Berenor Truesilver would not.
Hmm, I should have used 'able to' instead of 'apt to'.
That sounds like a reasonable could do plan. You know the engine limitations and I don't so am at a bit of a disadvantage with that unfortunately, hehheh. But I am learning a little, I think.
Seems something wrong again. I installed the most updated version of FnP with DR and MnG, and it happened that the some ranger kits from DR and MnG is not selectable, e.g. Archer. Even the NPC set to be those kit, e.g. Kivan is Archer, the priest spell book is wrong, i.e. Only cure light wound in level one.
I am not sure it is caused by which mod, but it did not happen with older version of FnP.
I attached the screenshots for your reference. Still no Zealot (even by dialog in game, i.e. select deity) and Acolyte can be selected and also find my weidu log as attachement too.
This is what happened when I chose half-elf and champion.
Is there any known incompatibilities between FnP and Refinement? It seems that the description for champion in your screenshot stayed the same while mine is paladin. And I thought it may related to Refinement HLAs? @subtledoctor
Is there any known incompatibilities between FnP and Refinement? It seems that the description for champion in your screenshot stayed the same while mine is paladin. And I thought it may related to Refinement HLAs? @subtledoctor
Are you using subtledoctors updated refinements? They should work well together...
Okay I uploaded v0.69h, with the following changes: - Fixed Acolytes and Zealots appearing in kit menus in install option 1 - Implemented minor-access spells being gained later than major-access spells - Added a Scroll of Memorization so that you can pick/memorize/cast spells without resting when you choose a kit - Changed Jaheira into a proper FnP-style fighter/forest druid (i.e. a fighter/cleric with the forest druid kit) - Changed some class text (e.g. fighter/cleric => fighter/priest) - Implemented several bug-fixes for DR kits (fixing clab tables, alignmnt.2da, etc.) - Added Grease and Acid Arrow for DR Oozemaster - Added Summon Green Slimes and Acid Sheath for DR Oozemaster, if SR is installed
@subtledoctor Do you think the green slime summons will have strange names (SoD speech lines) attached to them as other new creatures introduced in SR while using bgee+SoD? As I mentioned on G3, I am using Beamdog supplied games.
And if I install the mod by choosing option 2, i.e. kit on menus, there is no zealot issue. But still double elven archer. Also some kit's description only got "...", is that intentional? update in coming version?
@Zaghoul I just installed SRv4b15* onto SoD and they look fine to me.
* (You have to change the first reference to spin203.spl in /lib/kreso_eestatSR.tph to "spin105")
Wow, I did it! Thanks doc. Now to test it. Shouldn't that be made permanent in the mod?
Yes, but it's not my mod...
Well at least the install worked. Just the same problem with the shadows, when summed are named 'Why have you come here". At least they seem to work correctly. What do you reckon causes that? OM snake summons do something similar.
SHoot, where do I find the newest release again, it's not the one on page 1. .69h? I know I came across it once but cant remember how at the moment. The stuff on Github was QUITE confusing.
EDIT: I think I've got it, took some diggin. Looks like ya'll are keeping separate downloads.
*Oozemaster starting charisma has reverted to druid standard of 15. It should be a low end minimum of 7
EDIT2: Nevermind, that sorted itself out to on another load, weird.
A new 1st lvl character was getting the new spell grease. Circle of bones is at 1st lvl instead of 3rd where I think it is supposed to be.
EEK'ed my 9th lvl OM Assigned Grease, acid arrow, summon slimes, and acid sheath to him. All worked and looked great. (This is where I noticed circle of bones at 1st and 3rd lvl)
*What do you think of vitriolic sphere or acid/death fog (SP) being on the kit? Seems to fit the acid thang we got goin. (What with him turning into mustard jelly and all- chuckin out globs of goop) **Ohh, I see acid fog and acid storm are already on the cleric spell list in EEK, not sure if he gets them or not in his spheres. Maybe just vitriolic sphere from mage list then.
Seems like ALOT of new spells added. I am guessing you hand picked the spheres. Anyway, nice stuff, the sphere with stinking cloud in it is esp. fitting.
The 3rd lvl shadow monsters spells breaks the game just after beginning to cast it.
I had a blue potion of magic blocking so tested it. Still dispelled acid resistance gained at 9th lvl as usual. Poison resistance was untouched, as usual. As well as dispel magic on myself, as before.
***Additional. installing the game: option 1 to install all did not work. adding separately did work. I extracted more than just the lib file, from the FnP file so maybe that was it, maybe not.(I put the whole file in the main mod section)
That's it for now. A very good start to it I think.
*****EDIT: This is very strange, I loaded the same EEK'ed character up again, after quitting the game, just to check it again. NOW, dispel magic and the potion of magic blocking DO NOT dispel acid resistance. Whats up with THAT? Delayed reaction or something? Anyway that seems fixed now.
Shadow monster spell still breaks the game though.
What would it take to add the Ooze mephit familiar to the oozemaster alienist kit, as was mentioned in description? Find familiar spell access to these alienists with that given regardless of alignment? We have the ooze mephit already set up more or less from Watchers Keep in BG2. Talk could just be replaced with dust mephit's speech. Just suggestion, not sure of the difficulties of course. Seems like it MIGHT be possible.
Well, until ya mentioned kits and deities, I figgered ya just had too much coffee. But looking at it from that perspective I could actually see it for this mod.
Scimitars fit better with long swords- both have more of a one handed grip than all the great swords and certainly the katanas, which is about the length of a forearm when getting kitted out for a real one. No sense why kits and deities would separate a long sword and scimitar out.
I could see halberds in the 2her group, considering how they have been used in front line ranks by the Landsknecht's, who I think were trained in long pike ,halberd and zweihander or 2Hed sword (Ive looked through wayyy too many Museum Replica's catalogs, hehheh) Makes sense, especially for Tempus or Helm.
Simple weapons look pretty good, esp. for the least war trained kits/deities.
My 2cents anyway. For starters.
**Ive noticed all the weapons usable by the mystics, did they have codes removed(some old class name of who could not use were removed as well)? Armor restriction did not change though, at least on this oozemaster test run today.
Okay, I think I've cracked the usability nut. A couple of issues:
- I'm looking at distinguishing by item type. Currently, in some games at least, clubs are lumped in as item type "maces." So we'll have to change them to type "clubs (44)." I don't know if that will have any effect on any in-game processes or other mods... but I'm pretty sure it will not. If anyone knows otherwise, please correct me.
- Likewise, and much more problematic, all long swords, scimitars, katanas, bastard swords, and 2-handed swords are lumped together as type "large swords." There are a couple ways to go here:
1) Change long swords and scimitars to "small swords." This way some kits like a cleric of Corellon Larethian will be able to use swords, meaning long swords, short swords, and scimitars. Other kits, like a cleric of Helm or Tempus, might be able to use all swords including bastard swords and 2-handed swords. I don't know if changing the item type of long swords will have and effect on the game or other mods... I don't think it will. But I'm not 100% certain.
2) Change long swords to the "small swords" item type, and separate out scimitars, and maybe katanas, as a different item type. Not sure which - we would have to find an unused one. Maybe "greatswords (57)"
- Finally, right now I have spears lumped in with the "simple weapons" that every cleric can use - along with daggers, clubs, quarterstaves, and slings. And halberds are lumped in as "large blades" with bastard swords and 2-handed swords. The idea being, clerics of the more warlike deities like Tempus can use the bigger, more military weapons while the use of simpler spears can be more common.
Does that sound good? Anyone disagree with that setup?
The key thing here is not to think about "what weapons go together for a proficiency system" or something like that, but rather, what weapons will be used by particular kits or followers of particular deities.
I'm inclined to just lump scimitars in with long swords and short swords. I know there's this idea that "ooh, scimitars look like the crescent moon!" But in fact they really don't look like the moon. If a particular kit can use swords, then it can use swords.
Oh, duh, we're using 181. I get the issue, now. I was thinking with a 180 head.
Aside from use slot, I think that item types are essentially just internal variables. I just changed a dagger to type 'sling' and it still acted like a dagger in every way (and it did not give melee opponents any kind of advantage--I think that is tied to damage type, or something).
Anyway, as such, we do not need to tie every weapon to proficiency, only the 'advanced military weapons'. Any weapon that any untrained character might be able to pick up and use could just be lumped into a single weapon type (e.g. slings, or whatever). This would free up a number of different item types that could tie item use to proficiency.
What items would be 'universal'? What about daggers, clubs, slings and staffs? If we move all of these to the same item type (one of them), then that opens up 3 slots. Add spears, and that's 4.
Let's say we move all of these to 'sling'. We then have 'small sword', 'large sword', 'dagger', 'club', 'staff' and maybe 'spear' to divvy up swords.
Maybe:
small swords: long swords large swords: great swords dagger: short swords club: katanas staff: scimitars /wakashashi (sp) spear: bastard swords
Am I missing anything?
Note, that proficiency can stay the same, so one still gets bonuses (or loses penalties) as normal with these weapons by taking proficiency.
I don't know if that will have any effect on any in-game processes or other mods... but I'm pretty sure it will not. If anyone knows otherwise, please correct me.
For weapons, there are some limitations:
Only the original 15 weapon categories (all < #32) can be dual-wielded, 3 of which are the launcher categories, and 1 which doesn't allow weapon animations(always appear unarmed).
There is no practical limit to the number of weapon categories that can be created for Main-hand-only weapons (Two-handed, Thrown, or just to prevent off-hand use).
There is no practical limit to the number of weapon categories that can be created for ammunition.
Launcher's must use their current categories, as these categories are hardcoded to field 0x10 of item abilities. You cannot equip 2 items of the same launcher category, and any item of this category counts to equip its relevant ammunition(it doesn't need to use the "Launcher" ability type), so there isn't much else you can do with these categories.
If you are going to move item categories, the first thing you want to do is free up dual-wield slots by moving two-handed weapons into new slots. To give you an idea, here is how I sort Weapon Categories:
Arrows (5) -> Arrows (no Change)
Bullets (14) -> Bullets (no Change)
Bows (15) -> Bows (no Change)
Daggers (16) -> Daggers (Melee/Dual)
NEW (##) -> Throwing Daggers (Thrown/Main-hand-only)
Maces (17) -> Maces (Melee/Dual)
Slings (18) -> Slings (no Change)
Small Swords (19) -> Short Swords (Melee/Dual)
Large Swords (20) -> Long Swords (Melee/Dual)
Hammers (21) -> Light Hammers (1d4+1/Melee/Dual)
NEW (##) -> Throwing Hammers (Thrown/Main-hand-only)
NEW (##) -> Heavy Hammers (2d4/Melee/Main-hand-only)
Morning Stars (22) -> Clubs (Melee/Dual)
NEW (##) -> Morningstars (2d4/Melee/Main-hand-only)
Flails (23) -> Flails (Melee/Dual)
Darts (24) -> Claws/Punch Daggers/Knuckles/Fist Irons (Melee/Dual/No Animation) (mostly PST imports, when/if I ever get around to it)
NEW (##) -> Darts (Thrown/Main-hand-only)
Axes (25) -> Battle Axe (Melee/Dual)
NEW (##) -> Throwing Axe (Thrown/Main-hand-only)
NEW (##) -> Two-handed Axe (Melee/Two-handed)
Quarterstaves (26) -> (empty) (Melee/Dual)
NEW (##) -> Quarterstaves (Melee/Two-handed/Main-hand-only(Staff Mace))
Crossbows (27) -> Crossbows (no Change)
Spears (29) -> Scimitars (Melee/Dual)
NEW (##) -> Spears (Melee/Two-handed)
NEW (##) -> Throwing Spears (Thrown/Main-hand-only)
Halberds (30) -> Wakizashi/Ninjato (Melee/Dual)
NEW (##) -> Halberds (Melee/Two-handed)
Great Swords (57) -> Two-handed Swords (Melee/Two-handed)
(I restrict all 2d4 weapons (+katanas) to the main-hand) Those with ## don't already exist in ITEMTYPE.2DA.
Armor/Shields:
There is no practical limit to the number of Armor Categories. Instead of everything being "Armor (2)", you could have:
Leather Armor (60)
Studded Leather (61)
Hide (66) // Light Non-metal (Yeti)
Elven Chain (##)
Chainmail (62)
Scale Mail (68) // Medium Non-metal (White/Black Dragon)
Splint Mail (63)
Plate Mail (64)
Field Plate (##) // Heavy Non-metal (Ankheg, Red/Blue/Silver Dragon, Polar Worm, Umber Hulk, Rhino Beetle)
Full Plate (65)
Robes (67)
There is nothing you can do with Shield Categories. Only category 12 works, any other category will be treated as a weapon in the shield slot, and cause a variety of problems.
Any new Item Categories just need to be added to ITEMTYPE.2da (with sound and slot entries), ITEMCAT.IDS(no actual function, just enables other mods to search for them by name), and to all STO files that need to be able to buy/sell them.
Comments
That sounds like a reasonable could do plan. You know the engine limitations and I don't so am at a bit of a disadvantage with that unfortunately, hehheh. But I am learning a little, I think.
I am not sure it is caused by which mod, but it did not happen with older version of FnP.
This is what happened when I chose half-elf and champion.
@subtledoctor Got it. Thanks for the advice.
As I mentioned on G3, I am using Beamdog supplied games.
Now to test it.
Shouldn't that be made permanent in the mod?
OM snake summons do something similar.
SHoot, where do I find the newest release again, it's not the one on page 1. .69h? I know I came across it once but cant remember how at the moment. The stuff on Github was QUITE confusing.
EDIT: I think I've got it, took some diggin. Looks like ya'll are keeping separate downloads.
*Oozemaster starting charisma has reverted to druid standard of 15.
It should be a low end minimum of 7
EDIT2: Nevermind, that sorted itself out to on another load, weird.
A new 1st lvl character was getting the new spell grease.
Circle of bones is at 1st lvl instead of 3rd where I think it is supposed to be.
EEK'ed my 9th lvl OM
Assigned Grease, acid arrow, summon slimes, and acid sheath to him. All worked and looked great.
(This is where I noticed circle of bones at 1st and 3rd lvl)
*What do you think of vitriolic sphere or acid/death fog (SP) being on the kit? Seems to fit the acid thang we got goin. (What with him turning into mustard jelly and all- chuckin out globs of goop)
**Ohh, I see acid fog and acid storm are already on the cleric spell list in EEK, not sure if he gets them or not in his spheres. Maybe just vitriolic sphere from mage list then.
Seems like ALOT of new spells added. I am guessing you hand picked the spheres. Anyway, nice stuff, the sphere with stinking cloud in it is esp. fitting.
The 3rd lvl shadow monsters spells breaks the game just after beginning to cast it.
I had a blue potion of magic blocking so tested it. Still dispelled acid resistance gained at 9th lvl as usual.
Poison resistance was untouched, as usual. As well as dispel magic on myself, as before.
***Additional. installing the game: option 1 to install all did not work. adding separately did work. I extracted more than just the lib file, from the FnP file so maybe that was it, maybe not.(I put the whole file in the main mod section)
That's it for now. A very good start to it I think.
*****EDIT: This is very strange, I loaded the same EEK'ed character up again, after quitting the game, just to check it again. NOW, dispel magic and the potion of magic blocking DO NOT dispel acid resistance.
Whats up with THAT? Delayed reaction or something? Anyway that seems fixed now.
Shadow monster spell still breaks the game though.
Find familiar spell access to these alienists with that given regardless of alignment? We have the ooze mephit already set up more or less from Watchers Keep in BG2. Talk could just be replaced with dust mephit's speech.
Just suggestion, not sure of the difficulties of course. Seems like it MIGHT be possible.
Scimitars fit better with long swords- both have more of a one handed grip than all the great swords and certainly the katanas, which is about the length of a forearm when getting kitted out for a real one. No sense why kits and deities would separate a long sword and scimitar out.
I could see halberds in the 2her group, considering how they have been used in front line ranks by the Landsknecht's, who I think were trained in long pike ,halberd and zweihander or 2Hed sword (Ive looked through wayyy too many Museum Replica's catalogs, hehheh)
Makes sense, especially for Tempus or Helm.
Simple weapons look pretty good, esp. for the least war trained kits/deities.
My 2cents anyway. For starters.
**Ive noticed all the weapons usable by the mystics, did they have codes removed(some old class name of who could not use were removed as well)? Armor restriction did not change though, at least on this oozemaster test run today.
Aside from use slot, I think that item types are essentially just internal variables. I just changed a dagger to type 'sling' and it still acted like a dagger in every way (and it did not give melee opponents any kind of advantage--I think that is tied to damage type, or something).
Anyway, as such, we do not need to tie every weapon to proficiency, only the 'advanced military weapons'. Any weapon that any untrained character might be able to pick up and use could just be lumped into a single weapon type (e.g. slings, or whatever). This would free up a number of different item types that could tie item use to proficiency.
What items would be 'universal'? What about daggers, clubs, slings and staffs? If we move all of these to the same item type (one of them), then that opens up 3 slots. Add spears, and that's 4.
Let's say we move all of these to 'sling'. We then have 'small sword', 'large sword', 'dagger', 'club', 'staff' and maybe 'spear' to divvy up swords.
Maybe:
small swords: long swords
large swords: great swords
dagger: short swords
club: katanas
staff: scimitars /wakashashi (sp)
spear: bastard swords
Am I missing anything?
Note, that proficiency can stay the same, so one still gets bonuses (or loses penalties) as normal with these weapons by taking proficiency.
- Only the original 15 weapon categories (all < #32) can be dual-wielded, 3 of which are the launcher categories, and 1 which doesn't allow weapon animations(always appear unarmed).
- There is no practical limit to the number of weapon categories that can be created for Main-hand-only weapons (Two-handed, Thrown, or just to prevent off-hand use).
- There is no practical limit to the number of weapon categories that can be created for ammunition.
- Launcher's must use their current categories, as these categories are hardcoded to field 0x10 of item abilities. You cannot equip 2 items of the same launcher category, and any item of this category counts to equip its relevant ammunition(it doesn't need to use the "Launcher" ability type), so there isn't much else you can do with these categories.
If you are going to move item categories, the first thing you want to do is free up dual-wield slots by moving two-handed weapons into new slots.To give you an idea, here is how I sort Weapon Categories:
- Arrows (5) -> Arrows (no Change)
- Bullets (14) -> Bullets (no Change)
- Bows (15) -> Bows (no Change)
- Daggers (16) -> Daggers (Melee/Dual)
- NEW (##) -> Throwing Daggers (Thrown/Main-hand-only)
- Maces (17) -> Maces (Melee/Dual)
- Slings (18) -> Slings (no Change)
- Small Swords (19) -> Short Swords (Melee/Dual)
- Large Swords (20) -> Long Swords (Melee/Dual)
- Hammers (21) -> Light Hammers (1d4+1/Melee/Dual)
- NEW (##) -> Throwing Hammers (Thrown/Main-hand-only)
- NEW (##) -> Heavy Hammers (2d4/Melee/Main-hand-only)
- Morning Stars (22) -> Clubs (Melee/Dual)
- NEW (##) -> Morningstars (2d4/Melee/Main-hand-only)
- Flails (23) -> Flails (Melee/Dual)
- Darts (24) -> Claws/Punch Daggers/Knuckles/Fist Irons (Melee/Dual/No Animation) (mostly PST imports, when/if I ever get around to it)
- NEW (##) -> Darts (Thrown/Main-hand-only)
- Axes (25) -> Battle Axe (Melee/Dual)
- NEW (##) -> Throwing Axe (Thrown/Main-hand-only)
- NEW (##) -> Two-handed Axe (Melee/Two-handed)
- Quarterstaves (26) -> (empty) (Melee/Dual)
- NEW (##) -> Quarterstaves (Melee/Two-handed/Main-hand-only(Staff Mace))
- Crossbows (27) -> Crossbows (no Change)
- Spears (29) -> Scimitars (Melee/Dual)
- NEW (##) -> Spears (Melee/Two-handed)
- NEW (##) -> Throwing Spears (Thrown/Main-hand-only)
- Halberds (30) -> Wakizashi/Ninjato (Melee/Dual)
- NEW (##) -> Halberds (Melee/Two-handed)
- Great Swords (57) -> Two-handed Swords (Melee/Two-handed)
- Bastard Swords (69) -> Bastard Swords (2d4/Melee/Main-hand-only)
- NEW (##) -> Katanas (Melee/Main-hand-only)
(I restrict all 2d4 weapons (+katanas) to the main-hand)Those with ## don't already exist in ITEMTYPE.2DA.
- Leather Armor (60)
- Studded Leather (61)
- Hide (66) // Light Non-metal (Yeti)
- Elven Chain (##)
- Chainmail (62)
- Scale Mail (68) // Medium Non-metal (White/Black Dragon)
- Splint Mail (63)
- Plate Mail (64)
- Field Plate (##) // Heavy Non-metal (Ankheg, Red/Blue/Silver Dragon, Polar Worm, Umber Hulk, Rhino Beetle)
- Full Plate (65)
- Robes (67)
There is nothing you can do with Shield Categories. Only category 12 works, any other category will be treated as a weapon in the shield slot, and cause a variety of problems.Any new Item Categories just need to be added to ITEMTYPE.2da (with sound and slot entries), ITEMCAT.IDS(no actual function, just enables other mods to search for them by name), and to all STO files that need to be able to buy/sell them.