I hate the NPCs
PK2748
Member Posts: 381
So, I've never actually finished BG2 because I find the team members either incredibly tedious personality wise or awful in terms of build. I'm curious about community recommendations. Which would be the better experience: do the Baldur's Gate series with a full custom team, play the Black Pits or play Icewind Dale?
0
Comments
I didn't find the NPC's I used anything but awesome. Maybe I'm just blinded by my love of the series? Hahaha. But in my SoA run, I used Nalia, Valygar, Anomen, Jan, and Jaheira. Really interesting party, and I always found myself cracking up at Jan's stories.
If I could make my own recommendation, roll a single character that you love to play, and make your way through the entire series, and just play as that character. Take NPC's that your character would get along with, interact with the world as that character, and don't get pulled down by things like stats or having the best equipment. That's what I've been doing and I've loved every second of it.
BUT, if I had to pick one of those three options, I'd say play through BG with a custom party, and at least experience the epic storytelling.
Hope this helps, dude.
In terms of 'builds', I like the fact that they're not 'optimized'. That makes the game more interesting for me.
Having different NPCs join with you and getting to mix and match them into a party is part of the enjoyment of the game.
Any party combination can normally win the game. Each will have their own strengths and weaknesses - they are not meant to be uber characters but represent what npcs would normally look like and they can of course be powerful sometimes very powerful in their own ways; any flaws can be be overcome if you are using the right equipment or spells.
The interactions between the NPCs is one of the highlights of the game. They not only comment on the world but on what you do in the game. Why go through BG with a team of zombies that do not interact with you or the world? If you want to create your own party (and you can do that in BG) you might as well play IWD since you can create your own party as you like.
Of course there are some that find the NPC interaction less than enjoyable and that is of course a personal choice of how to play the game. And so in the end you can make your own party to go through BG but the true enjoyment of the game in my opinion is the NPCs that you meet and interact with along the way.
In the end what bothers you about the personalities of the NPCs? How are you creating your party that you think that they are awful in a team? These NPCs are not meant to be optimized, uber characters but regular adventurers along the Sword Coast so if they lack some skill or ability what do you have to do to over come these difficulties and make the "best" team that fits your idea of a party.
If you are just looking to hack your way with sword and magic through the game then maybe IWD might be a better game to do it in as it is more battle focused in general with the story being secondary to the battles.
The Black Pits are just gladiator battles in an arena which in the end you have to escape from because who wants to be a slave.
BG2 charm is its NPC interactions, if you do not enjoy those then it becomes a loose fitting dungeon crawl as you go from one quest to another. Icewind Dale will give you a tighter story with better tactical battles.
The first black pits is a good romp, but not as in depth as IWD. Haven't been able to get into the second black pits yet (as IMO, it starts off a tad too slowly).
Icewind Dale would be another strong option, though. It doesn't have as in-depth storytelling and is very hack-and-slash, but it's a fun romp with beautiful music and scenery.
What do you mean by "don't like in a role-playing sense"?
I'm thinking of a party of all the undervalued classes and kits might be fun
As for those other kits will those are for you to play with. Or you can change the NPC class with eekeeper if you like - Misnc makes a great barbarian or berserker; Jaheria can be a shaman; Mazzy can be a wizard slayer or undead hunter (actually undead hunter works will considering where you find her) ; Rassad is already the new sun soul monk. Valygar is already a stalker.
Of course you play good so no you can't really be a black guard.
Baldur's Gate, on the other hand, I feel like would be super fun to play through with an evil dude, and I plan on doing that after finishing up ToB. Maybe you should try playing outside your comfort zone if you feel restricted. it can't hurt to at least try. You may find yourself falling in love with these NPCs just by looking at them from a different character's point of view.
I guess the main differences between the series' are that BG's story is much more complex while IWD is mostly combat focused. So the question is, which of the two is more important to you.
Though I'd suggest you just play both >.>
PS: I am personally not a big fan of the Black Pits, because it's such a grind fest, so I'd personally put it last.
(Even though I really love Baeloth ...)
try playing BG2EE with
PC
Mazzy
Yoshimo > Imoen
Anomen
Rasaad
Keldorn (till you leave him with family) > Valygar/Aerie/Neera/Nalia (which ever you find the least annoying)
These are the more serious good RP characters in the game and if the PC is a spellcaster, makes a nice rounded party. If the PC isn't a spellcaster, then I suggest one of the three female mages instead of Valygar to round the party.
The way you hate the npcs, it means they evoke strong emotions, and are actually well written and strong characters.
You may find an npc to your liking, though. Have you tried all? Especially ee npcs?
Neera is fiercely independent and strong headed, but not as quirky as Jan or as bossy as Jaheira.
Rasaad is strong willed but troubled with vengeance thoughts and doubts in bg2, it is interesting to watch him doubt himself and his beliefs and to face the challenges throughout his quest.
Hexxat is mysterious and alluring, and definitely the most unique character you can have in bg2. Her quests are long and well-designed dungeon/tomb raids, which may appeal to you.
Dorn is...well I never played with him but you can find him to your liking, perhaps.
There is also Wilson...if you prefer a companion that will not talk.
As for the EE characters -
Neera: not just a Mage but a Mage that can't control magic. No thanks
Rasasd: monks don't belong in 2nd edition
Hexxat: I wish her introduction was a little less evil so it was easier to justify her in my good party. The only thief who isn't a Mage in BG2 and I just can't do it
Dorn: slso awfully dark
I did consider Mazzy, Vin Diesel, Anomen and Lou Diamond Phillips as a team though
"The monk was a main character class in the first edition Players Handbook. The monk was presented as one of the five core classes in the original Players Handbook."
People like to confuse their preferences and opinions, for what belongs in DnD or Forgotten Realms.
But if you don't like the NPC companions in BG2 there really isn't any point in playing.
Suggested low-irritating low-mage good party:
Jalhera
Mazzy
Wilson
Haer Dalis
Yoshimo/Imoen
Would suit a cleric or sorcerer protagonist.
Jaheira is incredibly annoying in response to @Fardragon and I don't like mixing Druids and clerics for some reason. I think the RP in my head makes me wonder how if Catholic and Methodist family members can't get through Thanksgiving how two people who draw actual power and authority from truly different potentially adversarial Gods function in a party together. It's obviously overthinking the issue but it influences me when I play..
The problem is IWD moves too slow in story to engage me somehow so I keep coming back to BG because I love the I.E. Second edition games but I can never quite get that party together in my mind right. So I keep coming back to BG and then struggling with the NPCs all being mages or vile personalities like Anomen, Cernd and Jaheira.
Edit: I haven't tried this, but I think there are mods to bring in BG1 NPC's into SoA. So if you hate them less than the ones in BG2, maybe you could try that.
The argument was that Monks don't belong in 2E. They existed in ADnD's 1E Player's Handbook, though.
And they were actually quite similar to their 3E implementation in BG.
AC, Movement, some magical resistance, 8d4 fist damage etc.
If they belonged in 1E and 3E, then why don't they belong in 2E? Because they're not the same in PnP?
Neither are the Sorcerer, Barbarian, Blackguard, Dragon Disciple, Cavalier and others.
Some are influenced by PnP kits, others by 3E classes. Yet I see no complain for all the custom kits.
And I believe the real issue is: "I don't like unrealistic eastern monks in my medieval fantasy game."
Which many people think DnD/Forgotten Realms is. When it never was neither medieval, nor realistic.
Frankly I think there were good reasons both for Vancian Magic and for removing the Monk from second edition for balance reasons. Balance matters in pen and paper which is where my objections are rooted. I don't object to the Kensai or other cultural favors I just prefer to keep the more balanced approach of second edition vs first edition.
My bias doesn't dictate how anyone else plays the game but it does influence my impression on the NPCs
HAH!
The monk was omitted from the 2nd edition core rules because of it's Eastern inspiration, and the core rules focused on Tolkienesque western fantasy. (making more room to make money by publishing supplements for other settings)
But Kara-Tur remains part of the Forgotten Realms campaign setting, with all it's monks, ninja, samurai, wu-jin and the rest. Rasaad comes from Calimsham, which is also culturally different to the "western" Sword Coast region.
That's kind of the point of the Forgotten Realms, it's a vast hodge-podge, and pretty much every fantasy culture exists their somewhere.