Our 1d6 phantom spell with 2 Luck added to the target has now an outright 50% chance to do 1 point of damage (net 72% reduction from average), since damage rolls of (1+ Luck stat value) game reduces to minimum possible value (1). Imagine you had an item, say a ring, that gave you +2 to minimum damage, +2 to THAC0, and made you take more than 40% less spell damage (this 43% game doesn't really digest well due to rolls of 10, 8, 6 etc, in real game; reduction is roughly 50%). Now imagine you don't even need to waste an item or a spell slot to have it. It's practically a freakin HLA! (Hardiness will reduce physical damage by an ammount less than this, and doesn't give any other bonuses, it needs to be picked from the pool, and you don't have it untill 3M XP)
ADHW 20d8
1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8 = 36/8 x 20 = 90 avg.
+2 Luck
1+1+1+2+3+4+5+6 = 24/8 x 20 = 60 avg.
33% reduction.
This is only a math analysis, in game Luck is even better. Take an assassin who can backstab, using1d6 short sword. Say he's not yet very late in the game, being at 3x multiplier. Not only will he connect more often due to +2 THAC0 from Luck, his damage rolls (w/o any other bonuses) go like this: 1 = 3 x 3 multiplier = 9 damage 2 = 4x3 = 12 3 = 5x3 = 15 4 =6x3 = 18 5= 6x3 = 18 6 = 6x3 = 18
On average, 2 Luck increase backstab damage from a non-enchanted short sword by a whooping 71%. As always, in-game effect of such a bonus is rather drastic. It's no surprise @AlexT gave Venduris from Rogue Rebalancing an item with +3 Luck...this way, his backstabs always deal absurd ammout of damage. Combine this with +2 from Charisma, all your hits with a 1d6 wpn are at max damage. Then, when you figure it all out, add critical hits into this, since Luck's minimum damage rolls will have double the effect on the bonus double damage. As per your question, what about CHA stat, beats me. I feel Luck is ok there, but 1 max (for extra score of 21, 22 or so), maybe +2 for 24/25 (if you're really into buffing CHA, here).
I wouldn't. For Warrior types, offensive builds tend to be more effective in these games (i.e. it's better to kill enemies quickly before they attack too often, than to try to weather many of their attacks). And large Thac0 and damage bonuses help a lot with that.
Also, how did you calculate that "50% damage reduction from spell damage" statistic?
Nalia has a permanent luck bonus from her personal ring, and it doesn't feel like she's noticeably less vulnerable to enemy mages than other party members with similar stats.
Nalia's ring gives - 2AC and 50% fire resistance IIRC, not luck. Alora (in BG1) has a +2 luck with her rabbit foot ring. And though she is quite squishy against physical attacks I assure you that she can tank magic very well, much better than Safana, with the same CON and dice size as her.
By the way @subtledoctor I would be careful with CHA based luck bonus. Luck is indeed a very nice stat, and giving it to a class either a thief that can dual to mage or a bard that can cast friends (getting +6 charisma and thus extra +1/+2 luck) will be dumb. Remember that the Luck spell is level 2 and adds 1 luck for 3 rounds. It would be a very good spell if it lasted one turn or one round per level, but it doesn't, for balance reasons. Consider reworking "Friends" a bit if you do this. A couple of suggestions you might or might not like on one kit or another: CHA based bonus to crit chance. This is a rather fair buff considering that thieves and bards rely quite a bit on their attacks but their THAC0 ain't that great. It won't be too OP even if you stack charisma (let's say you extend your crit range by 1 for 16 charisma, 2 for 18, 3 for 20, 4 for 22 and 5 for 24, that gives you roughly 1/3 of crit attacks for 24 charisma so even with Friends and 18 charisma it is not too OP) but it will surely be useful. CHA based bonus to saving throws For bards, CHA based maluses to enemy saving throws against some spells. For example it makes sense that a charm should work better if your bard is Ryan Gosling than if he/she is Elephant-man
However I would be careful overall with CHA based bonuses. In both games you get the ring of Human Influence within the first hour of playing, so one could very well dump charisma and still get absurd bonuses. Consider editing this item as well if you intend to make CHA based bonuses.
Note how Magic missile damage is calculated. 1+1D4. Damage done with +2 to Luck is bare minimum on screenshot. The biggest damage available would be 4 (1 base + 5(-2Luck) rolled. So even if the rolls were all originally 5, they'd be 3 now. If you test this enough times, you'll see that the damage number that appears the most times in naturally, 2. Since rolls of 1 + 1 or 2 or 3 magic missile damage all equal 2 damage. 3 damage is possible, but it will occur less frequently (3-2 ratio).
@subtledoctor did you take the nymph cloaks/algernon's cloak into account? Both are available after a short time into both games (Algernon is at Feldepost, and the Nymph cloak you can buy from... I think the guy's called Gorch, anyway, the vendor in Mae'Var's Guildhall), and with the CHA tome being easy to get as well, you could get 21 CHA quite early without the ring in both games (but with the cloak). Not to mention that cloaks are a much less competitive slot than rings, considering there are only few good cloaks in both games.
By the way there's another way to permanently get a CHA bonus. Choosing the "good" path in the hell trial against Sarevok gets you +1 WIS/CHA.
I recently installed this mod on BG2 and tried out the bladesinger kit, and found that my character was only given a 1/2 APR bonus when using the bladesong, which looks off when compared to the readme. Is this correct? Thanks!
@subtledoctor I can throw "d5_rfa1.spl" into my override and add "AP_d5_rfa1" to "CLABFI01.2da" at every level and it works just fine on a fighter/thief.
Altering thief skills through the CLAB does not update the value until you complete the level-up process, so it won't show the increase on the level-up screen, but it is updated in the record screen afterwards.
2) The Marksman can't put more than two pips in Longbow (started with two pips and once I've reached lv 3 couldn't put the third point); playing as an EEKeepered elf Marksman due to situation #1.
3) Psionic powers, AFAIK, can't be disrupted due to damage and should bypass MR. Couldn't use it on the Flesh Golems of the CON Tome (MR blocked it) and was disrupted by an enemy archer once or twice.
4) IDK if it was because of the Marksman, but the Psypher if very powerful. Turned Imoen into one and much of the game was a piece of cake, with Imoen using Immobilize or Psionic Crush (stun) and Charname shooting everything. I'm currently at the end of the Cloakwood Mines and, playing with SCS, all I have in my party so far is both Imoen (dueled to Wizard after getting the powers above because the other ones didn't attract me very much) and Charname.
5) If you full heal a psionic before all the hit points are back, he/she'll stop recovering it. An example:
Imoen has 54 HP. Uses Immobilize, goes to 50 HP (max). Take an arrow delivering 5 damage, goes to 45. If I heal her up to 50 HP again she won't recover the 4 points lost due to the use of her psionic power.
6) The way I see, the HP recovering is too fast. Did a test spamming Psionic Crush in the Bandit Camp, and Imoen recovered HP faster than I was able to spend them.
That being said, my next run will be a Soulblade for sure. I think that psionic powers are a nice way of roleplaying the manifestation of Bhaal's Taint.
Awesome job, guys. Hope my feedback helps somehow.
2) The Marksman can't put more than two pips in Longbow (started with two pips and once I've reached lv 3 couldn't put the third point); playing as an EEKeepered elf Marksman due to situation #1.
I'll look into this. Depending on your mod setup, this could be intended. E.g. if you installed the SoB proficiency overhaul, I think you can't get 3 pips in any weapon until 6th level.
@subtledoctor Sweet! looking forward to try the Spellfilcher. Have you had a chance to look over the part where adding a thief kit to a multiclass fighter/thief doesnt not give you any advances at lvl up? (made Montoran an Fighter/Sniper once, and gained no feats etc at lvl up)
I see. How does it work if you dualclass? Will you get feats then? (If you dont have a kit to start with that is) Lets say i dual from pureclass fighter to assassin (with EE-npc)
IDK if it is intentional, but would be awesome for Soulblades combining those.
Talking about AR, it should definitely be made a sustainable ability.
Inertial Barrier and Carapace should be cumulative too. Despite both being psionic powers, one of them tightens your skin, while the other builds a wall around it. That is: they are different effects.
And let's remember that both rogues and Soulblades can't appeal to many armors, so minus four in AC would be essential, especially for fighters who should worry more about losing HP (the rogue is already fragile, so it shouldn't be under attack anyway).
With the alterations suggested above the Soulblade would be an awesome fighter, by far the best of all kits.
If you think it will be too overpowered, you may use this disadvantage besides light armor only: no helmets for Soulblades. In P&P, IIRC, Psionics takes a penalty for wearing one.
@subtledoctor just wondering about something. MnG makes pure fighters nearly as good as kitted ones, due to the feat systems. But they, for one, can dual into FnP clerics, which results in a really powerful, somewhat unbalanced IMHO, combination. I know you wanted to balance unkitted fighters with other fighters, but how do you plan to manage this interaction?
Shrouded Warrior - Fighter/Illusionist, can shroud himself to be harder to hit Boneblade Reaper - Fighter/Necromancer, has a boneblade that he can improve Bladed Magus - Enchant his own Arms & Armor Rage Mage (real name from complete warrior ) - Can cast through raging Berserker/Babar/Mage hybrid thing Battle Teleporter - Master of teleport spells Arcane Warrior - Focused on self buffs Spellsword - Cast in heavy armor (Maybe reduced spell slots or caster level) Eldritch Knight - Cast in light armor (Maybe reduced HP)
The are all 3.5 prestige class (so not my own ideas). But I think having some Specialist Fighter/Mages would be nice. Add some unique abilities or spells give some penalties and we have some cool Multiclasses
@subtledoctor did some quick checks, Spellfilcher does not gain any of the abilitys that they should. Thug(when eekeepered to max lvl in BgEE) gets a -1 in backstab, maxing them out at x3 modifier, is that as intended?
Edit: And the Alchemist still starts with Advanced Alchemy instead of Flaming Weapon
Comments
On average, it will do 3,5. (1+2+3+4+5+6 = total = 21/6; = 3.5)
Add one single Luck point to this.
damage rolls now
1=1
2=1
3=2
4=3
5=4
6=5
Total 16/6 = 2.66 // equals 25% reduction in damage
Add 2 Luck
1 = 1
2 = 1
3 = 1
4 = 2
5 = 3
6 = 4
total 12/6 = 2 // equals 43% damage reduction
Add 3 Luck
1= 1
2 =1
3= 1
4 = 1
5= 2
6 = 3
total 9/6 = 1.5 // equals 58% reduction
Our 1d6 phantom spell with 2 Luck added to the target has now an outright 50% chance to do 1 point of damage (net 72% reduction from average), since damage rolls of (1+ Luck stat value) game reduces to minimum possible value (1).
Imagine you had an item, say a ring, that gave you +2 to minimum damage, +2 to THAC0, and made you take more than 40% less spell damage (this 43% game doesn't really digest well due to rolls of 10, 8, 6 etc, in real game; reduction is roughly 50%).
Now imagine you don't even need to waste an item or a spell slot to have it.
It's practically a freakin HLA! (Hardiness will reduce physical damage by an ammount less than this, and doesn't give any other bonuses, it needs to be picked from the pool, and you don't have it untill 3M XP)
ADHW 20d8
1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8 = 36/8 x 20 = 90 avg.
+2 Luck
1+1+1+2+3+4+5+6 = 24/8 x 20 = 60 avg.
33% reduction.
This is only a math analysis, in game Luck is even better. Take an assassin who can backstab, using1d6 short sword. Say he's not yet very late in the game, being at 3x multiplier. Not only will he connect more often due to +2 THAC0 from Luck, his damage rolls (w/o any other bonuses) go like this:
1 = 3 x 3 multiplier = 9 damage
2 = 4x3 = 12
3 = 5x3 = 15
4 =6x3 = 18
5= 6x3 = 18
6 = 6x3 = 18
W/o any Luck, assassin's backstab damage rolls
1= 3 (gains 200% increase)
2 = 6 (100 %)
3 = 9 (60%)
4 = 12 (50%)
5 = 15 (20%)
6 = 18 (0%)
On average, 2 Luck increase backstab damage from a non-enchanted short sword by a whooping 71%.
As always, in-game effect of such a bonus is rather drastic. It's no surprise @AlexT gave Venduris from Rogue Rebalancing an item with +3 Luck...this way, his backstabs always deal absurd ammout of damage. Combine this with +2 from Charisma, all your hits with a 1d6 wpn are at max damage.
Then, when you figure it all out, add critical hits into this, since Luck's minimum damage rolls will have double the effect on the bonus double damage.
As per your question, what about CHA stat, beats me. I feel Luck is ok there, but 1 max (for extra score of 21, 22 or so), maybe +2 for 24/25 (if you're really into buffing CHA, here).
Alora (in BG1) has a +2 luck with her rabbit foot ring. And though she is quite squishy against physical attacks I assure you that she can tank magic very well, much better than Safana, with the same CON and dice size as her.
By the way @subtledoctor I would be careful with CHA based luck bonus. Luck is indeed a very nice stat, and giving it to a class either a thief that can dual to mage or a bard that can cast friends (getting +6 charisma and thus extra +1/+2 luck) will be dumb. Remember that the Luck spell is level 2 and adds 1 luck for 3 rounds. It would be a very good spell if it lasted one turn or one round per level, but it doesn't, for balance reasons. Consider reworking "Friends" a bit if you do this.
A couple of suggestions you might or might not like on one kit or another:
CHA based bonus to crit chance. This is a rather fair buff considering that thieves and bards rely quite a bit on their attacks but their THAC0 ain't that great. It won't be too OP even if you stack charisma (let's say you extend your crit range by 1 for 16 charisma, 2 for 18, 3 for 20, 4 for 22 and 5 for 24, that gives you roughly 1/3 of crit attacks for 24 charisma so even with Friends and 18 charisma it is not too OP) but it will surely be useful.
CHA based bonus to saving throws
For bards, CHA based maluses to enemy saving throws against some spells. For example it makes sense that a charm should work better if your bard is Ryan Gosling than if he/she is Elephant-man
However I would be careful overall with CHA based bonuses. In both games you get the ring of Human Influence within the first hour of playing, so one could very well dump charisma and still get absurd bonuses. Consider editing this item as well if you intend to make CHA based bonuses.
1 Luck
2 Luck
Note how Magic missile damage is calculated. 1+1D4. Damage done with +2 to Luck is bare minimum on screenshot.
The biggest damage available would be 4 (1 base + 5(-2Luck) rolled. So even if the rolls were all originally 5, they'd be 3 now. If you test this enough times, you'll see that the damage number that appears the most times in naturally, 2. Since rolls of 1 + 1 or 2 or 3 magic missile damage all equal 2 damage. 3 damage is possible, but it will occur less frequently (3-2 ratio).
Both are available after a short time into both games (Algernon is at Feldepost, and the Nymph cloak you can buy from... I think the guy's called Gorch, anyway, the vendor in Mae'Var's Guildhall), and with the CHA tome being easy to get as well, you could get 21 CHA quite early without the ring in both games (but with the cloak). Not to mention that cloaks are a much less competitive slot than rings, considering there are only few good cloaks in both games.
By the way there's another way to permanently get a CHA bonus. Choosing the "good" path in the hell trial against Sarevok gets you +1 WIS/CHA.
I can throw "d5_rfa1.spl" into my override and add "AP_d5_rfa1" to "CLABFI01.2da" at every level and it works just fine on a fighter/thief.
Altering thief skills through the CLAB does not update the value until you complete the level-up process, so it won't show the increase on the level-up screen, but it is updated in the record screen afterwards.
Second, I'll report some things:
1) An elf can't be a Marksman. IDK if it intended
2) The Marksman can't put more than two pips in Longbow (started with two pips and once I've reached lv 3 couldn't put the third point); playing as an EEKeepered elf Marksman due to situation #1.
3) Psionic powers, AFAIK, can't be disrupted due to damage and should bypass MR. Couldn't use it on the Flesh Golems of the CON Tome (MR blocked it) and was disrupted by an enemy archer once or twice.
4) IDK if it was because of the Marksman, but the Psypher if very powerful. Turned Imoen into one and much of the game was a piece of cake, with Imoen using Immobilize or Psionic Crush (stun) and Charname shooting everything. I'm currently at the end of the Cloakwood Mines and, playing with SCS, all I have in my party so far is both Imoen (dueled to Wizard after getting the powers above because the other ones didn't attract me very much) and Charname.
5) If you full heal a psionic before all the hit points are back, he/she'll stop recovering it. An example:
Imoen has 54 HP. Uses Immobilize, goes to 50 HP (max). Take an arrow delivering 5 damage, goes to 45. If I heal her up to 50 HP again she won't recover the 4 points lost due to the use of her psionic power.
6) The way I see, the HP recovering is too fast. Did a test spamming Psionic Crush in the Bandit Camp, and Imoen recovered HP faster than I was able to spend them.
That being said, my next run will be a Soulblade for sure. I think that psionic powers are a nice way of roleplaying the manifestation of Bhaal's Taint.
Awesome job, guys. Hope my feedback helps somehow.
Have you had a chance to look over the part where adding a thief kit to a multiclass fighter/thief doesnt not give you any advances at lvl up? (made Montoran an Fighter/Sniper once, and gained no feats etc at lvl up)
Adrenaline Rush and DUHM are not cumulative.
IDK if it is intentional, but would be awesome for Soulblades combining those.
Talking about AR, it should definitely be made a sustainable ability.
Inertial Barrier and Carapace should be cumulative too. Despite both being psionic powers, one of them tightens your skin, while the other builds a wall around it. That is: they are different effects.
And let's remember that both rogues and Soulblades can't appeal to many armors, so minus four in AC would be essential, especially for fighters who should worry more about losing HP (the rogue is already fragile, so it shouldn't be under attack anyway).
With the alterations suggested above the Soulblade would be an awesome fighter, by far the best of all kits.
If you think it will be too overpowered, you may use this disadvantage besides light armor only: no helmets for Soulblades. In P&P, IIRC, Psionics takes a penalty for wearing one.
I know you wanted to balance unkitted fighters with other fighters, but how do you plan to manage this interaction?
Shrouded Warrior - Fighter/Illusionist, can shroud himself to be harder to hit
Boneblade Reaper - Fighter/Necromancer, has a boneblade that he can improve
Bladed Magus - Enchant his own Arms & Armor
Rage Mage (real name from complete warrior
Battle Teleporter - Master of teleport spells
Arcane Warrior - Focused on self buffs
Spellsword - Cast in heavy armor (Maybe reduced spell slots or caster level)
Eldritch Knight - Cast in light armor (Maybe reduced HP)
The are all 3.5 prestige class (so not my own ideas). But I think having some Specialist Fighter/Mages would be nice. Add some unique abilities or spells give some penalties and we have some cool Multiclasses
Edit: And the Alchemist still starts with Advanced Alchemy instead of Flaming Weapon
I did a quick test (with the previous version) and both, Inertial Barrier and Carapace, did not stack.
DUHM and Adrenaline Rush being cumulative is a dream coming true, thanks.
Do I need to start a new game to update or can I just overwrite the current version?