Okay now we are officially wayyyyyyyyyyyy past the nonsense of the "Neera is too American" nonsense.
Also, I forgot to make this joke: Dorn Il-KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!
Saying that good/evil are relative notion in our society is nonsense? Yeah right.
Oh, the troll is talking to me! Yes, troll, murder is not a "relative notion". Thank you for playing.
You look like a fellow troll too then. I'm not asking about an act that is shunned by everyone in our society, I'm asking you to give a clear definition of evil in our society. A clear one. You won't be able. Because good/evil is the most relative option on earth, and depends on each culture/religion/individuals.
It's not the same thing in a fiction world like the forgotten realm, because there the author can take the liberty of creating his own definition on evil based on his moral standards.
Okay now we are officially wayyyyyyyyyyyy past the nonsense of the "Neera is too American" nonsense.
Also, I forgot to make this joke: Dorn Il-KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!
Saying that good/evil are relative notion in our society is nonsense? Yeah right.
Oh, the troll is talking to me! Yes, troll, murder is not a "relative notion". Thank you for playing.
You look like a fellow troll too then. I'm not asking about an act that is shunned by everyone in our society, I'm asking you to give a clear definition of evil in our society. A clear one. You won't be able. Because good/evil is the most relative option on earth, and depends on each culture/religion/individuals.
It's not the same thing in a fiction world like the forgotten realm, because there the author can take the liberty of creating his own definition on evil based on his moral standards.
Fair call, however, a reader will, in the same way, take away their interpretation of what is evil based on their own standards and therefore judge and respond to the "evil" characters accordingly. However this is different because AD&D as @Nathan has pointed out has a reasonably clear definition of what is 'Neutral Evil' which Dorn seems to fit into almost perfectly.
What you say @GueulEclator is pure syllogism. Yes, you're right solely in your affirmative that each culture/religion/individual in the world will define a concept of right/wrong, good/evil, but no one just wake one day and think "hey, now in my country/religion or my personal moral says that kill in cold blood is ok".
The fact that each person/religion/government is entitled to create his/her/it's own moral and ethic code, inside a limit called international treaties and conventions for countries and religions and law to individuals (that you're intensely trying to bypass), doesn't mean that good sense doesn't exist anymore.
So to end, try to avoid fallacies and syllogism to justify your points if you want to be taken serious.
You look like a fellow troll too then. I'm not asking about an act that is shunned by everyone in our society, I'm asking you to give a clear definition of evil in our society. A clear one. You won't be able. Because good/evil is the most relative option on earth, and depends on each culture/religion/individuals.
It's not the same thing in a fiction world like the forgotten realm, because there the author can take the liberty of creating his own definition on evil based on his moral standards.
Murder is evil. Is that clear enough? I gave it; you ignored it. And there's nothing relative about it, in this culture or any other. Certainly not in the Forgotten Realms either. Even adventurers don't kill people in cold blood, or as revenge for an insult to their dignity, as happened to Dorn.
You are, of course, perfectly aware of this. You try to be some sort of moral relativist because you have no argument to make otherwise. I also saw the post you deleted. Your question has been answered, several times; you simply refuse to acknowledge it. You are, thus, a troll. Thanks for playing, once more.
I don't think Dorn is "not evil enough" but the dialogue.... Voice acting is obviously great, but the dialogue is... well, way too academic for a half-orc who grew up with orcs. The sound of his voice is saying - "silence! I kill you" but the tone is more like "He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."
I don't think Dorn is "not evil enough" but the dialogue.... Voice acting is obviously great, but the dialogue is... well, way too academic for a half-orc who grew up with orcs. The sound of his voice is saying - "silence! I kill you" but the tone is more like "He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."
Hey, I'd much rather talk about how awesome Dorn is, rest assured.
On that note, I contend that murdering someone who uses a euphemism about their personal urination counts as morally ambiguous, and quite possibly a legal gray area.
Guys, stop calling each other trolls just because you disagree with each other. Let's not turn this into one or the other pointless moralistic discussio, ok? Thanks.
@SamuelVarg: The story clearly tells us that Il-Khan is a name of an orcish tribe and not a family name. The only connection Dorn has to Gromnir is that they probably were raised together in the same tribe.
Dorn's mother is human so the only way for him to be a half-orc is to have an orcish father (who was also mentioned in the short story). There is not a slightest chance that Dorn is a bhaalspawn. If he was a bhaalspawn he would've been human.
@SamuelVarg: The story clearly tells us that Il-Khan is a name of an orcish tribe and not a family name. The only connection Dorn has to Gromnir is that they probably were raised together in the same tribe.
Dorn's mother is human so the only way for him to be a half-orc is to have an orcish father (who was also mentioned in the short story). There is not a slightest chance that Dorn is a bhaalspawn. If he was a bhaalspawn he would've been human.
I believe Bhaal was actually able to assume any form he wished to sire his mortal progeny. At least according to canon, IIRC. Yaga-shura is an example of that.
@SamuelVarg: The story clearly tells us that Il-Khan is a name of an orcish tribe and not a family name. The only connection Dorn has to Gromnir is that they probably were raised together in the same tribe.
Dorn's mother is human so the only way for him to be a half-orc is to have an orcish father (who was also mentioned in the short story). There is not a slightest chance that Dorn is a bhaalspawn. If he was a bhaalspawn he would've been human.
We have Bhaalspawns that are Halc-Orcs, Giants, Human/Dragons and so on...
@SamuelVarg: The story clearly tells us that Il-Khan is a name of an orcish tribe and not a family name. The only connection Dorn has to Gromnir is that they probably were raised together in the same tribe.
Dorn's mother is human so the only way for him to be a half-orc is to have an orcish father (who was also mentioned in the short story). There is not a slightest chance that Dorn is a bhaalspawn. If he was a bhaalspawn he would've been human.
We have Bhaalspaw
ns that are Halc-Orcs, Giants, Human/Dragons and so on...
Grayvie does not mean Bhaalspawn have to be human, he is referring to the way Bhaal has been assumed to take on the race or species of the mother when getting siring his progeny. Hence a half-orc (or half-elf) would have had a half-orc (or half-elf) mother. This practice is only relevant when explaning the PC's race, though, and there's no reason Bhaal couldn't have taken an orc form when "seducing" an NPC's human female mother. Unless his childmaking was more of the "Divine Spirit visit" kind rather than physical, I guess.
@SamuelVarg: The story clearly tells us that Il-Khan is a name of an orcish tribe and not a family name. The only connection Dorn has to Gromnir is that they probably were raised together in the same tribe.
Dorn's mother is human so the only way for him to be a half-orc is to have an orcish father (who was also mentioned in the short story). There is not a slightest chance that Dorn is a bhaalspawn. If he was a bhaalspawn he would've been human.
We have Bhaalspaw
ns that are Halc-Orcs, Giants, Human/Dragons and so on...
Grayvie does not mean Bhaalspawn have to be human, he is referring to the way Bhaal has been assumed to take on the race or species of the mother when getting siring his progeny. Hence a half-orc (or half-elf) would have had a half-orc (or half-elf) mother. This practice is only relevant when explaning the PC's race, though, and there's no reason Bhaal couldn't have taken an orc form when "seducing" an NPC's human female mother. Unless his childmaking was more of the "Divine Spirit visit" kind rather than physical, I guess.
My point exactly. Bhaal must have taken the form of a dwarf, elf, orc, human, giant and many other races.
Comments
You won't be able. Because good/evil is the most relative option on earth, and depends on each culture/religion/individuals.
It's not the same thing in a fiction world like the forgotten realm, because there the author can take the liberty of creating his own definition on evil based on his moral standards.
What you say @GueulEclator is pure syllogism. Yes, you're right solely in your affirmative that each culture/religion/individual in the world will define a concept of right/wrong, good/evil, but no one just wake one day and think "hey, now in my country/religion or my personal moral says that kill in cold blood is ok".
The fact that each person/religion/government is entitled to create his/her/it's own moral and ethic code, inside a limit called international treaties and conventions for countries and religions and law to individuals (that you're intensely trying to bypass), doesn't mean that good sense doesn't exist anymore.
So to end, try to avoid fallacies and syllogism to justify your points if you want to be taken serious.
You are, of course, perfectly aware of this. You try to be some sort of moral relativist because you have no argument to make otherwise. I also saw the post you deleted. Your question has been answered, several times; you simply refuse to acknowledge it. You are, thus, a troll. Thanks for playing, once more.
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/3845/alignments-for-rasaad-neera-and-dorn#latest
Voice acting is obviously great, but the dialogue is... well, way too academic for a half-orc who grew up with orcs.
The sound of his voice is saying - "silence! I kill you" but the tone is more like "He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."
Whats up with that?
am...am I neutral evil?
The story clearly tells us that Il-Khan is a name of an orcish tribe and not a family name. The only connection Dorn has to Gromnir is that they probably were raised together in the same tribe.
Dorn's mother is human so the only way for him to be a half-orc is to have an orcish father (who was also mentioned in the short story). There is not a slightest chance that Dorn is a bhaalspawn. If he was a bhaalspawn he would've been human.
Grayvie does not mean Bhaalspawn have to be human, he is referring to the way Bhaal has been assumed to take on the race or species of the mother when getting siring his progeny. Hence a half-orc (or half-elf) would have had a half-orc (or half-elf) mother. This practice is only relevant when explaning the PC's race, though, and there's no reason Bhaal couldn't have taken an orc form when "seducing" an NPC's human female mother. Unless his childmaking was more of the "Divine Spirit visit" kind rather than physical, I guess.