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Please, no more Modernisms in Bg series!

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  • LifatLifat Member Posts: 353
    edited January 2016
    @Winterisle: I think it is wonderful that you have favorites. This is mostly a single player game, so whatever you want to do in your single player campaign is your bussiness only. When it comes to multiplayer the same rule applies, but in this case you simply need to discuss it with your group up front.

    The discussion in this thread isn't about what we like and dislike, but rather whether or not Beamdog made a break with the feel of BG when they made their enhanced edition characters. I think there's been sufficient evidence that, at least when it comes to modernisms, the EE characters are right on track.
    Personally, I get a kick out of it whenever I recognize some kind of reference in the game.

    BelgarathMTHthe_spyder
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    "Butt-kicking for goodness" seems very modern to me. I can't find any references to "butt-kicking" prior to about 1965.

    BelgarathMTHrorikon
  • WinterisleWinterisle Member Posts: 111
    @Lifat I think that they did make a break. A lot of older characters have some modern expressions, just like Fardragon has said about Minsc, but it somehow blends into the rest of the game. I think that Neera or even some new quest-related characters, like Kryll don't do this at all and that their expressions and general tone just doesn't fit in with the old characters.

    sarevok57
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511

    @Lifat I think that they did make a break. A lot of older characters have some modern expressions, just like Fardragon has said about Minsc, but it somehow blends into the rest of the game. I think that Neera or even some new quest-related characters, like Kryll don't do this at all and that their expressions and general tone just doesn't fit in with the old characters.

    The original characters spoke "modern" American English - in 1998. You are simply seeing 16 years worth of linguistic drift. That's a long time for teenspeak.

    Metalloman
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,381
    Bg is timeless, not medieval.

    kcwiseWinterislelolien
  • AstroBryGuyAstroBryGuy Member Posts: 3,415
    Fardragon said:

    @Lifat I think that they did make a break. A lot of older characters have some modern expressions, just like Fardragon has said about Minsc, but it somehow blends into the rest of the game. I think that Neera or even some new quest-related characters, like Kryll don't do this at all and that their expressions and general tone just doesn't fit in with the old characters.

    The original characters spoke "modern" American English - in 1998. You are simply seeing 16 years worth of linguistic drift. That's a long time for teenspeak.
    Except Dynaheir. She spoke faux-Shakespearean English. :smile:

    elminsterlolien
  • DetroitRedWings25DetroitRedWings25 Member Posts: 241
    edited January 2016
    Yeah running into peter north in a cave, who proceeds to make a series of sexual innuendos throughout your encounter makes complete sense and fits the setting, but running into an elf with a hippie accent now that's just cheeseburger throwing lightsabre wielding nonsense....

    Text edited. Keep it PG-13, folks. --Dee

    Post edited by Dee on
    Spjuv3rnMortiannaCaradoc
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511

    Fardragon said:

    @Lifat I think that they did make a break. A lot of older characters have some modern expressions, just like Fardragon has said about Minsc, but it somehow blends into the rest of the game. I think that Neera or even some new quest-related characters, like Kryll don't do this at all and that their expressions and general tone just doesn't fit in with the old characters.

    The original characters spoke "modern" American English - in 1998. You are simply seeing 16 years worth of linguistic drift. That's a long time for teenspeak.
    Except Dynaheir. She spoke faux-Shakespearean English. :smile:
    Really? Maybe it's because I'm British, but she always sounded American to me.

    lolien
  • NhullNhull Member Posts: 37
    At the end of the day here, saying BG didnt have 'modernisms' is false. The Original content is filled with it, and its totally fine.

  • LifatLifat Member Posts: 353
    edited January 2016
    HAHAHAHAAHAHAHA! That edit by @Dee is priceless! I heart you Dee!

  • AstroBryGuyAstroBryGuy Member Posts: 3,415
    Fardragon said:

    Fardragon said:

    @Lifat I think that they did make a break. A lot of older characters have some modern expressions, just like Fardragon has said about Minsc, but it somehow blends into the rest of the game. I think that Neera or even some new quest-related characters, like Kryll don't do this at all and that their expressions and general tone just doesn't fit in with the old characters.

    The original characters spoke "modern" American English - in 1998. You are simply seeing 16 years worth of linguistic drift. That's a long time for teenspeak.
    Except Dynaheir. She spoke faux-Shakespearean English. :smile:
    Really? Maybe it's because I'm British, but she always sounded American to me.
    Well, I was referring to the use of Ye Olde Butcherede Englishe rather than the accent affected by the actress (which was... I cannot describe it...).

    BelgarathMTH
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    edited January 2016

    Fardragon said:

    Fardragon said:

    @Lifat I think that they did make a break. A lot of older characters have some modern expressions, just like Fardragon has said about Minsc, but it somehow blends into the rest of the game. I think that Neera or even some new quest-related characters, like Kryll don't do this at all and that their expressions and general tone just doesn't fit in with the old characters.

    The original characters spoke "modern" American English - in 1998. You are simply seeing 16 years worth of linguistic drift. That's a long time for teenspeak.
    Except Dynaheir. She spoke faux-Shakespearean English. :smile:
    Really? Maybe it's because I'm British, but she always sounded American to me.
    Well, I was referring to the use of Ye Olde Butcherede Englishe rather than the accent affected by the actress (which was... I cannot describe it...).
    It sounded like an attempt at Eastern European, to go with Minsc. Which I put down to word association - Minsc from Minsk. Which is in Belarus.

    The "buchery" I put down to speaking in a foreign language in which she wasn't fully fluent, rather than any attempt to sound archaic.

    No reason it should be a real world accent though. I find the French, Spanish and Italian accents in Dragon Age quite off-putting.

  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    Having been watching Beowulf: Return to the Shieldlands, I've discovered that the current trope is that everyone in Genericfantasyland(TM) speaks with a Northern (English) accent!

    AstroBryGuy
  • WardWard Member Posts: 1,305
    edited February 2016
    Haven't read the whole topic but, there's a line between anachronism and self parodying. Yes, there are many anachronisms, but it doesn't change the perception of the original game from being a badass medieval world of castles and maidens and honour. There are anachronisms, but they are charming and well placed.

    Overt modern dialogue options should be avoided. If any of you played Neverwinter Nights, there is no 'faux Shakespearean' language, but the writing and chosen words avoided 'short hand' and was not casual. This style, with good writing, does just fine and fits well.

    Also, whoever said that the writing in BG was good, because the guys at Bioware were doctors. They are clearly intelligent and highly proficient at writing, but their medical background did not make them good writers. It is incorrect to assume that doctoring, lawyering and engineereringering are the pursuits of the highly intelligent, and that 'the arts', athleticism and 'trades' are lesser. This is a cultural, societal assumption which is wrong and dates back to the 19th century folks. Those things aren't 'extras' on top of the 'serious' pursuits of... accountancy and... pencil pushing. They all require equally relevant though different forms of understanding (intelligence). The makers were just good at everything I guess :wink: The pen and sword are just as mighty!

    But here are some examples of modern speech in BG:

    1. Bandit voice ('Californian surfer dude')
    "Sowh I kicked him in the head til' he was dead, nyahuhahuhah!"
    "I hate them Flamin' Fist pansies!"
    2. Flaming Fist Soldiers (Texan sherrif anyone?)
    "I AAMM THUH LAWH!"
    "AAHH SERVE THUH FLAMIN' FESSTT!"
    "EVERYEH CRYMME, MUST BEEE PUNISHED!"
    3. Assassin dude (Aussie m8)
    "Sorry friend, but yeu've got a date, down unda!"
    4. Imoen (casual Tomboy)

    Jairyanna
  • AstroBryGuyAstroBryGuy Member Posts: 3,415
    Fardragon said:

    Having been watching Beowulf: Return to the Shieldlands, I've discovered that the current trope is that everyone in Genericfantasyland(TM) speaks with a Northern (English) accent!

    Lots of planets have a north!

    FardragonNonnahswriterHudzyrorikon
  • BigfishBigfish Member Posts: 368
    Ward said:


    But here are some examples of modern speech in BG:


    I'd write most of those up to the ...artful... choice of voice direction. Like a lot of lines for Xzar feel like they stuck Frank Welker in a sound booth and said "Just do whatever". To an extent, it captures the table top feel of over acted characters with weird accents, and that's totally fine. The problem is less with carefully (or clumsily) lifted lines like "I'm not in danger, Dorn. I am the danger." and more with this dreadful idea that every quest name has to be a fricking pun (thanks WoW) or things along the lines of "I can haz +4 sword?"

    WardMortiannaValamirCleaver
  • ValamirCleaverValamirCleaver Member Posts: 184
    edited February 2016
    Ward said:

    2. Flaming Fist Soldiers (Texan sherrif anyone?)
    "I AAMM THUH LAWH!"
    "AAHH SERVE THUH FLAMIN' FESSTT!"
    "EVERYEH CRYMME, MUST BEEE PUNISHED!"

    Texan sheriff?! You're that myopic? You've never heard of Judge Dredd?... The character originated in the British comic 2000AD.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judge_Dredd

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_AD_(comics)



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_The_Law_(song)

    http://www.metrolyrics.com/i-am-the-law-lyrics-anthrax.html

    Nonnahswriterillathid
  • KilivitzKilivitz Member Posts: 1,459
    I had never met anyone who gets offended when someone doesn't recognize a Judge Dredd reference...

    ...but I'm not surprised I did so on these forums in particular.

    Ward
  • WardWard Member Posts: 1,305
    Judging by the number of references he provided, I did not just insult Judge Dredd. I insulted his idol. His hero. His bae.

    But I am an Aussie and have been sheltered from many of these things. It's my fault. I didn't say m888 or crikey enough to give it away.

    The Flaming Fist dude does sound like a texan sheriff tho.

  • ValamirCleaverValamirCleaver Member Posts: 184
    I don't recall claiming I was offended, let alone posting a passive-aggressive crying face whining that, "yes my feelings hurt :cry: " when called out on one's poorly thought out, hyperbolic ignorance...
    Ward said:

    yes my feelings hurt :cry:

    You're online, it's not that difficult to quickly doublecheck, right?...
    https://www.google.com/#q="I+am+the+law"

    While Texas has 254 counties, and therefore 254 sheriffs, how many have you heard speak in person?

  • simplessimples Member Posts: 540
    there's just something about this thread that really brings out the worst in people

    Wardrorikon
  • WardWard Member Posts: 1,305
    edited February 2016
    Ahh beauty, spaghetti western! Memorized that terminology scroll. Dee is correct in his evaluation.

    The purpose of a past-time or hobby of any type, like Baldur's Gate and subsequently these forums, is as a supportive measure in one's overall disposition, enrichment of their imagination, mind and health, and improving their skills/abilities. If those very things are your job, even better!

    So much like I enjoy building wood/metal props, we come here for the above reasons. There is no room in my hobbies for unpleasant conversation with unpleasant people.

    I have not displayed behaviour which was indirect, deceitful or disguised malice (passive aggression). I have giggled at my own replies though, which were intended to diffuse and avoid reciprocating the rudeness I was shown here. I would not be so rude to others in return.

    Now, as Dee has explained my intent, it is clear my 'hyperbolic ignorance' on the subject of Judge Dredd was not malicious or spiteful. I have justified myself where unnecessary and now I leave this thread.

  • BillyYankBillyYank Member Posts: 2,769
    Just to throw my hat into the ring here, I'm a big fan of Judge Dredd and 2000 AD. I still have a pile of the old newsprint tabloid-sized comic books from the '80s.

    But that said, and even though I recognized the Judge Dredd catch phrases, the thick Southern US accent has always made me think of the FF as parodies of Southern lawmen. I never thought of Texas, though, I was much more reminded of Dukes of Hazard or Smoky and the Bandit than spaghetti westerns.

    I always pictured Dredd more as a New York or New Jersey cop. I thought Stallone's portrayal was spot-on.

    ValamirCleaver
  • ValamirCleaverValamirCleaver Member Posts: 184
    edited February 2016
    Ward said:

    Judging by the number of references he provided, I did not just insult Judge Dredd. I insulted his idol. His hero. His bae.

    Ward said:

    I have not displayed behaviour which was indirect, deceitful or disguised malice (passive aggression). I have giggled at my own replies though, which were intended to diffuse and avoid reciprocating the rudeness I was shown here. I would not be so rude to others in return.

    O RLY? Reads like someone is talking out of both sides of his mouth in a maladroit, ham-fisted attempt to save face...



    I was willing to drop the subject, but you & your buddy @Kilivitz decided to stir the pot again; which is why I'm pointing out your inconsistencies yet again. If you truly want to put this subject to rest, then do so & so will I.

    @BillyYank is correct, Judge Dredd is set in Mega-City One, a post-apocalyptic New York. Smokey and the Bandit & Moonrunners/The Dukes of Hazzard is set in Georgia.

  • KilivitzKilivitz Member Posts: 1,459
    Dear @ValamirCleaver: It was not my intent to make you the butt of a joke. I was merely amused by your dedication to providing info on Judge Dredd, mostly because I would probably have done the same. My sarcastic remarks are hit and miss and should never be taken personally. Please accept my apologies.

    ValamirCleaverlolien
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 2,147
    My twopennyworth to the discussion.

    The ee npc's intrude far too much into MY game, MY fantasy. And because they annoy, their speech patterns/language are anaylased overmuch to back up the argument.

    Neera, I try and avoid the show down between her and the red wizards (obviously impossible eventually) so when she comes out with,
    "Get away from her you witches"
    it's like nails down a blackboard.

    Is it what she says, her accent, her speech patterns?
    Or is it that as a player, you are forced to listen?

    Then to follow it up with the cut scene and,
    "Aww come on, who tips water barrels all over the street"
    Nobody cares, we slosh through sewers for Chrissake and I am desperate to raise enough money to rescue my sister from a crazy, sadistic monster.
    RPG, it's on the box.


    And worst of all, the lines are not funny, not endearing (Alora who's been mentioned), not sarcastic, and they don't flatter the player mostly because they are not clever or witty.

    Simply bad writing.


  • ValamirCleaverValamirCleaver Member Posts: 184
    Neera got forced into your party?...

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