By everyone I mean nearly everyone, obviously. Which they are is implicit. Also, the developers aren't stupid. They know which ones stand out as the worst. Don't pretend it's an unanswereable question and that if we can't get it all perfect for everyone, we may as well not even try.
A lot of people have a lot of different tastes. None of the Wild Surges are game-enders, and I'd absolutely love to see which ones you think are (other than gold destruction).
Probably Sex change and gold destruction. (If the sex change can't be reversed, can it? never actually played the wild mage.) The rest? Not really "inmediate reload"
Someone should make a mod adding the rest of the PnP wild magic tables to the game. My favourite was always "The next thing the caster says becomes true." (But the caster doesn't know that, of course)
Fixed that for you. Admit it: you basically said that MY opinion should be ignored because I disagree with you.
You claim the question is not unanswerable ... yet when I asked you, you didn't even attempt it. You hand waved and blustered and harrumphed words like "obvious" and "implicit."
If it's obvious you should know as well as I which those are. Go ahead. Make a poll. Show us which ones that "nearly everyone" want removed. Bet you'll be surprised.
Admit it: you basically said that MY opinion should be ignored because I disagree with you.
You claim the question is not unanswerable ... yet when I asked you, you didn't even attempt it. You hand waved and blustered and harrumphed words like "obvious" and "implicit."
If it's obvious you should know as well as I which those are. Go ahead. Make a poll. Show us which ones that "nearly everyone" want removed. Bet you'll be surprised.
I think there is a lot of support for removing the gold destruction one. It is a game-ender, no question about it, earlier in the game when you are still buying things. And players can continue buying very powerful, very expensive items quite late into the game.
If the sex change is permanent until the next sex change surge, I'd include that as well.
There may be others people have strong feelings about, and I am open to discussion on them. But if you really, really want me to say "this is my list," there you have it, but I recognize that there may be other surges that a lot of people have a problem with, and if so, I think everything is on the table for consideration. If BG had some sort of gameplay feedback uploading system the way a lot of current Bioware games do, we might be able to track which ones cause people to reload, but we do not have that data.
I said from the start that there are purists who will soldier on no matter what rolls they get. You are such a person. And I said from the start that they should be disregarded for the whole. Why try to get me to admit it again?
As for asking people what they think: People are more likely to respond to a thread that they disagree with than one that they agree with. This creates the appearance that most ideas are unpopular. Oftentimes, people will even have an emotional reaction to something that wasn't even said, and they reply based upon that. I don't think I'd be surprised at all.
Gold-destruction isn't a game-ender. There are so many side quests and minor quests in this game that give you gold, it's ridiculous. If you are that worried about it, try keeping some gemstones and sell them if your gold gets destroyed. The surge only says it destroys gold, not gemstones or jewelry. At least this would give you enough gold to get by if somehow your gold was destroyed.
Haha, so don't carry so much gold with you, don't sell your loot and stuck it into a tree, sell it only when you need to buy something. It is funny to imagine they are carrying bags full of gold with them everywhere:)
I think playing a wild mage requires quite different approach to the gameplay, i personally like sorcerers better.
Honestly, the only Surge I'd suggest changing is the one that summons a demon, assuming it's the same Pit Fiend that's summoned by Gate.
Nooo! That's my favorite surge! Once I played BG1 (+BGT mod) coop with my friend, and during the casting my 2lvl wild mage accidentally summoned Pit Fiend who chased us all over the map. It was hell of a fun! Definitely should be kept.
There is so much wealth in the later half of BG, in BGII there is more gold and treasure than to spend it on. Honestly, its not such an inconvenience to lose ALL gold at any one time in BGI or BGII. When one can sell a magical weapon for 2-3000gp on a whim, gold flows like water. Having all gold suddenly destroyed adds a nice obstacle, so it should stay. The only reason why I ever play a wild mage is for the unexpected results. Lets also not forget the wild mage spells:
Chaos Shield increases a wild mage's chance to gain favorable result when a wild surge occurs. Every time a roll is made on the wild surge chart, an extra 15 is added to the dice roll. When Nahal's Reckless Dweomer is cast, the bonus from Chaos Shield stacks with the wild mage's level bonus.
Nahal's Reckless Dweomer
This spell is the wild mage's ultimate last-resort spell. When cast, the mage releases a sudden flood of wild magical energy in the hope of seizing and shaping that energy into a desired spell effect. The attempt usually fails, but something almost always occurs in the process.
Before casting the spell, the mage announces the spell effect he is trying to create. The mage must be able to cast the spell (i.e., have it in his spellbook), but need not have it memorized. After announcing the spell (along with the target and any other conditions required by the spell), the wild mage casts Nahal's Reckless Dweomer. A burst of magical energy is released, which the wild mage tries to manipulate into the desired form. The actual effect of the spell is determined randomly.
Because the release of energy is planned by the mage, his level is added to the dice roll made when determining what sort of wild surge occurs. This means there is a better chance of a good result. If the result indicates success, the mage has shaped the magical energy into the desired effect. More often than not, the effect is completely unexpected. The result may be beneficial to the mage or it may be completely disatrous; this is the risk the mage takes in casting Nahal's Reckless Dweomer.
Improved Chaos Shield
Improved Chaos Shield increases a wild mage's chance to gain a favorable result when a wild surge occurs. Every time a roll is made on the wild surge chart, an extra 25 is added to the dice roll. When Nahal's Reckless Dweomer is cast, the bonus from Chaos Shield stacks with the wild mage's level bonus.
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Play a WM right and you'll almost never get bad results, and even when you do, they are no so serious as to cause a reload if you're not properly prepared. Besides, if one is going to reload, they will reload, there is no point in making the game easier for a few people who may not want to risk something bad happening to them...
I actually would like to see the 1000 wild magic effects tables that circulated back in the times 2e was popular implemented in the game... some really nasty effects there. I'll see if I still have it somewhere
I believe the game's description of wild mages warns the player that wild magic is not intended for the faint of heart. Part of it being wild is that it could have disastrous results. The trade-off is that with Nahal's Reckless Dweomer, you can cast much higher-level spells way before you'd normally be able to. (Fireball at level 1, anyone?). And @Space_Hamster is right; if you play it right, you'll almost never get a bad result.
It would be neat if there were unique effects that only took place once. And I also kind of feel like there ought to be some effects that are different for Neera vs. the protagonist.
Wild Surge 01, protagonist: "Turn into the Slayer" Wild Surge 01, Neera: "Turn into a squirrel"
Whaat? You wanna turn her into Squirrel Girl? Too overpowered, man, come on!
Gold-destruction isn't a game-ender. There are so many side quests and minor quests in this game that give you gold, it's ridiculous.
Sure, why not ? Actually why not add also all magic item-destruction ? There are so many magic items in game, you can always buy or loot new...
Gold-destruction isn´t a game-ender, but is it only one irreversible wild effect. Even if wild surge kill you, ( and you are not CHARNAME ) you can revive yourself. That why people hate this gold-destruction efect.
Second one ( The caster's gender changes ) is´t that bad. It is only cosmetic change and you can reverse it by another wild effect or using sex-change belt. ( Actualy, it can be pretty funny add Neera some " special " dialogs if is their gender change [ and new portret too ! ] )
Personally, I would rather it destroy a specified amount of gold, rather than all of the gold you have.
Even if the number was big, like 20,000 or something, that would be better, because if you had a hundred-thousand gold on you, you'd still have some of it left afterward.
That said, I don't see this as a huge problem. It's one of the risks of wild magic, and unless it happens right before you were planning to go buy a bunch of stuff, it will probably not impair your game overmuch.
I do not see the problem. If you think it's too much reload the game. It won't come up that often anyways, one or two extra reloads per game aren't that big of a deal, and not worth spending the developers precios time on. (Especially since a lot of people - myself included - would prefer to leave it in) Also, it can be circumwented, by keeping some of your money in items, so you have a "nest egg" to fall back on. It is a bit of a hassle, but its the price for the awsome features the kit has. It actually enforces a more strategic gameplay.
I normally only sell stuff if I don't have enough money to buy something I want, so the lose all gold does not affect me that much anyway.
Besides, the fun in a wild mage is that you never know what will happen beforehand.. will your next identify spell identify an item or surge and summon a demon in the middle of a city? Will you manage to cast a dweomer and get a fireball spell on level1?
That's the fun of the class. If you want to always know what happens when you cast a spell do not choose a wild mage.
The thing I don't get about the gold destruction effect is the hassle that is claimed. You can cheat all the gold you ever wanted without reloading for a moment. Darn, I lost 150K gold. Well, 160K, I forget. Type type, it's back.
Reload, yeah right. You're making this way harder than it has to be.
You say it's cheating to give yourself gold to avoid the spell effect? Well, so is revising the game to remove it entirely so it never happens. So is reloading a game save to avoid the bad surges and only get the good ones. Same diff.
can someone explain the bonus of wild mages, do they get an extra spell slot per level? and do the wild surges happen only when you cast the dweomer, or does it have a chance happening through casting normally?
First of all: most wild mage effects are not permanent. I think the penalties of dealing with the class could be greater if some of them required Remove Curse or Dispel Magic to do away with, but most wild surge effects are not permanent.
can someone explain the bonus of wild mages, do they get an extra spell slot per level? and do the wild surges happen only when you cast the dweomer, or does it have a chance happening through casting normally?
Wild Mages, like specialist mages, have an extra spell slot at every spell level. Their caster level is permamently decreased by 3 but every time they cast a spell they roll a d6 and add that to their caster level for that spell ( so if you are level 5 your caster level could be from 3 to 8). There is a 5% chance of a wild surge anytime the wild mage casts a spell.
The biggest benefit of the wild mage is reckless dweomer. They purposely induce a wild surge in hopes of casting the spell they want. This can be any spell within their spellbook, including spells they are not high enough level to cast. They add their wild mage level to the percentile roll and any other benefit (like Chaos Shield or Greater Chaos Shield). Generally, the higher on the percentile the better. A high level wild mage could cast anything he wanted at the expense of a 1st level spell.
I've always seen the wild mage as a 'risk/reward' character with major risks and major rewards. I wouldn't recommend it for new players (since a newer player likely can't handle the wild surges happening at low levels) or multiplayer games (since you will often find yourself toasting your party and reloads will use up most of your time). I play one in my current BGTuTu game because I wanted to pose an extra challenge.
I never play wild mage with a party, because of how friggin awful some of the outcomes can be (demon summoning) that said I look forward to seeing Neera in action.
The trade-off is that with Nahal's Reckless Dweomer, you can cast much higher-level spells way before you'd normally be able to. (Fireball at level 1, anyone?).
Facepalm ^ This is why this forum is awesome. It never occured to me that the Dweomer would let you cast higher spells than you'd normally be able to so long as they are in your spellbook (I'm actually being serious). I hold my head in shame, though in my defence if I do play as a mage it is normally an illusionist gnome. None-the-less, good to know.
That being said, I still would not support the elimination of some of the worse outcomes. It makes the class much more unique by having it designed in such a way that you could very well lose all of your gold with a bad cast.
I think the whole lot of you are forgetting that BG:EE has Wild Mage as NPC. Does she come attached with a warning label "NEWBIES, DO NOT USE THIS CHARACTER"?
Something like losing all gold doesn't have to be game breaking, it just needs to be too annoying, too large hindrance that large portion of players wont tolerate it that makes it bad. You also have to remember that BG:EE is not made just for you hardcore fans, they are hoping to get plenty of new players along too. Forcing players to save/load often is poor game mechanic. And yes it is forcing because the penalty of not doing so is just too high. At the very least remove the effect on Normal and leave it on D&D difficulty level or set a cap how much gold you lose.
The sex change should also be temporary, an hour or something along those lines. You don't lose any opportunities of fun dialog or such for doing so. Also, how would the romance with Neera turn out if she turns to male half way through, not all people would like that.
Saying that these changes break the game or make wild mage too tame is simply idiotic. We are talking about two effects out of 100 and you are not removing them all together, you are just making them slightly less severe so players do not reload every time it happens and actually have to live through the consequences.
Comments
You claim the question is not unanswerable ... yet when I asked you, you didn't even attempt it. You hand waved and blustered and harrumphed words like "obvious" and "implicit."
If it's obvious you should know as well as I which those are. Go ahead. Make a poll. Show us which ones that "nearly everyone" want removed. Bet you'll be surprised.
If the sex change is permanent until the next sex change surge, I'd include that as well.
There may be others people have strong feelings about, and I am open to discussion on them. But if you really, really want me to say "this is my list," there you have it, but I recognize that there may be other surges that a lot of people have a problem with, and if so, I think everything is on the table for consideration. If BG had some sort of gameplay feedback uploading system the way a lot of current Bioware games do, we might be able to track which ones cause people to reload, but we do not have that data.
I said from the start that there are purists who will soldier on no matter what rolls they get. You are such a person. And I said from the start that they should be disregarded for the whole. Why try to get me to admit it again?
As for asking people what they think: People are more likely to respond to a thread that they disagree with than one that they agree with. This creates the appearance that most ideas are unpopular. Oftentimes, people will even have an emotional reaction to something that wasn't even said, and they reply based upon that. I don't think I'd be surprised at all.
It is funny to imagine they are carrying bags full of gold with them everywhere:)
I think playing a wild mage requires quite different approach to the gameplay, i personally like sorcerers better.
Once I played BG1 (+BGT mod) coop with my friend, and during the casting my 2lvl wild mage accidentally summoned Pit Fiend who chased us all over the map. It was hell of a fun! Definitely should be kept.
Chaos Shield increases a wild mage's chance to gain favorable result when a wild surge occurs. Every time a roll is made on the wild surge chart, an extra 15 is added to the dice roll. When Nahal's Reckless Dweomer is cast, the bonus from Chaos Shield stacks with the wild mage's level bonus.
Nahal's Reckless Dweomer
This spell is the wild mage's ultimate last-resort spell. When cast, the mage releases a sudden flood of wild magical energy in the hope of seizing and shaping that energy into a desired spell effect. The attempt usually fails, but something almost always occurs in the process.
Before casting the spell, the mage announces the spell effect he is trying to create. The mage must be able to cast the spell (i.e., have it in his spellbook), but need not have it memorized. After announcing the spell (along with the target and any other conditions required by the spell), the wild mage casts Nahal's Reckless Dweomer. A burst of magical energy is released, which the wild mage tries to manipulate into the desired form. The actual effect of the spell is determined randomly.
Because the release of energy is planned by the mage, his level is added to the dice roll made when determining what sort of wild surge occurs. This means there is a better chance of a good result. If the result indicates success, the mage has shaped the magical energy into the desired effect. More often than not, the effect is completely unexpected. The result may be beneficial to the mage or it may be completely disatrous; this is the risk the mage takes in casting Nahal's Reckless Dweomer.
Improved Chaos Shield
Improved Chaos Shield increases a wild mage's chance to gain a favorable result when a wild surge occurs. Every time a roll is made on the wild surge chart, an extra 25 is added to the dice roll. When Nahal's Reckless Dweomer is cast, the bonus from Chaos Shield stacks with the wild mage's level bonus.
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Play a WM right and you'll almost never get bad results, and even when you do, they are no so serious as to cause a reload if you're not properly prepared. Besides, if one is going to reload, they will reload, there is no point in making the game easier for a few people who may not want to risk something bad happening to them...
Perhaps you ought to consider writing a mod that removes all the effects you don't like, rather than change the game for the rest of us.
You wanna turn her into Squirrel Girl?
Too overpowered, man, come on!
Gold-destruction isn´t a game-ender, but is it only one irreversible wild effect. Even if wild surge kill you, ( and you are not CHARNAME ) you can revive yourself. That why people hate this gold-destruction efect.
Second one ( The caster's gender changes ) is´t that bad. It is only cosmetic change and you can reverse it by another wild effect or using sex-change belt. ( Actualy, it can be pretty funny add Neera some " special " dialogs if is their gender change [ and new portret too !
Even if the number was big, like 20,000 or something, that would be better, because if you had a hundred-thousand gold on you, you'd still have some of it left afterward.
That said, I don't see this as a huge problem. It's one of the risks of wild magic, and unless it happens right before you were planning to go buy a bunch of stuff, it will probably not impair your game overmuch.
2 500 g in BG1 and 5 000 in BG2 sound good for me.
Not game breaker though ^^
Also, it can be circumwented, by keeping some of your money in items, so you have a "nest egg" to fall back on. It is a bit of a hassle, but its the price for the awsome features the kit has. It actually enforces a more strategic gameplay.
Besides, the fun in a wild mage is that you never know what will happen beforehand.. will your next identify spell identify an item or surge and summon a demon in the middle of a city? Will you manage to cast a dweomer and get a fireball spell on level1?
That's the fun of the class. If you want to always know what happens when you cast a spell do not choose a wild mage.
I think he means hiding gold itself - not just hiding items to sell. The ability to actually take gold out of your stockpile and stash it somewhere.
I think the best option if one has too much gold and is worried about losing it is to buy stuff and store in a safe place.
Reload, yeah right. You're making this way harder than it has to be.
You say it's cheating to give yourself gold to avoid the spell effect? Well, so is revising the game to remove it entirely so it never happens. So is reloading a game save to avoid the bad surges and only get the good ones. Same diff.
The biggest benefit of the wild mage is reckless dweomer. They purposely induce a wild surge in hopes of casting the spell they want. This can be any spell within their spellbook, including spells they are not high enough level to cast. They add their wild mage level to the percentile roll and any other benefit (like Chaos Shield or Greater Chaos Shield). Generally, the higher on the percentile the better. A high level wild mage could cast anything he wanted at the expense of a 1st level spell.
I've always seen the wild mage as a 'risk/reward' character with major risks and major rewards. I wouldn't recommend it for new players (since a newer player likely can't handle the wild surges happening at low levels) or multiplayer games (since you will often find yourself toasting your party and reloads will use up most of your time). I play one in my current BGTuTu game because I wanted to pose an extra challenge.
Facepalm ^ This is why this forum is awesome. It never occured to me that the Dweomer would let you cast higher spells than you'd normally be able to so long as they are in your spellbook (I'm actually being serious). I hold my head in shame, though in my defence if I do play as a mage it is normally an illusionist gnome. None-the-less, good to know.
That being said, I still would not support the elimination of some of the worse outcomes. It makes the class much more unique by having it designed in such a way that you could very well lose all of your gold with a bad cast.
Something like losing all gold doesn't have to be game breaking, it just needs to be too annoying, too large hindrance that large portion of players wont tolerate it that makes it bad. You also have to remember that BG:EE is not made just for you hardcore fans, they are hoping to get plenty of new players along too. Forcing players to save/load often is poor game mechanic. And yes it is forcing because the penalty of not doing so is just too high. At the very least remove the effect on Normal and leave it on D&D difficulty level or set a cap how much gold you lose.
The sex change should also be temporary, an hour or something along those lines. You don't lose any opportunities of fun dialog or such for doing so. Also, how would the romance with Neera turn out if she turns to male half way through, not all people would like that.
Saying that these changes break the game or make wild mage too tame is simply idiotic. We are talking about two effects out of 100 and you are not removing them all together, you are just making them slightly less severe so players do not reload every time it happens and actually have to live through the consequences.