There is literally nothing sinister about the first quote. She's just saying she found a couple of characters written with sexist tropes, and a desire to do better. There's nothing wrong with this.
The second quote is in response to people calling her an SJW. That's the only reason she says she is one, because people are calling her that. And the reason they are calling her that is because of Hexxat, if I recall correctly. It's a convenient quote to take out of context, but doesn't quite mean what you say it means.
First quote: Yes there is. First of all the characters are written with a fantasy medievel setting as background. That's not automatically sexist. And Jaheira is not nagging any more than Amber Scott herself reportedly is. In fact, if what is said about Scott and what she's said IS true, my vote would go for Jaheira any day. Point is: Jaheira is how she is - for good or bad. She doesn't need changing.
Second quote: I strongly advise Scott and Beamdog in general not to make the game their personal political playground or arena for vengeance. That's just not professional.
The nerds in lotr go nuts about canon stuff, and going nuts isn't on the news or anything just flooding forums. Most iv seen and heard believe she is poorly implemented, I agree with them, but slap minsc saying ethics, female behaviour swaps writers saying they are sjw and the devs handling of the situation. All that together screams agenda and kahboom. Big problems, he'll it's even on YouTube. It's enough of a change of how the original stuff isn't to put beamdog more into the "sjw" bracket sort of thing. It could all be a coincidence iv no idea, hard to imagine tho.
Well her implementation is being improved, so there's that.
When the writer said she was an SJW, it was in response to people calling her one for including a lesbian vampire in BG2:EE. She basically said "if you want to view me like that, then go ahead."
I don't think there's a sinister agenda here. There might be an agenda here but there are agendas everywhere. For the past week my agenda was watching Dark Souls videos and today's agenda was seeing how well Dark Souls III ran on my computer. Tomorrow's agenda is going to be to play Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition.
Agendas are a thing, but not a sinister thing. I mean there can be sinister agendas, but they rarely include "I think I want to write a transgender NPC in this game I'm working on."
Scientology's are just plain stupid, but theyr beliefs are fun to talk and read about. Does saying that make me a bad person?
I wish it were that simple, but that threatens to derail us very far away from Baldur's Gate. In short, no it doesn't make you a bad person. You want to talk about sinister agendas, though, and there's plenty of material to work with here.
Amber scott "In the original there's a lot of jokes at women's expense. Or if not a lot, there's a couple, like Safana was just a sex object in BG 1, and Jaheira was the nagging wife and that was played for comedy. We were able to say, ‘No, that's not really the kind of story we want to make.' In Siege of Dragonspear, Safana gets her own little storyline, she got a way better personality upgrade. If people don't like that, then too bad."
"I consciously add as much diversity as I can to my writing and I don’t care if people think that’s “forced” or fake. I find choosing to write from a straight default just as artificial. I’m happy to be an SJW and I hope to write many Social Justice Games in the future”
It's not hard to connect the dots with so much that has happened, coincidence? Maybe, but doubtful.
There is literally nothing sinister about the first quote. She's just saying she found a couple of characters written with sexist tropes, and a desire to do better. There's nothing wrong with this.
The second quote is in response to people calling her an SJW. That's the only reason she says she is one, because people are calling her that. And the reason they are calling her that is because of Hexxat, if I recall correctly. It's a convenient quote to take out of context, but doesn't quite mean what you say it means.
Well I find alot of it to be completely the wrong attitude, for a very well Established, very rich lore driven medieval fantasy game.
Look, I don't have much of a dog in that fight but, I think the reason Mephiston doesn't trust SJWs is because that the accusation of pushing for equal numbers is the goal rather than equality. Equality would be everyone having the same opportunities, equal numbers is having quotas, regardless of people's interests. Everything about SJWs is vitriolic and hateful. Look at how people are talking to Mephiston for simply speaking about a concern that he has. Look at how people have spoken to me, for voicing a concern about how we're depicted and what kind of effect it's having on people's perceptions of us.
For someone who doesn't have "much of a dog in that fight" you seem to be reciting the standard talking points.
What you're describing is straw SJWs. They don't exist.
There's a lot of very well thought out and well explained examples of why SJWs, feminism, and related movements aren't doing very well. I will even link to some examples, if asked (preferably politely). However, there's enough problems going on surrounding these things, and it's only getting worse. We're already seeing companies censor their games (like Rainbow Mika is SF5), stores pulling games from shelves, and people pressuring companies like Obsidian to change their content.
And, unfortunately, a lot of the poop-slinging works. I think a number of gamers are beginning to realize that. Gamers are now expressing their displeasure with companies in much the same way those who are against them are doing, because it apparently gets results. I suspect it's only going to get uglier from here, with each new battle fueling the fire.
Nobody is against game companies. The people who are protesting content in games (such as the transphobic limerick in Pillars of Eternity) are gamers themselves. They're not trying to ruin games or game companies. Their complaints are often valid, but are presented as invalid by people who'd prefer to not have to face the fact that oppression is a real thing - which is where you're placing yourself with all these gamergatesque talking points about how SJWs are terrible people.
The problem with Mephiston's complaints and your attempt to shore up his complaints is that these SJWs don't exist. There are people who are called SJWs, but they pretty much never do the stuff that Mephiston and you are claiming they do. But what do I know? I'm just an activist who's been at it for several years.
Oh yeah, that limerick in Pillars of Eternity that was removed was a joke about discovering that a woman is "really a man." Which is to say it is directly targeted at trans women. It is also what many of the cisgender men who murder transgender women use as the reason for murdering them when trying to get out from under the murder charge - that they were so enraged by discovering that the transgender woman was transgender they had no choice but to kill her. The limerick carried a lot of baggage, and it was best to remove it for that reason.
Similar to why it was appropriate to remove the "ethics in heroic adventuring" line from Minsc. It a) doesn't add anything to the game and b) even if not intended that way, its existence primarily antagonizes people.
It's not all about the tranny like alotta people seem to believe, its the whole thing inter woven that is the problem. Yeh Jaheira was slightly nagging but she had bigger balls then most and was the strongest female in the game. She was the hot ballsy mother character. Not a nagging wife.
While i do understand that i still think this whole affair is blown out of proportion. It seems to me that people think amber was talking about the jahira in BG2 NOT the Jahira in BG1. In Bg 1 she was more naggy then anything (mostly i think due to none of the NPC having a fleshed out personality) , in BG2 she was awsome and strong (and hot )
The last time someone showed me evidence of why "SJWs are bad people and must be punished" I got:
* Links to troll blogs that were run by anti-social justice types * Links to joke posts * Links to people saying SJWs were horrible people out to ruin anything * And a laundry list of actions that were not actually that bad taken in context
I have yet to see a well-argued case for so-called "SJWs" existing, let alone being such horrible people.
It's not all about the tranny like alotta people seem to believe, its the whole thing inter woven that is the problem. Yeh Jaheira was slightly nagging but she had bigger balls then most and was the strongest female in the game. She was the hot ballsy mother character. Not a nagging wife.
While i do understand that i still think this whole affair is blown out of proportion. It seems to me that people think amber was talking about the jahira in BG2 NOT the Jahira in BG1. In Bg 1 she was more naggy then anything (mostly i think due to none of the NPC having a fleshed out personality) , in BG2 she was awsome and strong (and hot )
Then again alot is based in opinions.
Aaah your. Screwing with my childhood, bg1 and bg2 it's the same chick shhhhh llalalalalala
I Always ditched Khalid, so Maybe the nagging was then?
The last time someone showed me evidence of why "SJWs are bad people and must be punished" I got:
* Links to troll blogs that were run by anti-social justice types * Links to joke posts * Links to people saying SJWs were horrible people out to ruin anything * And a laundry list of actions that were not actually that bad taken in context
I have yet to see a well-argued case for so-called "SJWs" existing, let alone being such horrible people.
I explained it a few pages back pretty well, they are evil. They want equality which most would think is good, but in a lore driven game it's horrible.
I'm jealous of how u write so well. I just blurt crap out, you make it look classy and official.
Thanks, I appreciate it.
I just want to talk, y'know? I've loved Baldur's Gate since I was like...13 or so? I follow a lot of these things too, because I've been playing games since I was 2 (not exaggerating) and I really hate the toxicity surrounding our culture these days, especially from people like Anita Sarkeesian who aren't part of that culture. Though anecdotal, I've always found gamers (both in video game and tabletop gaming) to be among the most accepting of subcultures that I've ever seen or been a part of.
I explained it a few pages back pretty well, they are evil. They want equality which most would think is good, but in a lore driven game it's horrible.
I saw your explanation. Those people do not exist. There's no one out there demanding to have equal numbers of all minorities with majorities. They don't exist. You've set up a straw man. And evil? Are you serious? Are those the same fingers that typed that the Church of Scientology is just stupid? You have a very peculiar idea of what "evil" means.
I do think you're confusing a desire for representation with some kind of idea of "equality" that no one is pushing for. Not Amber Scott, not the lead guy, not Trent Oster.
What you're describing is straw SJWs. They don't exist.
Toujours be fair there people on social network who use social justice warrior on their biography. I do. Mostly because at first some angry person have use this term to insult me.
But that sound so cool in fact ! Seriously it sound like a paladin advanced class. And it's so funnily declinable in a lot of other cool advanced-class-like-names like social justice rogue, social justice arcana mage or social justice otamatone (you don't wanna google what otamatone mean, believe me).
I'm a bit out of the thread subject I think. But since some people bring scientology in the subject I pretty sure it's not big deal.
What you're describing is straw SJWs. They don't exist.
Toujours be fair there people on social network who use social justice warrior on their biography. I do. Mostly because at first some angry person have use this term to insult me.
But that sound so cool in fact ! Seriously it sound like a paladin advanced class. And it's so funnily declinable in a lot of other cool advanced-class-like-names like social justice rogue, social justice arcana mage or social justice otamatone (you don't wanna google what otamatone mean, believe me).
I'm a bit out of the thread subject I think. But since some people bring scientology in the subject I pretty sure it's not big deal.
(Otamatone power)
People call themselves SJW because of the backlash against social justice activism, but what Ashiel and Mephiston are describing are mythical creatures. Heck, I called myself a Social Justice Sorciere the other day. But that doesn't mean anything that Mephiston has said is true about me.
What you're describing is straw SJWs. They don't exist.
Toujours be fair there people on social network who use social justice warrior on their biography. I do. Mostly because at first some angry person have use this term to insult me.
But that sound so cool in fact ! Seriously it sound like a paladin advanced class. And it's so funnily declinable in a lot of other cool advanced-class-like-names like social justice rogue, social justice arcana mage or social justice otamatone (you don't wanna google what otamatone mean, believe me).
I'm a bit out of the thread subject I think. But since some people bring scientology in the subject I pretty sure it's not big deal.
(Otamatone power)
People call themselves SJW because of the backlash against social justice activism, but what Ashiel and Mephiston are describing are mythical creatures. Heck, I called myself a Social Justice Sorciere the other day. But that doesn't mean anything that Mephiston has said is true about me.
If they don't exist why did all that gamergate crap happen? They do exist and there is alot of them. It's scary if they got what they wanted.
Aaah your. Screwing with my childhood, bg1 and bg2 it's the same chick shhhhh llalalalalala
I Always ditched Khalid, so Maybe the nagging was then?
You cannot ditch Khalid he was attached to Jahira unless.... MURDERER !!!! I Guess a lot of the nagging came from interaction (limited as it was) between the two, no Khalid no nagging.
I'm jealous of how u write so well. I just blurt crap out, you make it look classy and official.
Thanks, I appreciate it.
I just want to talk, y'know? I've loved Baldur's Gate since I was like...13 or so? I follow a lot of these things too, because I've been playing games since I was 2 (not exaggerating) and I really hate the toxicity surrounding our culture these days, especially from people like Anita Sarkeesian who aren't part of that culture. Though anecdotal, I've always found gamers (both in video game and tabletop gaming) to be among the most accepting of subcultures that I've ever seen or been a part of.
It hurts to see it becoming like this.
I find them to be the most accepting too... Until you screw with their games! Then it's a whole lot of insanely smart people going at each other and shit hits the fan. But when they are happy they are the best. Console gamers(no offence at all to them) can get very brutal often... But they have such an insanely large audience.
Aaah your. Screwing with my childhood, bg1 and bg2 it's the same chick shhhhh llalalalalala
I Always ditched Khalid, so Maybe the nagging was then?
You cannot ditch Khalid he was attached to Jahira unless.... MURDERER !!!! I Guess a lot of the nagging came from interaction (limited as it was) between the two, no Khalid no nagging.
Actually I just took him to the top of the friendly arm inn aLone and removed him from Group, he couldn't talk to me so jaheira stayed and everything went as normal.
Look, I don't have much of a dog in that fight but, I think the reason Mephiston doesn't trust SJWs is because that the accusation of pushing for equal numbers is the goal rather than equality. Equality would be everyone having the same opportunities, equal numbers is having quotas, regardless of people's interests. Everything about SJWs is vitriolic and hateful. Look at how people are talking to Mephiston for simply speaking about a concern that he has. Look at how people have spoken to me, for voicing a concern about how we're depicted and what kind of effect it's having on people's perceptions of us.
For someone who doesn't have "much of a dog in that fight" you seem to be reciting the standard talking points.
What you're describing is straw SJWs. They don't exist.
They do exist. People like Anita Sarkeesian exist. People like those who got that one Dead or Alive game pulled from some store shelves in Australia exist. I've met some of them. I've watched them bully people. We have real issues that need addressing, but we end up with stupid stuff like "manspreading" and vitriolic terms like "mansplaining".
Look, I've got eyes and ears, so please don't tell me it's raining when I can watch someone pissing on my shoes.
Nobody is against game companies. The people who are protesting content in games (such as the transphobic limerick in Pillars of Eternity) are gamers themselves. They're not trying to ruin games or game companies. Their complaints are often valid, but are presented as invalid by people who'd prefer to not have to face the fact that oppression is a real thing - which is where you're placing yourself with all these gamergatesque talking points about how SJWs are terrible people.
I've no beef with the GamerGate movement, but I've lots of beef with the same people they seem to have beef with, for many of the same reasons they claim to have beef with them, so it's possible that occasionally there will be overlap.
The problem with Mephiston's complaints and your attempt to shore up his complaints is that these SJWs don't exist. There are people who are called SJWs, but they pretty much never do the stuff that Mephiston and you are claiming they do. But what do I know? I'm just an activist who's been at it for several years.
Yeah, and I'm a (mostly) regular person who has to deal with it, read about it, facepalm about it, hold my head in shame as I watch people around me react as I'd expect and begin linking their bad behavior, lies, and poor logic with people who fall into the LGBT community.
I don't care if you're an activist. That means nothing to me until you give it a reason for it to mean something to me.
Oh yeah, that limerick in Pillars of Eternity that was removed was a joke about discovering that a woman is "really a man." Which is to say it is directly targeted at trans women.
Yeah, I know. I have the game. I read the poem. I laughed.
It is also what many of the cisgender men who murder transgender women use as the reason for murdering them when trying to get out from under the murder charge - that they were so enraged by discovering that the transgender woman was transgender they had no choice but to kill her.
Putting aside that he killed himself, that's happened around here where I live. A man and a transwoman met at a bar and were going to hook up, over a few drinks, one thing led to another, then when they were in the act of having sex, he found that she was...not entirely female. I hated hearing about that, because he did go into a mad fit and killed her.
But, I thought about it and y'know...I understand why he did it, at least in part. The confusion, anger at the deception, the feeling of being used, of lied to, to suddenly have his desire turned on its head as his sexuality was assaulted. He never should have killed her, but she should have been strait with him about what he was getting into, rather than creating that situation in the first place. There was a level of shared guilt to that situation, and the anger went too far.
Similar to why it was appropriate to remove the "ethics in heroic adventuring" line from Minsc. It a) doesn't add anything to the game and b) even if not intended that way, its existence primarily antagonizes people.
HA nice move i never thought of that. I always felt bad when i had him killed to get jahira in my party
I do it to dynaheir sometimes too, but always Khalid. He's an OK guy but ajantis+minsc are my front liner humans along with me being a fighter. Ranger+paladin+fighter= perfect variety of front liners and I swap ajantis for Keldorn in no.2, keldorns stat's and instant cast dispels are Epic
I usually played with Khalid and Jaheira in my party way back when, 'cause I kinda sucked at the game and didn't know what I was doing. As a result, both, including Khalid are old friends of mine and I'll often keep them around. I was sad about Khalid in BG II.
However, having been re-playing BG I in recent years, I've found much love for Ajantis. I highly recommend the BG1-NPC project mod. It makes the game infinitely better. The last party I was playing with included my main (a cavalier), Ajantis, Imoen, Minsc, Khalid, and Jaheria. I wanted to pick up Dorn, but Ajantis was being whiny and I dumped Ajantis for Dorn because Ajantis was the one causing problems in that situation.
Though in one recent playthrough, I had a party of Protagonist, Imoen (dual-mage of course), Dynaheir, Edwin, Minsc, and Ajantis. Dynaheir's growing on me a lot, and I get some sort of naughty pleasure keeping Edwin in the party to grumble about her continued existence.
I usually played with Khalid and Jaheira in my party way back when, 'cause I kinda sucked at the game and didn't know what I was doing. As a result, both, including Khalid are old friends of mine and I'll often keep them around. I was sad about Khalid in BG II.
However, having been re-playing BG I in recent years, I've found much love for Ajantis. I highly recommend the BG1-NPC project mod. It makes the game infinitely better. The last party I was playing with included my main (a cavalier), Ajantis, Imoen, Minsc, Khalid, and Jaheria. I wanted to pick up Dorn, but Ajantis was being whiny and I dumped Ajantis for Dorn because Ajantis was the one causing problems in that situation.
You roll with a similar group to me, ajantis can be tough if you don't get your rep up fast, he is a paladin after all. Paladins struggle with neutral Parties more then a normal character would. But it is in line with the Lore. I haven't tried many mods yet, for the moment I think k they are broken anyway. But I was interested in that one the most.
Though in one recent playthrough, I had a party of Protagonist, Imoen (dual-mage of course), Dynaheir, Edwin, Minsc, and Ajantis. Dynaheir's growing on me a lot, and I get some sort of naughty pleasure keeping Edwin in the party to grumble about her continued existence.
Edwin will eventually kill dynaheir and minsc will then kill Edwin. It's fun to watch. That happened last time I tried that type Of Group.
I'll admit, I usually play with the Gibberlings3 mods, and I usually enable the option to keep your party members from slaughtering each other, so I don't think I was worried about that at the time. I also pranced about with Xzar and Montaron in the party with Khalid and Jaheira for a long time, though imagine my surprise back when I was a kid when 4/6ths of my party suddenly burst into spell-slinging fisticuffs.
I'll admit, I usually play with the Gibberlings3 mods, and I usually enable the option to keep your party members from slaughtering each other, so I don't think I was worried about that at the time. I also pranced about with Xzar and Montaron in the party with Khalid and Jaheira for a long time, though imagine my surprise back when I was a kid when 4/6ths of my party suddenly burst into spell-slinging fisticuffs.
My first attempt at the game was that. Had no clue there were so many more followers
Haha, ditto. I just kind of accepted them along and thought that Xzar and Monte were such fine chaps to be so helpful on the road. Didn't even notice at first that they were evil (I was young and naive). In fact, I even wished I coulda got Xzar and Monte back in the BG II quest they're wrapped up in.
We have real issues that need addressing, but we end up with stupid stuff like "manspreading"
I think you've said you live in the Bible Belt, so I assume that you have personal space to spare. I wouldn't expect you to understand the rage induced by this egregious violation of the unwritten Law of the Subway.
Something just came to me. Interestingly, there is a trans character in Dark Souls. For some reason, that never threw up a shitstorm. Perhaps, and I mean just maybe, there is something wrong with the presentation of the character in this game.
Something just came to me. Interestingly, there is a trans character in Dark Souls. For some reason, that never threw up a shitstorm. Perhaps, and I mean just maybe, there is something wrong with the presentation of the character in this game.
Correlation is not causation, though. That's like saying there was never a shitstorm about Arcade in Fallout, so any of the dozens of documented backlashes against gay characters in games past must have all been about the writing.
Comments
Point is: Jaheira is how she is - for good or bad. She doesn't need changing.
Second quote: I strongly advise Scott and Beamdog in general not to make the game their personal political playground or arena for vengeance. That's just not professional.
What you're describing is straw SJWs. They don't exist. Nobody is against game companies. The people who are protesting content in games (such as the transphobic limerick in Pillars of Eternity) are gamers themselves. They're not trying to ruin games or game companies. Their complaints are often valid, but are presented as invalid by people who'd prefer to not have to face the fact that oppression is a real thing - which is where you're placing yourself with all these gamergatesque talking points about how SJWs are terrible people.
The problem with Mephiston's complaints and your attempt to shore up his complaints is that these SJWs don't exist. There are people who are called SJWs, but they pretty much never do the stuff that Mephiston and you are claiming they do. But what do I know? I'm just an activist who's been at it for several years.
Oh yeah, that limerick in Pillars of Eternity that was removed was a joke about discovering that a woman is "really a man." Which is to say it is directly targeted at trans women. It is also what many of the cisgender men who murder transgender women use as the reason for murdering them when trying to get out from under the murder charge - that they were so enraged by discovering that the transgender woman was transgender they had no choice but to kill her. The limerick carried a lot of baggage, and it was best to remove it for that reason.
Similar to why it was appropriate to remove the "ethics in heroic adventuring" line from Minsc. It a) doesn't add anything to the game and b) even if not intended that way, its existence primarily antagonizes people.
Then again alot is based in opinions.
* Links to troll blogs that were run by anti-social justice types
* Links to joke posts
* Links to people saying SJWs were horrible people out to ruin anything
* And a laundry list of actions that were not actually that bad taken in context
I have yet to see a well-argued case for so-called "SJWs" existing, let alone being such horrible people.
I Always ditched Khalid, so Maybe the nagging was then?
I just want to talk, y'know? I've loved Baldur's Gate since I was like...13 or so? I follow a lot of these things too, because I've been playing games since I was 2 (not exaggerating) and I really hate the toxicity surrounding our culture these days, especially from people like Anita Sarkeesian who aren't part of that culture. Though anecdotal, I've always found gamers (both in video game and tabletop gaming) to be among the most accepting of subcultures that I've ever seen or been a part of.
It hurts to see it becoming like this.
I do think you're confusing a desire for representation with some kind of idea of "equality" that no one is pushing for. Not Amber Scott, not the lead guy, not Trent Oster.
But that sound so cool in fact ! Seriously it sound like a paladin advanced class. And it's so funnily declinable in a lot of other cool advanced-class-like-names like social justice rogue, social justice arcana mage or social justice otamatone (you don't wanna google what otamatone mean, believe me).
I'm a bit out of the thread subject I think. But since some people bring scientology in the subject I pretty sure it's not big deal.
(Otamatone power)
Actually I just took him to the top of the friendly arm inn aLone and removed him from Group, he couldn't talk to me so jaheira stayed and everything went as normal.
Look, I've got eyes and ears, so please don't tell me it's raining when I can watch someone pissing on my shoes.
I don't care if you're an activist. That means nothing to me until you give it a reason for it to mean something to me. Yeah, I know. I have the game. I read the poem. I laughed. Putting aside that he killed himself, that's happened around here where I live. A man and a transwoman met at a bar and were going to hook up, over a few drinks, one thing led to another, then when they were in the act of having sex, he found that she was...not entirely female. I hated hearing about that, because he did go into a mad fit and killed her.
But, I thought about it and y'know...I understand why he did it, at least in part. The confusion, anger at the deception, the feeling of being used, of lied to, to suddenly have his desire turned on its head as his sexuality was assaulted. He never should have killed her, but she should have been strait with him about what he was getting into, rather than creating that situation in the first place. There was a level of shared guilt to that situation, and the anger went too far. One exists to antagonize, the other wasn't.
However, having been re-playing BG I in recent years, I've found much love for Ajantis. I highly recommend the BG1-NPC project mod. It makes the game infinitely better. The last party I was playing with included my main (a cavalier), Ajantis, Imoen, Minsc, Khalid, and Jaheria. I wanted to pick up Dorn, but Ajantis was being whiny and I dumped Ajantis for Dorn because Ajantis was the one causing problems in that situation.