Can somebody explain to me, why on one hand "apparently" trans people do not in real life talk about their sexuality
1. Because it doesn't come up and just starting random conversations about your sexuality isn't something you do in most cases. 2. Because being transgendered isn't a sexuality. 3. Because not everyone wants to explain their personal business with people they'll see every day. 4. Because at the end of the day, people you meet online are just "online people", and it's easier to talk about to perfect strangers you'll never see. 5. Because you care about someone who wouldn't adequately understand. 6. Because it's the topic of discussion. 7. Because it's often easier to sing in front of a crowd than sing in front of a few.ly so.
See your point here. But that's real-life problem. I don't think me MUST bring this into a fictional world where there dragon and half-elf no ? That's pretty much a "political view enfoncement" to bring this in the Realms than having character talking on this subjects without problem imho. In this way the complaints look way more toi me like political enfoncement than the game's writing.
Some might. Posters like Mephiston87 clearly don't want political pushing in a game that they love. Others, like myself and apparently the OP (from the Steam post), feel a combination of used and let down. We get to be the sword and shield of people admittedly pushing an agenda, and it makes us look bad to the rest of our community because people associate this BS with us.
Now as for how common or accepted transgenderism is in the Forgotten Realms...I have no idea. I'm not an expert on the Forgotten Realms, outside of a campaign book I used to run a game with some years ago, and PC games like BG and NWN. Maybe it's not even a thing, but it feels a little cheap to me (of course, the NPCs in the first Wrath of the Righteous adventure path felt pretty cheap too, so maybe it's just me). This is where I'm disappointed. I feel like it could have been an opportunity to have a character that was interesting and endearing, but that may be wishing for too much.
I do regret that it will probably further color the reception of tg characters in future works, and require the writer to be all the more elegant to avoid invoking memories of this incident.
Mines a mix, I hate seeing minorities being used as "weapons" to wage a political war with. Sjw's love using them and abusing them and making them targets, ultimately once the minority is copping the flak the sjw's flee to bask in their own self righteousness. And yes I hate games at all being censored or altered in almost any way to suit what the sjw's oppi ions. Video games are art to me basically and should be used as such, if u want to push an agenda sure call it "pushing the agenda, siege of dragonspear" not baldure's gate.
Can somebody explain to me, why on one hand "apparently" trans people do not in real life talk about their sexuality very open but in these threads they feel the need to expose themselves as being trans or on facebook and youtube and so forth? To me this whole debate seems like it got blown out of proportions and sometimes it's even questionable whether every person outing themselves as trans is truly so.
Are you suggesting that some people might tell little fibs in their posts?
If so I agree. I am beginning to suspect that alot of people who have joined the forum recently (lowers voice to speak in a hushed whisper), don't actually care about Baldurs Gate at all!
Not even suggesting it, but some posts are very suspicious. As to not caring about Baldur's Gate. I'm afraid amny of these people never heard of this game before this debate.
Ashiel,have you been insulting people? Have you been abusing people? Have you been participating in a concerted campaign to discredit and undermine Siege of Dragonspear for reasons that seem to have little (if anything) to do with the game. Have you resorted to name calling and using perjorative labels.
No?
Then we are good!
I've said it many times, but I have absolutely no problem with people complaining and criticising Siege of Dragonspear and/or Beamdog over things like bugs, functionality (and lack of), unnecessary changes to the UI, the quality (or otherwise) of the writing, and so on. In my time lurking on this forum over the years I've seen lots of that, and I've personally never had a problem with it.
What do I have a problem with? Singling out a particular employee of Beamdog and calling them evil, and seeing nothing wrong with doing that.
Ashiel I never spoke to you specifically. My view is pretty much BGLovers view quoted above.
Mines a mix, I hate seeing minorities being used as "weapons" to wage a political war with. Sjw's love using them and abusing them and making them targets, ultimately once the minority is copping the flak the sjw's flee to bask in their own self righteousness. And yes I hate games at all being censored or altered in almost any way to suit what the sjw's oppi ions. Video games are art to me basically and should be used as such, if u want to push an agenda sure call it "pushing the agenda, siege of dragonspear" not baldure's gate.
Yet again you are building straw men. It's interesting to watch the way you interact with the trans women who disagree with you while simultaneously going on about how so-called "SJWs" use "minorities as weapons." It's like you are completely unable to see the contradictions inherent in your arguments.
Also, if inclusion of transgender people and other marginalized people as characters in a video game is political, then so is exclusion of transgender people and other marginalized people. You're trying to have it both ways: Inclusion is political so exclusion is not. It doesn't work that way, not in the real world.
Can somebody explain to me, why on one hand "apparently" trans people do not in real life talk about their sexuality very open but in these threads they feel the need to expose themselves as being trans or on facebook and youtube and so forth? To me this whole debate seems like it got blown out of proportions and sometimes it's even questionable whether every person outing themselves as trans is truly so.
Are you suggesting that some people might tell little fibs in their posts?
If so I agree. I am beginning to suspect that alot of people who have joined the forum recently (lowers voice to speak in a hushed whisper), don't actually care about Baldurs Gate at all!
Not even suggesting it, but some posts are very suspicious. As to not caring about Baldur's Gate. I'm afraid amny of these people never heard of this game before this debate.
Ashiel,have you been insulting people? Have you been abusing people? Have you been participating in a concerted campaign to discredit and undermine Siege of Dragonspear for reasons that seem to have little (if anything) to do with the game. Have you resorted to name calling and using perjorative labels.
No?
Then we are good!
I've said it many times, but I have absolutely no problem with people complaining and criticising Siege of Dragonspear and/or Beamdog over things like bugs, functionality (and lack of), unnecessary changes to the UI, the quality (or otherwise) of the writing, and so on. In my time lurking on this forum over the years I've seen lots of that, and I've personally never had a problem with it.
What do I have a problem with? Singling out a particular employee of Beamdog and calling them evil, and seeing nothing wrong with doing that.
What is wrong with evil? You have a problem with evil people now?
MFW: people ask me if I have a problem with evil people
I really enjoyed having Keldorn around in my last BG II playthrough (I hadn't really appreciated him way back when). He's kind of a **** though. That said, he means well, and everyone has their demons to defeat.
EDIT: Having Viconia in the party really spiced things up. XD
@Ashiel from the creator of the Realm himself to the actual D&D compagny : they agree it's no big deal and there no problem. Think it's a good point.
Don't get me wrong I don't think your a concern troll or other. Unless the present obvious concern troll here you don't ask thing for not read the answer.
On another thread on this forum we end up thinking the real problem is the fact one character cannot really goodly explore all what can be say about transidentity. Mizhena is good in her way, it's a character who doesn't have problems with her story and it's good because it's doesn't need in the Realms-lore to have. I find personnaly very refreashing the fact she's trans and involve in multiples quests which doesn't focus on her transness. (I'm very very tired of the "trans character with a painfull trans story about rejection and struggle" which is more or less the only kind of story writer allow for trans characters). Sure Mizhena story and way to go with her own name's story could sound strange to trans person, but it's mainly because we doesn't have a one and only way to deal with ours story even in the real world. Mizhena story match more or less my own experience.
For the "it was proven that's a conscious political choice" i have say on another thread that yes, it is, but it's not the writer fault. Even me as a trans person it's always a conscious and "political" choice when I write trans character. Because our existence will always be remind as "debatable" by people. And when you see the shitstorm that came out almost every time a trans character was release you can't as a writer don't think about it (that not a problem of writing quality. There way more poorly written non-trans character, very way more). In our world writing a trans character is a "political" thing, not writing any it's also one but strangely (sarcasm) Nobody blink an eye in this case. That sad, but that the world fault, not the writer who try to go through this wild spread trans erasure. Imho
Then why put the character in there? The first magical item is one that changes your sex and there are many low level spells that do the same. In that world changing gender is common as gnolls.
There is an AWFUL lot of wrong in those sentences. Let's unpack it a little.
1) Why put a trans character in a game? Because the game is intended to reflect the real world; the real world has trans people. Why is anybody in the game? Why are any men in the game? Their real world is transsexuals everywhere, telling people your a transsexual is redundant.
2) The Girdle of Masculinity/Femininity is not the "first magical item". The first magical item is a +1 dagger. It's not the second magical item either (that's the belt you find on Gorion's corpse). And the third magical item could be damn near anything (since after that you're free to go wherever); for most people, it will be the ring that gives double level 1 spells outside the FAI. So now your telling people how to play the game and what to loot? You should put up a spoiler tag here. I get it first, have u got a problem with that?
3) The Girdle is a cursed item. It is also very rare; there's exactly one in the entirety of not just BG1, but also BG2 and ToB. Also, after being used once, it loses its magic and becomes a mundane item (in the actual game, which you're clearly using, since there are no spells that can deliberately change gender in the video game). Oh no 2 major cities out of hundreds of Plains and an entire world don't have another belt of masculinity/femininity there must be none anywhere!
4) It is flagrantly untrue to say that "many low level spells" can change gender. Polymorph self, polymorph other there are probably more, and they are low level
5) Surviving a gender change through a polymorph other spell requires a system shock roll to survive, so it'll kill a significant portion of people trying this method. What the he'll is a system shock roll? Dude this is baldure's gate, I have no idea at all where u got this information.
6) The costs of magical items and permanent polymorph spells put them far out of reach of the average person. Then get a scroll, a wand or anything else. She is a cleric/shopkeeper she can also ask her friends.
7) Here's the big one you and all the other Mizhena haters seem to completely miss: how on earth do you know that she didn't already use magical means to transition? All she tells you was a) she was raised as a boy, b) came to realise she is a woman, c) now has a new name that suits her better than her original one. Then why would she mention it? Why not, "I chose this name because it's to do with things I like?" why give her biography when asking her name?
So maybe she already used the girdle, or a polymorph spell, or it was a boon from her god, or some other means. Or maybe she didn't. Charname doesn't ask and she doesn't volunteer the information, since she's only answering a question about why her old name didn't suit her.
But you all pretend like she's going "Oh woe is me, I'm a woman trapped in the body of a man!" when she said absolutely nothing of the sort.
After you've been poked enough, all you see is a monster, and Amber Scott's antics are far from the first of social justice poking (Anita Sarkeesian, for example, is like the trident queen when it comes to unduly poking gamers). It builds up after a while.
I'm a gamer, and neither Amber Scott nor Anita Sarkeesian have ever "poked" me.
On the latter, I am not alone. I am not, in fact, even in the minority. Most gamers have no problems with Anita Sarkeesian or actively support her. This is easily shown by looking at followers - her twitter has over ten times as many followers as are on the entire KiA reddit, and her youtube account has over 200,000.
A small minority of gamers feel Anita Sarkeesian "unduly pokes" them. Most don't. You are certainly entitled to feel she pokes you, but she doesn't poke "gamers" one bit.
Mines a mix, I hate seeing minorities being used as "weapons" to wage a political war with. Sjw's love using them and abusing them and making them targets, ultimately once the minority is copping the flak the sjw's flee to bask in their own self righteousness. And yes I hate games at all being censored or altered in almost any way to suit what the sjw's oppi ions. Video games are art to me basically and should be used as such, if u want to push an agenda sure call it "pushing the agenda, siege of dragonspear" not baldure's gate.
Yet again you are building straw men. It's interesting to watch the way you interact with the trans women who disagree with you while simultaneously going on about how so-called "SJWs" use "minorities as weapons." It's like you are completely unable to see the contradictions inherent in your arguments.
Also, if inclusion of transgender people and other marginalized people as characters in a video game is political, then so is exclusion of transgender people and other marginalized people. You're trying to have it both ways: Inclusion is political so exclusion is not. It doesn't work that way, not in the real world.
Correct on all counts, so we agree if minorities weren't in it to begin with and the views weren't in the game originally it should remain that way. So rip out the transsexual(or do her better) rip out the ethics, restore the females. Keep gaming like art, add to it but keep its agenda the same. Don't change it, even amber Scott said it was sexist and that they will change that. And here we are agreeing never change art including gaming.
(Using the "they" as a singular neutral pronom here, cause I don't know the gender of the person.
It's funny to see the obvious present concern troll here saying they hate when minority are use as a weapon and that we shouldn't trust non-trans people (which they say they are) on this issue but still not read me and the trans-writen article that disagree with them, then return saying they fight for trans people speech and they talk for trans people.
At least it's an entertaining obvious concern troll. Even if they're not really original)
@Ashiel from the creator of the Realm himself to the actual D&D compagny : they agree it's no big deal and there no problem. Think it's a good point.
I wouldn't expect Ed Greenwood to have any issues with it. From what I've always heard, he's a really super nice and awesome fellow; and WotC wouldn't dare make an apparent slight towards transgendered people.
Though, I will say it feels a little odd. We've got lots of superstitious lunatics, racism, nationalism, sexism, and other nasty -isms in Faerun; in BG itself in fact; even stories of jesters being beheaded for passing off a belt of masculinity/femininity to a Duke's lover (even when having the belt removed is a fifteen minute trip to the temple and some pocket change); dudes attacking you in bars because you're stranger adventurers; nobles treating people like crap because they're lower class; etc. Nalia even makes it quite clear that homosexuality would be a scandal.
It just strikes me as a teeny, tiny, itsy, bitsy, bit odd that being trans gets a pass on the bigotry and madness prevalent throughout the realms. It kind of goes back to that thing where it, to me at least, feels rather forced.
Your mileage may vary.
Don't get me wrong I don't think your a concern troll or other. Unless the present obvious concern troll here you don't ask thing for not read the answer.
(Using the "they" as a singular neutral pronom here, cause I don't know the gender of the person.
It's funny to see the obvious present concern troll here saying they hate when minority are use as a weapon and that we shouldn't trust non-trans people (which they say they are) on this issue but still not read me and the trans-writen article that disagree with them, then return saying they fight for trans people speech and they talk for trans people.
At least it's an entertaining obvious concern troll. Even if they're not really original)
Checked YouTube? People posting killing transsexuals over and over? and reviews and forums yet? Evil Sjw's took a shot by changing the game and now transsexuals are copping the abuse. Whether it's social of physical it's abuse. I'm smart enough to stand by transsexuals and know the real enemy is sjw's.
I am not, in fact, even in the minority. Most gamers have no problems with Anita Sarkeesian or actively support her. This is easily shown by looking at followers - her twitter has over ten times as many followers as are on the entire KiA reddit, and her youtube account has over 200,000.
Just a technical point, but are Anita Sarkeesian's followers necessarily gamers? I have heard of her before, and the only game I play is Baldur's Gate. I assume she gains a lot of followers and supporters from people completely outside of the gaming community, and probably mostly feminists of all sorts who don't play games.
I am not, in fact, even in the minority. Most gamers have no problems with Anita Sarkeesian or actively support her. This is easily shown by looking at followers - her twitter has over ten times as many followers as are on the entire KiA reddit, and her youtube account has over 200,000.
Just a technical point, but are Anita Sarkeesian's followers necessarily gamers? I have heard of her before, and the only game I play is Baldur's Gate. I assume she gains a lot of followers and supporters from people completely outside of the gaming community, and probably mostly feminists of all sorts who don't play games.
She is the "Jesus" of the feminist sjw's, there are many other sjw groups tho. And feminist sjw's going for any feminist agenda(not just gaming) will follow her like a messiah.
If she had enough influence games like the witcher 3 wouldn't exist.
I've been a gamer since the 80s and I certainly don't think Anita Sarkeesian has ever "poked" me. Her points are kind of basic but she's not wrong.
Not to derail the thread but...
Her points aren't basic, they're typically just wrong or sexist. They often don't stand up to logical scrutiny. She makes statements and claims without actually verifying or validating things (going by her videos). She has factually been proven to be a liar. When people debunk her BS, it's considered harassment. She often spreads obvious misinformation (such as when she said that Hitman encourages you to act upon/kill women and stuff them in trunks, when doing so is actively discouraged by the game because it penalizes you and makes it harder to succeed).
She's absolutely wrong, and she hasn't contributed anything useful to gaming culture at all. She just gets fat sacks of cash and media attention by being an outspoken asshole with as much credibility as Jack Thompson.
So now your telling people how to play the game and what to loot? You should put up a spoiler tag here. I get it first, have u got a problem with that?
Because it's obviously wrong. If I don't get it, is it fair to say "You can't get it in the game"? You could say literally any magic item is the "first one" you pick up if you refuse to get any other magic items until that one.
Oh no 2 major cities out of hundreds of Plains and an entire world don't have another belt of masculinity/femininity there must be none anywhere!
You were implying it was common because it was the "first" item you got in the game. But the fact there's only one of them implies exactly the opposite: it's rare. Maybe it's the only one, even!
4) It is flagrantly untrue to say that "many low level spells" can change gender. Polymorph self, polymorph other there are probably more, and they are low level
It is a 4th level spell, and people who can cast 4th level spells don't grow on trees. They also don't tend to cast spells for charity.
What the he'll is a system shock roll? Dude this is baldure's gate, I have no idea at all where u got this information.
Oh, is that how we're playing this? Sure, man. Okay, in Baldur's Gate, the video game, Polymorph Other turns someone else into a squirrel. That's it. That's all it does. I know "squirrel" rhymes with "girl", but this spell would actually have been no help whatsoever to Mizhena.
In the actual game Baldur's Gate is based on, polymorph other can kill you if you fail a system shock roll (it's based on Con).
So take your pick. Either way, it is not an easy, trivial way of changing gender.
Then get a scroll, a wand or anything else. She is a cleric/shopkeeper she can also ask her friends.
I don't think you quite understand. Somebody else actually did the math on this in one of the various threads. It would take a peasant 78 years (IIRC) to save up enough money for this, provided they didn't spend any money on food or clothes.
There are a lot more peasants in the world than tomb-raiding adventurers or landed nobility.
Then why would she mention it? Why not, "I chose this name because it's to do with things I like?" why give her biography when asking her name?
Because charname asked why the name she used to have didn't suit her. It didn't suit her because it was a boy's name, and she is not a boy. It's a direct answer to the question asked.
If your charname isn't interested in why Mizhena has a weird name, or why her old name doesn't suit her, your charname doesn't have to ask, and then you never hear about it.
She doesn't give her biography. She answers a direct question, with only the information relevant to the question (which is why charname, for instance, does not find out how and if she magically transitioned). You know, like a normal person would, as opposed to most Baldur's Gate NPCs, who actually blab at you about family tragedies and stolen goods, or try to interest you in illegal schemes, the moment your heavily armed group wanders uninvited into their house.
I've been a gamer since the 80s and I certainly don't think Anita Sarkeesian has ever "poked" me. Her points are kind of basic but she's not wrong.
Not to derail the thread but...
Her points aren't basic, they're typically just wrong or sexist. They often don't stand up to logical scrutiny. She makes statements and claims without actually verifying or validating things (going by her videos). She has factually been proven to be a liar. When people debunk her BS, it's considered harassment. She often spreads obvious misinformation (such as when she said that Hitman encourages you to act upon/kill women and stuff them in trunks, when doing so is actively discouraged by the game because it penalizes you and makes it harder to succeed).
She's absolutely wrong, and she hasn't contributed anything useful to gaming culture at all. She just gets fat sacks of cash and media attention by being an outspoken asshole with as much credibility as Jack Thompson.
Very Off Topic but I just wanted to share this cool remix I found today, since I've been listening to it a lot while reading. Krewella - Human dotcom remix. I figured swapping some musical suggestions might lighten the mood. I'd recommend stuff from the RWBY soundtracks as well.
Please return to your regularly scheduled discussion.
It is a 4th level spell, and people who can cast 4th level spells don't grow on trees. They also don't tend to cast spells for charity.
I just gotta chime in 'cause I'm a tabletop nerd but... :B
Outside of Baldur's Gate itself, there are spells like disguise self [1st level] (which can allow you to look like any humanoid thing you desire, even if you're not physically accurate), alter self [2nd level] (it's like disguise self but real), and polymorph any object [8th] (while not a low-level spell, its changes are permanent unless you dispel them); and there are magic items like the hat of disguise which is basically 24/7 disguise self, and stuff like that.
Of course this may vary a bit from edition to edition but we're talking about the setting (I think) which includes material across multiple editions.
I've been a gamer since the 80s and I certainly don't think Anita Sarkeesian has ever "poked" me. Her points are kind of basic but she's not wrong.
Not to derail the thread but...
Her points aren't basic, they're typically just wrong or sexist. They often don't stand up to logical scrutiny. She makes statements and claims without actually verifying or validating things (going by her videos). She has factually been proven to be a liar. When people debunk her BS, it's considered harassment. She often spreads obvious misinformation (such as when she said that Hitman encourages you to act upon/kill women and stuff them in trunks, when doing so is actively discouraged by the game because it penalizes you and makes it harder to succeed).
She's absolutely wrong, and she hasn't contributed anything useful to gaming culture at all. She just gets fat sacks of cash and media attention by being an outspoken asshole with as much credibility as Jack Thompson.
Easier to say "donald Trump with a vagina"
Well, I'm going to be laughing for a bit. To be fair, she's got a better hair stylist.
@Ashiel Oh you're not totally wrong. In fact, imho Realms have a very good lore base for exploring a lot of thing on this subject. I always think of the drow society which is a very sexist one, don't think transness are really welcome here. For the bigot thing not all religion should have the same view on this subject, there a lot of different cultures/religion in the Realms. Better is base on the lore and don't go with our own world value (which a lot of complainor do), that more or less what the article I have share say.
We can think on a lot of different way the different culture in the Realms handle this subject, and even more way the character handle this. That's more or less a pretty common thing in the Realms to put light on character who doesn't fit the "big" stereotype. That's why we have a sadic halfeling in BG1 who say charname are dumb if they think all halfeling are the same "Nice people" picture there on the D&D description book.
Just like I sayed there no problem with feeling the Mizhena lines somehow forced. Because (and it's sad) even as a trans person I have to force myself for having trans character. But forcing myself or don't doing and write just cis character are two oposite face of the same "political" coin and I'm way more confortable with the "politicaly trying to include trans character" than the "political I don't care about trans existence". The fact is just this dialogue is totally lore-logical, but we all have right to love or not it, I don't question that, I question more when a wave of angry people come here and ask for removing the character because of the dialogue and still say it's not about the trans existence but just because "It's bad written", which is not in fact, it's a pretty good written due to technical limitation and lore-base. Of course, the Mizhena dialogue, and her future rewriting can't please everybody, even "just" every trans people, because there's way to much trans stories and way to go. But I think the response to this problem is more expand the number of trans character and gender lore-related thing and not trying to remove the few one we got.
So now your telling people how to play the game and what to loot? You should put up a spoiler tag here. I get it first, have u got a problem with that?
Because it's obviously wrong. If I don't get it, is it fair to say "You can't get it in the game"? You could say literally any magic item is the "first one" you pick up if you refuse to get any other magic items until that one.
Oh no 2 major cities out of hundreds of Plains and an entire world don't have another belt of masculinity/femininity there must be none anywhere!
You were implying it was common because it was the "first" item you got in the game. But the fact there's only one of them implies exactly the opposite: it's rare. Maybe it's the only one, even!
4) It is flagrantly untrue to say that "many low level spells" can change gender. Polymorph self, polymorph other there are probably more, and they are low level
It is a 4th level spell, and people who can cast 4th level spells don't grow on trees. They also don't tend to cast spells for charity.
What the he'll is a system shock roll? Dude this is baldure's gate, I have no idea at all where u got this information.
Oh, is that how we're playing this? Sure, man. Okay, in Baldur's Gate, the video game, Polymorph Other turns someone else into a squirrel. That's it. That's all it does. I know "squirrel" rhymes with "girl", but this spell would actually have been no help whatsoever to Mizhena.
In the actual game Baldur's Gate is based on, polymorph other can kill you if you fail a system shock roll (it's based on Con).
So take your pick. Either way, it is not an easy, trivial way of changing gender.
Then get a scroll, a wand or anything else. She is a cleric/shopkeeper she can also ask her friends.
I don't think you quite understand. Somebody else actually did the math on this in one of the various threads. It would take a peasant 78 years (IIRC) to save up enough money for this, provided they didn't spend any money on food or clothes.
There are a lot more peasants in the world than tomb-raiding adventurers or landed nobility.
Then why would she mention it? Why not, "I chose this name because it's to do with things I like?" why give her biography when asking her name?
Because charname asked why the name she used to have didn't suit her. It didn't suit her because it was a boy's name, and she is not a boy. It's a direct answer to the question asked.
If your charname isn't interested in why Mizhena has a weird name, or why her old name doesn't suit her, your charname doesn't have to ask, and then you never hear about it.
She doesn't give her biography. She answers a direct question, with only the information relevant to the question (which is why charname, for instance, does not find out how and if she magically transitioned). You know, like a normal person would, as opposed to most Baldur's Gate NPCs, who actually blab at you about family tragedies and stolen goods, or try to interest you in illegal schemes, the moment your heavily armed group wanders uninvited into their house.
-boots of the cheetah are supposed to be extremely rare why do I get 4 sets? You will find you explore less then 0.0.0.0.0.1 percent of the forgotten realms. There a far more items that change your gender. -according to the Lore polymorph other is intelligence, the danger is your brain changing intelligence. Ie. Chickens are stupid so malicamp sometimes dies stayed too long in a stupid animal, far easier to turn into anything equal or smarter. (bg changed because changing into a dragon is easy) -She is not a peasant! Why are you posting how much money peasants make? I give 1gold to a random beggar, are you telling me that is an enormous amount? You make no sense. -I have never had anyone die while casting polymorph other and I use it a moderate amount. -
@Ashiel Oh you're not totally wrong. In fact, imho Realms have a very good lore base for exploring a lot of thing on this subject. I always think of the drow society which is a very sexist one, don't think transness are really welcome here. For the bigot thing not all religion should have the same view on this subject, there a lot of different cultures/religion in the Realms. Better is base on the lore and don't go with our own world value (which a lot of complainor do), that more or less what the article I have share say.
Oh tell me about it. Jeeze, I could only imagine the scandalous hatred that would exist in underdark drow society (maybe not surface drow society though, as Eliastree [spelling?] is pretty cool). The women would think that dirty male was trying to step out of line, and FtM drow would probably be seen as totally insane by their peers and disgraceful for wanting to be those lesser males. Yeesh!
We can think on a lot of different way the different culture in the Realms handle this subject, and even more way the character handle this. That's more or less a pretty common thing in the Realms to put light on character who doesn't fit the "big" stereotype. That's why we have a sadic halfeling in BG1 who say charname are dumb if they think all halfeling are the same "Nice people" picture there on the D&D description book.
Oh totally, but those stereotypes exist for reasons. I mean, look at the halflings you meet in the game. You meet a small few (like Monteron) who're evil, but the vast majority are like little grandmothers.
Just like I sayed there no problem with feeling the Mizhena lines somehow forced. Because (and it's sad) even as a trans person I have to force myself for having trans character. But forcing myself or don't doing and write just cis character are two oposite face of the same "political" coin and I'm way more confortable with the "politicaly trying to include trans character" than the "political I don't care about trans existence".
My advice would be...don't care about trying to be inclusive, or political, or whatever. Just write the characters you want to write about. The NPC in the D&D campaign I mentioned wasn't a political or social commentary. I just thought of a character and she happened to be transgendered (I'm using her portrait token as my avatar at the moment). Don't overthink it. I've also included characters in my games who have autism, victims of sexual abuse, homosexual/bisexual/bi-curious characters, are racist, and lots of other things, racial minorities (like tieflings). Not because there weren't enough people being represented, not for an agenda, just 'cause it was who the character was.
All of these characters were well received by the people participating in the game, and I've been told some of them felt close to home but also felt pretty "right", or that they felt like people. Be real with yourself, and you'll be real with others simply by consequence.
The Mizhena dialogue, and her future rewriting can't please everybody, even "just" every trans people, because there's way to much trans stories and way to go. But I think the response to this problem is more expand the number of trans character and gender lore-related thing and not trying to remove the few one we got.
I did notice how the drow are sexist as all he'll why wasn't it changed? Human females can't be slightly portrayed in a slightly sexist light? but females keeping males as "breeding stock" and "slaves" doesn't get changed?
She's absolutely wrong, and she hasn't contributed anything useful to gaming culture at all. She just gets fat sacks of cash and media attention by being an outspoken asshole with as much credibility as Jack Thompson.
That fine, you can believe whatever incorrect things you like - this isn't the thread to have it out about whether a bog-standard mainstream feminist is Satan Incarnate or not. I am just a gamer myself, as is my wife, as are a lot of other people, and it is incorrect and icky to imply we in any way share those views.
She's absolutely wrong, and she hasn't contributed anything useful to gaming culture at all. She just gets fat sacks of cash and media attention by being an outspoken asshole with as much credibility as Jack Thompson.
That fine, you can believe whatever incorrect things you like - this isn't the thread to have it out about whether a bog-standard mainstream feminist is Satan Incarnate or not. I am just a gamer myself, as is my wife, as are a lot of other people, and it is incorrect and icky to imply we in any way share those views.
I've been a gamer since the 80s and I certainly don't think Anita Sarkeesian has ever "poked" me. Her points are kind of basic but she's not wrong.
Not to derail the thread but...
Her points aren't basic, they're typically just wrong or sexist. They often don't stand up to logical scrutiny. She makes statements and claims without actually verifying or validating things (going by her videos). She has factually been proven to be a liar. When people debunk her BS, it's considered harassment. She often spreads obvious misinformation (such as when she said that Hitman encourages you to act upon/kill women and stuff them in trunks, when doing so is actively discouraged by the game because it penalizes you and makes it harder to succeed).
She's absolutely wrong, and she hasn't contributed anything useful to gaming culture at all. She just gets fat sacks of cash and media attention by being an outspoken asshole with as much credibility as Jack Thompson.
Yeah, no. All she's doing is pointing out sexist tropes that are in videogames. She hasn't been proven wrong, nor has she been factually proven to be a liar.
Like the Hitman thing, the attempts to debunk that I've seen have been laughably childish, considering that the penalty is not that harsh and is mitigated by actually hiding the bodies.
She's contributed valuable discussion to gaming culture, it's just that a lot of that culture is invested in keeping the sexist tropes intact and beyond criticism, which is what you're trying to do here.
I love that you invoke Jack Thompson, because Anita hasn't threatened anyone with a lawsuit, nor has she been saying that videogames corrupt people. Also, a gamergater literally turned to Jack Thompson to interview him over how terrible Anita supposedly is. I swear, some people have no sense of irony.
Checked YouTube? People posting killing transsexuals over and over? and reviews and forums yet? Evil Sjw's took a shot by changing the game and now transsexuals are copping the abuse. Whether it's social of physical it's abuse. I'm smart enough to stand by transsexuals and know the real enemy is sjw's.
Yes, the real enemy of trans people is not the people making videos about killing trans people over and over, not the people who demand that only trans characters who satisfy certain ever-elusive criteria are allowed to exist, not the people who actually threaten and abuse trans people or a writer who wrote one...
...but the ones who actually oppose all the above, and think that there should be nothing startling or novel about seeing a trans character in popular media. Yep, definitely the "real enemy".
Out of curiosity: If "SJWs" are "evil", in your mind, what exactly is someone who makes a youtube video killing transsexuals over and over? How should somebody stand by transsexuals in that case?
Mephiston sounds to me like he is using transgender people as both a weapon and a shield, and is mobilizing his attempts at an appearance of support to make himself look good at the expense of transgender people. In short, he's doing exactly what he says so-called "SJWs" do. He stands as an ally to trans people who aren't inconvenient enough to disagree with him, it appears.
Checked YouTube? People posting killing transsexuals over and over? and reviews and forums yet? Evil Sjw's took a shot by changing the game and now transsexuals are copping the abuse. Whether it's social of physical it's abuse. I'm smart enough to stand by transsexuals and know the real enemy is sjw's.
Yes, the real enemy of trans people is not the people making videos about killing trans people over and over, not the people who demand that only trans characters who satisfy certain ever-elusive criteria are allowed to exist, not the people who actually threaten and abuse trans people or a writer who wrote one...
...but the ones who actually oppose all the above, and think that there should be nothing startling or novel about seeing a trans character in popular media. Yep, definitely the "real enemy".
Out of curiosity: If "SJWs" are "evil", in your mind, what exactly is someone who makes a youtube video killing transsexuals over and over? How should somebody stand by transsexuals in that case?
Those people fighting back, they are either pro gg or angry gamers. They have a bunch of sjw crap violating their game so they react and fight back against the agenda. Unfortunately transsexual people become the target as a sjw put in the transsexual as the violator.
Comments
My view is pretty much BGLovers view quoted above.
Also, art is very often political. Have a link.
Also, if inclusion of transgender people and other marginalized people as characters in a video game is political, then so is exclusion of transgender people and other marginalized people. You're trying to have it both ways: Inclusion is political so exclusion is not. It doesn't work that way, not in the real world.
EDIT: Having Viconia in the party really spiced things up. XD
Don't get me wrong I don't think your a concern troll or other. Unless the present obvious concern troll here you don't ask thing for not read the answer.
On another thread on this forum we end up thinking the real problem is the fact one character cannot really goodly explore all what can be say about transidentity. Mizhena is good in her way, it's a character who doesn't have problems with her story and it's good because it's doesn't need in the Realms-lore to have. I find personnaly very refreashing the fact she's trans and involve in multiples quests which doesn't focus on her transness. (I'm very very tired of the "trans character with a painfull trans story about rejection and struggle" which is more or less the only kind of story writer allow for trans characters). Sure Mizhena story and way to go with her own name's story could sound strange to trans person, but it's mainly because we doesn't have a one and only way to deal with ours story even in the real world. Mizhena story match more or less my own experience.
For the "it was proven that's a conscious political choice" i have say on another thread that yes, it is, but it's not the writer fault. Even me as a trans person it's always a conscious and "political" choice when I write trans character. Because our existence will always be remind as "debatable" by people. And when you see the shitstorm that came out almost every time a trans character was release you can't as a writer don't think about it (that not a problem of writing quality. There way more poorly written non-trans character, very way more). In our world writing a trans character is a "political" thing, not writing any it's also one but strangely (sarcasm) Nobody blink an eye in this case. That sad, but that the world fault, not the writer who try to go through this wild spread trans erasure. Imho
On the latter, I am not alone. I am not, in fact, even in the minority. Most gamers have no problems with Anita Sarkeesian or actively support her. This is easily shown by looking at followers - her twitter has over ten times as many followers as are on the entire KiA reddit, and her youtube account has over 200,000.
A small minority of gamers feel Anita Sarkeesian "unduly pokes" them. Most don't. You are certainly entitled to feel she pokes you, but she doesn't poke "gamers" one bit.
It's funny to see the obvious present concern troll here saying they hate when minority are use as a weapon and that we shouldn't trust non-trans people (which they say they are) on this issue but still not read me and the trans-writen article that disagree with them, then return saying they fight for trans people speech and they talk for trans people.
At least it's an entertaining obvious concern troll. Even if they're not really original)
Though, I will say it feels a little odd. We've got lots of superstitious lunatics, racism, nationalism, sexism, and other nasty -isms in Faerun; in BG itself in fact; even stories of jesters being beheaded for passing off a belt of masculinity/femininity to a Duke's lover (even when having the belt removed is a fifteen minute trip to the temple and some pocket change); dudes attacking you in bars because you're stranger adventurers; nobles treating people like crap because they're lower class; etc. Nalia even makes it quite clear that homosexuality would be a scandal.
It just strikes me as a teeny, tiny, itsy, bitsy, bit odd that being trans gets a pass on the bigotry and madness prevalent throughout the realms. It kind of goes back to that thing where it, to me at least, feels rather forced.
Your mileage may vary. Well, thank you for that. I do appreciate it.
If she had enough influence games like the witcher 3 wouldn't exist.
Her points aren't basic, they're typically just wrong or sexist. They often don't stand up to logical scrutiny. She makes statements and claims without actually verifying or validating things (going by her videos). She has factually been proven to be a liar. When people debunk her BS, it's considered harassment. She often spreads obvious misinformation (such as when she said that Hitman encourages you to act upon/kill women and stuff them in trunks, when doing so is actively discouraged by the game because it penalizes you and makes it harder to succeed).
She's absolutely wrong, and she hasn't contributed anything useful to gaming culture at all. She just gets fat sacks of cash and media attention by being an outspoken asshole with as much credibility as Jack Thompson.
Also, it's kind of relevant when somebody asks why you changed your name (which charname does). Because it's obviously wrong. If I don't get it, is it fair to say "You can't get it in the game"? You could say literally any magic item is the "first one" you pick up if you refuse to get any other magic items until that one. You were implying it was common because it was the "first" item you got in the game. But the fact there's only one of them implies exactly the opposite: it's rare. Maybe it's the only one, even! It is a 4th level spell, and people who can cast 4th level spells don't grow on trees. They also don't tend to cast spells for charity. Oh, is that how we're playing this? Sure, man. Okay, in Baldur's Gate, the video game, Polymorph Other turns someone else into a squirrel. That's it. That's all it does. I know "squirrel" rhymes with "girl", but this spell would actually have been no help whatsoever to Mizhena.
In the actual game Baldur's Gate is based on, polymorph other can kill you if you fail a system shock roll (it's based on Con).
So take your pick. Either way, it is not an easy, trivial way of changing gender. I don't think you quite understand. Somebody else actually did the math on this in one of the various threads. It would take a peasant 78 years (IIRC) to save up enough money for this, provided they didn't spend any money on food or clothes.
There are a lot more peasants in the world than tomb-raiding adventurers or landed nobility. Because charname asked why the name she used to have didn't suit her. It didn't suit her because it was a boy's name, and she is not a boy. It's a direct answer to the question asked.
If your charname isn't interested in why Mizhena has a weird name, or why her old name doesn't suit her, your charname doesn't have to ask, and then you never hear about it.
She doesn't give her biography. She answers a direct question, with only the information relevant to the question (which is why charname, for instance, does not find out how and if she magically transitioned). You know, like a normal person would, as opposed to most Baldur's Gate NPCs, who actually blab at you about family tragedies and stolen goods, or try to interest you in illegal schemes, the moment your heavily armed group wanders uninvited into their house.
Please return to your regularly scheduled discussion.
Outside of Baldur's Gate itself, there are spells like disguise self [1st level] (which can allow you to look like any humanoid thing you desire, even if you're not physically accurate), alter self [2nd level] (it's like disguise self but real), and polymorph any object [8th] (while not a low-level spell, its changes are permanent unless you dispel them); and there are magic items like the hat of disguise which is basically 24/7 disguise self, and stuff like that.
Of course this may vary a bit from edition to edition but we're talking about the setting (I think) which includes material across multiple editions.
We can think on a lot of different way the different culture in the Realms handle this subject, and even more way the character handle this. That's more or less a pretty common thing in the Realms to put light on character who doesn't fit the "big" stereotype. That's why we have a sadic halfeling in BG1 who say charname are dumb if they think all halfeling are the same "Nice people" picture there on the D&D description book.
Just like I sayed there no problem with feeling the Mizhena lines somehow forced. Because (and it's sad) even as a trans person I have to force myself for having trans character. But forcing myself or don't doing and write just cis character are two oposite face of the same "political" coin and I'm way more confortable with the "politicaly trying to include trans character" than the "political I don't care about trans existence". The fact is just this dialogue is totally lore-logical, but we all have right to love or not it, I don't question that, I question more when a wave of angry people come here and ask for removing the character because of the dialogue and still say it's not about the trans existence but just because "It's bad written", which is not in fact, it's a pretty good written due to technical limitation and lore-base. Of course, the Mizhena dialogue, and her future rewriting can't please everybody, even "just" every trans people, because there's way to much trans stories and way to go. But I think the response to this problem is more expand the number of trans character and gender lore-related thing and not trying to remove the few one we got.
-according to the Lore polymorph other is intelligence, the danger is your brain changing intelligence. Ie. Chickens are stupid so malicamp sometimes dies stayed too long in a stupid animal, far easier to turn into anything equal or smarter. (bg changed because changing into a dragon is easy)
-She is not a peasant! Why are you posting how much money peasants make? I give 1gold to a random beggar, are you telling me that is an enormous amount? You make no sense.
-I have never had anyone die while casting polymorph other and I use it a moderate amount.
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All of these characters were well received by the people participating in the game, and I've been told some of them felt close to home but also felt pretty "right", or that they felt like people. Be real with yourself, and you'll be real with others simply by consequence. That's fair.
Like the Hitman thing, the attempts to debunk that I've seen have been laughably childish, considering that the penalty is not that harsh and is mitigated by actually hiding the bodies.
She's contributed valuable discussion to gaming culture, it's just that a lot of that culture is invested in keeping the sexist tropes intact and beyond criticism, which is what you're trying to do here.
I love that you invoke Jack Thompson, because Anita hasn't threatened anyone with a lawsuit, nor has she been saying that videogames corrupt people. Also, a gamergater literally turned to Jack Thompson to interview him over how terrible Anita supposedly is. I swear, some people have no sense of irony.
...but the ones who actually oppose all the above, and think that there should be nothing startling or novel about seeing a trans character in popular media. Yep, definitely the "real enemy".
Out of curiosity: If "SJWs" are "evil", in your mind, what exactly is someone who makes a youtube video killing transsexuals over and over? How should somebody stand by transsexuals in that case?