Tranny is a slur. It's not your word to use. I can use it and I'll let close friends use it in private. I'm getting really sick of this "I'm not transphobic" nonsense when you're just defining transphobia in a way that never covers the crap you say.
This is simply not true. I am a therapist who works with people in the LGBTQ community, and "tranny" is absolutely not a slur.
It is a term that has fallen out of favor. Some trans people prefer to use the term for self-description (including some trans authors), and others dislike and object to it. But inherently, the term is not a slur.
At this moment in time, GLAAD has suggested that reporters and others let the term fall into disuse so that it isn't misunderstood, but make no mistake there are trans people who claim the term and proudly use it - and they don't mind when others use it.
Back the hell up. I am trans, I am telling you it's a slur. I use the word for self description because it's my word to use. Not yours. It is a slur. The majority of trans women will tell you this. It's often the last thing we hear before we're beaten unconscious(or dead). Knock off the cisplaining please.
Here's the problem - you say this - but then when we try to explain to you the systems that are in place that stand in the way of LGBT representation etc. you dismiss THAT as some conspiracy. Like, there are reasons why people don't chance it with trans characters and after this you should see why.
There's no "system" against LGBT in Ed's world. There are LGB people everywhere in Faerun, and the transgender part was not represented back in the days because Ed understood there was no need to it ; in his fantastic world, transgender people could be who they wanted, and the very nature of transgender people is to want to be the other sex.
Times changed from the 80's however. Now, there are social justice warriors, and they want transgender people in their game. And Ed is like "ok fine make some transgender npc's if you want" because fighting against it is not worth it.
There wasn't any purple light saber in star wars, before. Then, Samuel L Jackson signed a contract. After his contract was signed, he childishly kept asking for a purple light saber. George Lucas, after a while, gave in, and did allow Samuel to get a purple light saber. Behold, the power of modern liberal whining.
Tranny is a slur. It's not your word to use. I can use it and I'll let close friends use it in private. I'm getting really sick of this "I'm not transphobic" nonsense when you're just defining transphobia in a way that never covers the crap you say.
This is simply not true. I am a therapist who works with people in the LGBTQ community, and "tranny" is absolutely not a slur.
It is a term that has fallen out of favor. Some trans people prefer to use the term for self-description (including some trans authors), and others dislike and object to it. But inherently, the term is not a slur.
At this moment in time, GLAAD has suggested that reporters and others let the term fall into disuse so that it isn't misunderstood, but make no mistake there are trans people who claim the term and proudly use it - and they don't mind when others use it.
Back the hell up. I am trans, I am telling you it's a slur. I use the word for self description because it's my word to use. Not yours. It is a slur. The majority of trans women will tell you this. It's often the last thing we hear before we're beaten unconscious(or dead). Knock off the cisplaining please.
I'm not "cisplaining" at all. Go read Kate Bornstein. It's not inherently a slur, despite your personal dislike of the word or your claim that only trans people are allowed to use it.
I play games for fun and escapism, having current hot topics that anger many (I am one) ruins the gameplay and immersion. I would not like having abortion, muslim terrorist, Obama, Sarah Palin, or other current topics thrown in either. I know trans has probably been around since early humans, but the topic is red hot now and it spoils the game... no matter which side you are on. I want elves, orcs, and fantasy while I put the real world on hold for a brief amount of time.
Now, there are social justice warriors, and they want transgender people in their game. And Ed is like "ok fine make some transgender npc's if you want" because fighting against it is not worth it.
You make it sound like Ed isn't in favor of trans but tolerates it. I believe that considering his previous unrelated promotion and pushing of trans issues in stories like his own self-insertion Elminster stories, the opposite is true. I believe that Ed is in fact in favor of trans issues, and tolerates the anti-trans people for PR's sake.
You make it sound like Ed isn't in favor of trans but tolerates it. I believe that considering his previous unrelated promotion and pushing of trans issues in stories like his own self-insertion Elminster stories, the opposite is true. I believe that Ed is in fact in favor of trans issues, and tolerates the anti-trans people for PR's sake.
Why is this transgender cleric the first transgender NPC we see in 40 years then? Ed himself could've created one 20 years ago just to prove his point. He sure didn't. Unless you guys want to toss me this Corellon picture again.
Why is this transgender cleric the first transgender NPC we see in 40 years then? Ed himself could've created one 20 years ago just to prove his point. He sure didn't. Unless you guys want to toss me this Corellon picture again.
Google Elminster Elmara sometime. Or Edwina Odesseiron. Ed's created one. Baldur's Gate has had its trans on before. Just because you close your eyes doesn't mean it's not there.
I believe the T word is like the N word ; they can call each other like that, but if a non transgender uses the T word, it becomes an insult.
Intent and context can of course change any word into an insult. But the historical origins of the N-word and the T-word are quite different. The N-word started out as an inherently insulting term and has been "reclaimed" by some blacks. Tranny originally had no negative connotation historically, so (and I'm paraphrasing Kate Bornstein here) it's never been "reclaimed" nor is it inherently a slur.
I am well aware that a segment of the trans community dislikes and rejects the term. However, to simply throw it out as "inherently a slur" is deeply disrespectful to the trans people who preferentially use it in self-reference everywhere - not just among other trans people.
Google Elminster Elmara sometime. Or Edwina Odesseiron. Ed's created one. Baldur's Gate has had its trans on before. Just because you close your eyes doesn't mean it's not there.
Those are not real transgender. You don't understand. A fantasy world with always look a bit like real life, and most people will think it's fine as long as it's not exactly like real life. Misfired spells, godly curses, god revelations, cursed belts, disguise skills, that's not real life transgender, and it's fine. But that cleric, she's so obviously a real life political statement it's worth some drama.
Tranny is a slur. It's not your word to use. I can use it and I'll let close friends use it in private. I'm getting really sick of this "I'm not transphobic" nonsense when you're just defining transphobia in a way that never covers the crap you say.
This is simply not true. I am a therapist who works with people in the LGBTQ community, and "tranny" is absolutely not a slur.
It is a term that has fallen out of favor. Some trans people prefer to use the term for self-description (including some trans authors), and others dislike and object to it. But inherently, the term is not a slur.
At this moment in time, GLAAD has suggested that reporters and others let the term fall into disuse so that it isn't misunderstood, but make no mistake there are trans people who claim the term and proudly use it - and they don't mind when others use it.
Back the hell up. I am trans, I am telling you it's a slur. I use the word for self description because it's my word to use. Not yours. It is a slur. The majority of trans women will tell you this. It's often the last thing we hear before we're beaten unconscious(or dead). Knock off the cisplaining please.
I'm not "cisplaining" at all. Go read Kate Bornstein. It's not inherently a slur, despite your personal dislike of the word or your claim that only trans people are allowed to use it.
You're a cis person telling an actual trans person to and read up on another trans person who's views are more convenient for you.
I don't want to disown Bornstein completely but she writes a lot of stupid stuff these days. She's by no means representative.
I play games for fun and escapism, having current hot topics that anger many (I am one) ruins the gameplay and immersion. I would not like having abortion, muslim terrorist, Obama, Sarah Palin, or other current topics thrown in either. I know trans has probably been around since early humans, but the topic is red hot now and it spoils the game... no matter which side you are on. I want elves, orcs, and fantasy while I put the real world on hold for a brief amount of time.
I am a human being(or sapient being, since we're talking fantasy), not a "red hot topic". This is deeply insulting and dehumanising. And we're the ones most in need of putting the "real world" on hold.
Tranny is a slur. It's not your word to use. I can use it and I'll let close friends use it in private. I'm getting really sick of this "I'm not transphobic" nonsense when you're just defining transphobia in a way that never covers the crap you say.
This is simply not true. I am a therapist who works with people in the LGBTQ community, and "tranny" is absolutely not a slur.
It is a term that has fallen out of favor. Some trans people prefer to use the term for self-description (including some trans authors), and others dislike and object to it. But inherently, the term is not a slur.
At this moment in time, GLAAD has suggested that reporters and others let the term fall into disuse so that it isn't misunderstood, but make no mistake there are trans people who claim the term and proudly use it - and they don't mind when others use it.
Back the hell up. I am trans, I am telling you it's a slur. I use the word for self description because it's my word to use. Not yours. It is a slur. The majority of trans women will tell you this. It's often the last thing we hear before we're beaten unconscious(or dead). Knock off the cisplaining please.
I'm not "cisplaining" at all. Go read Kate Bornstein. It's not inherently a slur, despite your personal dislike of the word or your claim that only trans people are allowed to use it.
You're a cis person telling an actual trans person to and read up on another trans person who's views are more convenient for you.
I don't want to disown Bornstein completely but she writes a lot of stupid stuff these days. She's by no means representative.
Convenient? Look, just because I'm cis and you're trans doesn't mean you're an infallible expert and that my actual education on the subject has no value. Frankly, you're offensive for pushing only one side of the story - it's absolutely not an agreed-upon issue within your own community. You are wrong for trying to tell people here that it is, that only your personal take is the correct one.
You're disowning Bornstein because you disagree with her. No, she's not representative of the entire trans community (she's even said so), but by the same logic you aren't either.
You're disowning Bornstein because you disagree with her. No, she's not representative of the entire trans community (she's even said so), but by the same logic you aren't either.
True. But when there is no clear consensus, the polite thing to do is not to flat out contradict to someone's face what they feel is a slur. You can feel different about the issue, but to someone who feels she's in mortal danger on a daily basis, it's probably best not to lecture about what words she should feel acceptable.
You're disowning Bornstein because you disagree with her. No, she's not representative of the entire trans community (she's even said so), but by the same logic you aren't either.
True. But when there is no clear consensus, the polite thing to do is not to flat out contradict to someone's face what they feel is a slur. You can feel different about the issue, but to someone who feels she's in mortal danger on a daily basis, it's probably best not to lecture about what words she should feel acceptable.
Here's the thing. If we're going to have an honest and real discussion, everyone must proceed from the basis of truth. Individual people, whether cis or trans or something else, don't get to move the goalposts around and make verifiably untrue claims based on their individual feelings.
"Tranny" has long been used within the drag queen community (transvestite) in a non-derogatory way.
"Tranny" has been used within the transsexual then transgender community for not quite as long. From what I can tell, it was then used by non-trans people as an insult in similar fashion to how "gay" turned into an insult. In response to this, some trans people have been said to have re-claimed the word. During this ugly event, I've seen "tranny" used as an insult.
What differentiates a "slur" from an "insult"? I'm not one to ask. In any case, it's best not to use the word in most company unless you're sure it's alright with who you're with. Different crowds use different words.
~themoreyouknow~
That is the consensus of GLAAD, which I mentioned. Trying to label "tranny" only as a slur, and insisting upon that single interpretation, is what I took issue with.
Bornstein has specifically written on how it's not a "reclaimed" word, and its history. I'm just pointing out that there's quite a bit of complexity here, even with a term.
It's nice to see him chiming in but nobody is complaining about the existence of the character, but how it was written, which from this line
we generally don't rub the reader's nose in sex unless there's a good in-story reason for it.
it seems like he would be against it. There is no good in-story reason for that character.
So, let's pretend that a character is passionate about cheese? Would people being complaining because cheese was mentioned? Would it be called lazy writting? Shallow? Nope. If it was a color perhaps? "The Green Lady", "The Blue Boy". Nope. So there is no reason for pretending it is about the writing, there is plenty of "lazy writing" from games that run on 386 to our newest CPUs.
What you seem to miss is that if talking about being transgender fits the character it IS good writing, it IS good reason. If a comunist character preaches comunism it is totally ok if it fits the character. Any writing about a character should reflect what the character is, and if it does, it is good writing. If you had some background on a trans character saying she dislikes her past and she promptly talks to you about her gender then it would be ridiculous. It would only be wrong if it did not fit the character. Now, we know nothing about this character (aside from few lines of dialogue) how can we say if it is right or wrong? How can we say if it fits or not?
So unless you think writing means pretending the world don't have people who like to talk about all kinds of subjects, there is no issue with Mizhena. I mean in real life there are people who "shove" issues all the time, politics, sex, genre, Batman vs Superman, CA: Civil War, Marvel vs DC, science, religion... creating a game world where such thing does not exist is the lazy writing.
Because we should never have any real life in video games.
Transgender , automatic weapons, bulletproof vests, blacks beat by white cops... maybe you should play The world of darkness instead. Vampire the masquerade?
I don't remember asking for any of those others. It's weird that you'd lump transgender together with some sort of modern trappings, I have no idea why you'd think that one requires the other.
Because we should never have any real life in video games.
Transgender , automatic weapons, bulletproof vests, blacks beat by white cops... maybe you should play The world of darkness instead. Vampire the masquerade?
It would be a cute post if it made any sense at all, but it doesn't. Transgenderism existis in the setting and fits the setting since it exists for millenia in real world, it is nothing "modern". What is modern however is the hatred towards these people, mark of modern religions. Shamanic religions accepted trans people and other polytheistic religions accepted trans people as priests.
"Tranny" has long been used within the drag queen community (transvestite) in a non-derogatory way.
"Tranny" has been used within the transsexual then transgender community for not quite as long. From what I can tell, it was then used by non-trans people as an insult in similar fashion to how "gay" turned into an insult. In response to this, some trans people have been said to have re-claimed the word. During this ugly event, I've seen "tranny" used as an insult.
What differentiates a "slur" from an "insult"? I'm not one to ask. In any case, it's best not to use the word in most company unless you're sure it's alright with who you're with. Different crowds use different words.
~themoreyouknow~
This is fucking bullshit. I'm not going to be talked to down over this esp. by cis people who are just looking for an excuse to use slurs that don't belong to them. Kate Bornstein is a controversial figure in the trans community. She doesn't represent most of us. Whether or not it belongs to drag queens or trans people is one thing, but it definitely doesn't belong to cishets who are most decidedly using it in a derogatory fashion.
Please explain to me the history of "tranny" in the drag community vs. the trans community? I just did a talk on trans history not long ago. The truth is that at one point, "queen" and "transsexual" weren't really separate thing. If anything they were lines drawn more along race and socio-economic lines. They weren't two separate communities at the root.
The problem is when you get modern drag queens who have pulled away from the trans community, who are cis and not trans identified. Many of the queens of old went on to identify as partially or wholly trans(Marsha P. Johnson, Sylvia Rivera et. all for example). These are people who do not have the same experience as modern trans women or the street queens of old.
Either way - nowadays, tranny is mostly used by people as a derogatory term for trans people as seen in this goddamn thread. I'm telling people that using it in that context is absolutely not acceptable. And it isn't.
Tranny is a slur. It's not your word to use. I can use it and I'll let close friends use it in private. I'm getting really sick of this "I'm not transphobic" nonsense when you're just defining transphobia in a way that never covers the crap you say.
This is simply not true. I am a therapist who works with people in the LGBTQ community, and "tranny" is absolutely not a slur.
It is a term that has fallen out of favor. Some trans people prefer to use the term for self-description (including some trans authors), and others dislike and object to it. But inherently, the term is not a slur.
At this moment in time, GLAAD has suggested that reporters and others let the term fall into disuse so that it isn't misunderstood, but make no mistake there are trans people who claim the term and proudly use it - and they don't mind when others use it.
Back the hell up. I am trans, I am telling you it's a slur. I use the word for self description because it's my word to use. Not yours. It is a slur. The majority of trans women will tell you this. It's often the last thing we hear before we're beaten unconscious(or dead). Knock off the cisplaining please.
I'm not "cisplaining" at all. Go read Kate Bornstein. It's not inherently a slur, despite your personal dislike of the word or your claim that only trans people are allowed to use it.
You're a cis person telling an actual trans person to and read up on another trans person who's views are more convenient for you.
I don't want to disown Bornstein completely but she writes a lot of stupid stuff these days. She's by no means representative.
Convenient? Look, just because I'm cis and you're trans doesn't mean you're an infallible expert and that my actual education on the subject has no value. Frankly, you're offensive for pushing only one side of the story - it's absolutely not an agreed-upon issue within your own community. You are wrong for trying to tell people here that it is, that only your personal take is the correct one.
You're disowning Bornstein because you disagree with her. No, she's not representative of the entire trans community (she's even said so), but by the same logic you aren't either.
YOU ARE NOT FUCKING TRANS. YOU'VE NEVER BEEN ASSAULTED BY SOMEONE CALLING YOU A "FUCKING TRANNY". YOU ARE NOT EVEN A DRAG QUEEN. YOU ARE CISPLAINING. YOU HAVE NO FUCKING PLACE IN TELLING ME WHAT SLURS DO OR DON'T APPLY. BORNSTEIN CAN GET FUCKED FOR THAT MATTER. SINCE YOU ARE NOT TRANS IT IS NOT YOUR FUCKING PLACE TO COMMENT ON HOW REPRESENTATIVE ANYONE IS. AND GLAAD IS NOT A FUCKING TRANS ORGANISATION EITHER. THIS IS NOT YOUR ARGUMENT. IF SOMEONE TELLS YOU THEY ARE CLEARLY UNCOMFORTABLE WITH A SLUR THAT APPLIES TO THEM, SOMETHING WHICH IS AND HAS BEEN USED IN A DEROGATORY SENSE YOU FUCKING LISTEN. THERE'S PLENTY OF POTENTIALLY PROBLEMATIC LANGUAGE I USE THAT I CUT THE FUCK OUT IF SOMEONE IN FRONT OF ME TELLS ME NOT TO. FUCKING LISTEN AND LEARN. TRANS ISN'T YOUR FUCKING PHD. IT'S A LIVED GODDAMN EXPERIENCE.
Two years ago, I was just walking in an alley, doing my heterosexual thing, bringing flowers to my girlfriend. Then a guy (?) asked me what I was doing. I said I was bringing flowers to my girlfriend. Right after, something hit me behind the head, and I fell on the ground. I blacked out for a second, only to see I was surrounded by gay guys, some dressed as women. They were kicking me over and over, jabbing their pointy heel boots in my stomach. I curled up in a fetus position to defend myself.
A really brave guy came to my rescue and chased them away with a pitchfork. I ended up in the hospital for 10 days. Point is, violence happens everywhere, to everyone.
Roseweave represents the typical liberal and quickly resorts to shouting down others and using foul language. No substance and no ability to 'tolerate' other views. Tolerance now means you must embrace and celebrate their belief, not merely be accepting of it. Political correctness has run amuck.
Comments
Times changed from the 80's however. Now, there are social justice warriors, and they want transgender people in their game. And Ed is like "ok fine make some transgender npc's if you want" because fighting against it is not worth it.
There wasn't any purple light saber in star wars, before. Then, Samuel L Jackson signed a contract. After his contract was signed, he childishly kept asking for a purple light saber. George Lucas, after a while, gave in, and did allow Samuel to get a purple light saber. Behold, the power of modern liberal whining.
I am well aware that a segment of the trans community dislikes and rejects the term. However, to simply throw it out as "inherently a slur" is deeply disrespectful to the trans people who preferentially use it in self-reference everywhere - not just among other trans people.
I don't want to disown Bornstein completely but she writes a lot of stupid stuff these days. She's by no means representative.
You're disowning Bornstein because you disagree with her. No, she's not representative of the entire trans community (she's even said so), but by the same logic you aren't either.
Yeesh.
Bornstein has specifically written on how it's not a "reclaimed" word, and its history. I'm just pointing out that there's quite a bit of complexity here, even with a term.
So, let's pretend that a character is passionate about cheese? Would people being complaining because cheese was mentioned? Would it be called lazy writting? Shallow? Nope.
If it was a color perhaps? "The Green Lady", "The Blue Boy". Nope.
So there is no reason for pretending it is about the writing, there is plenty of "lazy writing" from games that run on 386 to our newest CPUs.
What you seem to miss is that if talking about being transgender fits the character it IS good writing, it IS good reason. If a comunist character preaches comunism it is totally ok if it fits the character. Any writing about a character should reflect what the character is, and if it does, it is good writing. If you had some background on a trans character saying she dislikes her past and she promptly talks to you about her gender then it would be ridiculous. It would only be wrong if it did not fit the character. Now, we know nothing about this character (aside from few lines of dialogue) how can we say if it is right or wrong? How can we say if it fits or not?
So unless you think writing means pretending the world don't have people who like to talk about all kinds of subjects, there is no issue with Mizhena. I mean in real life there are people who "shove" issues all the time, politics, sex, genre, Batman vs Superman, CA: Civil War, Marvel vs DC, science, religion... creating a game world where such thing does not exist is the lazy writing.
So i just wanted to come in and say hi to everyone.
Hi everyone.
Please explain to me the history of "tranny" in the drag community vs. the trans community? I just did a talk on trans history not long ago. The truth is that at one point, "queen" and "transsexual" weren't really separate thing. If anything they were lines drawn more along race and socio-economic lines. They weren't two separate communities at the root.
The problem is when you get modern drag queens who have pulled away from the trans community, who are cis and not trans identified. Many of the queens of old went on to identify as partially or wholly trans(Marsha P. Johnson, Sylvia Rivera et. all for example). These are people who do not have the same experience as modern trans women or the street queens of old.
Either way - nowadays, tranny is mostly used by people as a derogatory term for trans people as seen in this goddamn thread. I'm telling people that using it in that context is absolutely not acceptable. And it isn't.
A really brave guy came to my rescue and chased them away with a pitchfork. I ended up in the hospital for 10 days. Point is, violence happens everywhere, to everyone.
Be mindful of other people's sensitivities. If you notice that someone is being upset by your comments, don't provoke them further.