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The Candlekeep Library: Dorn Il-Khan

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  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    It's possible to Gromir II-Khan be an relative to Dorn, but no direct one as being Bhaal Gromnir father and a human Dorn's mother, the possible of brothership relation between them is excluded.
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    Actually, Gromnir is a half-orc too. So it's possible that Gromnir and Dorn share the same mother, although it's not likely.
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    for that happen, Bhaal would have to assume a half-orc identity, and from Dorn's history we aleady know that Dorn's father was an orc, not an half-orc.
  • Raistlin82Raistlin82 Member Posts: 256
    Hell, it's about time! I was so waiting for this one.

    I'm gonna skip the obvious joke about Dorn's heritage and go straight to saying that the voice acting is AWESOME!!
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    I think maybe the bhaalspawn mechanics aren't as cut-and-dry as we've been theorizing. If Gromnir was in the same tribe as Dorn, it's unlikely that Gromnir's mother would have been a half-orc, and much more likely that she was a human slave (like Dorn's mother) that Bhaal, in the likeness of an orc, used to sire his child. The resulting child would be a half-orc, and...

    Yeah, genetics don't work so well in D&D.
  • SamuelVargSamuelVarg Member Posts: 598
    kamuizin said:

    It's possible to Gromir II-Khan be an relative to Dorn, but no direct one as being Bhaal Gromnir father and a human Dorn's mother, the possible of brothership relation between them is excluded.

    Bhaal could have made two different human women pregnant as an orc.

    I really think that it is possible Dorn and Gromnir are half-brothers in the same way as they are half-brothers with the PC and Sarevok.

  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    I don't think he's Bhaalspawn. The story references his father, who is an orc. Unless mother had a tryst with Bhaal who had assumed the avatar of an orc, and the fact that Dorn was illegitimate was a family secret.
  • Raistlin82Raistlin82 Member Posts: 256
    edited September 2012
    You guys are all overlooking that the one thing these two have in common is their surname.
    Which they took from their clan (and MAYBE their respective fathers).
    This means that while we have no reason to think that Dorn is anything else that the "regular" son of a human woman and a Il-Khan orc, AS HIS BACKGROUND STORY THAT WE'RE DISCUSSING INDICATES...
    Gromnir could be the son of Bhaal and a half-orc woman of the Il-Khan clan (I didn't see any information about her mother being human), taking his surname from his mother and clan of adoption.
    Alternatively, and even more likely, Gromnir could have got his surname from the orc or half-orc that was SUPPOSED to be his father, REGARDLESS of who his mother was, and whether or not any of the people involved knew from the beginning that he was really a Bhaalspawn.
  • SamuelVargSamuelVarg Member Posts: 598
    Lemernis said:

    I don't think he's Bhaalspawn. The story references his father, who is an orc. Unless mother had a tryst with Bhaal who had assumed the avatar of an orc, and the fact that Dorn was illegitimate was a family secret.

    Thats my thought.

  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    I believe that a new bhaalspawn can be an infraction of the original content maybe (by the way i'm already pissed off with this fucking clause of non-changes in the original content).
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    @kamuizin eh, if he was going to be a bhaalspawn, it would have been part of their original contract agreement when they proposed the idea. One of those "exception to the rule" scenarios.

    I'm not saying he is or isn't (I don't live in @Dave or @PhillipDaigle's heads), but if he were, it would have been negotiated a while ago.
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    I think that no matter the form Bhaal takes, the offspring becomes the race of the mother. I am pretty certain we never see a Bhaalspawn who is anything but the race of their mother, so that if Dorn was a Bhaalspawn, he'd be human, not a half-orc. I don't see anything which says that Bhaalspawn inherited anything from Bhaal but his essence, and the powers derived therefrom.
  • ArcalianArcalian Member Posts: 359
    I don't know if he's 'spawn. I doubt it. But the fact that Dorn and Gromnir are both Il-Khan can't be coincidence.
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 10,214
    Actually I'd like to understand why all of the Bhaalspawn are not automatically demigods...
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    @mlnevese It's because they were sired while Bhaal was walking the earth as a mortal. He didn't have access to the whole of his divinity.

    It's kind of like if you mated with the avatar of a god. It's not the same as mating with the god itself.
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 10,214
    edited October 2012
    @Aosaw Didn't he start to spawn them before the time of troubles? It never became clear to me in the game and I never read the books about the Bhaalspawn saga.
  • Kitteh_On_A_CloudKitteh_On_A_Cloud Member Posts: 1,629
    I don't think Dorn is a Bhaalspawn. It just seems very unlikely to me. The story mentions his father (presumably a full-blooded orc) and his mother (a human) so how does Bhaal fit into this picture, actually? Just makes no sense from a narrative viewpoint. Dorn could as well have inherited his bloodlust from his father.
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    edited October 2012
    mlnevese said:

    @Aosaw Didn't he start to spawn them before the time of troubles? It never became clear to me in the game and I never read the books about the Bhaalspawn saga.

    Yeah, we deduced in another thread on the subject that he must have started 'spawning' earlier than the ToT based on the ages of the Bhaalspawn encountered in the game.
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    He can be the son of a bhaalspawn, even son of Gromnir (if the devs change their background history for this), but more than this i don't believe to happen.
  • Avenger_teambgAvenger_teambg Member, Developer Posts: 5,862


    We have Bhaalspawns that are Halc-Orcs, Giants, Human/Dragons and so on...

    Don't forget the squirrel.
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    There's a werewolf rabbit in fact, too.
  • hellhoundhellhound Member Posts: 33
    If Bhaal is lawful evil why arent his offspring automatically lawful evil? Can someone explain why Bhaal even is lawful and no chaotic...? Because murder is calculated and such uh?
  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    edited October 2012
    I don't really see why if a father is evil all his children must be evil too.

    Tieflings aren't automatically evil either, same for Aasimars and good alignment.
    Post edited by Tanthalas on
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    lol that's obvious, bhaal didn't made a clone, he made a children, and even a clone wouldn't be locked in lawful evil also.

    My only true misunderstand about this is why a lawful evil deity has his realm in the abyss, instead of the nine hells. Well, this is a bit confuse anyway, when the party enter on the pocket plane of SoA final chapter, some characters say it's the abyss, others say it's the nine hells. Cespenar made some direct affirmatives that the pocket plane is in the abyss (if i'm not wrong).
  • MortiannaMortianna Member Posts: 1,356
    kamuizin said:

    My only true misunderstand about this is why a lawful evil deity has his realm in the abyss, instead of the nine hells. Well, this is a bit confuse anyway, when the party enter on the pocket plane of SoA final chapter, some characters say it's the abyss, others say it's the nine hells. Cespenar made some direct affirmatives that the pocket plane is in the abyss (if i'm not wrong).

    I've always wondered about that as well, since Bhaal's realm (the Thone of Blood) is/was in Gehenna.

    @hellhound Since murder is the intentional, unlawful killing of someone, it never made sense to me either why Bhaal is Lawful Evil.

  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    edited October 2012
    Mortianna said:


    @hellhound Since murder is the intentional, unlawful killing of someone, it never made sense to me either why Bhaal is Lawful Evil.

    I don't think Lawful means that you'll always follow the law. I think Lawful is more that you always follow a certain code (be it the law or not).
  • MortiannaMortianna Member Posts: 1,356
    @Tanthalas Good point. Since laws vary from society to society, lawfulness isn't simply about following the laws of the land. Bhaal's lawful-evilness could be more about methodical and organized killing, as opposed to the mindless slaughter embraced by Chaotic Evil war gods (Greyhawk's Erythnul comes to mind).
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    This is easily my favorite of the shorts. So good!
  • SharnSharn Member Posts: 188
    Hes not a Bhaalspawn, no need to keep thinking that he is. Despite the fact that I believe its not the same thing, and that the children of a god would not be subjected to the same rules as a normal human would, the fact would remain that if he was a Bhaalspawn he would be the pc's sibling. Since he is a romancable character, that would probably cause an uproar from people who cant differentiate between a gods child and a regular child, hence, he is not a Bhaalspawn.
  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
    He's not a Bhaalspawn! He's a very naughty boy,
This discussion has been closed.