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The Roadmap to v2.0 (11 Milestones Cleared!)

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  • AdulAdul Member Posts: 2,002
    Well, you could say the specialization restriction and the dual classing restriction are disadvantages of the kit. But then again, the barbarian's description is a class description, not a kit description, so the whole situation is weird.
    rorikon
  • SilverstarSilverstar Member Posts: 2,207
    Strictly speaking Barbarian (as well as Sorcerer) doesn't belong in AD&D, they were borrowed from 3rd edition, where they are a separate class. So whether they're a kit or a class both make as much sense seeing as Barbarians are time travellers from a separate dimension!... or something.
  • GreenWarlockGreenWarlock Member Posts: 1,354
    Not true - Barbarian and Sorcerer were both in the original BG2 which predates 3rd Edition. IIRC, in PnP these were 'kits' in the original sense, but not part of the core Player's Handbook ruleset - you had to buy some of the many extra handbooks to get them.
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,714
    The developer by commenting on the http://redmine.beamdog.com/issues/20791 said that moving a barbarian under the fighter class as a kit is an intended change. Elminster wrote some bug reports to get its descriptions (in the different games) updated accordingly. Reported description bugs internally as bug #20808 in BGEE and #20811 for BG2EE.

    I would like to say that it's an off-topic talk :) If we want to continue discuss it, we should create a new thread.
    DeeGreenWarlocklolien
  • RodrianRodrian Member Posts: 426
    @Silverstar *THANKFULLY*, I look at the Forgotten Realms games as 'per Forgotten Realms games and not as P&P/D&D/AD&D things (emm.. hope you get what I mean)

    @GreenWarlock as for Barbarians dualing/multi-classing, I highly recommend "No-restrictions mod" :wink:
  • SilverstarSilverstar Member Posts: 2,207

    Not true - Barbarian and Sorcerer were both in the original BG2 which predates 3rd Edition. IIRC, in PnP these were 'kits' in the original sense, but not part of the core Player's Handbook ruleset - you had to buy some of the many extra handbooks to get them.

    Ehhhh... it doesn't do anyone any good if we start arguing technicalities and nitpicking here, but BGII and 3rd edition both released the same year. Quite possibly Barbarian/Sorcerer were indeed in some handbook or other before 3E but the implementation of both in BGII is really similar at least.
  • GreenWarlockGreenWarlock Member Posts: 1,354
    Insightful, plus I agree - I feel old too!
  • KilivitzKilivitz Member Posts: 1,459
    BG2 and 3E were released at the same year and thus 3E has creept up all over BG2.

    Now, I've no official source on this, but I deduct that people in WotC were concerned about having a major videogame coming out using a deprecated version of the rules. If BG2 wasn't a continuation of the campaign started by BG1, I'm pretty sure they would've forced Bioware to use 3E rules.

    That doesn't mean there wasn't a compromise, though. The aesthetics of BG2 are much closer to 3E than AD&D (and thus much different from BG1). The new classes are exactly the new classes from 3E - Barbarian, Monk and Sorcerer. So while these classes already existed in some form or other, it's pretty safe to assume they're there as backports from 3E. And there's also the Half-Orc, introduced as a "core" playable race by 3E and added to BG2.

    There's also evidence that they were added somewhat later in development. Think about it: none have kits (prior to BG:EE, that is) or unique strongholds - each gets shoehorned into the stronghold that would make the most sense for that particular class. Also, they're the only classes not represented by any NPC (again, prior to BG:EE and Rasaad).

    So I don't think it really makes a difference whether the Barbarian is treated as a class or kit. I suppose the AD&D "purist" in me would prefer kit, but that wouldn't change the fact that the Monk and the Sorcerer and the Shaman and all the new EE kits based on 3E prestige classes are still there, so that ship has sailed a long time ago.
  • M0tanM0tan Member Posts: 61
    edited March 2016

    Hero of a Thousand Faces

    I really like the new Shaman class, so meet Agatosh the charismatic Half-Orc . I may even try a run with this character.

    image

    Penguins, Rectangles, and Fruit

    My gaming is done only on Win7 (at least until 2020 when win7 support runs out)

    image
    AdulSurvivorcmk24JuliusBorisov
  • GreenWarlockGreenWarlock Member Posts: 1,354
    I know there was a call not to nit-pick but...

    Half-orcs and Monks have been part of the game since the very very first Player's Handbook for 1st Edition AD&D. Barbarians were in first edition, as mentioned above, and even in the cartoon! For 2nd Edition they got their own handbook. It does look like you might be correct on Sorcerers though, a quick online search cannot nail down and confirmed pre-3rd Edition sightings.
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    I'm loving the Hero submissions, folks. Keep them coming! (although if you've already submitted more than ten, you might want to consider going for the Over-Achiever milestone next ;))

    The discussion about Barbarians, Sorcerers, and Monks is an interesting one, but if it could be migrated to a separate thread that would be appreciated.

    I'll update the totals tomorrow. I think we may have unlocked some things this weekend!
    Adulcmk24JuliusBorisovSurvivor
  • KilivitzKilivitz Member Posts: 1,459
    edited March 2016

    I know there was a call not to nit-pick but...

    Half-orcs and Monks have been part of the game since the very very first Player's Handbook for 1st Edition AD&D. Barbarians were in first edition, as mentioned above, and even in the cartoon! For 2nd Edition they got their own handbook. It does look like you might be correct on Sorcerers though, a quick online search cannot nail down and confirmed pre-3rd Edition sightings.

    As I said in my previous post: even though they were already present in some form or other, there's plenty of evidence to suggest these classes were implemented on BG2 primarily to bring it closer to 3E.

    EDIT: sorry for going off-topic. I started replying before seeing Dee's request.
  • SurvivorSurvivor Member Posts: 68
    Hero of a thousand faces

    While I liked the Shaman I created a few days ago, I decided to give the Paladin another chance because I want to wield a certain two hander in BG2...

    image

    These stats are after reading two stat-increasing tomes. Not to strongest Paladin, but I was quite satisfied with the overall amount of attribute points.
    Adulcmk24JuliusBorisov
  • SilverstarSilverstar Member Posts: 2,207
    edited March 2016

    Hero of a Thousand Faces

    image
    Dee said:

    Show your pride in Mac OSX, Windows, or Linux!

    Well... eh... that one's tricky. Pride? Not at all. But since I'm a gamer, there really isn't an alternative, so Windows it is.

    Penguins, Rectangles, and Fruit

    image
    SurvivorAdulJuliusBorisovAedan
  • SilverstarSilverstar Member Posts: 2,207
    Dee said:

    Show us your grudging obedience to Windows or Mac OSX, or your pride in Linux!

    Better? ;)

    Yes, that sounds about right :smile:
  • AdulAdul Member Posts: 2,002
    edited March 2016
    Dee said:

    I'm loving the Hero submissions, folks. Keep them coming! (although if you've already submitted more than ten, you might want to consider going for the Over-Achiever milestone next ;))

    @Dee Oh but I haven't even started dredging up my BG1 saves yet! ... Fine, I get the hint.

    Speaking of the Over-Achiever milestone, I think several of the achievements are bugged. I've found three so far that don't seem to unlock even when the requirements are met:

    - Worst Day Ever
    - All the Options
    - Entertained
    hrt611
  • IchigoRXCIchigoRXC Member Posts: 1,001
    edited March 2016
    @Silverstar That picture of Nelliel is amazing.
    Silverstar
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    Adul said:

    Dee said:

    I'm loving the Hero submissions, folks. Keep them coming! (although if you've already submitted more than ten, you might want to consider going for the Over-Achiever milestone next ;))

    @Dee Oh but I haven't even started dredging up my BG1 saves yet! ... Fine, I get the hint.

    Speaking of the Over-Achiever milestone, I think several of the achievements are bugged. I've found three so far that don't seem to unlock even when the requirements are met:

    - Worst Day Ever
    - All the Options
    - Entertained
    That's good to know! If you created bug reports for all of them, we should be able to fix the issue.
  • AdulAdul Member Posts: 2,002
    edited March 2016
    Dee said:

    That's good to know! If you created bug reports for all of them, we should be able to fix the issue.

    I will do so.

    Edit: done. ("All the Options" was already reported.)
    Post edited by Adul on
  • SilverstarSilverstar Member Posts: 2,207
    M0tan said:

    a Stalker that has more then one similarity with his personal hero, Drizzt Do'Urden.

    Actually, I had to look twice "Hey is that Kylo-- oh, it's not.", Drizzt was not the first person that popped into my mind :P
  • SikorskySikorsky Member Posts: 402

    Hero of a Thousand Faces

    Anakin, human Assasin. His goal is simple, became a Lord of Murder or die trying.

    image
    image

    Deadly Duo. My two characters who complete BG:EE now united to get the Lord of Murder achievement.

    image
    image
    image
    image

    And the last one is Paco, half-elf - blade. He was made few hours ago to get "Fly Solo" and "Friend of Volo" but unfortunetly the "Friend of Volo" didn't "click". I reported it on the other topic.

    image
    AdulSurvivorAedanJuliusBorisov
  • M0tanM0tan Member Posts: 61

    M0tan said:

    a Stalker that has more then one similarity with his personal hero, Drizzt Do'Urden.

    Actually, I had to look twice "Hey is that Kylo-- oh, it's not.", Drizzt was not the first person that popped into my mind :P
    Kylo Ren didn't exist when I created Motan. I wanted a Scimitar dual wield Ranger :)

    P.S. Besides, Kylo Ren is butt ugly compared to my elf ;)
    Silverstar
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