Well, you could say the specialization restriction and the dual classing restriction are disadvantages of the kit. But then again, the barbarian's description is a class description, not a kit description, so the whole situation is weird.
Strictly speaking Barbarian (as well as Sorcerer) doesn't belong in AD&D, they were borrowed from 3rd edition, where they are a separate class. So whether they're a kit or a class both make as much sense seeing as Barbarians are time travellers from a separate dimension!... or something.
Not true - Barbarian and Sorcerer were both in the original BG2 which predates 3rd Edition. IIRC, in PnP these were 'kits' in the original sense, but not part of the core Player's Handbook ruleset - you had to buy some of the many extra handbooks to get them.
The developer by commenting on the http://redmine.beamdog.com/issues/20791 said that moving a barbarian under the fighter class as a kit is an intended change. Elminster wrote some bug reports to get its descriptions (in the different games) updated accordingly. Reported description bugs internally as bug #20808 in BGEE and #20811 for BG2EE.
I would like to say that it's an off-topic talk If we want to continue discuss it, we should create a new thread.
@Silverstar*THANKFULLY*, I look at the Forgotten Realms games as 'per Forgotten Realms games and not as P&P/D&D/AD&D things (emm.. hope you get what I mean)
@GreenWarlock as for Barbarians dualing/multi-classing, I highly recommend "No-restrictions mod"
Not true - Barbarian and Sorcerer were both in the original BG2 which predates 3rd Edition. IIRC, in PnP these were 'kits' in the original sense, but not part of the core Player's Handbook ruleset - you had to buy some of the many extra handbooks to get them.
Ehhhh... it doesn't do anyone any good if we start arguing technicalities and nitpicking here, but BGII and 3rd edition both released the same year. Quite possibly Barbarian/Sorcerer were indeed in some handbook or other before 3E but the implementation of both in BGII is really similar at least.
BG2 and 3E were released at the same year and thus 3E has creept up all over BG2.
Now, I've no official source on this, but I deduct that people in WotC were concerned about having a major videogame coming out using a deprecated version of the rules. If BG2 wasn't a continuation of the campaign started by BG1, I'm pretty sure they would've forced Bioware to use 3E rules.
That doesn't mean there wasn't a compromise, though. The aesthetics of BG2 are much closer to 3E than AD&D (and thus much different from BG1). The new classes are exactly the new classes from 3E - Barbarian, Monk and Sorcerer. So while these classes already existed in some form or other, it's pretty safe to assume they're there as backports from 3E. And there's also the Half-Orc, introduced as a "core" playable race by 3E and added to BG2.
There's also evidence that they were added somewhat later in development. Think about it: none have kits (prior to BG:EE, that is) or unique strongholds - each gets shoehorned into the stronghold that would make the most sense for that particular class. Also, they're the only classes not represented by any NPC (again, prior to BG:EE and Rasaad).
So I don't think it really makes a difference whether the Barbarian is treated as a class or kit. I suppose the AD&D "purist" in me would prefer kit, but that wouldn't change the fact that the Monk and the Sorcerer and the Shaman and all the new EE kits based on 3E prestige classes are still there, so that ship has sailed a long time ago.
Alright, nobody has told me (yet) not to post more of my characters, so here I go again! For this post I pooled more of my BG2 and ToB characters.
This is Caitnegh the Skald, who seeks glory and adventure in the company of Mazzy, Keldorn, Anomen, Valygar, and Imoen. I think knighthood and chivalry was the theme when I came up with this party idea.
This dark and foreboding gentleman is Dusk the Dark Moon Monk, who goes around punching things solo.
Here's Fenora the Warsling Sniper (currently regular fighter, as I didn't get her custom kit into v2.0 yet), who travels the world doing good alongside Rasaad, Aerie, Neera, Jan Jansen, and Wilson the bear.
And this is Cara Sinclair, the Cleric/Ranger, whose party consists of Cernd, Mazzy, Hexxat, Neera, and Haer'Dalis. After playing this character, I think my favorite multiclass combination is the cleric/ranger - you get cleric spells and druid spells both, in the same priest scroll! How cool is that!
Half-orcs and Monks have been part of the game since the very very first Player's Handbook for 1st Edition AD&D. Barbarians were in first edition, as mentioned above, and even in the cartoon! For 2nd Edition they got their own handbook. It does look like you might be correct on Sorcerers though, a quick online search cannot nail down and confirmed pre-3rd Edition sightings.
I'm loving the Hero submissions, folks. Keep them coming! (although if you've already submitted more than ten, you might want to consider going for the Over-Achiever milestone next )
The discussion about Barbarians, Sorcerers, and Monks is an interesting one, but if it could be migrated to a separate thread that would be appreciated.
I'll update the totals tomorrow. I think we may have unlocked some things this weekend!
Half-orcs and Monks have been part of the game since the very very first Player's Handbook for 1st Edition AD&D. Barbarians were in first edition, as mentioned above, and even in the cartoon! For 2nd Edition they got their own handbook. It does look like you might be correct on Sorcerers though, a quick online search cannot nail down and confirmed pre-3rd Edition sightings.
As I said in my previous post: even though they were already present in some form or other, there's plenty of evidence to suggest these classes were implemented on BG2 primarily to bring it closer to 3E.
EDIT: sorry for going off-topic. I started replying before seeing Dee's request.
While I liked the Shaman I created a few days ago, I decided to give the Paladin another chance because I want to wield a certain two hander in BG2...
These stats are after reading two stat-increasing tomes. Not to strongest Paladin, but I was quite satisfied with the overall amount of attribute points.
I'm loving the Hero submissions, folks. Keep them coming! (although if you've already submitted more than ten, you might want to consider going for the Over-Achiever milestone next )
@Dee Oh but I haven't even started dredging up my BG1 saves yet! ... Fine, I get the hint.
Speaking of the Over-Achiever milestone, I think several of the achievements are bugged. I've found three so far that don't seem to unlock even when the requirements are met:
I'm loving the Hero submissions, folks. Keep them coming! (although if you've already submitted more than ten, you might want to consider going for the Over-Achiever milestone next )
@Dee Oh but I haven't even started dredging up my BG1 saves yet! ... Fine, I get the hint.
Speaking of the Over-Achiever milestone, I think several of the achievements are bugged. I've found three so far that don't seem to unlock even when the requirements are met:
- Worst Day Ever - All the Options - Entertained
That's good to know! If you created bug reports for all of them, we should be able to fix the issue.
The first post in this thread has been updated, along with the roadmap graphic itself.
37 Heroes means we've unlocked the "Pregen Character" milestone!
We'll wait until this whole event is over before releasing the pregen, in case the second and third tiers for that reward get unlocked as well. But that being said, I'm already getting ideas for what this new pregen should be...
Keep it going, folks! Twelve more windowed screenshots before we unlock the first custom wallpaper! And tell your friends to post those selfies!
I got bored with the Shaman in BG2, so I started back in BG1 with a Dwarven Defender so I could also see how item importing works in SoA. Meet Gilgrim Hammercrash, toughest (and handsomest) dwarf this side of the Sword Coast!
Penguins, Rectangles, and Fruits
Still cruising with Windows 7 - there's no reason to upgrade to 10. Say hi to RED Demoman!
Anakin, human Assasin. His goal is simple, became a Lord of Murder or die trying.
Deadly Duo. My two characters who complete BG:EE now united to get the Lord of Murder achievement.
And the last one is Paco, half-elf - blade. He was made few hours ago to get "Fly Solo" and "Friend of Volo" but unfortunetly the "Friend of Volo" didn't "click". I reported it on the other topic.
Comments
I would like to say that it's an off-topic talk
@GreenWarlock as for Barbarians dualing/multi-classing, I highly recommend "No-restrictions mod"
Now, I've no official source on this, but I deduct that people in WotC were concerned about having a major videogame coming out using a deprecated version of the rules. If BG2 wasn't a continuation of the campaign started by BG1, I'm pretty sure they would've forced Bioware to use 3E rules.
That doesn't mean there wasn't a compromise, though. The aesthetics of BG2 are much closer to 3E than AD&D (and thus much different from BG1). The new classes are exactly the new classes from 3E - Barbarian, Monk and Sorcerer. So while these classes already existed in some form or other, it's pretty safe to assume they're there as backports from 3E. And there's also the Half-Orc, introduced as a "core" playable race by 3E and added to BG2.
There's also evidence that they were added somewhat later in development. Think about it: none have kits (prior to BG:EE, that is) or unique strongholds - each gets shoehorned into the stronghold that would make the most sense for that particular class. Also, they're the only classes not represented by any NPC (again, prior to BG:EE and Rasaad).
So I don't think it really makes a difference whether the Barbarian is treated as a class or kit. I suppose the AD&D "purist" in me would prefer kit, but that wouldn't change the fact that the Monk and the Sorcerer and the Shaman and all the new EE kits based on 3E prestige classes are still there, so that ship has sailed a long time ago.
Hero of a Thousand Faces
I really like the new Shaman class, so meet Agatosh the charismatic Half-Orc . I may even try a run with this character.Penguins, Rectangles, and Fruit
My gaming is done only on Win7 (at least until 2020 when win7 support runs out)This is Caitnegh the Skald, who seeks glory and adventure in the company of Mazzy, Keldorn, Anomen, Valygar, and Imoen. I think knighthood and chivalry was the theme when I came up with this party idea.
This dark and foreboding gentleman is Dusk the Dark Moon Monk, who goes around punching things solo.
Here's Fenora the Warsling Sniper (currently regular fighter, as I didn't get her custom kit into v2.0 yet), who travels the world doing good alongside Rasaad, Aerie, Neera, Jan Jansen, and Wilson the bear.
And this is Cara Sinclair, the Cleric/Ranger, whose party consists of Cernd, Mazzy, Hexxat, Neera, and Haer'Dalis. After playing this character, I think my favorite multiclass combination is the cleric/ranger - you get cleric spells and druid spells both, in the same priest scroll! How cool is that!
Character Sheets:
Half-orcs and Monks have been part of the game since the very very first Player's Handbook for 1st Edition AD&D. Barbarians were in first edition, as mentioned above, and even in the cartoon! For 2nd Edition they got their own handbook. It does look like you might be correct on Sorcerers though, a quick online search cannot nail down and confirmed pre-3rd Edition sightings.
The discussion about Barbarians, Sorcerers, and Monks is an interesting one, but if it could be migrated to a separate thread that would be appreciated.
I'll update the totals tomorrow. I think we may have unlocked some things this weekend!
EDIT: sorry for going off-topic. I started replying before seeing Dee's request.
While I liked the Shaman I created a few days ago, I decided to give the Paladin another chance because I want to wield a certain two hander in BG2...
These stats are after reading two stat-increasing tomes. Not to strongest Paladin, but I was quite satisfied with the overall amount of attribute points.
Hero of a Thousand Faces
Well... eh... that one's tricky. Pride? Not at all. But since I'm a gamer, there really isn't an alternative, so Windows it is.
Penguins, Rectangles, and Fruit
Better?
Speaking of the Over-Achiever milestone, I think several of the achievements are bugged. I've found three so far that don't seem to unlock even when the requirements are met:
- Worst Day Ever
- All the Options
- Entertained
37 Heroes means we've unlocked the "Pregen Character" milestone!
We'll wait until this whole event is over before releasing the pregen, in case the second and third tiers for that reward get unlocked as well. But that being said, I'm already getting ideas for what this new pregen should be...Keep it going, folks! Twelve more windowed screenshots before we unlock the first custom wallpaper! And tell your friends to post those selfies!
Edit: done. ("All the Options" was already reported.)
Hero of a Thousand Faces
I got bored with the Shaman in BG2, so I started back in BG1 with a Dwarven Defender so I could also see how item importing works in SoA. Meet Gilgrim Hammercrash, toughest (and handsomest) dwarf this side of the Sword Coast!Penguins, Rectangles, and Fruits
Still cruising with Windows 7 - there's no reason to upgrade to 10. Say hi to RED Demoman!Hero of a Thousand Faces
I've opened up my previous playthrough BG1->BG2->ToB. Meat Motan, a Stalker that has more then one similarity with his personal hero, Drizzt Do'Urden.Dual wield with every type of sword (preferable katana and scimitar)
I would prefer if the stats overview in the inventory would show the number of attacks and both damages when dual wielding.
Hero of a Thousand Faces
Anakin, human Assasin. His goal is simple, became a Lord of Murder or die trying.Deadly Duo. My two characters who complete BG:EE now united to get the Lord of Murder achievement.
And the last one is Paco, half-elf - blade. He was made few hours ago to get "Fly Solo" and "Friend of Volo" but unfortunetly the "Friend of Volo" didn't "click". I reported it on the other topic.
P.S. Besides, Kylo Ren is butt ugly compared to my elf