here in Germany Christmas is hardly a Christian Holiday anymore. A lot of Atheists and Agnostics who grew up with it still celebrate it out of pure tradition.
Even among my 'Christian' friends, it is seen more as a sales opportunity and a chance to not go to work. Oh, they will say loads of 'Christian' type things, but at the end of the day they are all about the time off and the chance to piss off the inlaws.
As I am organising the nativity this year, Christmas has come officially early for me (we started practise in November)
Christmas is a pagan thing. Christmas trees have nothing to do with any middle east religion, and have more to do druidism and reflects the habit of knotting ribbon on trees at sacred sites (oddly still practised around where I live!)
Easter is the biggest celebration for Christians. However I believe a sobriety surrounds it. The lynching of the Yuletide on the other hand has always been 'a bit of fun'
My wife and I always watch the Doctor Who Christmas Special. It helps that it's never on at the same time as the football/hockey game my sister-in-law insists on watching (and if it is, there's usually an extra TV available).
One Christmas, my family went to see a James Bond movie. It was great; the theater was mostly empty.
My family has a tradition of watching love actually.
Oh and we all jump on my mum's bed and annoy her while opening stockings and cards as soon as we wake up. I'm 19 and my brothers are both older than me, christmas is a time for children of all ages.
My wife and I always watch the Doctor Who Christmas Special. It helps that it's never on at the same time as the football/hockey game my sister-in-law insists on watching (and if it is, there's usually an extra TV available).
Really looking forward to the Christmas special this year.
I like the extra pay that holidays bring. I live only 14 mi/22.5 km from work, I already make pretty good money, and I don't mind getting out of the house to sit at my quiet desk earning time-and-a-half.
My only gripe about Christmas is that at some point--just once--I would like to do nothing about the holiday season whatsoever. No lights, no tree, no presents, no nativity, no songs, etc. I mentioned that to my wife once--she's here now, in case you forgot--but she didn't like the idea very much. Still...I am getting to the point where the holiday just doesn't mean anything to me--it's just another day to go to work for extra money or a extra day off work, that's all. I just don't see the point in it, given how ridiculous everything has become.
I did that once. But having grown up with a tree--even when it was just a tree with lights and ornaments, nothing else--I felt like my home was missing something. For my brother, it's the pine smell; for me, it's the act of plugging in the lights and just sitting in front of the glow. There's nothing spiritual or religious about it for me; it's entirely a nostalgia-based feeling, but it's one of the few traditions that I appreciate returning to, year after year.
Christmas stopped meaning much to me too for a time until kids came along and brought the magic back again. I'm with Tresset especially about the christmas music cutting off too fast after the 25th.
I say happy holidays sometimes and merry christmas sometimes as well. If i know the person celebrates something else i try to say happy whatever to them. If someone responds to my merry christmas with I celebrate x instead i happily say merry x to them. if someone gets insulted that i said merry christmas instead of something else then i think the problem is with them. The most important part to me is the wishing happiness on people, not the specific holiday or belief you celebrate.
The "war on christmas" stuff is overblown but i think both pro and con christmas arguing is more about attracting money and publicity for one's side than anything else. Demonizing the other side and turning every event into a crisis is a quick and easy road to donations and outrage but doesn't really add to the discussion or try to solve anything of course. I regret that the discussion has become needlessly antagonistic (like so much of our political discourse in the usa) with pro secular side using attack ads to disparage the beliefs of christians and trifling lawsuits to force people to change practices more for principle than to really serve any practical purpose. On the pro christian side there is resistance to allowing room to celebrate other beliefs during this time and nasty rhetoric that is decidedly not in line with what Jesus would do. Overall it's unfortunate that a time that should be about peace, happiness and love instead becomes stressful, belligerent, over-commercialized and depressing.
The "war on christmas" stuff is overblown but i think both pro and con christmas arguing is more about attracting money and publicity for one's side than anything else. Demonizing the other side and turning every event into a crisis is a quick and easy road to donations and outrage but doesn't really add to the discussion or try to solve anything of course. I regret that the discussion has become needlessly antagonistic (like so much of our political discourse in the usa) with pro secular side using attack ads to disparage the beliefs of christians and trifling lawsuits to force people to change practices more for principle than to really serve any practical purpose. On the pro christian side there is resistance to allowing room to celebrate other beliefs during this time and nasty rhetoric that is decidedly not in line with what Jesus would do. Overall it's unfortunate that a time that should be about peace, happiness and love instead becomes stressful, belligerent, over-commercialized and depressing.
Ah, religion. A rose by any other name.... wouldn't lead to killing, atrocities and generally being crappy to anyone and everyone that doesn't believe exactly as you do (and even some that do) in quite the same manner.
My immediate family likes to open our presents on Christmas Eve, then visit relatives on Christmas. My grandparents on both sides each have their own family gathering, and we go to one for lunch, and then leave and head to the other for dinner. I always eat well on Christmas, that's for sure!
MY Gripe about Christmas is the loss of simple Joy for a day of Family, Love, and Giving. I will not preach here... I could, but I choose to not. Setting religion aside ( I could wax religious all over this page) Why do people get so bent about being wished well ? Peace, Happiness, Merriness, Comfort, Joy: It is not like the term Merry Christmas is a Hex that will induce pustuals and boils. I do wish my friends that believe differently well on their Holidays. So why just why should some curmudgeon get their proverbial panties in a twist over Folks being friendly?
Have any of us actually seen someone get mad about a single person with good intentions wishing them merry Christmas? Because I've never seen it.
When trying to be nice, I think it's important to ask oneself, "What would I say if this person asked me not to do this 'nice' thing?" The answer really should be, "Oh sorry, I didn't know you wouldn't appreciate that." If it's more along the lines of, "F*** you, b****! I was giving you a compliment!" then that's a problem.
@joluv I have seen it and no the person was not a friend. I suppose I should out myself I am a American of the Southern States, Texan to be exact. WE bless a lot of hearts and Merry Christmas random strangers, I have in the past few years seen people complain about this practice, this is why I brought it up.
It seemed like you're annoying your friends on purpose: "I do wish my friends that believe differently well on their Holidays. So why just why should some curmudgeon get their proverbial panties in a twist over Folks being friendly?" As in you know they don't want to hear about it but you still do it.
It seemed like you're annoying your friends on purpose: "I do wish my friends that believe differently well on their Holidays. So why just why should some curmudgeon get their proverbial panties in a twist over Folks being friendly?" As in you know they don't want to hear about it but you still do it.
No dear, you may have misinterpreted what I was saying:
I shall clarify my statement. My friends that are other faiths get greetings for their Holidays as in: My Jewish friends get a Happy Hanukkah, I give Winter Solstice greetings, and Happy Kwanzaa for those who celebrate those. My friends where not my reference point for the panty twist people, Generally my group of friends can respect each other enough to not bash or force religion, and if someone wants to talk religion we can with out getting upset ( usually).
I was referring to A Merry Christmas Greeting on the street, in the Mall, in line while waiting, while holding a door open for some one, and a random person ( not the one who was spoken to) in the vicinity being upset enough to Loudly complain ( as in louder than the original greeting was spoken).
I suppose it is like people on the other side getting upset over a plain red cup, I think and feel a lot of people actively search for reasons to be offended especially around The Holiday Season, and try to spread discontent instead of Joy.
My biggest gripe about christmas? That would no doubtly be my thin apartment walls. Each year the yelling of the neighour's aggravated toddlers about not getting their dream presents is disturbing to my demeanor.
Well, that and the non-stop christmas songs onslaught which air on EvErY SiNglE RaDiO ChanNeL.... AAHHRHHGHHH!!!!
I suppose it is like people on the other side getting upset over a plain red cup, I think and feel a lot of people actively search for reasons to be offended especially around The Holiday Season, and try to spread discontent instead of Joy.
It seemed like you're annoying your friends on purpose: "I do wish my friends that believe differently well on their Holidays. So why just why should some curmudgeon get their proverbial panties in a twist over Folks being friendly?" As in you know they don't want to hear about it but you still do it.
No dear, you may have misinterpreted what I was saying:
I shall clarify my statement. My friends that are other faiths get greetings for their Holidays as in: My Jewish friends get a Happy Hanukkah, I give Winter Solstice greetings, and Happy Kwanzaa for those who celebrate those. My friends where not my reference point for the panty twist people, Generally my group of friends can respect each other enough to not bash or force religion, and if someone wants to talk religion we can with out getting upset ( usually).
I was referring to A Merry Christmas Greeting on the street, in the Mall, in line while waiting, while holding a door open for some one, and a random person ( not the one who was spoken to) in the vicinity being upset enough to Loudly complain ( as in louder than the original greeting was spoken).
I suppose it is like people on the other side getting upset over a plain red cup, I think and feel a lot of people actively search for reasons to be offended especially around The Holiday Season, and try to spread discontent instead of Joy.
Yes, I got that. I was just saying it seemed like were being a c**t, or that your comment could be read like that.
I have a Sister who is an easily offended person, it can be painful being in public with her. I love her, but come on she got upset over a taco being name a BFT " Big Freekin' Taco" , just a few days ago she actually called the companies corporate office over this after Loudly complaining and refusing to order it. I on the other hand am not offended and ordered it for my self, because I Like the item.
It was a most wonderful time of the year spreading Joy that way.
Well, that was ugly enough that I feel the need to clarify what I said before. I was trying to reference the phenomenon of men getting furious when their catcalls are rebuked as a clumsy comparison for the insistence that someone must accept a holiday greeting. Sorry if I contributed to dragging down the conversation or somehow made it look like I thought sexist name-calling was OK.
I was most likely mid post when you posted. Had I not been I may have reacted, then again maybe not, but you know at my age, I have been called worse. It has just been a long time since someone was brave enough to do so to my face.
Now if you talked bad about my husband or kids.... then it would be on.
As far as it goes, comparing traditional (denominational) holiday greetings to cat-calls made by construction workers, I think there is somewhat of a disconnect (or there should be). One is meant (in most instances) to convey good will and happy tidings. The other generally is intended (either by design or simple ignorance) as demeaning and degrading. That would be analogous to comparing "Hi, how are you" to something derogatory like calling someone a racist name. While both will (on occasion) generate negative feelings, I think that the recipient in that example is more to blame than the speaker (in most instances).
I think that if someone actually FELT that way about some variations of 'Happy holidays', they've missed the point entirely, at least based on the way I have always ever meant it. I do get that people will sometimes inflate the 'Slight' to that level (for any number of reasons including stress and their own biases), but again that is often times more about the recipient and their state of mind than the speaker.
I may be naive here but I would HOPE that the vast and significant majority of 'Well wishers' actually MEAN well and are simply just so wrapped up in themselves as to not 'remember' (or maybe even know) what denomination (or lack thereof) the person they are speaking with may be.
I'd throw out another aspect though. Being a single guy at the holidays, and with very few living relatives remaining and even fewer friends, I can understand how lonely and depressing the holidays can be. Being constantly confronted with well wishers and a plethora of people all with families and friends to share the holidays with and being inundated with their constant reminders of what they have and you do not can bring a person down. They basically show what you may be missing and pretty much be like pouring salt into an open wound.
While I would hope that anyone IN that situation (and I find myself there this year in particular), would understand that the INTENT is not to make the individual feel the keen loss of that sort of familial feeling, I can understand how it may not always feel that way. However again this is an instance where the actual problem is in the perception of the recipient rather than (again in most instances) any intentional slight meant by the speaker.
I think (and I stated this above) by and large, people are so wrapped up in their own lives (and dramas and other issues) most particularly during the holidays that any 'Slight' is quite probably because people aren't thinking about anyone beyond their own noses. While this is indeed contrary to the supposed intent of the season, it is often more true than not.
Comments
Christmas is a pagan thing. Christmas trees have nothing to do with any middle east religion, and have more to do druidism and reflects the habit of knotting ribbon on trees at sacred sites (oddly still practised around where I live!)
Easter is the biggest celebration for Christians. However I believe a sobriety surrounds it. The lynching of the Yuletide on the other hand has always been 'a bit of fun'
Bah...
Humbug.
That jab at the resident hatter hasn't gone unnoticed...
I am curious!
As for traditions, we open present on the 24th, ha!
One Christmas, my family went to see a James Bond movie. It was great; the theater was mostly empty.
Oh and we all jump on my mum's bed and annoy her while opening stockings and cards as soon as we wake up. I'm 19 and my brothers are both older than me, christmas is a time for children of all ages.
My only gripe about Christmas is that at some point--just once--I would like to do nothing about the holiday season whatsoever. No lights, no tree, no presents, no nativity, no songs, etc. I mentioned that to my wife once--she's here now, in case you forgot--but she didn't like the idea very much. Still...I am getting to the point where the holiday just doesn't mean anything to me--it's just another day to go to work for extra money or a extra day off work, that's all. I just don't see the point in it, given how ridiculous everything has become.
I say happy holidays sometimes and merry christmas sometimes as well. If i know the person celebrates something else i try to say happy whatever to them. If someone responds to my merry christmas with I celebrate x instead i happily say merry x to them. if someone gets insulted that i said merry christmas instead of something else then i think the problem is with them. The most important part to me is the wishing happiness on people, not the specific holiday or belief you celebrate.
The "war on christmas" stuff is overblown but i think both pro and con christmas arguing is more about attracting money and publicity for one's side than anything else. Demonizing the other side and turning every event into a crisis is a quick and easy road to donations and outrage but doesn't really add to the discussion or try to solve anything of course. I regret that the discussion has become needlessly antagonistic (like so much of our political discourse in the usa) with pro secular side using attack ads to disparage the beliefs of christians and trifling lawsuits to force people to change practices more for principle than to really serve any practical purpose. On the pro christian side there is resistance to allowing room to celebrate other beliefs during this time and nasty rhetoric that is decidedly not in line with what Jesus would do. Overall it's unfortunate that a time that should be about peace, happiness and love instead becomes stressful, belligerent, over-commercialized and depressing.
When trying to be nice, I think it's important to ask oneself, "What would I say if this person asked me not to do this 'nice' thing?" The answer really should be, "Oh sorry, I didn't know you wouldn't appreciate that." If it's more along the lines of, "F*** you, b****! I was giving you a compliment!" then that's a problem.
I shall clarify my statement. My friends that are other faiths get greetings for their Holidays as in: My Jewish friends get a Happy Hanukkah, I give Winter Solstice greetings, and Happy Kwanzaa for those who celebrate those. My friends where not my reference point for the panty twist people, Generally my group of friends can respect each other enough to not bash or force religion, and if someone wants to talk religion we can with out getting upset ( usually).
I was referring to A Merry Christmas Greeting on the street, in the Mall, in line while waiting, while holding a door open for some one, and a random person ( not the one who was spoken to) in the vicinity being upset enough to Loudly complain ( as in louder than the original greeting was spoken).
I suppose it is like people on the other side getting upset over a plain red cup, I think and feel a lot of people actively search for reasons to be offended especially around The Holiday Season, and try to spread discontent instead of Joy.
Well, that and the non-stop christmas songs onslaught which air on EvErY SiNglE RaDiO ChanNeL.... AAHHRHHGHHH!!!!
I have a Sister who is an easily offended person, it can be painful being in public with her. I love her, but come on she got upset over a taco being name a BFT " Big Freekin' Taco" , just a few days ago she actually called the companies corporate office over this after Loudly complaining and refusing to order it. I on the other hand am not offended and ordered it for my self, because I Like the item.
It was a most wonderful time of the year spreading Joy that way.
I was most likely mid post when you posted. Had I not been I may have reacted, then again maybe not, but you know at my age, I have been called worse. It has just been a long time since someone was brave enough to do so to my face.
Now if you talked bad about my husband or kids.... then it would be on.
Have a Blessed Day
I think that if someone actually FELT that way about some variations of 'Happy holidays', they've missed the point entirely, at least based on the way I have always ever meant it. I do get that people will sometimes inflate the 'Slight' to that level (for any number of reasons including stress and their own biases), but again that is often times more about the recipient and their state of mind than the speaker.
I may be naive here but I would HOPE that the vast and significant majority of 'Well wishers' actually MEAN well and are simply just so wrapped up in themselves as to not 'remember' (or maybe even know) what denomination (or lack thereof) the person they are speaking with may be.
I'd throw out another aspect though. Being a single guy at the holidays, and with very few living relatives remaining and even fewer friends, I can understand how lonely and depressing the holidays can be. Being constantly confronted with well wishers and a plethora of people all with families and friends to share the holidays with and being inundated with their constant reminders of what they have and you do not can bring a person down. They basically show what you may be missing and pretty much be like pouring salt into an open wound.
While I would hope that anyone IN that situation (and I find myself there this year in particular), would understand that the INTENT is not to make the individual feel the keen loss of that sort of familial feeling, I can understand how it may not always feel that way. However again this is an instance where the actual problem is in the perception of the recipient rather than (again in most instances) any intentional slight meant by the speaker.
I think (and I stated this above) by and large, people are so wrapped up in their own lives (and dramas and other issues) most particularly during the holidays that any 'Slight' is quite probably because people aren't thinking about anyone beyond their own noses. While this is indeed contrary to the supposed intent of the season, it is often more true than not.