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What would you like to see done (if anything) about Mizhena

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Comments

  • FrekFrek Member Posts: 15
    Really? After all that has gone on, this is being brought up again. Personally, I think the way this was handled from start to finish was off putting and as unprofessional as could be. I won't rehash arguments here but I will just simply say this whole thing has cost you a sale from me. Did you think that the toxic environment and not letting people talk about this on the forums was going to win over those with different opinions?

    I really don't know what it is you hope to accomplish here. Those that voted with their wallet aren't likely to even take notice of anything you do change, or don't change. In fact, making any changes is just going to reignite the whole thing.

  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,683
    edited August 2016
    Frek said:

    Really? After all that has gone on, this is being brought up again. Personally, I think the way this was handled from start to finish was off putting and as unprofessional as could be. I won't rehash arguments here but I will just simply say this whole thing has cost you a sale from me. Did you think that the toxic environment and not letting people talk about this on the forums was going to win over those with different opinions?

    I really don't know what it is you hope to accomplish here. Those that voted with their wallet aren't likely to even take notice of anything you do change, or don't change. In fact, making any changes is just going to reignite the whole thing.

    Point here is: If you don't ask for very specific contend that put Mizhena into a pedestal of amazingness and awe, you're a heartless bastard. So, act with her like you would do with any other character and... jesus, what an prejudice bastard!!!

    It's more or less that dude.

  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    edited August 2016
    kamuizin said:

    Point here is: If you don't ask for very specific contend that put Mizhena into a pedestal of amazingness and awe, you're a heartless bastard. So, act with her like you would do with any other character and... jesus, what an prejudice bastard!!!

    You suggested a "prejudice quest option", you miserable cretin. Don't get mad because you told on yourself and other people picked up on it.

    GenderNihilismGirdleAndrewFoley
  • BelleSorciereBelleSorciere Member Posts: 2,108
    I was hoping those "critical" (definitely intended scare quotes) of Mizhena's appearance might have a new argument to make but apparently it is a physical impossibility in this universe to introduce new talking points instead of rehashing the same talking points that have been rehashed over and over and over and over and over again.

    Not that we really need new talking points, because the agenda is sufficiently telling.

    shawneGenderNihilismGirdleAyiekieSeraph
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member Posts: 14,418
    People sometimes act like they're getting silenced, even as they repeatedly and loudly voice their opinion, without anyone stopping them. If your post didn't get deleted or edited, and you weren't suspended or banned, no one is silencing you.

    AyiekieGrumGenderNihilismGirdle
  • namarienamarie Member Posts: 52
    I was going to vote option 1 since I think Mizhena's line is perfectly fine as is. but then I thought, instead of a one-line summary, why not give her some more background? This can be easily integrated without having to come up with quests centered around her. The quest given by Simonetta Twoedged (which involves talking to various members of the coalition to learn about their purpose in the war) seems like a perfect opportunity. Perhaps there are some more layers to Mizhena's motivations in joining the campaign than "Tempus called, and I answered". That way we might be able to get a closer glimpse at her past... Just my two cents

    GenderNihilismGirdleAyiekie
  • GenderNihilismGirdleGenderNihilismGirdle Member Posts: 1,353

    People sometimes act like they're getting silenced, even as they repeatedly and loudly voice their opinion, without anyone stopping them. If your post didn't get deleted or edited, and you weren't suspended or banned, no one is silencing you.

    Like I said earlier, projection is a helluva drug. Some people disagree with people in order to silence them, and get all confused when disagreement doesn't mean what they deploy it for.

    shawne
  • NihilusNihilus Member Posts: 192
    People can and do make discussions about Aran Linvail or Valen in this forum, right? And they were minor NPCs created in the year 2000. By the same token, you can expect discussions about Mizhena in the year 2032.

    For example, I am going to offer my two cents on Mizhena now, because while Siege of Dragonspear was released months ago, I have only started playing it very recently.

    First of all, while all this controversy surrounding her is obviously overblown (she is nowhere near as annoying as Zaviak the stoner hippie), I did find her cringeworthy. I found it jarring when she said she created her name by combining syllables from different languages. It just makes it look like multiple proggressive themes (LGBT visibility/representation and multiculturalism) were packed into one minor NPC.

    Another thing is the fact that she is a priest of Tempus. It would have been certainly poignant if she were a priestess of Ilmater, finding acceptance and mercy after going through hardship in her early years, or perhaps if she were a priestess of Lathander, since hers is a story of rebirth and renewal. But no, she had to be a priestess of Tempus; a transwoman AND a servant of god whose portfolio is very masculine. "Let's invert expectations for no reason." Maybe that's not how it was intended, but that's how it felt like to me.

    mrhedgehog
  • IakusIakus Member Posts: 30
    kamuizin said:



    4° - At last, some prejudice quest option could be introduced, cos i play with a lot of characters, and some could get along well with Mizhena's choice, others would joke about it (some of my chars would joke about anything and i don't see why make exceptions here), others would be embarassed and would leave with something of "eerrm... interesting. I have to go now cos i forgot hummmm.... something important! Yes, something important", and some would be blatant rude with her.

    To be honest, in many BG dialogue situations there's a "good" a "neutral" and an "evil" response. So I would have expected responses to be something akin to

    1) You go girl!
    2) Okay, that's a bit more information than I wanted...
    3) EWWWWWW!!!

    Or something along those lines.

    But in the end, Mizhena's a very minor character. I mean, I rarely even talk to the temple merchants in the vanilla game. Why start now?

    kamuizin
  • AyiekieAyiekie Member Posts: 931
    Nihilus said:


    Another thing is the fact that she is a priest of Tempus. It would have been certainly poignant if she were a priestess of Ilmater, finding acceptance and mercy after going through hardship in her early years, or perhaps if she were a priestess of Lathander, since hers is a story of rebirth and renewal. But no, she had to be a priestess of Tempus; a transwoman AND a servant of god whose portfolio is very masculine. "Let's invert expectations for no reason." Maybe that's not how it was intended, but that's how it felt like to me.

    Y'mean, like Branwen, who has "overcoming male prejudice to join the priesthood of Tempus" as part of her given backstory?

    Also, Mizhena's behaviour during the item theft subquest shows she's pretty temperamentally suited to an aggressively "masculine" priesthood.

  • KuronaKurona Member Posts: 881
    Not to mention, why would transgenders base everything in their life, including the matters of faith, around the history of their gender identity?

    Ayiekie
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,683
    edited September 2016
    shawne said:

    kamuizin said:

    Point here is: If you don't ask for very specific contend that put Mizhena into a pedestal of amazingness and awe, you're a heartless bastard. So, act with her like you would do with any other character and... jesus, what an prejudice bastard!!!

    You suggested a "prejudice quest option", you miserable cretin. Don't get mad because you told on yourself and other people picked up on it.
    So it's this: in the apparently favor of minority, offensive behavior is ok @Dee? I suggested realistic behaviors that bring the game closes to reality, which improve the experience. Do i have to limit my game experience to the fantasy of fantasy for you "feelings"?

    Freedom of opinion is only legit if i sing your song, i see.

    By the way, i made a lot of suggestions there AND "YES"!!!! I suggested Prejudiced content do be introduced, because it EXISTS, and when i play evil characters i don't slaughter ppl but refrain me from prejudice others because that's not politically correct. I ALSO "COMPLAINED" that they made the character shallow, almost as to shut mouths about minority rights, with that i followed suggesting quests involving the point she raised.

    Get that now @shawne!? Now take your hipocrisy elsewhere.

    Obs: @Dee, i'm really asking here for some action. @Shawne is an active member of this community, i know, and is also an excelent and important modder of the community, but rules are rules that that's blatant offense.

  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,683
    edited September 2016
    Nihilus said:

    People can and do make discussions about Aran Linvail or Valen in this forum, right? And they were minor NPCs created in the year 2000. By the same token, you can expect discussions about Mizhena in the year 2032.

    For example, I am going to offer my two cents on Mizhena now, because while Siege of Dragonspear was released months ago, I have only started playing it very recently.

    First of all, while all this controversy surrounding her is obviously overblown (she is nowhere near as annoying as Zaviak the stoner hippie), I did find her cringeworthy. I found it jarring when she said she created her name by combining syllables from different languages. It just makes it look like multiple proggressive themes (LGBT visibility/representation and multiculturalism) were packed into one minor NPC.

    Another thing is the fact that she is a priest of Tempus. It would have been certainly poignant if she were a priestess of Ilmater, finding acceptance and mercy after going through hardship in her early years, or perhaps if she were a priestess of Lathander, since hers is a story of rebirth and renewal. But no, she had to be a priestess of Tempus; a transwoman AND a servant of god whose portfolio is very masculine. "Let's invert expectations for no reason." Maybe that's not how it was intended, but that's how it felt like to me.

    Not exactly that @Nihilus, Tempus ins't chauvinism, but barbarians, that sum an large amount of his worshippers, are. He favors honor in battle (battle rules), stregh and courage. I'm ok with Miz being a hammer.

    Ayiekie said:

    Nihilus said:


    Another thing is the fact that she is a priest of Tempus. It would have been certainly poignant if she were a priestess of Ilmater, finding acceptance and mercy after going through hardship in her early years, or perhaps if she were a priestess of Lathander, since hers is a story of rebirth and renewal. But no, she had to be a priestess of Tempus; a transwoman AND a servant of god whose portfolio is very masculine. "Let's invert expectations for no reason." Maybe that's not how it was intended, but that's how it felt like to me.

    Y'mean, like Branwen, who has "overcoming male prejudice to join the priesthood of Tempus" as part of her given backstory?

    Also, Mizhena's behaviour during the item theft subquest shows she's pretty temperamentally suited to an aggressively "masculine" priesthood.
    Branwen came from a barbarian tribe if i'm not wrong. She had to overcome culture prejudice, not ethos prejudice from her tribe, if i'm not wrong. I have to read her biography again, to be certain.

  • CalmarCalmar Member Posts: 688
    I don't think Mizhena has any negative effect on the game. I think the happiness she might bring to players who wish to meet transgender NPCs in BG has, in my opinion, more weight than the dislike from people who can simply ignore her and go on with the game very much unbothered.
    To me, the inclusiveness towards various sexual identities is insofar rather uninteresting as I play fantasy RPGS most of all to explore ancient ruins, hunt for treasure and fight wicked monsters. As far as I'm concerned, there need not necessarily even be any heterosexual romances at all.
    I don't mind content like the discussion of sexual identity, character optimization, or Werewolf Island, that can easily be ignored if desired.

  • GenderNihilismGirdleGenderNihilismGirdle Member Posts: 1,353
    @shawne I also find it interesting that when @Ayiekie literally did a serious point by point response to each of his original points he never bothered to read and respond to it although he takes the time to pretend bigotry isn't bigotry so he can avoid the title that goes with his behaviour...it seems like he has some...ahem...priorities in this discussion.

    shawneAyiekie
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239

    @shawne I also find it interesting that when @Ayiekie literally did a serious point by point response to each of his original points he never bothered to read and respond to it although he takes the time to pretend bigotry isn't bigotry so he can avoid the title that goes with his behaviour...it seems like he has some...ahem...priorities in this discussion.

    He's being persecuted, doncha know.

    GenderNihilismGirdleKurona
  • GenderNihilismGirdleGenderNihilismGirdle Member Posts: 1,353
    shawne said:

    @shawne I also find it interesting that when @Ayiekie literally did a serious point by point response to each of his original points he never bothered to read and respond to it although he takes the time to pretend bigotry isn't bigotry so he can avoid the title that goes with his behaviour...it seems like he has some...ahem...priorities in this discussion.

    He's being persecuted, doncha know.
    It's not persecution that we keep taking the dialogue options that check for Int and Wis in this thread and those are greyed out for him, that's just a bad roll. I'm sure there are some tomes around somewhere to help with that.

    shawne
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239

    It's not persecution that we keep taking the dialogue options that check for Int and Wis in this thread and those are greyed out for him, that's just a bad roll. I'm sure there are some tomes around somewhere to help with that.

    image

    GenderNihilismGirdle
  • NihilusNihilus Member Posts: 192
    Ayiekie said:

    Y'mean, like Branwen, who has "overcoming male prejudice to join the priesthood of Tempus" as part of her given backstory?

    If Mizhena were a transman, a valid comparison could be made with Branwen. But Mizhena is a transwoman. She was biologically born male, finds out she is actually female AND THEN chooses to serve the god with the most masculine portfolio in Forgotten Realms.

  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    Nihilus said:

    If Mizhena were a transman, a valid comparison could be made with Branwen. But Mizhena is a transwoman. She was biologically born male, finds out she is actually female AND THEN chooses to serve the god with the most masculine portfolio in Forgotten Realms.

    You're looking at the wrong part of that word. Branwen is a woman who serves Tempus. Mizhena is also a woman who serves Tempus. Accalia from Icewind Dale serves Tempus. Saleska Mintharl serves Tempus. Saerelia Ashley from the Four from Cormyr module serves Tempus. Clearly, you're either wrong about Tempus having "the most masculine portfolio" or he doesn't much care, in which case why should you?

    GenderNihilismGirdleKuronaGrum
  • NihilusNihilus Member Posts: 192
    shawne said:

    You're looking at the wrong part of that word. Branwen is a woman who serves Tempus. Mizhena is also a woman who serves Tempus. Accalia from Icewind Dale serves Tempus. Saleska Mintharl serves Tempus. Saerelia Ashley from the Four from Cormyr module serves Tempus. Clearly, you're either wrong about Tempus having "the most masculine portfolio" or he doesn't much care, in which case why should you?

    You must have misunderstood, I wasn't denying the existence of Tempus' female servants.

    I'm not familiar with the others, but let's take Branwen for instance. I would say she is easily the most "masculine" female companion in the game after maybe Shar-Teel. To me, that's why it makes sense for Branwen to be a priestess of Tempus and not Aerie/Alora/Imoen/Skie or other obviously more feminine female companions.

    Now Mizhena. She is a woman, but a transwoman, to be precise. So she had a journey of discovery in her early years from masculinity to femininity. Great. Now why would she make a U turn and choose Tempus of all gods to serve?

    I'm not saying it's impossible or anything. I'm sure there are transwomen in real world who pursue endeavours deemed masculine, join the military, start bodybuilding etc. at some point. But since Mizhena is just a fictional character, I'm questioning the artistic merit behind her. To me, it feels like she is written in a way to invert expectations just for the sake of it, which may or may not be the case.

    As for me being wrong about Tempus having the most masculine portfolio, come now. Are we not talking about the god of war? Which makes him the Ares/Mars of the Forgotten Realms, who was, among other things, the god masculinity itself in classical mythology.

    Am I saying all works of fiction should follow established, traditional tropes? Of course not. In fact, I would be first to applaud if they were challenged in clever ways. But I don't think Mizhena is such a case.


  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    edited September 2016
    Nihilus said:

    Now Mizhena. She is a woman, but a transwoman, to be precise. So she had a journey of discovery in her early years from masculinity to femininity. Great. Now why would she make a U turn and choose Tempus of all gods to serve?

    Tempus' domains are Protection, Strength, and War. Either of the first two would appeal to a transwoman. Or maybe she just likes fighting.
    Nihilus said:

    I'm not saying it's impossible or anything. I'm sure there are transwomen in real world who pursue endeavours deemed masculine, join the military, start bodybuilding etc. at some point. But since Mizhena is just a fictional character, I'm questioning the artistic merit behind her. To me, it feels like she is written in a way to invert expectations just for the sake of it, which may or may not be the case.

    I'm not clear on what you mean here. If you accept the premise that some transwomen might choose to pursue traditionally "masculine" roles (though let's not forget that in the Forgotten Realms the gender divide isn't quite as defined as it is in our world), why is Mizhena's status as a fictional character an obstacle to that?
    Nihilus said:

    As for me being wrong about Tempus having the most masculine portfolio, come now. Are we not talking about the god of war?/ Which makes him the Ares/Mars of the Forgotten Realms, who was, among other things, the god masculinity itself in classical mythology.

    Athena/Minerva would like to have a word with you. So would the Morrigan, Durga, Sekhmet, Ishtar, Bellona and Freyja.

    GenderNihilismGirdleAyiekieKurona
  • NihilusNihilus Member Posts: 192
    Nihilus said:

    I'm not clear on what you mean here. If you accept the premise that some transwomen might choose to pursue traditionally "masculine" roles (though let's not forget that in the Forgotten Realms the gender divide isn't quite as defined as it is in our world), why is Mizhena's status as a fictional character an obstacle to that?

    I'm not saying it's an obstacle per se. In fiction, there can be plot holes, which are technical flaws, and there can be unnecessary twists that don't serve anything, which are not technical flaws, just bad writing.

    In my opinion, Mizhena being a priestess of Tempus is an example of the latter.
    shawne said:

    Athena/Minerva would like to have a word with you.

    I'm glad you brought that up. Let's see.

    "Tempus, also known as the Lord of Battles, was the god of war. His dogma was primarily concerned with honorable battle, forbidding cowardice and encouraging the use of force of arms to settle disputes."

    "Ares is the Greek god of war. In Greek literature, he often represents the physical or violent and untamed aspect of war, in contrast to his sister the armored Athena, whose functions as a goddess of intelligence include military strategy and generalship."

    It seems clear to me that the Chaotic Neutral Tempus is clearly far more analogous to Ares than Athena.

    Besides, it's not like Athena was a goddess of military strategy and a goddess of feminity (if she were, we could question if war in general was seen as a masculine affair in the classical mythology). Aphrodite/Venus is the one who was the goddess of feminity and her "portfolio" is a far cry from that of either Ares or Artemis.

    Calmar
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    edited September 2016
    Nihilus said:

    I'm not saying it's an obstacle per se. In fiction, there can be plot holes, which are technical flaws, and there can be unnecessary twists that don't serve anything, which are not technical flaws, just bad writing.

    In my opinion, Mizhena being a priestess of Tempus is an example of the latter.

    The problem here is that the only evidence you've got to back that opinion up is that Tempus is supposedly a "masculine" portfolio because he's the Lord of Battles. Which conveniently ignores three things:

    1) There are war goddesses in practically every pantheon. Not sure why you feel they have to be associated with "femininity" (whatever that means), but if that's a requirement you've got Freyja, you've got Ishtar, you've got Inanna.
    2) War isn't Tempus' only domain. Clerics could just as easily seek him out for Strength or Protection, neither of which are especially "masculine" pursuits in the Forgotten Realms.
    3) Tempus has canonical priestesses, meaning both that women have chosen to serve him and he accepts women into his clergy.

    Taking all that into consideration, you singling out Mizhena for being "bad writing" seems a bit like you're trying to force this to be an "issue" where D&D canon says it isn't.

    GenderNihilismGirdleKuronaGrum
  • NihilusNihilus Member Posts: 192
    shawne said:

    The problem here is that the only evidence you've got to back that opinion up is that Tempus is supposedly a "masculine" portfolio because he's the Lord of Battles. Which conveniently ignores three things:

    1) There are war goddesses in practically every pantheon. Not sure why you feel they have to be associated with "femininity" (whatever that means), but if that's a requirement you've got Freyja, you've got Ishtar, you've got Inanna.

    You make it sound as though I am the one who invented the masculine Mars versus the feminine Venus dichotomy. One may hate it, one may consider it a trite cliche, but it has been there for millennia.

    Now let's take a look at those goddesses from the Norse and Mesopotamian mythologies:

    "In Norse mythology, Freyja is a goddess associated with love, sex, beauty, fertility, gold, seiðr, war, and death."

    "Inanna was the Sumerian goddess of love, fertility, and warfare, and goddess of the E-Anna temple at the city of Uruk, her main centre."

    "Ishtar is the Mesopotamian East Semitic (Akkadian, Assyrian and Babylonian) goddess of fertility, love, war, and sex."

    You have a point: These war goddesses are clearly associated with Venusian (thus traditionally feminine) portfolio such as love, sex, beauty and fertility.

    But the question is: Is Tempus associated with such things? No, he isn't. So Tempus is more analogous to Ares/Mars than either Freyja, Inanna or Ishtar. My point still stands.
    shawne said:

    3) Tempus has canonical priestesses, meaning both that women have chosen to serve him and he accepts women into his clergy.

    Um, of course? In fact, the only priest(ess) of Tempus who can join Charname is a woman.

    Let me ask you something though: Why do you think devs made Branwen more masculine (with deeper voice and everything) than other female companions?

    Do you think more feminine companions such as Aerie/Alora/Imoen/Skie would have worked if they were priestessess of Tempus?
    shawne said:

    Taking all that into consideration, you singling out Mizhena for being "bad writing" seems a bit like you're trying to force this to be an "issue" where D&D canon says it isn't.

    This is not a matter of canon. As I said, I'm not claiming there is a plot hole here or anything.

    Let me give you an alternate scenario.

    If Mizhena had been born a biological woman, but discovered that he is actually man in his early years AND THEN join the service of Tempus (whom I think is analogous to Mars/Ares even if he is not explicitly declared god of masculinity; you may disagree) AND outperform his colleagues in his duties, I think that would have been a poignant story that challenges biological determinism.

    But since Mizhena is a transwoman and not a transman, her being a priestess of Tempus seems like a U turn for no apparent reason.

    Now there is a very good chance that devs didn't intend anything like this. Perhaps I'm reading too much into it. Perhaps I'm also wrong to equate Tempus to Ares/Mars. But then again, I only meant to offer my personal opinion in this thread. I'm not trying to present them as objective facts.

  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    Nihilus said:

    You have a point: These war goddesses are clearly associated with Venusian (thus traditionally feminine) portfolio such as love, sex, beauty and fertility.

    But the question is: Is Tempus associated with such things? No, he isn't. So Tempus is more analogous to Ares/Mars than either Freyja, Inanna or Ishtar. My point still stands.

    You keep skipping over the fact that Tempus has other domains besides war - something less true, traditionally, of Ares. You also conveniently associate Tempus with the Greek mode of thought when, if anything, he seems more analogous to a Viking-style god, which would render the whole Venusian/Martian dichotomy moot.
    Nihilus said:

    Let me ask you something though: Why do you think devs made Branwen more masculine (with deeper voice and everything) than other female companions?

    This assumes Branwen's "masculinity" is specifically related to her worship of Tempus, though. Why, then, is Accalia from Icewind Dale portrayed differently? There's nothing overtly masculine about her, yet Black Isle put her there all the same; is the former a deliberate design choice and the latter an anomaly? Why?
    Nihilus said:

    Do you think more feminine companions such as Aerie/Alora/Imoen/Skie would have worked if they were priestessess of Tempus?

    That has less to do with their femininity and more to do with their personalities: Aerie, Imoen, Alora and Skie aren't aggressive by nature, and they value intelligence/cleverness over physical strength. Would the same be true for Mazzy? Or Jaheira, who sees herself as a protector of nature?
    Nihilus said:

    If Mizhena had been born a biological woman, but discovered that he is actually man in his early years AND THEN join the service of Tempus (whom I think is analogous to Mars/Ares even if he is not explicitly declared god of masculinity; you may disagree) AND outperform his colleagues in his duties, I think that would have been a poignant story that challenges biological determinism.

    But since Mizhena is a transwoman and not a transman, her being a priestess of Tempus seems like a U turn for no apparent reason.

    It's only "no apparent reason" if the only factor you're taking into consideration is Mizhena's gender, though. You're completely disregarding the possibility that a transwoman might worship Tempus for qualities other than his supposed masculinity as the Lord of Battles - to flip your scenario on its head, maybe a person born biologically male and identifying as female would choose the God of Strength as a way of bolstering their own resolve. Maybe a transwoman would pledge herself to the service of the God of Protection and join the army to help others. Maybe it's because Tempus is also the God of Warriors, which - per the most foundational rules of D&D - is an equal-opportunity field. "Males and females of the realms can excel in whatever profession they choose, whether wizardry, thievery, or the arts of war." Maybe Mizhena just wants to be a warrior, and it never had anything to do with her gender in the first place.

    The game doesn't tell you her reasons, because she's a minor NPC and her backstory matters as much to the plot of SoD as the question of why Gellana Mirrorshade worships Glittergold and not Ironhand. There are more ways her depiction could be read as legitimate per the rules of D&D than there are grounds to see it as a contradiction or a plothole.

    GenderNihilismGirdleKuronaGrum
  • AyiekieAyiekie Member Posts: 931
    Nihilus said:


    If Mizhena were a transman, a valid comparison could be made with Branwen. But Mizhena is a transwoman. She was biologically born male, finds out she is actually female AND THEN chooses to serve the god with the most masculine portfolio in Forgotten Realms.

    Does she? It seems to me it's just as plausible she chose to serve Tempus first, then realised she was not the gender she was assigned at birth. I don't recall her giving any timeline on the matter.

    Would it matter, anyway? Even if services of Tempus were all macho homoerotic frat parties, Mizhena's gender status doesn't really affect whether she would worship Tempus or not. That's the point of the comparison with Branwen - since other women worship Tempus, why not this one?

    GenderNihilismGirdleSanctiferKurona
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