@Mortianna Precisely. And the sword coast, for the most part, unless you are in a large city or town, is rather sparsely populated. He could go around killing nymphs and brownies and whatnot, and unless someone was around to see him, who would know? It wouldn't make him any less evil, just careful. Just like Good is not stupid, neither is evil. If he planned his killings to mostly be unseen by bystanders, or killed any witnesses who saw him... it wouldn't make him any less evil, just smarter about it.
And his actions in killing the caravan guard? He didn't even kill the guy he went there to kill, he figured any one of them would do- that's clearly spelled out in the story. And that's evil, too. At neutral evil, you might badly hurt someone to teach them a lesson of not messing with you- you don't need to kill them. That's an act both Chaotic *and* Evil. Neutral Evil might have beat the actual guy he wanted to hurt so badly that he was in danger of dying, and told him, "Treat me like that again, and I'll be back, and the next time, I won't be so nice."
@Aosaw Mmmm... but he just decided to kill the guy who came out (who was part of the caravan guards) instead of waiting for the one he was really angry at and wanted to kill. To me, that implies an element of chaotic.
@GueulEclator i don't see Lawful Evil as being dependent on killing, either...a LE being can be part of a society & function quite well within that society...their Evil tends to be more repressive & tied into crime/punishment & the letter of the law, not killing for killing's sake (because the killing is enjoyed), & not necessarily as the first answer to a problem... killing doesn't even have to be part of it...pain/mutilation/slavery is every bit as evil, but killing is not a given
@Mortianna you touch a nice point, there's an difference between be "evil" and be "the evil", Dorn is just evil, not an walking incarnate representative of an evil portfolio.
@Aosaw I agree with you, in part; my girl friend is from Russia & her English grammar & syntax are flawless--sometimes better than mine. However, she has a noticeable accent, as well... i have no problem with how polished Dorn's syntax is...nothing wrong w/ an educated 1/2-Orc...i guess i mentioned my 'thing' w/ his voice because of the mention in the story of him questioning his own use of the Common tongue please understand i am not complaining...this is the first video game release i've been truly geeked about in years...
The story is set when he was twelve, the voice clips are from ingame after/when he meets the PC as an adult(I assume). If he spent the time inbetween amoung people who spoke common he would have gotten better with the language.
I'll wager that they developed each of the new NPC's character/story first in all its richness and complexity. Then decided which alignment best described them.
I agree with @Mortianna about NE being most likely, though, from what we do know at this point. We have yet to learn the rest of his story however. He matches up almost perfectly with the game's description of the NE alignment in the vignette.
I will have to ask again my question : what makes this character evil right now? I fail to see how he is more than neutral. A lot of neutral character kill for offenses. People are all jerks toward This guy, he is not being the bad guy here. How is he evil?
It is interesting that we do see him as caring for his mother. And that his propensity towards violence against those who disrespect or mistreat him is based on a lifetime of abusive treatment. But I think what the story establishes is a defining moment where he internally decides to be unchained from caring about anyone anymore. It reads like a turning point, existentially. He is liberated to act as he wishes for strictly himself... But... in so doing, in his case he apparently disdains the rule of law and likely has no empathy for the well being of others. I.e., he's a sociopath. Which is evil any way you slice it.
His description on the home page is also telling:
"Do not annoy me with such simplistic notions of morality."
Born in the Spine of the World, Dorn fled to Luskan with his human mother when a rival tribe annihilated his father's savage people. In that northern city, Dorn's ruthless strength soon won him a deadly reputation and the attentions of a band of mercenaries whose wickedness exceeded even Dorn's. Imprisoned for the crimes of the entire group, Dorn made a fiendish bargain granting him even greater power and the promise of revenge.
A Blackguard of few words, Dorn is only too happy to ally himself with Gorion's ward and cut a bloody swath across the Sword Coast with his black greatsword, as long as that path continues to lead him to the traitors he has sworn to destroy.
@GueulEclator here is the description of 'Neutral Evil' alignment:
Neutral Evil
Neutral Evil is called the "Malefactor" alignment. Characters of this alignment are typically selfish and have no qualms about turning on their allies-of-the-moment, and usually make allies primarily to further their own goals. They have no compunctions about harming others to get what they want, but neither will they go out of their way to cause carnage or mayhem when they see no direct benefit to it. They abide by laws for only as long as it is convenient for them. A villain of this alignment can be more dangerous than either Lawful or Chaotic Evil characters, since she or he is neither bound by any sort of honor or tradition nor disorganized and pointlessly violent.
Examples are an assassin who has little regard for formal laws but does not needlessly kill, a henchman who plots behind her or his superior's back, or a mercenary who switches sides if made a better offer
Also, he's twelve. A twelve-year-old committing brutal murders over slights. If you don't count that as "evil", I must question your sense of morality.
Also, as @Lemernis said, it's clearly his "start of Darkness". The story is called Unburdened because, when we leave him, that's what he is. His last ties (those to his mother) has just been, not cut, but cast off by none other than himself (leaving her to what pretty much amounts to rape). He's free from care of anything but himself, he has no regard for either lives or law, and he's just getting started.
@GueulEclator here is the description of 'Natural Evil' alignment:
Neutral Evil
Neutral Evil is called the "Malefactor" alignment. Characters of this alignment are typically selfish and have no qualms about turning on their allies-of-the-moment, and usually make allies primarily to further their own goals. They have no compunctions about harming others to get what they want, but neither will they go out of their way to cause carnage or mayhem when they see no direct benefit to it. They abide by laws for only as long as it is convenient for them. A villain of this alignment can be more dangerous than either Lawful or Chaotic Evil characters, since she or he is neither bound by any sort of honor or tradition nor disorganized and pointlessly violent.
Examples are an assassin who has little regard for formal laws but does not needlessly kill, a henchman who plots behind her or his superior's back, or a mercenary who switches sides if made a better offer
Sounds like Dorn to me!
So, Dorn will be willing to betray CHARNAME? Is he going to end up being another Yoshimo? If Dorn was neutral evil, and neutral evil shows no compunction about betraying their allies of the moment, I'd have to worry that he was going to betray my character when he no longer saw any use for her or was made a better offer- Like by Sarevok, who could offer to bring him all the people Dorn wants to get revenge on, with his heading of the powerful Iron Throne trading consortium.
@GueulEclator here is the description of 'Natural Evil' alignment:
Neutral Evil
Neutral Evil is called the "Malefactor" alignment. Characters of this alignment are typically selfish and have no qualms about turning on their allies-of-the-moment, and usually make allies primarily to further their own goals. They have no compunctions about harming others to get what they want, but neither will they go out of their way to cause carnage or mayhem when they see no direct benefit to it. They abide by laws for only as long as it is convenient for them. A villain of this alignment can be more dangerous than either Lawful or Chaotic Evil characters, since she or he is neither bound by any sort of honor or tradition nor disorganized and pointlessly violent.
Examples are an assassin who has little regard for formal laws but does not needlessly kill, a henchman who plots behind her or his superior's back, or a mercenary who switches sides if made a better offer
Sounds like Dorn to me!
So, Dorn will be willing to betray CHARNAME? Is he going to end up being another Yoshimo? If Dorn was neutral evil, and neutral evil shows no compunction about betraying their allies of the moment, I'd have to worry that he was going to betray my character when he no longer saw any use for her or was made a better offer- Like by Sarevok, who could offer to bring him all the people Dorn wants to get revenge on, with his heading of the powerful Iron Throne trading consortium.
It is interesting that we do see him as caring for his mother. And that his propensity towards violence against those who disrespect or mistreat him is based on a lifetime of abusive treatment. But I think what the story establishes is a defining moment where he internally decides to be unchained from caring about anyone anymore. It reads like a turning point, existentially. He is liberated to act as he wishes for strictly himself... But... in so doing, in his case he apparently disdains the rule of law and likely has no empathy for the well being of others. I.e., he's a sociopath. Which is evil any way you slice it.
His description on the home page is also telling:
"Do not annoy me with such simplistic notions of morality."
Born in the Spine of the World, Dorn fled to Luskan with his human mother when a rival tribe annihilated his father's savage people. In that northern city, Dorn's ruthless strength soon won him a deadly reputation and the attentions of a band of mercenaries whose wickedness exceeded even Dorn's. Imprisoned for the crimes of the entire group, Dorn made a fiendish bargain granting him even greater power and the promise of revenge.
A Blackguard of few words, Dorn is only too happy to ally himself with Gorion's ward and cut a bloody swath across the Sword Coast with his black greatsword, as long as that path continues to lead him to the traitors he has sworn to destroy.
That makes sense. Except the part where you say sociopath are necessary evil. Neutral character can be sociopath too. Neutral characters can commit evil act too if it's in their interest. What differentiate a neutral character from an evil character is that evil character purposely commit Evil act because they enjoy it.
Sure, wanting to drown an entire Sword Coast in blood is not a sign of a Chaotic alignment.
If you want a better example remember the exposure scene where Sarevok went apeshit crazy and had to be teleported away by that mage guy...
And I'm really interested to see what will happen if your PC happens to be a paladin and runs into Dorn (or decides to take into your friendly party either Ajantis or Keldorn along with Dorn)
It's rare that reality lives up to your expectations, but this voice actor is perfect for the job. Exactly what I had imagined Dorn would sound like. Two thumbs up!
hahaha. no. I'm asking the same thing because you fanboys can't answer a simple question : how is this character evil here? What does he really do that is evil?
An evil character is someone that commit it's whole life to evil : he enjoys evil acts and often do it on purpose : YES neutral evil can do evil deeds for the pleasure too. That's what makes them evil.
Someone that just pursue his interest, without necessarily trying to be evil, is neutral. Some Neutral characters would have done what the half orc have done just now : kills those people that greatly offended you because you feel like it. Every human are jerks toward him, it's only normal if he pays them back when he has the occasion.
Try to come with a rational explanation instead of the : ''OMG you are wrong he just killed these people therefore is evil'' or ''we are tellig you he is evil therefore he is evil'', because all the different answers I got look pretty much like this.
I think you're coming at it from a different angle than the rest of us. Evil means "self-interest to the detriment of others", not "detriment of others because it's fun".
A Lawful Evil politician doesn't create bad policies because he likes hurting other people (although that might be the case); a Lawful Evil politician creates bad policies because they benefit him and to hell with everyone else.
A Lawful Neutral politician might create some bad policies and some good policies, but is generally just trying to maintain order.
A Lawful Good politician will create good policies because he wants to use the law to benefit everyone else.
The Good -> Evil spectrum isn't an order of "I like doing bad things", necessarily; it's an order of "I care about myself more than anyone else".
Dorn is evil because he cares only about his own interests and shows no hesitation when those interests cause harm to others. He takes revenge on the caravan that treated him badly by murdering them not because they were criminals, not because they were threatening his life, but because they made him angry.
In this excerpt, we see the very beginning of Dorn's descent into evil: taking revenge for a personal slight. Where we see him being evil, rather than neutral, is that he leaves his own mother to continue her life of promiscuity in the arms of someone who treats her like a whore, even knowing that it may cause her pain.
It's by no means the end of the journey, but it gives the reader some insight into where he's coming from, and maybe why he turns to evil as a source of power eventually.
Someone that just pursue his interest, without necessarily trying to be evil, is neutral. Some Neutral characters would have done what the half orc have done just now : kills those people that greatly offended you because you feel like it. Every human are jerks toward him, it's only normal if he pays them back when he has the occasion.
Sorry, but Neutral characters don't murder someone just because they were offended. That's why Dorn is evil.
Comments
It's the internet, of course, working like a magnifying glass for such behavior.
And his actions in killing the caravan guard? He didn't even kill the guy he went there to kill, he figured any one of them would do- that's clearly spelled out in the story. And that's evil, too. At neutral evil, you might badly hurt someone to teach them a lesson of not messing with you- you don't need to kill them. That's an act both Chaotic *and* Evil. Neutral Evil might have beat the actual guy he wanted to hurt so badly that he was in danger of dying, and told him, "Treat me like that again, and I'll be back, and the next time, I won't be so nice."
killing doesn't even have to be part of it...pain/mutilation/slavery is every bit as evil, but killing is not a given
So, now that we have all the stories, what's next? Perhaps another tasty sampling of the new portraits or music? Additional background stories?
OR maybe a sampling of the videos, yes, that's what I want.
I agree with @Mortianna about NE being most likely, though, from what we do know at this point. We have yet to learn the rest of his story however. He matches up almost perfectly with the game's description of the NE alignment in the vignette.
How is he evil?
It is interesting that we do see him as caring for his mother. And that his propensity towards violence against those who disrespect or mistreat him is based on a lifetime of abusive treatment. But I think what the story establishes is a defining moment where he internally decides to be unchained from caring about anyone anymore. It reads like a turning point, existentially. He is liberated to act as he wishes for strictly himself... But... in so doing, in his case he apparently disdains the rule of law and likely has no empathy for the well being of others. I.e., he's a sociopath. Which is evil any way you slice it.
His description on the home page is also telling:
Neutral Evil
Neutral Evil is called the "Malefactor" alignment. Characters of this alignment are typically selfish and have no qualms about turning on their allies-of-the-moment, and usually make allies primarily to further their own goals. They have no compunctions about harming others to get what they want, but neither will they go out of their way to cause carnage or mayhem when they see no direct benefit to it. They abide by laws for only as long as it is convenient for them. A villain of this alignment can be more dangerous than either Lawful or Chaotic Evil characters, since she or he is neither bound by any sort of honor or tradition nor disorganized and pointlessly violent.
Examples are an assassin who has little regard for formal laws but does not needlessly kill, a henchman who plots behind her or his superior's back, or a mercenary who switches sides if made a better offer
Sounds like Dorn to me!
Also, as @Lemernis said, it's clearly his "start of Darkness". The story is called Unburdened because, when we leave him, that's what he is. His last ties (those to his mother) has just been, not cut, but cast off by none other than himself (leaving her to what pretty much amounts to rape). He's free from care of anything but himself, he has no regard for either lives or law, and he's just getting started.
@GueulEclator Nice typo- "Natural Evil"!
And about betraying, you may never know. Each person have different personality and behavior even though they fall at the same alignment category..
Neutral characters can commit evil act too if it's in their interest. What differentiate a neutral character from an evil character is that evil character purposely commit Evil act because they enjoy it.
If you want a better example remember the exposure scene where Sarevok went apeshit crazy and had to be teleported away by that mage guy...
And I'm really interested to see what will happen if your PC happens to be a paladin and runs into Dorn (or decides to take into your friendly party either Ajantis or Keldorn along with Dorn)
What does he really do that is evil?
An evil character is someone that commit it's whole life to evil : he enjoys evil acts and often do it on purpose : YES neutral evil can do evil deeds for the pleasure too. That's what makes them evil.
Someone that just pursue his interest, without necessarily trying to be evil, is neutral. Some Neutral characters would have done what the half orc have done just now : kills those people that greatly offended you because you feel like it. Every human are jerks toward him, it's only normal if he pays them back when he has the occasion.
Try to come with a rational explanation instead of the : ''OMG you are wrong he just killed these people therefore is evil'' or ''we are tellig you he is evil therefore he is evil'', because all the different answers I got look pretty much like this.
A Lawful Evil politician doesn't create bad policies because he likes hurting other people (although that might be the case); a Lawful Evil politician creates bad policies because they benefit him and to hell with everyone else.
A Lawful Neutral politician might create some bad policies and some good policies, but is generally just trying to maintain order.
A Lawful Good politician will create good policies because he wants to use the law to benefit everyone else.
The Good -> Evil spectrum isn't an order of "I like doing bad things", necessarily; it's an order of "I care about myself more than anyone else".
Dorn is evil because he cares only about his own interests and shows no hesitation when those interests cause harm to others. He takes revenge on the caravan that treated him badly by murdering them not because they were criminals, not because they were threatening his life, but because they made him angry.
In this excerpt, we see the very beginning of Dorn's descent into evil: taking revenge for a personal slight. Where we see him being evil, rather than neutral, is that he leaves his own mother to continue her life of promiscuity in the arms of someone who treats her like a whore, even knowing that it may cause her pain.
It's by no means the end of the journey, but it gives the reader some insight into where he's coming from, and maybe why he turns to evil as a source of power eventually.