Romance is nice, but i would actually like something more deep than party banter and a sleep scene.
I wanted a romantic story, not necessarily with party followers, maybe even antagonists or npcs in the world, that involves quests, plot twists and twists with the actual theme of the game.
Something that would involve maybe emotional scarring of your character, maybe tragedy, knowing dark secrets from someone's past because you actually discovered them while you shouldn't, he/she didn't just tell you besides the campfire.
I am obviously asking for too much here, and if it's impossible, the romances as they are, should be fine i guess.
Although i would indeed prefer it if the romances were a bit more deep than the npc "tragically" revealing his past to you, telling what happened and how hurt he/she was from it doesn't really have a kind of emotional peak for me, but maybe it's just me. Maybe a bit more mature thinking and writing is in order, sometimes it seems that an 18 year old is behind the romance.
Or it just shows that romances in these games are just for consomation.
Everyone knows the ONLY true romance is "My Blade as my Bride!" but since the OP didn't put the option to romance my weapon, i will romance myself instead!
For better or wrost, the romance scene in Dragon Age: Origins, morrigan half-sex scene was truly an evolution (she was in underwear during the scene, the only bad thing). You can make the scene more romantic or spiced without being vulgar by just working the camera angles for example. I truly hope the new games to follow that.
Well, if we take for base that probally 97% of Baldur's Gate players have more than 18 years, i have to agree with @Mornmagor and i have to say that the actual romances are too much naive. Matrix among other movies weren't a 18+ years movies, and yet they had no problem with more hard romantic scenes.
@NWN_babaYaga Don't forget the world of AD&D has "Cure Disease" spells. If you are catching a disease from the ladies you are visiting, either visit a cleric or get the party cleric to do it. Fantasy World Problems. ;P
I'm all for more intricate NPC dialogues, whether it's romances or not.
That said, I think they need to rework how said dialogues work. The internal clock those dialogues move at are way too damn slow. If they happened and occured within a single hour of gameplay time, I'd be a lot happier because as it is now, I haven't completed a single romance or otherwise since my first one or two playthroughs. I simply beat it "too fast."
When I first played BG2 it seemed like a very good fantasy movie to me. Even while fighting through Irenicus' dungeon I thought that in a movie, the main hero would get Imoen in the end. After I found out that it is actually possible to have a romance with some NPC and that there is even more than one option... (sorry ladies) It just blown my mind. No other game has something like that.
In hindsight, I do want more options. Nalia should absolutely be romanceable by fighters who come to own her keep, Mazzy could be a perfect fit for any midget character like gnome, dwarf or halfling and having just one romanceable guy is stupid, why aren't Valygar and Celdorn an option? That would totally make sense. I liked both Aerie and Viconia, so I still have one romance left to complete, but women only got mods I suppose. A shame!
Ain't this the truth! I'd like to love on a human every now and then. Don't get me wrong, Aerie is good and all (I guess) but can I get a little love for my own race?
It's not a matter of whether I "need" them, it's a matter of "would it be nice." Which the answer is "yes!" I don't NEED them however, I prefer BG1 > SoA if that's any proof.
I don't really care for romances as such. What I'd like to see is more banter and friendships. Though I find the BG2 romances more tolerable than those of newer Bioware games. Atleast they seemed different. I mean Anomen proposes, Aerie gets pregnant and even gives birth(!) and Viconia changes alignment.
Contrast the Mass Effect games who have extremely lazy same-y romances. They sound like bad fan fiction! Choose kind and gentle dialogue options and you get a badly animated sex scene before the games climax. Rince and repeat with next character. *Yawn*. I found the Garrus bromance far more interesting than any of the romances in those games. Not to mention that in both Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age 2 roughly half of the characters are romanceable. That's when it becomes more pandering as opposed to extra NPC characterization.
If a game absolutely has to have aromance, I'll take a single well crafted optional one over seven lazy copy-pasted playersexual ones any day of the week.
It's not a matter of whether I "need" them, it's a matter of "would it be nice." Which the answer is "yes!" I don't NEED them however, I prefer BG1 > SoA if that's any proof.
It's not a matter of whether I "need" them, it's a matter of "would it be nice." Which the answer is "yes!" I don't NEED them however, I prefer BG1 > SoA if that's any proof.
I think my favorite friendship in BG2 was with Mazzy. There was no other character with whom I felt a strong camaraderie that grew naturally over time, without feeling like it was a romance that got cut.
Jaheira is now my favorite romance because of its depth, although when I first played the game (at the hopelessly romantic age of fourteen) it was Aerie.
Lol Aerie first romance normally is always screwed, cos serious, no man in his proper state of mind after a lot of fight an endure, would refuse an free pussy offer like that (if Aerie make justice to her portrait) with the option the game provides, it's sound just... incompetente (for the lack of a better word).
Actually, the reason why I now dislike Aerie's romance is that she plays the wounded maiden a little too "on the nose", which turns me off as a player. Jaheira's romance has much more of a story, and you get the feeling that your involvement is actually an important one that has an effect on her growth as a character. I've heard similar things about Viconia, although I'll admit that I've never recruited her in my party in a group that would allow me to romance her (either because I already was romancing Aerie or Jaheira, or because I was full up on clerics and didn't feel like taking the reputation hit for walking around with a drow).
My next play-through will probably use her, though, if only because I'm curious as to what she brings to the table.
But for romances in general, I'd much rather there be strong friendships before there's strong romances. The reason romances work is because they make you care about the characters; but it's an even greater reward (although for greater challenge) to create that same level of affection for a character the player isn't trying to "bone".
I agree that the BG2 romances were probably BioWare's best, probably because every single game they made afterwards reused the same female archetypes. There was always the sweet, innocent girl (Aerie, Tali, Liara, Dawn Star, Merrill), and there's always the bitchy, haughty woman who doesn't like you at first but warms up to you later (Viconia, Bastilla, Morrigan, Jack).
Mass Effect and DA2 made them even more shallow - the romances amount to little more than "You can talk to me five times! Say the right thing three times and I'll love you forever!" And don't even get me started on the deranged behaviour the romances provoke amongst fans...
Personally, I prefer RPGs with little to none romance. If romance is not incorporated in the plot somehow, then quite often it is just a cheesy thing that is totally redundant, and it feels like one of those dating simulation games (nothing against those, but they just don't fit in CRPGs). And that destroys the epicness of the journey.
I really ennjoyed the Viconia romance in BG2, but couldn't stand the other three. I thought the text interactions with Viconia were great. They caused me to eventually really care about her as a person, which for me had never happened before in a computer game, but does sometimes happen if I read a really good book.
The Viconia romance is really what made BG2 for me. Without it the game would have been considerably less interesting. One thing I found lacking though was that with exception of that yochlol and drow priestess, there were never any quests associated with the Viconia romance.
--Spoiler Warning--
I think it would be a great addition to the game if there were some quests related to the Viconia romance. One idea I had is that the party could rescue Viconia's brother (and maybe he could become a joinable NPC too). In the presently existing romance plot, Viconia says that she had a brother named Valas who sacrficed himself to save her when she was due to be executed for refusing to kill a baby. The other drow punished Valas by making him into a drider, which is basically a half-drow, half-spider creature. Viconia really seems to care about her brother and in ToB a shade pretending to be him appears outside Bhaal's temple alongside the Gorion shade. Given her reaction to the shade, it might make sense for dialogue to turn towards rescuing him.
Another thing, I hated the way the Viconia romance ended and it really didn't make sense anyway. I mean, why wouldn't she be able to stay with me if I become a god? At the very least I could make her a demi-god or high priestess of me and then she could have the power she had talked about wanting all game. If I opt to become a mortal (which I would only remotely consider in order to stay with her) she gets murdered in a way that could easily be reversed by any of a few dozens spells used all game, but for some reason the spells are not used so she dies young. At the very least I think there should have been a 3rd option, possibly as a result of options chosen within the romance, where there is a positve outcome of some sort.
Romance plots can be good, but they walk a fine line between "ridiculous" and "adding to the plot in a meaningful, non-intrusive and engrossing way". The latter is notoriously difficult to pull off, even in the TV and movie industries.
I'd say well over 90% of all movies ever made which include love stories have terrible romance plots. The ones with good romance plots win awards. The others crash and burn.
BG is a great game with a great story but it just doesn't provide the right setting for a decent romance, nor are the writers skilled enough to pull one off tastefully.
You want weird? I had Aerie, Viconia, and Jaheira all in one party. It added a lot of seeming dynamism. How well it was written is up for opinion though. Having them fight with and snipe at eachother was sure interesting though.
You want weird? I had Aerie, Viconia, and Jaheira all in one party. It added a lot of seeming dynamism. How well it was written is up for opinion though. Having them fight with and snipe at eachother was sure interesting though.
That's not weird. I think a lot of people did that...including me. <_<;
Comments
I need a non biased option from someone to vote, one that don't hate romances or the romance partness in game.
I would vote in this one.
I wanted a romantic story, not necessarily with party followers, maybe even antagonists or npcs in the world, that involves quests, plot twists and twists with the actual theme of the game.
Something that would involve maybe emotional scarring of your character, maybe tragedy, knowing dark secrets from someone's past because you actually discovered them while you shouldn't, he/she didn't just tell you besides the campfire.
I am obviously asking for too much here, and if it's impossible, the romances as they are, should be fine i guess.
Although i would indeed prefer it if the romances were a bit more deep than the npc "tragically" revealing his past to you, telling what happened and how hurt he/she was from it doesn't really have a kind of emotional peak for me, but maybe it's just me. Maybe a bit more mature thinking and writing is in order, sometimes it seems that an 18 year old is behind the romance.
Or it just shows that romances in these games are just for consomation.
Everyone knows the ONLY true romance is "My Blade as my Bride!" but since the OP didn't put the option to romance my weapon, i will romance myself instead!
Hmph
Well, if we take for base that probally 97% of Baldur's Gate players have more than 18 years, i have to agree with @Mornmagor and i have to say that the actual romances are too much naive. Matrix among other movies weren't a 18+ years movies, and yet they had no problem with more hard romantic scenes.
That said, I think they need to rework how said dialogues work. The internal clock those dialogues move at are way too damn slow. If they happened and occured within a single hour of gameplay time, I'd be a lot happier because as it is now, I haven't completed a single romance or otherwise since my first one or two playthroughs. I simply beat it "too fast."
In hindsight, I do want more options. Nalia should absolutely be romanceable by fighters who come to own her keep, Mazzy could be a perfect fit for any midget character like gnome, dwarf or halfling and having just one romanceable guy is stupid, why aren't Valygar and Celdorn an option? That would totally make sense. I liked both Aerie and Viconia, so I still have one romance left to complete, but women only got mods I suppose. A shame!
I wasn't offended by this one because it was more humorous than insulting, but still.
Contrast the Mass Effect games who have extremely lazy same-y romances. They sound like bad fan fiction! Choose kind and gentle dialogue options and you get a badly animated sex scene before the games climax. Rince and repeat with next character. *Yawn*. I found the Garrus bromance far more interesting than any of the romances in those games. Not to mention that in both Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age 2 roughly half of the characters are romanceable. That's when it becomes more pandering as opposed to extra NPC characterization.
If a game absolutely has to have aromance, I'll take a single well crafted optional one over seven lazy copy-pasted playersexual ones any day of the week.
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/4420
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/4573
What about now?
What about now?
What about now?
What about now?
What about now?
What about now?
What about now?
What about now?
What about now?
What about now?
What about now?
Jaheira is now my favorite romance because of its depth, although when I first played the game (at the hopelessly romantic age of fourteen) it was Aerie.
My next play-through will probably use her, though, if only because I'm curious as to what she brings to the table.
But for romances in general, I'd much rather there be strong friendships before there's strong romances. The reason romances work is because they make you care about the characters; but it's an even greater reward (although for greater challenge) to create that same level of affection for a character the player isn't trying to "bone".
Mass Effect and DA2 made them even more shallow - the romances amount to little more than "You can talk to me five times! Say the right thing three times and I'll love you forever!" And don't even get me started on the deranged behaviour the romances provoke amongst fans...
The Viconia romance is really what made BG2 for me. Without it the game would have been considerably less interesting. One thing I found lacking though was that with exception of that yochlol and drow priestess, there were never any quests associated with the Viconia romance.
--Spoiler Warning--
I think it would be a great addition to the game if there were some quests related to the Viconia romance. One idea I had is that the party could rescue Viconia's brother (and maybe he could become a joinable NPC too). In the presently existing romance plot, Viconia says that she had a brother named Valas who sacrficed himself to save her when she was due to be executed for refusing to kill a baby. The other drow punished Valas by making him into a drider, which is basically a half-drow, half-spider creature. Viconia really seems to care about her brother and in ToB a shade pretending to be him appears outside Bhaal's temple alongside the Gorion shade. Given her reaction to the shade, it might make sense for dialogue to turn towards rescuing him.
Another thing, I hated the way the Viconia romance ended and it really didn't make sense anyway. I mean, why wouldn't she be able to stay with me if I become a god? At the very least I could make her a demi-god or high priestess of me and then she could have the power she had talked about wanting all game. If I opt to become a mortal (which I would only remotely consider in order to stay with her) she gets murdered in a way that could easily be reversed by any of a few dozens spells used all game, but for some reason the spells are not used so she dies young. At the very least I think there should have been a 3rd option, possibly as a result of options chosen within the romance, where there is a positve outcome of some sort.
I'd say well over 90% of all movies ever made which include love stories have terrible romance plots. The ones with good romance plots win awards. The others crash and burn.
BG is a great game with a great story but it just doesn't provide the right setting for a decent romance, nor are the writers skilled enough to pull one off tastefully.