Rework or remove the Wild Mage surges that lead to instant quicksave reload

PugPug

They only detract from the game for the vast majority of players. A few die-hards might soldier on no matter what if they are on some sort of purist playthrough, but generally, the only meaning they have is that the player must reload a previous save. I think at least these two need to go:

The caster's sex is changed
Gold on the caster is destroyed

Others, like the caster being polymorphed, are also likely candidates.

Brude

Doesn't that just defeat the purpose?

Let's just call em 'Mild Mages.'

PugPug

There are 100 results, some of them good, some of them bad, some of them good or bad depending on whether your target is friendly or an enemy.

http://www.pocketplane.net/volothamp/wild.htm

They'll be plenty wild without the 2 to 5 that bring gameplay to a screeching halt.

Kithrixx

I dunno. I think one of the most memorable experiences that I've ever had playing BGII was when I was doing a campagin with my brother, and we decided that we were going to continue playing, no matter what happened. Suddenly, Randolph Buford the Wild Mage turned female. Later on down the road, Randolpha obliterated all of our money on accident, setting us back almost a million gold.

Yes, some Wild Surges can really suck. However, some of them are amazing, and in my opinion, make the Wild Mage completely worth it. None of the effects are instant death, and none of them will bring a playthrough to a screeching halt. Some of them can be significant detriments, certainly, but hardly run-enders.

Honestly, the only Surge I'd suggest changing is the one that summons a demon, assuming it's the same Pit Fiend that's summoned by Gate. Otherwise? Wild Mage is awesome as it is.

aldain

Then why not remove all the surges that kill your party at lower levels as well? Those usually cause a reload.
There's about two dozen of them that will almost certainly kill most of the party (and definitely kill your casters) whenever they occur below level 9-10.

Potentially horrific surges are the downside to those extra spell slots and Nahal's Reckless Dweomer you get as a Wild Mage.

Wolfheart

Well, horrific like summoning a demon you can in theory run from vs permanently change a char or destroying all gold you have are vastly different. Then we have stuff like casting things that arn't supposed to have friendly fire, getting a cast twice and killing your party :P

Communard

If you reload when that happens then you aren't getting the proper Wild Mage experience.

LadyRhian

@PugPug Then what's the point of playing a Wild Mage? Personally, I wish they had kept some of them from the Pen and Paper game- "Caster falls wildly in love with Target" (Do you think Tazok or Tranzig would freak out if a Wild Mage suddenly wanted to jump their bones?), and "Target falls Wildly in Love with Caster"... ("Dude, why is that Spider following you around?" "I have no idea, but it's creeping me out!")

shadowstriker85

I say leave it as is. Having a chance of the spell blowing up in your face is the point of playing a wild mage. They get bonus spells without having a restricted school, a few quickloads are worth that IMO.

bigdogchris

PugPug said:

There are 100 results, some of them good, some of them bad, some of them good or bad depending on whether your target is friendly or an enemy.

http://www.pocketplane.net/volothamp/wild.htm

They'll be plenty wild without the 2 to 5 that bring gameplay to a screeching halt.

I would only agree that quickload would bring gameplay to a screetching halt. Changing sex (because you don't want Neera to turn male) and destroying gold is not game ending.

Space_hamster

Wimp. Your wild mage needs to grow a pair. Don't cast spells unless you're prepared to deal with the consequences.

Wild surge a Gate spell in BGI would be...amusing to say the least.

Tanthalas

Didn't know that the change sex wild surge was permanent.

reedmilfam

All reasons to steer clear of wild mages, in my opinion. Mages Gone Wild sounds fun in concept, but when it really happens... Let me just say you need Allstate to deal with Mayhem like her/him. And don't ever have an "ex" that happens to be a wild mage. Talk about train wrecks!

Edvin

17. All the party's gold is destroyed.

This is only Wild Surge effect what need to be remove.

Kithrixx

Why? Why is everyone always so butthurt about the gold? Gold is like water once you get your stuff together; three hours in and you have more gold than you know what to do with. Yeah, losing a bunch of it sucks, but it's really not that hard to get more. Go loot a few caves and you'll be back in business. I've always liked the gold destruction, because rarely are you in a position where you're completely screwed out of money, and often are you in a position that you have way too much gold. If your gold gets nuked, then hey, now you can't complain about how easy the game is because it's just throwing money at you.

The Wild Surges are a consequence of playing what is easily the most powerful Mage kit that Baldur's Gate has to offer. If you're really THAT upset over the Wild Surge effects, then Quickload is available to you if you want to always get the desired effect.

Dee

Personally, I think some of the wild surges could probably be replaced with story-specific effects. Like, on #17 where your gold is "destroyed", it turns out it was just transported to some lucky sod in Athkatla, and if you find him, you have to negotiate to get your gold back.

Or one of the wild surges transports your entire party to a "random" plane (but it wouldn't be random, of course), and you'd have to fight your way to an item that would allow you to return to Faerun.

It would be neat if there were unique effects that only took place once. And I also kind of feel like there ought to be some effects that are different for Neera vs. the protagonist.

Wild Surge 01, protagonist: "Turn into the Slayer"
Wild Surge 01, Neera: "Turn into a squirrel"

That kind of thing.

PugPug

For all the people saying "That's the price you pay for being a Wild Mage," -- No, it isn't. You are missing the point. Because we can quickload if the penalty is too severe, there is no price. Only inconvenience. I'm just saying the ones that would likely cause nearly all players to reload a save should be removed or changed.

If you think there should be a price, you should support this idea. It's the only way the price will be fully experienced.

I like the idea of some effects being good, some bad, and some either, depending on the target. I just think that all of them should be palatable enough so as to not always interrupt gameplay regardless of level and circumstance.

LadyRhian

I still think falling wildly in love with your target or your target falling wildly in love with you would be hilarious! Triple strength charm spell that doesn't end? Check!

Hertz

I support there being a price: that you have to save frequently and be prepared to reload and redo everything (or at least prepared to cheat the effects away). That's your price.

Otherwise, it's too good: amazingly beneficial surges vs ... Darn, I lost 5 gold. Darn, my colors changed for 15 seconds. Darn, I only got minor healing.

If you take away the inconvenient bad effects, balance it by taking away the convenient powerful good ones.

There's no such thing as negative effects that are palatable for everyone. You can't edit the wild surge list on that basis without neutering it completely. Some people LIKE to gamble. If you don't, don't.

Zaor

Reading this title, my first thought was: "There are wild surges that load the quicksave of the game?"

I'm not sure if I thought that was awesome or terrible. I kind of want to see that in the game now on the wild surge table.

Senash

I never actually paid too much attention to wild mages, but this thread picked my interest I'm seriously considering rolling one!

As for the original post: If the sex change can be removed with a Remove Curse spell, I don't see what's the fuss about it... Can anyone tell us if it can be removed or is it permanent? If Remove Curse doesnt work, you could also try casting Nahal's Reckless Dweomer until you get it changed back
And the link which was posted here also says, that you get your level added to the roll. So after lvl 7 you don't even have to worry about it! (ok, that doesn't happen so quick I know...) Or is th exp lvl only added to the surge roll if you cast the Dweomer?

Hertz

I always thought the sex change was temporary.

Grieg

Hertz said:

I always thought the sex change was temporary.

Yes it is temporary: until next surge, which change your sex back:]
In game there is something more important then money, or isn't?

Jalily

Either way, the new NPCs should definitely react to a sex change! Especially if you're in a romance. Oh the possibilities...

Hertz

It's a shame it isn't permanent. I might be tempted to write that mod myself.

PugPug

Hertz said:

There's no such thing as negative effects that are palatable for everyone.

No, but you can remove the ones that are unpalatable for everyone. Don't bring the slippery slope fallacy into this.

mlnevese

LadyRhian said:

I still think falling wildly in love with your target or your target falling wildly in love with you would be hilarious! Triple strength charm spell that doesn't end? Check!

It actually happened to me playing as a wild mage in a P&P game. The group was being attacked by quicklings (very fast monsters usually hit your party and get out of range before we can do anything) when the group's druid got them in an entangle spell. I tried to cast a fireball to kill them and got a wild surge. Surge result targets fall in love with caster... My mage was the joke of the party until that campaign ended

Hertz

PugPug said:

Hertz said:

There's no such thing as negative effects that are palatable for everyone.

No, but you can remove the ones that are unpalatable for everyone. Don't bring the slippery slope fallacy into this.

And which, pray tell, do you propose those to be?

Losing all gold is trivial, and changing the sex of a character is temporary and meaningless. Since those don't matter to ME, therefore they are not unpalatable to everyone; therefore they stay.

LadyRhian

@minevese That happened in a campaign of mine as well. One mage fell wildly in love with a Purple worm, with... uh, predictable results. I actually immortalized him in a spell i created called "Surge". You cast it, and every spell you cast for 1 day creates a wild surge. The creator of this spell just loved Wild Surges and eventually fell wildly in love with a Purple Worm and disappeared...

Purple worm is something like this:

mlnevese

@LadyRhian Poor worm

PugPug

Hertz said:

PugPug said:

Hertz said:

There's no such thing as negative effects that are palatable for everyone.

No, but you can remove the ones that are unpalatable for everyone. Don't bring the slippery slope fallacy into this.

And which, pray tell, do you propose those to be?

Losing all gold is trivial, and changing the sex of a character is temporary and meaningless. Since those don't matter to ME, therefore they are not unpalatable to everyone; therefore they stay.

By everyone I mean nearly everyone, obviously. Which they are is implicit. Also, the developers aren't stupid. They know which ones stand out as the worst. Don't pretend it's an unanswereable question and that if we can't get it all perfect for everyone, we may as well not even try.