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Average height of the races

Hello all,

Something I would like to know is if there's an official average height for each race and sub-race for FR. I've read about the races etc on the FR wiki, but not sure if it's all correct. I've also seen a couple of pictures depicting different races standing next to eachother but they seem off, as far as I've read in replies to them.

I would like to see, if one exist, a picture like this but with all the races or one for each race and its sub-races. Is there an official one with all the canon races and there respective heights?
http://www.3dnews.ru/documents/3708/elf_rase.jpg

I'm mostly interrested in the shorty races; halflings, gnomes and dwarves in respect to humans.

I have no experience from PnP, thus I've not read any handbooks.

(I did a forum search but couldn't find a thread with this topic)

Cheers,
//Skat.

JuliusBorisov

Comments

  • PK2748PK2748 Member Posts: 381
    You can download the entire 2nd edition game manual online fairly casually and that has the height, weight and lifespan of all the demihuman species/races.

  • wubblewubble Member Posts: 3,156
    From my 3.5 players handbook it's roughly:

    humans 5' - 6'
    dwarves 4' - 4'6"
    elves 4'6" - 5'6"
    gnomes 3' - 3'6"
    half elves 5' - 6'
    half orc 6' - 7'
    halflings 3'

    JuliusBorisovSmilingSword
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 10,932
    Wow, halflings are short.

    Gallowglass
  • SkatanSkatan Member Posts: 3,540
    edited November 2015

    Wow, halflings are short.

    That's one of the reasons I asked. True, this is a fantasy setting, but it's quite unrealistic that a halfling, no matter its strenght etc, could ever fell an ogre or even a tall, sturdy halforc.

    humans 5' - 6' = 152-183 cm.
    dwarves 4' - 4'6" = 122 - 140 cm.
    elves 4'6" - 5'6" = 140 - 171 cm.
    gnomes 3' - 3'6" = 91 - 110 cm.
    half elves 5' - 6' = 152-183 cm.
    half orc 6' - 7' = 183 - 213 cm.
    halflings 3' = 91 cm.

    I like to play shorties, especially dwarves, but I have to admit (is this herecy in a place like this?) that I prefer the interpretion of dwarves in WoW, where they aren't much shorter than humans, but alot broader. That would make it possible for gnomes and halflings to be somewhat taller as well but still be shorter than both dwarves and humans, but not so short as to make it childlike.

    I understand that halflings is of course a perfect name for a race that is half the size of a human and I believe that's fairly accurate to Tolkien's depiction of the hobbits as well. But I can't deny that I am a fan of "fantastical realism", meaning there has to be some kind of realism even in a fantasy setting (like I have spammed alot about in the "little things that annoy you"-thread). This means that I find it quite ridiulous if a halfling weilds anything bigger than a short sword one-handed (which was corrected in 3E IIRC).

    Also with elves I prefer the Tolkien version, where they are the tallest of the main races (humans, dwarves, elves) but slimmer. So you have human in the middle as the "average", dwarves as slightly shorter but broader and elves as slightly taller but slimmer.

    What are your thoughts about the sizes of the different races in FR?

  • jesterdesujesterdesu Member Posts: 373
    I like how they're shown in FR games. That said I'd make the starting attribute differences more pronounced, say 3 either direction.

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,732
    edited November 2015

    Wow, halflings are short.

    Now you know why they max out at 17 strength (and why they are so good at stealth) :)

    Aerakar
  • jesterdesujesterdesu Member Posts: 373
    elminster said:

    Wow, halflings are short.

    Now you know why they max out at 17 strength (and why they are so good at stealth) :)
    That a halfling loses just 1 strength to a human and 2 to a half orc seems odd to me.

  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 10,932
    @jesterdesu: It's actually a pretty big difference, since 17 Strength only gets you +1 to hit and damage. You have to bear in mind that the average Strength for a fighter in BG2 is about 18/150.

  • jesterdesujesterdesu Member Posts: 373
    Fully aware of what the attributes offer, and don't think plus 1 hit and damage seem so much considering the sizes of the races I mentioned.

  • SkatanSkatan Member Posts: 3,540
    edited November 2015
    PK2748 said:

    Skatan said:

    Wow, halflings are short.

    That's one of the reasons I asked. True, this is a fantasy setting, but it's quite unrealistic that a halfling, no matter its strenght etc, could ever fell an ogre or even a tall, sturdy halforc
    I'm 6'4" roughly. Chimpanzees are about 3'6" on average. I'm not wrestling a chimpanzee no matter what size difference there is between us! Lots of smaller predators take on much larger prey. Wolverines for example weigh 50 pounds and prey upon adult moose which can weigh up to 1,500 pounds and which routinely aggressively attack people. Yoda wasn't kidding when he said "Size matters not". Think about how Gnomes have no strength penalty at all and in half our size pack in the same raw muscle power. It's a lot like that chimpanzee or wolverine.
    This is interresting. I haven't really thought about it that way before since I consider all playable races similar in muscle density etc as humans in real life. It's true that some animals pack a much stronger punch even though they are smaller, like you mention here. But IMHO if that was true for ie halflings then they shouldn't be able to have as low STR as humans. If they indeed have higher muscle density like a schimpanzee they should have a higher min-STR.

    In 3E shorties get AC bonuses vs larger creatures, and that may be 'realistic', but then they should get a pretty hefty THAC0 (BAB) penalty cause the can't really reach above the waist of a human sized opponent effectively. It's these things that make it 'unrealistic' for me. Example, a halfling rogue tries to backstab a halforc standing more than twice its height. Where does it strike the halforc? The legs, the groin.. in the back? It sure as hell can't reach the throat or head.

    I know I am over-analyzing, but it's just the way that I am. I ponder things like this.

    @BelgarathMTH: Thanks. I've seen these pics before, and they do seem to scale well to the table of heights provided by @wubble. I guess I can use these as canon then.

  • jesterdesujesterdesu Member Posts: 373
    Muscle density is fair to consider. We know dwarves are supposed to be very strong and broad for their height. Halflings and gnomes though are quite slight.

  • SkatanSkatan Member Posts: 3,540

    @jesterdesu: It's actually a pretty big difference, since 17 Strength only gets you +1 to hit and damage. You have to bear in mind that the average Strength for a fighter in BG2 is about 18/150.

    I'm with @jesterdesu on this one, mainly because my question was more about FR rather than the BG saga's interpretation of the rules and there the difference in STR would be so much moee than just +1 dmg/THAC0 etc (very few fighters would be at 18:15 STR since it's only the very top percentile who reach that compared to BG where alot of NPC's have pretty amazing stats).

  • wubblewubble Member Posts: 3,156
    Skatan said:


    BelgarathMTH: Thanks. I've seen these pics before, and they do seem to scale well to the table of heights provided by wubble. I guess I can use these as canon then.

    they're defininitely canon. they're in the 3.5 players handbook.

    SkatanJuliusBorisovBelgarathMTH
  • jesterdesujesterdesu Member Posts: 373

    That lady-orc sure is flirty

    Wow I always imagined somebody would like orc ladies. Respect to you.

    If there were greater differences between the races then they wouldn't need to make such an odd show of 19, which gives very disproportionate benefits for an increase of 1 point.

    I like the 3.5 attributes better.

    Skatan
  • SkatanSkatan Member Posts: 3,540
    wubble said:

    Skatan said:


    BelgarathMTH: Thanks. I've seen these pics before, and they do seem to scale well to the table of heights provided by wubble. I guess I can use these as canon then.

    they're defininitely canon. they're in the 3.5 players handbook.
    OK thanks for the info!

    wubble
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 10,932
    @jesterdesu @Skatan: I was making a joke about people rolling high stat values in BG2, that the average fighter had 18/150 STR, which isn't even possible... I wasn't saying the average was 18/15.

    Skatanjesterdesu
  • SkatanSkatan Member Posts: 3,540

    @jesterdesu @Skatan: I was making a joke about people rolling high stat values in BG2, that the average fighter had 18/150 STR, which isn't even possible... I wasn't saying the average was 18/15.

    My bad then. I thought you were serious and that the exceptional STR score was a typo.

    jesterdesusemiticgod
  • jesterdesujesterdesu Member Posts: 373
    Me too. Your jokes are clearly too subtle for those without decent intelligence rolls :)

    semiticgodSkatan
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 10,932
    You can always buy Potions of Genius from your local temple, but I prefer looting them from the charred corpses of bandit mages.

    jesterdesu
  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,418
    Skatan said:


    I would like to see, if one exist, a picture like this but with all the races or one for each race and its sub-races. Is there an official one with all the canon races and there respective heights?
    http://www.3dnews.ru/documents/3708/elf_rase.jpg

    If I'm not mistaken that's a picture from Races of Faerun 3.0E. So it's pretty official.
    But it depends on the edition.

    Skatan
  • AerakarAerakar Member Posts: 627
    I always like to consider my Halflings as 4' Tallfellows, so 1' taller than the 3' Lightfoots. This is closer to Dwarven height.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 9,762
    PK2748 said:

    Chimpanzees are about 3'6" on average.

    "Height" means very little here. Adult chimpanzees weigh about 150 lbs, which is quite similar to, if not more than, the mass of adult humans in non-obese populations. And more of chimps' mass is in their arms, which are the part of them that are substantially stronger than humans.

    All of which is to say I never put much stock in the base player's guides' descriptions of demihumans' height and weight. I think the idea of "elves=5', dwarves=4', halflings=3' is more for illustrative purposes and was not well-thought-out as an exact description. A 3'-tall halfling would have 1/8th the mass of a 6'-tall human... not half! And that is quite unlike chimpanzees. A halfling or gnome with 1/8 the mass of a human should physically not be able to have the same STR as a human in the 90th percentile (17).

    I role-play something like this:
    - humans average 5'8", ~160 lbs.
    - elves average 5'3", ~125 lbs.
    - dwarves average 4'8", ~160 lbs.
    - halflings/gnomes average 4'3", ~90 lbs.

    SkatanAerakarJuliusBorisov
  • SkatanSkatan Member Posts: 3,540
    Insightful @subtledoctor, I agree. It was exactly these kind of discussions I was hoping for when posting this topic! I'm glad to see I'm not the only one thinking about it that way, and especially for the shorty races.

    Aerakar
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