Assassin's Poison Weapon
cbarchuk
Member Posts: 322
Is Beamdog planning on adjusting this ability? Because right now it's terrible. I just recently continued a solo assassin game after a long break and I couldn't believe the nerf. I mean the assassin is kind of weak already.
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about Imoen
People seem to conveniently forget about the assassin's to hit/damage bonus that makes them stellar dart-throwers for most of the trilogy, as well as giving them easier and stronger backstabs even before tapping into that x7 goodness. Couple that with scaling that makes it arguably the only thief kit worth remaining single-classed in? Yeah no, the assassin's still relevant as ever.
Don't get me wrong, I miss the Poison stacking cheese but I'm not even going to defend it as a balanced ability. If anything I think it ties with Offensive Spin and the inquisitor's True Sight and dispel in terms of brokenness. I don't even think the blackguard's overpowered (idk how this is even a popular opinion, heck the bloody class can't even use Carsomyr)
- Imoen doesn't have many thief skill points.
- Imoen is an adequate thief for every individual segment of the game.
- It follows that you don't ever need many thief skill points.
can we stop pretending Poison Weapon wasn't a fragrantly abused ability that was horribly unbalanced for BG1?
We are in the BG2 board....
Assassin is my main class ... and I can say this class is still extremely fun and usable.
Also @joluv told so and I agreed, while no one except the OP told that the opposite is true.
..as giving them easier and stronger backstabs even before tapping into that x7 goodness.
For a 6 party people the 7x backstab come when it begin to be far less useful, more immune enemies and bosses, global power of the party so other means for wining or even breaking the game. For a soloer or who runs a party of 3-4 members is different, but this is true for everything, you trade quantity for quality.
Couple that with scaling that makes it arguably the only thief kit worth remaining single-classed in?
Also the Bounty Hunter has his inner power, and if powergame is not your only issue, in vanilla and for experienced players also in a modded game, the pure class imo is perfectly viable, useful, and have its inner power. Is not worth seems to me a little too much.
the Poison stacking cheese
Can cast Poison Weapon once per day (gaining additional uses out of the ability every four levels). When Poison Weapon is active each successful hit within the next 5 rounds will inject poison into the target, dealing.....
each successful hit, the stacking was the normal and intended behavior, so why cheesy?
Edit grammar error corrected
Edit n°2 easier and stronger backstabs even before....
Bonus +1 to hit and +1 damage are good for backstabbing, and not only for that, I agree. But again you trade something (thief ability points) for some other things. This in a class that is not inherently OP, the thief. The thief and the assassin can become very powerful if the player is proficient in using him or smart in merge its power with some other thing dualing, but is this not true for many other classes and kits. Berseker, Archer, Blade, Sorcerer, Mage... ok, I stop here, I guess that you get my point, that game is not perfectly balanced and maybe it would become very boring over stressing on the balance.
One thing I would like to see in future though would be a higher backstab modifier earlier, if the devs are so inclined. RR also used this approach, leaving the assassin 1+ backstab modifier earlier already in BG. I found this helped compensate for the weaker poison weapon (at least it seemed so to me!).
If we stipulate that pure-class Thieves are (very) viable, though, then let's consider the advantages Assassins have in the late game. They have +1 THAC0 and damage; x7 backstabs that are far from irrelevant, even though certain creatures are immune; and poison weapon, which does a reliable +6 poison damage and often more. Ongoing poison is especially devastating against spellcasters, and they're generally more likely to fail their saves vs. death. Irenicus, for example, will be successfully poisoned on 45% of hits.
The only price you pay is fewer skill points. But you're going to gain XP fast and be swimming in cash, which means you'll have a crapload of skill points, none of which need to be spent on pickpocketing.
@joluv You make good points about pure thieves. They sometimes get dismissed on power gaming grounds, but they are indeed viable. As for assassins, it seems that some people are fine with the new poison while others miss the old one. Personally I wouldn't mind something in between. A little more guaranteed damage over time would be nice. In any case, it looks like we've got two options now, with the 2.0 version and Tresset's files.
Scaling up to x7 by the end of the game is big, but it leaves the player waiting for their kit's advantage to kick in. I would change the Assassin's backstab progression to a flat +1 multiplier over the Thief; that would cap them at x6, but start them at x3. Less power in the long run, more power early on. Makes the kit feel competent and specialized, without totally destroying the game's power curve.
To replace the extended progression levels, I'd give the kit a passive buff that automatically applies poison to every successful backstab starting at, say, level 17. That might be too much, but it would be thematically appropriate.