Skip to content

David_Gaider needs a list

11213151718

Comments

  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    And conversely, the detective/cop story can take place in any setting. I have read quite a few with fantasy settings, such as Terry Pratchett's Watch stories. Ben Aaronovich's Rivers of London novels are cop stories set in modern London, but feature wizards and fairies.

    Not that I have read anything in the FR campaign setting that suggests that working single mothers are at all rare, or that the entire population of the Sword Coast is certifiably insane.
  • NimranNimran Member Posts: 4,875
    Hard in Hightown by Varric Tethras was also a buddy cop story within a video game.
  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 5,352



    Yep, in cop shows, modern cop shows.

    Tell me why there are no wizards, orcs or gibberlings in the latest episode of CSI Detective.
    Could it be that they would be jarringly out of place in that genre?

    And if you do introduce them, which can be done with better writing, you don't place them in 20/21C America with the social mores of 20/21C America.

    And as for NPC's in BG being insane.
    Don't you think, given the setting, being insane is actually normal?
    Is it insane to raise the dead, turn undead, kill any who oppose you, venture into dungeons full of monsters, chat to Gods?
    It would be nowadays, FR not so sure.



    Didn't see this but it possibly gets to the crux of my problem with Corwin.

    How can she be a "normal person" as we judge, in a setting that would never and cannot produce our normalcy?
    She is normal in our view, but our view/world does not exist in game.

    This is so odd. Do you sincerely think that every single person in BG is "insane" by our modern day standards? You do realize you meet a ton of "normal" characters everywhere, all the time, like guards or other adventurers, right? Adding a less extraordinary and more down to earth NPC was a really good call IMHO, since it was a 'road less traveled' in the genre.
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    edited October 2016
    I would suggest that or hypothetical game should include a balanced mix of character types, from "normal" to "loony", then allow players the freedom to reject the characters that they don't like.

    That brings us back to the real issue of the total number of companions available. Nine seems to have become something of an industry standard (as well as having literary significance), but party size is usually smaller (3 or 4). With a party size of 6, you can't avoid having at least one overlapping character on each playthrough, unless you follow PoE and have a "create your own companion" option.

    Now, I am pretty sure Beamdog have nothing like the resources that where thrown at the companions in DAI, so we will have to assume that they can't have that level of complexity, especially if there are more than nine. I think most of us are agreed that we don't want/need companions to be fully voiced, so that is one area where savings can be made.

    Personally, I wouldn't mind if the party size was less than 6. I don't usually have more than four players in my PnP games.
  • kanisathakanisatha Member Posts: 1,308
    Fardragon said:

    Personally, I wouldn't mind if the party size was less than 6. I don't usually have more than four players in my PnP games.

    Have to jump in on this. A huge part of my enjoyment of a crpg is with respect to my party of companions: interracting with them, roleplaying with them, optimally equipping them, leveling them up, etc. Therefore, by definition, the smaller the party size the exponentially less my enjoyment of the game, to the point where I cannot truly enjoy a non-party-based rpg (like The Elder Scrolls games, for example).

    If the game has a party size of six, someone who only wants to have a party of three or four can still have what they want. But if the game's party size is three or four, those of us who get so much enjoyment from that larger party size are denied what we want.
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • NimranNimran Member Posts: 4,875
    I'm glad the ferrets and :cookie:s are in that list. Well done, @Doubledimas!
  • BGLoverBGLover Member Posts: 550
    My three (better late than never!):

    1. Party size of 6 (with a variety of detailed recruitable NPC's, each with different and rich interactions and stories)
    2. Meaningful but restricted choices over starting races and classes, and not everything being balanced! Too many games these days seem to suffer from allowing you to be anything you want, but with this broadening choice your actual choices seem to be diminished - as whatever you choose essentially boils down to the same end result, balanced to such an extent that everything ends up a bland unappealing beige. A bit better on this means a bit worse on that etc. Plus one here means minus one there. And so on. No, no no! Not all classes have to be balanced. Some should be more powerful than others. Some should be more challenging. And some choices shouldn't be allowed at all.
    3. An engaging story/plot.
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,459
    I think the guaranteed race/class selection is going to be (and this is going off memory).

    Races
    Human
    Elf (High, Wood, Drow)
    Dwarf (Hill, Mountain)
    Halfling (Lightfoot, Stout)
    Dragonborn
    Tefling
    Gnome (Rock, Forest)
    Half-Orc
    Half-Elf

    Classes
    Fighter (Battlemaster, Eldritch Knight, Champion)

    Barbarian (Totem, that other one)

    Paladin (Oath of Devotion, Vengeance, Ancients)

    Ranger (Hunter, Beast Master)

    Monk (Open Fist, Shadow, Four Elements)

    Cleric (War, Nature, Knowledge, Trickery, Tempest, Light, Life)

    Druid (Land, Moon)

    Rogue (Thief, Assassin, Arcane Trickster)

    Bard (Lore, Valor)

    Sorcerer (Draconic, Wild Mage)

    Wizard (Evoker, Conjurer, Illusionist, Enchanter, Transmuter, Abjurer, Diviner, Necromancer)

    Warlock (Old One, Archfey, Fiend)

    We have a small chance of seeing the Death Cleric and Oathbreaker Paladin from the DMG and probably an even less chance of seeing stuff like the Swashbuckler or bladesinger from the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide.

    I'm actually very surprised Sword Coast Legendd shipped with as few options as it did.
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    @Vallmyr

    I would say othbreaker paladins would need to be included at a fairly high priority level.

    The dwarven and halfling subraces are differently named in the FR setting.
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,459
    Fardragon said:

    @Vallmyr

    I would say othbreaker paladins would need to be included at a fairly high priority level.

    The dwarven and halfling subraces are differently named in the FR setting.

    Considering I love playing Death Clerics of Kelemvor in PnP I'd love to see both the DMG options as player options in the game, personally @_@
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    edited November 2016
    Yes, I remember Dave asking for input for what became the Dragon Age franchise. So maybe the question that should be asked is "what should be done differently to Dragon Age?"

    So, based on what people say, here are a list of things that should be different.

    1) Ruleset. Obvious, but a lot of the gameplay issues with DA are resolved by faithful implementation of 5th edition D&D rules.

    2) Party size. Most people would seem to prefer a party size of six. I favour four. Did DA have 3 or 4? I can't remember. This carries with it the implication that a greater total number of companions is needed, even if that means they have to be less developed.

    3) Following on from that, DA is fully voiced. I think the majority preference here is for part-voiced companions, since it makes adding additional content easier as well as freeing up development funds to use elsewhere.

    4) Personal villains. The big bad in DAO is a mindless disease, with obstacles thrown up by morally ambiguous characters. Even Game of Thrones, for all it's moral ambiguity, has some characters who are thoroughly bad. When DAI does eventually throw up a proper villain, he is Marvel-movie bland.

    5) Following on, alignments. Liked or not, alignments are part of the D&D FR setting. This affects how characters are perceived. For example, imagine playing through DAO if it said "Neutral" on Morrigan's character sheet, then imagine the same game if it said "Chaotic Evil".

    6) an issue that only really applies to DAI, but let's have quality over quantity when it comes to side quests.
    Post edited by Fardragon on
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    Fardragon said:

    Yes, I remember Dave asking for input for what became the Dragon Age franchise. So maybe the question that should be asked is "what should be done differently to Dragon Age?"

    Ironically, it is don't listen to the masses.

    Some of the metagame critique of Orgins include:

    "The mechanics are woefully inadequate in this game."
    " I have to all the time rearrange my "tactical" companion script with every new spell or skill and troubleshooting it through combat. I found this so very uncool, that I really just pray for end of it wave after wave of hurlocks genlocks nad other locks, so i would be able to see another cut scene of the plot"
    " clunky tactics system. . . but it was too complicated to be useful."
    "...getting to the same point and dieing because my AI is so poor."
    " the battle is slow and boring"

    So for 2 (and Inquisition) they sped up the battles, streamlined the combat to 3 button mashing and removed any tactics from the game. Improved the AI, so it could play the game for the player.

    Then threw it in an open world ('cause that's what all the kids are asking for) with a better (overpowered) crafting system ( "unrewarding Crafting system" claimed another review) and presto! Best game ever :neutral:
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,666
    well the battles in dao were slow there is no getting around it.
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    "Don't mention the war."
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 5,352
    Fardragon said:

    "Don't mention the war."

    Hehe, a fawlty tower's reference. If that's not worth an Insightful, nothing is ;)
  • ChadChad Member Posts: 90

    Before anyone goes down a path of discussion related to Dragon Age, they may want to keep in mind that I had a very specific position on the Dragon Age team and one that related solely to the story and dialogue - not the creative direction of the series.

    There is also no suggestion that Beamdog is about to make anything like Dragon Age - nor would I, having left that behind rather recently, be very interested in repeating something I just spent 10 years working on and deliberately walked away from.

    Just FYI. Carry on. :)

    To be clear, I wasn't saying you had anything to do with the gameplay changes from one to the next...just drawing correlation to the company you previously worked for making a great game, but then following up by turning things on it's head in the sequel... Wasn't trying to start a 'bash DA' conversation, really was just commenting that DA:O was a fantastic game and, while I am sure there was a great story in DAII (I liked what I saw and have heard it's a better story than the first game) the mechanics simplification was cringe worthy. My hope is that future games from Beamdog (infinity engine or otherwise) stay true to the type of gameplay and stories that give us a similar experience to what you get in PnP roleplaying games. Obviously there are some things that don't translate, but that's what BG did for me when I played it for the first time...made me feel like I was playing a really awesome set of pnp modules, albeit with a DM that didn't allow a whole lot of going off script. :P
  • batoorbatoor Member Posts: 676
    I wonder how 5th edition will look compare to 2E kits and 3E prestige classes. I like kits more than prestige classes, but I am curious how class fluff will look like in 5E adapted game.
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,459
    edited November 2016
    5e uses archetypes that act just like kits except classes choose them at different levels.

    For example upon hitting level 3 Bards choose a College to join. Currently the only canon ones are College of Valor or College of Lore though the Blade and Jester were published in an online article.

    The wizard chooses their arcane tradition at level 1 though.

    Since every class has to choose an archetype/arcane tradition/divine domain/bard college/whatever I imagine when you hit a certain level on level up you'll be brought to a screen to choose your class's archetype options.
  • ChadChad Member Posts: 90
    Vallmyr said it much better than me... I only played 3.x in video games and never played 4e in any format, but I did play 1e and 2e (many years ago) and recently started DM'ing 5e... The point I was trying to make though is what he said... There isn't really a Powerbuild that will break the game (there are, but they deal with weaknesses to essentially gain nova abilities once or twice per rest), likewise, as Vallmyr stated it's pretty tough to make a character that is completely worthless...unless you just took 2-3 levels in every class, I guess.
Sign In or Register to comment.