Clearly, we're operating under different perspectives of reality.
Yes. My perspective is reality.
The game is filled with things which can make certain quests unwinnable. Some are much more probable than others. You are fearful of a one-in-a-billion rarity that could happen to a theoretical player in an almost non-existent situation. The OP, PugPug, tried to appeal to the multitudes by claiming "clearly, everybody wants this removed." When people use poor logic or irrational fear to justify their position, it makes me suspect their motivation is personal.
In theory, I agree that it is very harsh when a game becomes unwinnable. This, however, is a harsh game. Nearly every encounter can be lethal. NPCs can die, get turned to stone, get permanently turned into ghouls, get held and cloudkilled, or disappear forever unless you choose correctly; quest objects can disappear if not picked up immediately, get sold, get left behind in an area no longer available, get dropped on the ground because inventory is full, or (like Nestor's Dagger) broken; quests can be unwinnable because the player has done them in the wrong order, chosen the wrong party NPCs, picked the wrong class or sex or race or alignment, picked the wrong dialog option, or because Mellicamp the Chicken failed his saving throw.
It is a harsh game. It is hard. And... it is popular. People like it and remember it fondly. I won't claim that they like it because it is hard and harsh, but in the days of Warcraft and !-headed no-failure quests, by comparison, modern games have been dumbed down. These days most RPGs are Baldur's Gate in Candyland.
This is not a dumbed down, failsafe, no-lose game. Reloads are common. If you don't like reloads or no-win scenarios, maybe this isn't the game for you. Even if this one scenario is fixed, there are 10,000 other ways to make you reload.
Hey, @Hertz. Maybe you should read all of the posts before throwing up your little rants.
The wild surge already does what I've been saying it ought to do, as Avenger_teambg pointed out. I didn't realize it, but with that clarification I have no problems with it.
Which is great, because now I don't have to deal with your selective listening anymore.
In some weird sickly way that idea of a Squirrel of Doom turns me on in a RPG kind of way! ..well I hope it can still do what my original form could do, or least be like the Killer Rabbit in Monty Python and the Holy Grail!
It isn't just BG I, but also BG II where LOTS of items can be bought, potentially IWD also awaits us, therefore I must also cast my vote for the "All the party's gold is destroyed" must go, it's just too much and game breaking in BG II.
How is it game breaking? If you know its a possibility, don't carry any gold. Carry your wealth in gems, in expensive equipment, rare scrolls. A few high level scrolls are worth thousands in the resale market. There are many angles to role play this. Better than whining about it.
It would really only be a problem in the context of the Gaelan Bayle quest in BG2 that requires you to accumulate a specific amount of wealth before you can continue. There is a possibility (albeit a relatively small one) that you could have completed every available quest, sold all the extraneous items, and then get a wild surge that destroys your gold, therefore making it impossible to continue the game.
But it has been confirmed (repeatedly) that the surge only destroys a portion of your gold, not all of it--which means that if you have 100,000 gold, you'll still have enough to pay Gaelan even if you hit that surge.
Unless you hit it more than once, that is. But one would hope that you'd be more careful with your magic after the first time.
Stop trolling. That's not what his argument was and it's very, very clear that wasn't his argument (especially considering that he explained further in his post so there would be no ambiguity).
Stop trolling. That's not what his argument was and it's very, very clear that wasn't his argument (especially considering that he explained further in his post so there would be no ambiguity).
Take Scrabble: You find yourself with a Q, a U, a Z and some other letters. You could choose to play the word QUIZ right now, or you can hold onto the Q and U and hope to play QUALITY in a few turns time on a triple word score. Do you hold back, or do you go for the points now?
In Baldur's Gate, you have to decide whether to go up against the harder enemies now and earn a lot of gold to buy new equipment, seek out weaker enemies to gather gold slower (but at lower risk), or somewhere in between. Do you spend your gold on better armour for defence, weapons for offence or spell scrolls for a different approach. All of these things are choices that players can make, weighing the risks against the rewards based on what they've experienced so far.
Players CANNOT assess the risk of that one in a thousand chance of all their gold being removed or gating in demon by mistake. Okay, if you have a wild mage in your party, you've agreed to it, but no player can feel that risk and make an assessment of it and how it should affect their gameplay. It just happens. It's [i]force majeur[/i] or an Act of God. You can't insurance against it, and if happens, you have to suck it up (and reload the game).
THAT's the problem.
As a player, I accept that if I get Imoen killed because I went up against a bunch of ogres when I shouldn't have, then that was my fault for taking the party out of its depth. But if Neera the Wild Mage accidentally turns my protagonist to stone, that was just the dice gods being mean. The two are not the same.
Comments
The game is filled with things which can make certain quests unwinnable. Some are much more probable than others. You are fearful of a one-in-a-billion rarity that could happen to a theoretical player in an almost non-existent situation. The OP, PugPug, tried to appeal to the multitudes by claiming "clearly, everybody wants this removed." When people use poor logic or irrational fear to justify their position, it makes me suspect their motivation is personal.
In theory, I agree that it is very harsh when a game becomes unwinnable. This, however, is a harsh game. Nearly every encounter can be lethal. NPCs can die, get turned to stone, get permanently turned into ghouls, get held and cloudkilled, or disappear forever unless you choose correctly; quest objects can disappear if not picked up immediately, get sold, get left behind in an area no longer available, get dropped on the ground because inventory is full, or (like Nestor's Dagger) broken; quests can be unwinnable because the player has done them in the wrong order, chosen the wrong party NPCs, picked the wrong class or sex or race or alignment, picked the wrong dialog option, or because Mellicamp the Chicken failed his saving throw.
It is a harsh game. It is hard. And... it is popular. People like it and remember it fondly. I won't claim that they like it because it is hard and harsh, but in the days of Warcraft and !-headed no-failure quests, by comparison, modern games have been dumbed down. These days most RPGs are Baldur's Gate in Candyland.
This is not a dumbed down, failsafe, no-lose game. Reloads are common. If you don't like reloads or no-win scenarios, maybe this isn't the game for you. Even if this one scenario is fixed, there are 10,000 other ways to make you reload.
The wild surge already does what I've been saying it ought to do, as Avenger_teambg pointed out. I didn't realize it, but with that clarification I have no problems with it.
Which is great, because now I don't have to deal with your selective listening anymore.
Cheers.
Or "20% or 2,000 gold, whichever is greater".
But either one is better than "100% and now you're screwed".
Again.
Why the heck would any bank extend credit to adventurers?
It isn't just BG I, but also BG II where LOTS of items can be bought, potentially IWD also awaits us, therefore I must also cast my vote for the "All the party's gold is destroyed" must go, it's just too much and game breaking in BG II.
But it has been confirmed (repeatedly) that the surge only destroys a portion of your gold, not all of it--which means that if you have 100,000 gold, you'll still have enough to pay Gaelan even if you hit that surge.
Unless you hit it more than once, that is. But one would hope that you'd be more careful with your magic after the first time.
" If you know its a possibility, don't carry any gold. "
Yes that is awesome idea !
According to your logic:
There is possibility get hit by level drain.
Resolution: Never level up, stay on level one.
There is also possibility be charmed by enemy spell and be forced attack own party members.
Resolution: Play solo game only with main character.
And finaly, there is possibility die.
Resolution: Never play this game.
"" Don't carry any gold "" is very stupid idea.
Stop trolling. That's not what his argument was and it's very, very clear that wasn't his argument (especially considering that he explained further in his post so there would be no ambiguity).
ALL games.
Take Scrabble: You find yourself with a Q, a U, a Z and some other letters. You could choose to play the word QUIZ right now, or you can hold onto the Q and U and hope to play QUALITY in a few turns time on a triple word score. Do you hold back, or do you go for the points now?
In Baldur's Gate, you have to decide whether to go up against the harder enemies now and earn a lot of gold to buy new equipment, seek out weaker enemies to gather gold slower (but at lower risk), or somewhere in between. Do you spend your gold on better armour for defence, weapons for offence or spell scrolls for a different approach. All of these things are choices that players can make, weighing the risks against the rewards based on what they've experienced so far.
Players CANNOT assess the risk of that one in a thousand chance of all their gold being removed or gating in demon by mistake. Okay, if you have a wild mage in your party, you've agreed to it, but no player can feel that risk and make an assessment of it and how it should affect their gameplay. It just happens. It's [i]force majeur[/i] or an Act of God. You can't insurance against it, and if happens, you have to suck it up (and reload the game).
THAT's the problem.
As a player, I accept that if I get Imoen killed because I went up against a bunch of ogres when I shouldn't have, then that was my fault for taking the party out of its depth. But if Neera the Wild Mage accidentally turns my protagonist to stone, that was just the dice gods being mean. The two are not the same.
L.