@Bercon I really dislike it when people come onto this forum and start describing the opinions of others as "idiotic." Getting rid of these effects or reducing their potency is taming the game. Especially when they are talking about a game mechanic that new players to the game can find out about if they do research on it themselves. No one is forcing anyone to use Neera, and if people find out the hard way about wild mages so be it. There are plenty of other NPC's to choose from. Besides, your likelihood of running into the "gold is destroyed" effect is what? at most 2/100 (not including the 5% chance of getting a wild surge every time you cast). The likelihood of you running into this effect is minimum, and because of that I doubt many characters will run into the effect often enough for it to be a problem. With regard to the sex change that is something that for romance/plot reasons I agree should not be permanent, though I will admit I am unsure how long it acts now (I've read everything from using remove curse on it to get rid of it, resting, casting dispel magic, or getting another wild surge on a spell in order to get rid of it).
The table in the manual states effect 17 as "Gold on the caster is destroyed".
It doesn't say how much gold, or even that it is all gold possessed by the entire party.
So, really, this effect could be limited to, say, 10% of the party's total current gold, or even 20%, and it would still be accurate to what the manual states is happening.
The same thing is true of the sex change. It doesn't say "The caster's sex is changed permanently"; it says "The caster's sex is changed". It uses the same wording as the color change, which is temporary.
So here's my counter-proposal, and I'll conjure @SethDavis for good measure: Make effect 07, "The caster's sex is changed", use the same duration as effect 08, "The caster's color changes".
In addition, change effect 17, "Gold on the caster is destroyed", to only destroy a portion (I vote for 20%) of the party's total gold, rather than all of it.
20% is still a lot of gold if it happens later in the game, but it's not so much that a late-game player will get fed up and stop playing altogether. And it's still accurate in relation to the wording of the manual.
I think the whole lot of you are forgetting that BG:EE has Wild Mage as NPC. Does she come attached with a warning label "NEWBIES, DO NOT USE THIS CHARACTER"?
Something like losing all gold doesn't have to be game breaking, it just needs to be too annoying, too large hindrance that large portion of players wont tolerate it that makes it bad. You also have to remember that BG:EE is not made just for you hardcore fans, they are hoping to get plenty of new players along too. Forcing players to save/load often is poor game mechanic. And yes it is forcing because the penalty of not doing so is just too high. At the very least remove the effect on Normal and leave it on D&D difficulty level or set a cap how much gold you lose.
The sex change should also be temporary, an hour or something along those lines. You don't lose any opportunities of fun dialog or such for doing so. Also, how would the romance with Neera turn out if she turns to male half way through, not all people would like that.
Saying that these changes break the game or make wild mage too tame is simply idiotic. We are talking about two effects out of 100 and you are not removing them all together, you are just making them slightly less severe so players do not reload every time it happens and actually have to live through the consequences.
And some things are meant to be found out the hard way. I agree that reloading prior saves is a poor game mechanic but sometimes things just go really badly. No one says that you must reload the game after a bad effect but generally it may be your only option. When your wild mage turns to stone and he was carrying all your scrolls of stone to flesh do you really want to go get a new scroll or would you rather just reload the game?
At least gold destroyer must be change or remove. It can´t brake any " Wild mage balance " bacause Wild mage is VERY unbalanced.
Let´s look closer on Wild Surge Table...
The caster's gender changes All the party's gold is destroyed Destroy all gold on target
+ They are MANY nearly dead and instant dead effect ( primarily on low lvl )
Now look on pernament " good " effect
Gems created on caster Goodberries created on target Random treasure generated on caster ( Anything useful )
THIS IS NOT BALANCED !!!
No one is obligated to play this one kit out of 9 others, nor is anyone required to play this one class out of 10 others, nor include the class in their multi-class/dual-class combination, nor are they required to use this one NPC to complete the game.
If we are going to be looking at the chart someone should post it. I consider the benefits of the chart below based on circumstance. Although if you can find a time where being a squirrel is helpful, let me know.
Wild Surge Table
1 - Repulsion field centered on the caster 2 - Wild color changes upon the caster 3 - Squirrels appear around caster 4 - The caster becomes itchy 5 - The caster glows 6 - A fireball centers on the caster 7 - The caster's sex is changed 8 - The caster's color changes 9 - Everyone in the area changes direction 10 - Explosion centered on caster 11 - Entangle spell centered on caster 12 - Slow spell centered on the caster 13 - Target polymorphed into a wolf 14 - Caster held 15 - Caster hasted 16 - Caster changed into a squirrel 17 - Gold on the caster is destroyed 18 - Target weakened 19 - Sunfire spell centered on caster 20 - Movement rate lowered on target 21 - Fireball centered on caster 22 - Caster held as per the spell Hold Person 23 - Fear spell centered on target 24 - Roll twice more. Both effects apply 25 - Entire area explored 26 - Globe of invulnerability centered on target 27 - Silence 15ft radius centered on caster 28 - Caster dizzy 29 - Target invisible 30 - Pretty sparkles! 31 - Caster is spell's target 32 - Caster becomes invisible 33 - Color sparay from cster 34 - Birds appear around the caster 35 - Rireball centered on caster, No damage done 36 - Gems created on caster 37 - Combat music starts 38 - Goodberries created on caster 39 - Fireball flies toward target 40 - Charges drained on area effect around target 41 - Random treasure creaed on caster 42 - Caster is combat ready (+2 THACO, +2 Damage) 43 - Teleport field spell centered on caster 44 - Teleport field centered on target 45 - Area effect hiccups centered on target 46 - All doors in area of effect open. If there aren't any, then roll twice and use both 47 - Caster polymorphs into wolf 48 - Change target randomly 49 - Caster recuperates as if he rested 50 - Monsters summoned by target 51 - Start snowing if outside, otherwise roll twice more 52 - Loud noise, target must save or be stunned 53 - Target's HP doubled 54 - Summon demon to attack target 55 - Spell fired, but with squealing noise 56 - Spell goes off, but duration is halved 57 - Strange visual effect, but spell fizzles 58 - Projectile speed halved 59 - All weapons in the area glow 60 - No saving throws against the spell allowed 61 - Target is held, as per Hold Person spell 62 - Detect magic spell centered on target 63 - Roll 4 more times, and use each effect 64 - Slow spell centered on target 65 - Instead of chosen spell, a different spell of same level goes off 66 - Lightning bolt spell cast at target 67 - Target strengthened 68 - Heal centered on target 69 - Entangle target 70 - Caster weakened 71 - Fireball centered on target 72 - Flesh to Stone on target 73 - Spell fired, caster is recuperated 74 - Heal spell centered on caster 75 - Target dizzy 76 - Sunfire centered on target 77 - Target held 78 - Taget blinded 79 - Target charmed 80 - Gems created on target 81 - Target's movement rate reduced 82 - Random treasure created on target 83 - Target polymorphed into a squirrel 84 - Silence 15' radius centered on target 85 - Target's sex changes 86 - Fake explosion centered on target 87 - Stinking Cloud centered on target 88 - Cow falls from sky onto target 89 - Target dizzy 90 - Spell has 60' radius at target 91 - Target itchy 92 - Casters HP doubled 93 - Target held 94 - Target hasted 95 - Destroy all gold on target 96 - Spells power doubles 97 - Spell cast, -4 to targets saving throws 98 - Target's color changes 99 - Spell cast at double level 100 - Spell casts normally
One solution perhaps is to make it so that you can place gold in chests. I mean, you can take it out of a chest, so I fail to see why you should not be able to put it back into one. Heck, in icewind dale 2 you could have gold appear in your inventory and until you clicked on it it would not be added to your total. Perhaps having this as an option for characters is a better solution than say removing this effect all together. That said, @aosaw is correct in stating that the table itself does not say how much gold is destroyed or how long the sex changes lasts, so it is something that could be changed while still keeping the table as it is now. I'm not saying that I would like that, because I kind of like having that risk, only that it could be changed.
@Dragonfolk2000 do you figure #35 in the table is rireball or fireball? I'm sort of hoping that rireball is like an uber powerful version of fireball that incinerates trolls but does no damage to the caster.
@Edvin would it be easy? They can't really do a lot of editing of any of the old maps I assume since they don't have copies of the original artwork. So how would they label a building "bank" like they label inns? (by that I mean the signs that say "Helm and Cloak Inn" or whatever). Maybe they could draw over it, though I'm not sure that would work out. Either that or in the map itself, but I hate map labels. I'm just sort of rambling since I'm not a modder nor familiar enough with modding the game to know though.
Putting coins in chests seems to me like an even easier solution, especially since whatever you put in a chest remains through the game.
It would require some fiddling with the "Gold" section of the inventory screen to make it a movable item that doesn't take up space in your inventory, but it could potentially be done.
A much simpler solution would be to just reduce the percentage of the wild surge's effects from 100% to 20% (or even 50%, really).
The sex change should also be temporary, an hour or something along those lines. You don't lose any opportunities of fun dialog or such for doing so. Also, how would the romance with Neera turn out if she turns to male half way through, not all people would like that.
On the other hand, that surge effect could open up new dialogue options for about 10% of the playerbase. :-D
More seriously: Do we really want the game to hold our hands like this? Baldur's Gate's popularity has persisted for over ten years because it appeals to a wide variety of people. Role players and power gamers can still find something fun about it. I think a large part of that is because the game can still be a challenge.
Don't like the side effects of playing a Wild Mage? Don't play one. Roll an Illusionist or a Conjurer instead. That's what I did. Way back when, I took one look at the surge table, laughed, and said "Eff that." I've never had a Wild Mage in my party and I probably never will.
And guess what? I've never had to reload because my gold was destroyed. Simple, eh?
@Brude I think the concern is more pressing now because one of the new NPCs happens to be a wild mage, which means that avoiding wild magic would require avoiding an entire NPC's plotline.
In any case, I can see #17 being unusually depressing as a wild surge effect, especially if it happens late in the game when your party has more gold than it knows what to do with. If it happens at the end, after you've finished most of the side quests in the game, there are precious few opportunities to acquire equipment to sell or loot gold from enemies or chests, and a player shouldn't get stuck at the end because of a class ability.
Reducing it to a percentage will make it still hurt, without being an unnecessary hindrance to late-game players. If you've been quick-saving every few minutes, it won't be as much of an issue; but if this happens at the end of a dungeon, it's a lot harder to just reload, which makes it rather similar to a random death.
There's also the fact that the table description says "gold on the caster", not "gold in the party". If I cast a spell while Minsc is holding the party's gold, it doesn't make sense that Minsc's gold should get destroyed. That makes the effect into a "Gold within a certain radius" effect, which doesn't make as much sense.
If we're removing effects that make you insta-reload, can we then remove that it's game over when the charname dies? Because that's just insta-reload and it sucks. I don't want to keep reloading my last quicksave as soon as he dies.
But on a more serious note-- I've played wild mage all the time. The bonuses it gives you are huge. It needs bad effects to happen if you're going to use those bonuses. Losing 5,000 gold is a joke when you can be casting any spell using a level 1 spell slot. If someone doesn't like it, they just need to roll up a regular mage.
There is a very good reason why when you die you die permanently unless you reload. I'm assuming that everyone looking through this has beaten the first game, but since it involves an important plot development I'm hiding it.
The reason is that because you are a spawn of Bhaal and when you die you lose the essence of Bhaal which you possess. Otherwise in many cases upon your death you could be simply be resurrected. Since the games revolve around you having that essence, especially in the first game and in the expansion of BG2, losing it would break the plot of the game. Don't ask about Imoen either, she was a late edition to the game and they really did not think her character out well.
@Brude I think the concern is more pressing now because one of the new NPCs happens to be a wild mage, which means that avoiding wild magic would require avoiding an entire NPC's
Unless BG:EE actually requires Neera to be in your party for some reason, I'm not seeing a huge problem. I mean, I've never run a vanilla group that had Tiax, Garrick, or Eldoth or Safana in it either. I've never completed any quests around Skie and I've never felt like I've lost out on anything as a result.
In any case, I can see #17 being unusually depressing as a wild surge effect, especially if it happens late in the game when your party has more gold than it knows what to do with. If it happens at the end, after you've finished most of the side quests in the game, there are precious few opportunities to acquire equipment to sell or loot gold from enemies or chests, and a player shouldn't get stuck at the end because of a class ability.
People have already mentioned multiple ways to mitigate this effect (by stashing jewels and items beforehand). I don't think reloading because of bad effects is necessarily a bad thing either. If I screw up, and Hobgoblin Elites manage to poison half my party, I'm probably going to reload. If Edwin fails to scribe a few times in a row, I'm probably going to reload (and roll my eyes once again at that stupid mechanic). This doesn't mean I think that poisons should be removed from the game and scribing spells should be reworked, though.
While I agree that the chance of a surge should be lower on the easier difficulty levels, one negative effect should not necessitate changing the rules across the board.
If we follow this line of reasoning to its conclusion, we'll end up gimping the game in the name of convenience and balance.
To be fair, it's not changing the rules across the board. It's changing the one negative effect that "needs" changing.
I'm not saying it should or shouldn't be changed. I'm just saying, it would be a fairly simple solution to implement, and it would make life a lot easier for players at the end of the game.
To be fair, it's not changing the rules across the board. It's changing the one negative effect that "needs" changing.
I'm not saying it should or shouldn't be changed. I'm just saying, it would be a fairly simple solution to implement, and it would make life a lot easier for players at the end of the game.
Well, I gotta disagree with you there. If this change were implemented, your desire not to reload would impact my game on the Core setting.
I don't think life should be easier for players. As I said before, people like this game *because* it's hard. You start mitigating some of that difficulty, the game won't be as fun.
Now, if you wanted to argue that their should be a "double the party's gold" effect on that table to balance out the negative, then I think you'd be standing on stronger ground.
Wild Mages are, by design, playing with fire. You want to play without getting burned. Honestly, I don't understand that mindset at all.
Hey, I plan on using Neera regardless. I think she's spunky.
I'm just thinking about it in terms of design. If I were designing the chart, I'd have to consider what would happen if #17 happened in the middle of a play-through. Based on that consideration, I would make it a percentage instead of a "reduce to zero".
What if this effect happens in BG2, before you pay off Gaelan Bayle but after you've completed all of the other side-quests that are available, sold the extraneous equipment, and converted all your gems to gold? If you happen to get hit with this 1% chance effect, you have literally no way of proceeding because you've already exhausted that game's sources of income. It is the same as killing the protagonist, in that you have no choice but to reload and earlier save.
Now, I've never had this happen to me. But I can see this being reeeeeally annoying, in a way that isn't fun. Changing it into a percentage of the party's current gold would still be potentially devastating, without forcing the player to reload due to plot restrictions.
EDIT: Congratulations on the new avatar, by the way! Looks spiffy.
What if this effect happens in BG2, before you pay off Gaelan Bayle but after you've completed all of the other side-quests that are available, sold the extraneous equipment, and converted all your gems to gold? If you happen to get hit with this 1% chance effect, you have literally no way of proceeding because you've already exhausted that game's sources of income. It is the same as killing the protagonist, in that you have no choice but to reload and earlier save.
Now, I've never had this happen to me. But I can see this being reeeeeally annoying, in a way that isn't fun. Changing it into a percentage of the party's current gold would still be potentially devastating, without forcing the player to reload due to plot restrictions.
You're right. That would absolutely suck. But it's also a remote possibility, and while not fun it kinda strikes me as saying "But, officer! I didn't know the gun was loaded when I picked it up!".
In other words, you play with a Wild Mage and rely heavily on Dweomer, presumably you know what you're getting into. Given the massive and immediate benefits the class offers, I don't think anyone can really complain too much when things go wrong.
I'd use that spell as a panic/last resort/oh shoot button. From this thread, I get the impression that people are running around with nothing but Dweomer memorized at level one and then raging when they try and cast Magic Missiles at a kobold.
Reloading is a minor issue at best. I don't know how anyone else plays, but I'm slapping "Q" anytime I'm about to do something and am not positive of a good outcome. Just in case.
Finally, I gotta say: classes are only fun when they have contraints. There's nothing more boring than being overpowered. If you want the gold effect to be nerfed, then something "good" about the class has to go with it.
EDIT: Congratulations on the new avatar, by the way! Looks spiffy.
Actually, the way that Dweomer works, you're a lot less likely to encounter #17 in BG2 where it would be truly game-breaking. Since you add your caster level to the percentage check from the wild surge, from level 17 onward you'll never have to worry about losing all your gold. The instances where this effect is mostly to occur are when you hit that 5% chance of a surge on a normal casting, even if you're not using Reckless Dweomer.
There are a couple of high-# effects that make me skeptical as well. For instance, there are two very similar doubling effects: one that doubles your caster level, and one that doubles the spell's effectiveness. One of these effects could (and probably should) be swapped out for something else that is less uber-potent.
That said, I frequently sit with nothing but Reckless Dweomer prepared in my level 1 slots. But that's at least partly because I find most of the effects hilarious. (The other part is that it makes my wild mage feel like a wild sorcerer, which is nifty.)
@aosaw your chances of getting #95 however do go up with the use of the Dweomer, since the number of possible outcomes go down.
Not true. The level or chaos shields are added to the dice. So if I throw 80, my level is 22 I get 102, which is rounded to 100. So the chance of getting 100, "spell casts normally" increases but everything else stays as improbable as ever.
And sometimes ideas just have to be called idiotic, because they are. Reducing severeness of some effects of the wild surge so people can actually continue playing does not significantly tame the wild mage. Fine, turn half of the positive effects to negative. I'm fine with that. But introducing so harsh penalties that force reloading simply because some numerical value dropped is not fun. It doesn't give you hopeless battle against a pit fiend, it doesn't blow up the screen in fireballs killing everything, it makes a numerical change and that's it. I don't think that even mathematicians find that entertaining.
Since you guys seem to want to keep this instant reload mechanic in the game, at least make it spectacular. Cast no save no resit disintegration on everything on screen including enemies, summon ten hostile planetars or something else that goes the user go "Wow".
Since you guys seem to want to keep this instant reload mechanic in the game, at least make it spectacular. Cast no save no resit disintegration on everything on screen including enemies, summon ten hostile planetars or something else that goes the user go "Wow".
You keep saying that when bad things happen that its an 'instant reload'. Not everyone plays like that. SOME people like to role-play, and if a bad thing happens, they just roll with it and continue. Losing all gold at any one time in BG is not a game breaker. Worst case scenario one would have to pawn one of their magic weapons, sell a few scrolls, or do an extra side quest or two to get the gold back. Simply put, none of the wild surges are insta-death or game killing (When I play, my NPC always wears a valuable necklace, or ring, or has a diamond hidden in their pocket for emergencies; this is realistic! No banks exist in the forgotten realms!).
Frankly, one of the features I love about older hardcore RPGs like BG is that fact that they make you think, and be careful with your actions, as perma-death of your character and NPCs is always a possibility. For example, when first encountering the basalisks two of my NPCs were turned to stone. Did I reload the game??? No. I finished the fight, then dragged my butt back to down several maps over, recovered, bought some stone to flesh spells at the temple (quite expensive items in early game), then returned to the site of the battle (several days later) and restored my NPCs. THAT is role playing. Instant-reload would have been far easier, but isn't it nice that the game allows you to role-play it out if you choose?
So, instead of criticizing an core game mechanic, just admit that you're a reloader and be done with it. There is nothing wrong with playing like that. It's just a different play style. It's like in some modern RPGs where its impossible to die. Apparently many players would rather there be no consequences for their actions, so be it. Keep BG HARD CORE!
Comments
The table in the manual states effect 17 as "Gold on the caster is destroyed".
It doesn't say how much gold, or even that it is all gold possessed by the entire party.
So, really, this effect could be limited to, say, 10% of the party's total current gold, or even 20%, and it would still be accurate to what the manual states is happening.
The same thing is true of the sex change. It doesn't say "The caster's sex is changed permanently"; it says "The caster's sex is changed". It uses the same wording as the color change, which is temporary.
So here's my counter-proposal, and I'll conjure @SethDavis for good measure:
Make effect 07, "The caster's sex is changed", use the same duration as effect 08, "The caster's color changes".
In addition, change effect 17, "Gold on the caster is destroyed", to only destroy a portion (I vote for 20%) of the party's total gold, rather than all of it.
20% is still a lot of gold if it happens later in the game, but it's not so much that a late-game player will get fed up and stop playing altogether. And it's still accurate in relation to the wording of the manual.
It can´t brake any " Wild mage balance " bacause Wild mage is VERY unbalanced.
Let´s look closer on Wild Surge Table...
The caster's gender changes
Target's sex changes
All the party's gold is destroyed
Destroy all gold on target
+ They are MANY nearly dead and instant dead effect ( primarily on low lvl )
Now look on pernament " good " effect
Gems created on caster
Goodberries created on target
Random treasure generated on caster ( Anything useful )
THIS IS NOT BALANCED !!!
If we are going to be looking at the chart someone should post it. I consider the benefits of the chart below based on circumstance. Although if you can find a time where being a squirrel is helpful, let me know.
Squirrel or wolf change in battle is bad, but not permanent.
The caster's gender changes
Target's sex changes
All the party's gold is destroyed
Destroy all gold on target
This are permanent effects.
Yes, that is solution, but removing thing is much easier then creating new.
But if you want do it hard way, then....
What about Bank ? ( And you can deposit all your gold )
It is easy enough to implement
Putting coins in chests seems to me like an even easier solution, especially since whatever you put in a chest remains through the game.
A much simpler solution would be to just reduce the percentage of the wild surge's effects from 100% to 20% (or even 50%, really).
It will be very easy actually.
In Beregost is many empty houses.
Just put on one sign " BANK ".
Is there a reason for wanting a bank for your gold, other than to keep it safe from wild surges? It seems like we're treating a symptom here.
I must admit, keep my gold safe from wild surges was first reason.
But Bank is actually really good idead.
Deposits, loans, interests.
More seriously: Do we really want the game to hold our hands like this? Baldur's Gate's popularity has persisted for over ten years because it appeals to a wide variety of people. Role players and power gamers can still find something fun about it. I think a large part of that is because the game can still be a challenge.
Don't like the side effects of playing a Wild Mage? Don't play one. Roll an Illusionist or a Conjurer instead. That's what I did. Way back when, I took one look at the surge table, laughed, and said "Eff that." I've never had a Wild Mage in my party and I probably never will.
And guess what? I've never had to reload because my gold was destroyed. Simple, eh?
In any case, I can see #17 being unusually depressing as a wild surge effect, especially if it happens late in the game when your party has more gold than it knows what to do with. If it happens at the end, after you've finished most of the side quests in the game, there are precious few opportunities to acquire equipment to sell or loot gold from enemies or chests, and a player shouldn't get stuck at the end because of a class ability.
Reducing it to a percentage will make it still hurt, without being an unnecessary hindrance to late-game players. If you've been quick-saving every few minutes, it won't be as much of an issue; but if this happens at the end of a dungeon, it's a lot harder to just reload, which makes it rather similar to a random death.
There's also the fact that the table description says "gold on the caster", not "gold in the party". If I cast a spell while Minsc is holding the party's gold, it doesn't make sense that Minsc's gold should get destroyed. That makes the effect into a "Gold within a certain radius" effect, which doesn't make as much sense.
But on a more serious note-- I've played wild mage all the time. The bonuses it gives you are huge. It needs bad effects to happen if you're going to use those bonuses. Losing 5,000 gold is a joke when you can be casting any spell using a level 1 spell slot. If someone doesn't like it, they just need to roll up a regular mage.
There is a very good reason why when you die you die permanently unless you reload. I'm assuming that everyone looking through this has beaten the first game, but since it involves an important plot development I'm hiding it.
While I agree that the chance of a surge should be lower on the easier difficulty levels, one negative effect should not necessitate changing the rules across the board.
If we follow this line of reasoning to its conclusion, we'll end up gimping the game in the name of convenience and balance.
I'm not saying it should or shouldn't be changed. I'm just saying, it would be a fairly simple solution to implement, and it would make life a lot easier for players at the end of the game.
I don't think life should be easier for players. As I said before, people like this game *because* it's hard. You start mitigating some of that difficulty, the game won't be as fun.
Now, if you wanted to argue that their should be a "double the party's gold" effect on that table to balance out the negative, then I think you'd be standing on stronger ground.
Wild Mages are, by design, playing with fire. You want to play without getting burned. Honestly, I don't understand that mindset at all.
I'm just thinking about it in terms of design. If I were designing the chart, I'd have to consider what would happen if #17 happened in the middle of a play-through. Based on that consideration, I would make it a percentage instead of a "reduce to zero".
What if this effect happens in BG2, before you pay off Gaelan Bayle but after you've completed all of the other side-quests that are available, sold the extraneous equipment, and converted all your gems to gold? If you happen to get hit with this 1% chance effect, you have literally no way of proceeding because you've already exhausted that game's sources of income. It is the same as killing the protagonist, in that you have no choice but to reload and earlier save.
Now, I've never had this happen to me. But I can see this being reeeeeally annoying, in a way that isn't fun. Changing it into a percentage of the party's current gold would still be potentially devastating, without forcing the player to reload due to plot restrictions.
EDIT: Congratulations on the new avatar, by the way! Looks spiffy.
In other words, you play with a Wild Mage and rely heavily on Dweomer, presumably you know what you're getting into. Given the massive and immediate benefits the class offers, I don't think anyone can really complain too much when things go wrong.
I'd use that spell as a panic/last resort/oh shoot button. From this thread, I get the impression that people are running around with nothing but Dweomer memorized at level one and then raging when they try and cast Magic Missiles at a kobold.
Reloading is a minor issue at best. I don't know how anyone else plays, but I'm slapping "Q" anytime I'm about to do something and am not positive of a good outcome. Just in case.
Finally, I gotta say: classes are only fun when they have contraints. There's nothing more boring than being overpowered. If you want the gold effect to be nerfed, then something "good" about the class has to go with it. Thanks!
Also: FOR THE HORDE! :-D
There are a couple of high-# effects that make me skeptical as well. For instance, there are two very similar doubling effects: one that doubles your caster level, and one that doubles the spell's effectiveness. One of these effects could (and probably should) be swapped out for something else that is less uber-potent.
That said, I frequently sit with nothing but Reckless Dweomer prepared in my level 1 slots. But that's at least partly because I find most of the effects hilarious.
As it is for any situation.
Nothing to see here, move alone.
And sometimes ideas just have to be called idiotic, because they are. Reducing severeness of some effects of the wild surge so people can actually continue playing does not significantly tame the wild mage. Fine, turn half of the positive effects to negative. I'm fine with that. But introducing so harsh penalties that force reloading simply because some numerical value dropped is not fun. It doesn't give you hopeless battle against a pit fiend, it doesn't blow up the screen in fireballs killing everything, it makes a numerical change and that's it. I don't think that even mathematicians find that entertaining.
Since you guys seem to want to keep this instant reload mechanic in the game, at least make it spectacular. Cast no save no resit disintegration on everything on screen including enemies, summon ten hostile planetars or something else that goes the user go "Wow".
You keep saying that when bad things happen that its an 'instant reload'. Not everyone plays like that. SOME people like to role-play, and if a bad thing happens, they just roll with it and continue. Losing all gold at any one time in BG is not a game breaker. Worst case scenario one would have to pawn one of their magic weapons, sell a few scrolls, or do an extra side quest or two to get the gold back. Simply put, none of the wild surges are insta-death or game killing (When I play, my NPC always wears a valuable necklace, or ring, or has a diamond hidden in their pocket for emergencies; this is realistic! No banks exist in the forgotten realms!).
Frankly, one of the features I love about older hardcore RPGs like BG is that fact that they make you think, and be careful with your actions, as perma-death of your character and NPCs is always a possibility. For example, when first encountering the basalisks two of my NPCs were turned to stone. Did I reload the game??? No. I finished the fight, then dragged my butt back to down several maps over, recovered, bought some stone to flesh spells at the temple (quite expensive items in early game), then returned to the site of the battle (several days later) and restored my NPCs. THAT is role playing. Instant-reload would have been far easier, but isn't it nice that the game allows you to role-play it out if you choose?
So, instead of criticizing an core game mechanic, just admit that you're a reloader and be done with it. There is nothing wrong with playing like that. It's just a different play style. It's like in some modern RPGs where its impossible to die. Apparently many players would rather there be no consequences for their actions, so be it. Keep BG HARD CORE!