I'm pretty upset they delayed the release of the game by two months and waited to let us know about it a mere 4 days before launch.
However, I'm not getting mad at people who are okay with the delay. I think most people are pretty bummed but are choosing to not let it ruin their day. There's something to be said with having a healthy outlook.
I totally respect your desire to get a refund. Honestly I'm thinking I might try and get one myself simply because I don't like having money out there for something I'm not getting back. I only pre-ordered last Monday. Attacking people and calling them "apologists" for trying to view the delay in a healthy, positive way is as morally reprehensible (or more so) than anything Overhaul did or didn't do.
I would agree with you to a certain extent, however, I found that there a is a lack of outrage. People need to be held accountable for their actions, and if the majority is willing to let things slide, then how can Overhaul be held accountable. Like I said previously, the reason given is that the game needs more polish. Coming to a conclusion like this 4 days before launch is negligence. Professional companies have professional expectations and should be held to professional standards. I want people to hold Overhaul to a higher standard than they are holding them to now. Excusing such unprofessional behavior is, really, inexcusable hence the apologist tag.
With regard to the proper channels, that really should have been done at least a month ago, if not more. My opinion of Overhaul has been lowered dramatically.
Frankly, what it comes down to, I don't know how we can expect a company like this to create BG3. If they struggle with a remake, how can they succeed with a brand new endeavor? I sincerely doubt their abilities as a group of professionals.
The mistake they made was in setting an official release date at all. This should have been an "It's done when it's done situation." But they needed the money from pre-orders to pay the bills in the meantime. It's an imperfect situation to be sure. But it's just a game and it hasn't been canceled, just delayed. I'm not apologizing. I just have a little perspective.
Treyolen is right. They simply should not have published a release date.
The mistake they made was in setting an official release date at all. This should have been an "It's done when it's done situation." But they needed the money from pre-orders to pay the bills in the meantime. It's an imperfect situation to be sure. But it's just a game and it hasn't been canceled, just delayed. I'm not apologizing. I just have a little perspective.
I doubt they "needed" the money from the pre-purchases. If anything they were opened to gauge the interest of people in BGEE.
@verdegreen Believe me - people are angry about this, or are going to be when they find out. The thing is that, sure, I'd rather have a good game in two months than a buggy one now, but it's not really a valid point to use against you, or anyone who's upset. We have all trusted Beamdog, trusted the fact that they would be able to release a fully functional BGEE the 18th, just like they promised. There is no excuse for not being able to do that.
The thing that happens now is that everyone reacts the way they want - and then the ones who are left will keep waiting. You'll most certainly get your money back if you want, but don't expect to cause some kind of riot here. Remember that this forum is swarming with BG fanatics. We have waited for more than a decade. It makes two extra months seem laughable.
Our delay is 100% the fault of Penny Arcade. They advised us against shipping against Borderlands 2 in the comic, so we listened ;-)
Twitter reveals the non-PR reason. They didn't plan a good release date, realized their mistake too late, and blamed it on polish, bugs, etc, after they secured the customer's money. PR that people are using as an excuse to be apologists for.
BTW, the game wasn't announced a decade ago, and while people were hoping for something, it wasn't this.
We'll all get a cool new forum icons to compensate the pre-order BS.
I want people to hold Overhaul to a higher standard than they are holding them to now. Excusing such unprofessional behavior is, really, inexcusable hence the apologist tag.
With regard to the proper channels, that really should have been done at least a month ago, if not more. My opinion of Overhaul has been lowered dramatically.
Treyolen is right. They simply should not have published a release date.
I don't think you're getting it. Perhaps they should not have published a release date, but obviously when they did, they had every expectation that they'd be able to complete the game in time. As it grew closer, it became obvious that they could not. At that time, they had to communicate that information to their business partners, who had to clear it through legal channels, decide on a new release date, how to word an announcement, and approve that announcement. That takes time. A month ago, they may have still believed they could get it done. We don't know that but the point is that Beamdog has no incentive to sit on this information. That is why it makes no sense at all to flip out and assume that the company is unprofessional for announcing this in the manner that they did. This isn't an issue where they released a broken game and should be held to a higher standard. They chose NOT to release a broken game and had an unfortunate delay in communicating that to their customers.
It's not that big of a deal and there's no point to prove here, nor any lesson for them to learn. It's simply one of those things that sucks when dealing with complex business arrangements. They're slow.
http://penny-arcade.com/2012/09/07 is the comic site. Read the news about how they advise Overhaul to push back the release date not to conflict with Borderlands 2.
To be honest, I bought the game because I think it's worth supporting. If I wanted only to play it, I would just torrent it a day or two after release anyway. 3 months later, I'm still going to want to support it. Only now I'm going to be supporting a better game. Oh man, I'm so incensed. Three days after the 9-11 anniversary and this happens. It's deja vu all over again.
I don't think it is ever a good idea to be too passive as a consumer. I'm not going to demand a refund or anything, and I still look forward to an excellent product. I just want the developers and partners to get that they need to really deliver big time here, given the abysmal communications for this project. If the partners don't care about that there may be nothing I can do to change them. But I'm damn sure not going to be passive about it and act like it's alright.
I would agree with you to a certain extent, however, I found that there a is a lack of outrage. People need to be held accountable for their actions, and if the majority is willing to let things slide, then how can Overhaul be held accountable. Like I said previously, the reason given is that the game needs more polish. Coming to a conclusion like this 4 days before launch is negligence. Professional companies have professional expectations and should be held to professional standards. I want people to hold Overhaul to a higher standard than they are holding them to now. Excusing such unprofessional behavior is, really, inexcusable hence the apologist tag.
What should I be outraged about, that they didn't release a buggy, unfinished product?
How can you hold a software developer accountable, should everyone request a refund, pirate the game and do whatever it takes to cause the company to go bankrupt?
How do you know they only came to this conclusion today? Trent already said he had to get approval from WoTC to delay it. For all you know this has been in the process for weeks. The company either can announce a delay a month ago even if they were not sure if it actually would be delayed, or they can grind it out till the last second to try and finish it, what would you prefer? Maybe Tweet that it may not ship on time and cause an outrage, only to later find out it can ship on time? There are many variables.
Please define for me "Professional Standards". No matter how good you are at programming there are going to be bugs, no matter how much money you have there may not be enough and now matter how you announce a delay there are going to be people who complain.
How many 4 am nights has Trent Tweeted about recently? Should he of made them 6 am nights, or 8 am nights, just to ship you your game on time?
I don't see how there is a good excuse for a 2.5 month delay when they published the release date not much more than a month ago. The way I see it, there are 2 possibilities: scope creep or incompetent project management.
There's really no point in getting mad about it, because it's not going to change anything. So why shouldn't we look on the bright side of things rather than just getting bitter about it? The only thing that's going to do is make us MORE unhappy.
You are, again, ignoring the fact that it seems morally reprehensible to be delaying a mere four days before the scheduled release date.
Morally reprehensible? MORALLY?
You, sir, need a Potion of Perspective and a Helm of Cluevision. There's nothing morally right or wrong about this; it's a business decision. This isn't torturing roofies or spiking some college girl's unattended drink with kittens. This isn't evil, bad, wrong, or any other moral label you care to make.
Is it unprofessional to announce a release date, then fail to adhere to it? Yes, it is.
Is it disappointing not to get the game on Tuesday as announced? Yes, it is.
Is this a reason for a moral crusade? No. That would be overreacting.
If you're saying we can't hold developers accountable, then we as a generation of gamers are doomed. Defend them all you want, it wont change the fact that they promised something and then broke that promise only a few days before they had to meet their dues. Sure, if there was an earthquake, or a death or otherwise any other factor out of their control and management that influenced the date, I could understand and that would be that. But as it is right now, it only seems like poor management and franky, taking us, the consumer, for granted.
This does not bode well for their future developments. And yes, it's better to be forthright to the customer, if you think there will be a delay a month prior, then let us know a month prior.
This applies to every single aspect of life. If you order food which normally takes 20 minutes to cook and the chef thinks it will take another 20 minutes, he should let you know ASAP, not 18 minutes later when you are expecting your food. If you send some mail and expect delivery in 7 days but they think it will be delayed by 2 weeks, they should let you know ASAP, not 6 days later.
Please define for me "Professional Standards". No matter how good you are at programming there are going to be bugs, no matter how much money you have there may not be enough and now matter how you announce a delay there are going to be people who complain.
So what? why are you stating the obvious? of course people will complain, you make it seem like they're automatically wrong for doing so. As for "no matter how good you are" argument, this applies to everyone in the whole world, beamdog (EDIT: derp, i meant overhaul) is not a special snowflake that can use this as an excuse when everyone else can't.
that'd be like me saying "oh no matter how good you are at driving, there will always be car crashes" to the guy i just crashed into or "no matter how good you are at cooking food, there will always be food poisoning" to the guy now puking on my floor Sorry to break this news to you, but those are ridiculous arguments, they dont mean anything. Just because sometimes shit happens doesn't mean that you can just go "screw it all" and not give a crap, also doesn't mean you can brush off how the other person feels.
Professional standards is trying your best to meet your duty, expectations and promises and when that fails, maintaining goodwill and being forthright about what happened and be willing to make up for your mistake in a satisfactory manner.
Announcing the mistake (of an unfinished product) 4 days before judgement day, then trying to brush it off with a joke is not professional by any standard.
Now, to clarify, I am angry that there was a delay, but im waiting on more details to come out before I make a full judgement on the matter. If no details do come out, then i'll just take it as more poor professionalism.
i agree completely with @verdegreen its bull shit that they wait four days to push it off. this whole wait has been BS.
i remember when this site was just a baldurs gate logo with a countdown and thinking "wow this will be cool." then i got a webpage with one post that said they made a countdown website for something big. then i got an announcement for a remake instead of something spectacular (mind you i think the remake will be amazing but, come on we were all expecting a little more.) and then we waited half a year for the day that they promised would be the release and now they just make one post and say "sorry, we fucked up. our bad" oh well, guess we just have to accept the lies.
im sure most of you, if not all, are going to disagree with me on this but im really hurt. i was really looking forward to this. think about it deep down, you can all pretend your fine with this but honsetly everyones pissed. unforgivable
A delay like this should have been seen for weeks now, NOT when release was a mere four days away.
I have to agree with this part.
When Beamdog first announced its release date, I felt they were rushing things. I even thought to myself, I would be willing to wait a little while longer if it meant the game came out right.
I wouldn't have minded if they had postponed the release date a month or so ago, but instead it seems they continued to try to rush the project until the last minute, and only then decided it wasn't feasible to cram two-and-a-half month's worth of work into just a few days. Very disappointing all-around, IMO.
Comments
I would agree with you to a certain extent, however, I found that there a is a lack of outrage. People need to be held accountable for their actions, and if the majority is willing to let things slide, then how can Overhaul be held accountable. Like I said previously, the reason given is that the game needs more polish. Coming to a conclusion like this 4 days before launch is negligence. Professional companies have professional expectations and should be held to professional standards. I want people to hold Overhaul to a higher standard than they are holding them to now. Excusing such unprofessional behavior is, really, inexcusable hence the apologist tag.
With regard to the proper channels, that really should have been done at least a month ago, if not more. My opinion of Overhaul has been lowered dramatically.
Frankly, what it comes down to, I don't know how we can expect a company like this to create BG3. If they struggle with a remake, how can they succeed with a brand new endeavor? I sincerely doubt their abilities as a group of professionals. Treyolen is right. They simply should not have published a release date.
You guys seem a cult of a sort.
The thing that happens now is that everyone reacts the way they want - and then the ones who are left will keep waiting. You'll most certainly get your money back if you want, but don't expect to cause some kind of riot here. Remember that this forum is swarming with BG fanatics. We have waited for more than a decade. It makes two extra months seem laughable.
Our delay is 100% the fault of Penny Arcade. They advised us against shipping against Borderlands 2 in the comic, so we listened ;-)
Twitter reveals the non-PR reason. They didn't plan a good release date, realized their mistake too late, and blamed it on polish, bugs, etc, after they secured the customer's money. PR that people are using as an excuse to be apologists for.
BTW, the game wasn't announced a decade ago, and while people were hoping for something, it wasn't this.
We'll all get a cool new forum icons to compensate the pre-order BS.
It's not that big of a deal and there's no point to prove here, nor any lesson for them to learn. It's simply one of those things that sucks when dealing with complex business arrangements. They're slow.
http://penny-arcade.com/2012/09/07 is the comic site. Read the news about how they advise Overhaul to push back the release date not to conflict with Borderlands 2.
https://twitter.com/TrentOster is Trent's twitter.
The rest on this site is just PR BS.
I hope its a joke...it must be, he wouldn't tweet it if that were the case.
I'm pissed. I'll wait.
"How many 4 am nights has Trent Tweeted about recently? Should he of made them 6 am nights, or 8 am nights, just to ship you your game on time?"
Depends. What is his word worth to him?
You, sir, need a Potion of Perspective and a Helm of Cluevision. There's nothing morally right or wrong about this; it's a business decision. This isn't torturing roofies or spiking some college girl's unattended drink with kittens. This isn't evil, bad, wrong, or any other moral label you care to make.
Is it unprofessional to announce a release date, then fail to adhere to it? Yes, it is.
Is it disappointing not to get the game on Tuesday as announced? Yes, it is.
Is this a reason for a moral crusade? No. That would be overreacting.
If you're saying we can't hold developers accountable, then we as a generation of gamers are doomed.
Defend them all you want, it wont change the fact that they promised something and then broke that promise only a few days before they had to meet their dues. Sure, if there was an earthquake, or a death or otherwise any other factor out of their control and management that influenced the date, I could understand and that would be that. But as it is right now, it only seems like poor management and franky, taking us, the consumer, for granted.
This does not bode well for their future developments.
And yes, it's better to be forthright to the customer, if you think there will be a delay a month prior, then let us know a month prior.
This applies to every single aspect of life. If you order food which normally takes 20 minutes to cook and the chef thinks it will take another 20 minutes, he should let you know ASAP, not 18 minutes later when you are expecting your food.
If you send some mail and expect delivery in 7 days but they think it will be delayed by 2 weeks, they should let you know ASAP, not 6 days later.
also So what? why are you stating the obvious? of course people will complain, you make it seem like they're automatically wrong for doing so. As for "no matter how good you are" argument, this applies to everyone in the whole world, beamdog (EDIT: derp, i meant overhaul) is not a special snowflake that can use this as an excuse when everyone else can't.
that'd be like me saying "oh no matter how good you are at driving, there will always be car crashes" to the guy i just crashed into or "no matter how good you are at cooking food, there will always be food poisoning" to the guy now puking on my floor
Sorry to break this news to you, but those are ridiculous arguments, they dont mean anything. Just because sometimes shit happens doesn't mean that you can just go "screw it all" and not give a crap, also doesn't mean you can brush off how the other person feels.
Professional standards is trying your best to meet your duty, expectations and promises and when that fails, maintaining goodwill and being forthright about what happened and be willing to make up for your mistake in a satisfactory manner.
Announcing the mistake (of an unfinished product) 4 days before judgement day, then trying to brush it off with a joke is not professional by any standard.
Now, to clarify, I am angry that there was a delay, but im waiting on more details to come out before I make a full judgement on the matter. If no details do come out, then i'll just take it as more poor professionalism.
i remember when this site was just a baldurs gate logo with a countdown and thinking "wow this will be cool." then i got a webpage with one post that said they made a countdown website for something big. then i got an announcement for a remake instead of something spectacular (mind you i think the remake will be amazing but, come on we were all expecting a little more.) and then we waited half a year for the day that they promised would be the release and now they just make one post and say "sorry, we fucked up. our bad" oh well, guess we just have to accept the lies.
im sure most of you, if not all, are going to disagree with me on this but im really hurt. i was really looking forward to this. think about it deep down, you can all pretend your fine with this but honsetly everyones pissed. unforgivable
When Beamdog first announced its release date, I felt they were rushing things. I even thought to myself, I would be willing to wait a little while longer if it meant the game came out right.
I wouldn't have minded if they had postponed the release date a month or so ago, but instead it seems they continued to try to rush the project until the last minute, and only then decided it wasn't feasible to cram two-and-a-half month's worth of work into just a few days. Very disappointing all-around, IMO.