The vertical icons worked in ver. 1.3 and the current patch when they were opposite from the relevant text. Then the eye could just continue right for more information. With the bars and scroll bar, this connection is gone. I also don’t find having the screen dominated by 5 huge icons visually appealing.
On top of that, the space for artwork is reduced and the stats section of the screen takes over again.
If by the first one you mean the main screen, that is the one that it is important to keep a role-play feel in. The second one is the one that will have flashing lights and such, if that toggle is left on. At least this has been my understanding.
The modes are meant to be independent. You pick one and it is remembered until you toggle it again. It doesn't mean the first is "main", it can be vice versa, though one of them would be default, it doesn't matter which. You just pick the one you like. Either the "simplified" with just labels and hover effect, or the "advanced" with all the info in one scrollbar space with collapsible paragraphs.
I like the simplified view but would probably use the 2nd mode more in practise. I don't know, hmmmm....
I am quite taken with the simplified mode being vertical, the addition of APR is great, but would prefer the horizontal arrangement for icons if/when I toggled to the other mode so I'd want APR to appear as text only too there.
The team watches, and the team listens. Beamdog has demonstrated that we are not above getting permission for and incorporating user suggestions / mods into the game. We can't promise, and we can't always comment, but we're watching...
@Mr2150: I'm not a fan of your box inside a box idea surrounding the ground items. The dark brown can work, but it should fill out the entire yellow square, not sit within it.
I actually really like this one! It's nice how the inventory and ground items sit besides each other in the same frame. It's also really nice to have an icon for APR, as well as have a much taller scroll window! Horizontal icons could work, but it would again lead to APR's icon falling off, and a considerable smaller scroll window.
I'm not sure how people see this as a database screen when it has one row of icons, and one text window, whereas 1.3 compartmentalized a lot more, being shaped a lot more like a data screen.
I can see how people are worried about the stats taking over the inventory screen, but in all honestly, inventory is stats. You equip a certain item based on the stats it provides, so yeah, the stats are an important section of the inventory screen!
I wasn't advocating Box in a Box... just using the existing ornamentation and repositioning it based on the feedback that it wasn't level. To do that, I had to extend the existing box-in-a-box for ground items.
I then had to fill the empty gap with something and using the dark brown was the easiest thing to hand.
I had put this in the post exactly for that reason: 'Please don't worry about the ornamentation - I've just put it in the way I have to try to make it look balanced and I'm not a graphics artist.'
I didn't look at the type of ornamentation, but the location is important in mockups like this. I think the brown box surrounding the ground items, and the yellow box surrounding the brown box should be a single box, whether that box is yellow or brown.
OK - that's interesting - as 2.3 uses a separate box in a box approach from previous versions albeit smaller (and it's one of my personal bug bears).
Because you end up with this in BGEE:
BG2EE, next to it, isn't so bad, but for my eyes the two borders meeting like that is not nice (and is not used elsewhere except as a border around the character).
So in that sense we are agreed to remove the box in a box.
@Pecca I think maybe one of the reasons that the 5 vertical icons may be perceived as dominating the screen is the ratio of ornamentation to empty space.
For me, the blue area is very thin, and the green empty space area is a much thicker. So it looks like the icons are then dominating the space.
I'd suggest you change the thickness of the blue area (making the ornamentation thicker), and reduce the green area - as it might help lessen the domination by the icons whilst maintaining a separation between the icons and the left hand side.
You may need to recentre the icons into the remaining space after.
Heh, yeah, the placement, width etc was pretty much random, I was just throwing an idea. It would definitely look better if I catered for details, but I don't think it would look too different.
I thickened the blue area, reduced the green area and added some ornamentation at the top, re-aligned the ornamentation at the bottom. Obviously, this is just an example of what I meant and not a final mock-up... so just for illustration purposes:
For me, now, that icon area feels 'part' of the screen rather than just 'on' the screen... if that makes sense.
Looks good! The only thing that irks me a bit is that the bar left of the icons is a little thicker than the bar right of the icons. Perhaps the bar right of the icons could be makde a little thicker as well, to separate them slightly more from the textbox, now that the icons no longer align with the textbox?
Considering some people find the stats too infringing on the main window, what if we spread the stats out over the left and right sides, and bring the paper doll more towards the middle of the screen, where it used to be in the vanilla games:
My only issue would be eye movement, as I need to keep moving my eyes - left/right/left/right to see the 'total' and then the breakdown. It could be too radical for some.
I have considered that. If you want to look at both the big numbers and the details, you have to go forth and back across the screen. How often would you need to do that, though? And perhaps this could be bypassed by including the values either in the header bars, or on the first line of each section.
I'm not fully convinced on it myself, either, but I personally don't mind the stats taking up a big section of the inventory page. Stats are important to me. Others seemed to have a problem with it, so I'm wondering if this would lighten the load for them.
Fair point - and having the numbers in the headers too - would solve it. They would be there if the header was collapsed (as per the header on the Hit Points section) anyway, so it makes it a permanent feature rather than only when collapsed.
If we are thinking of radical ideas - one thing I'd like to do is reduce the amount of mouse movement needed... To pick up an item from ground and put it in my inventory, sometimes the movements are 1/2way across the screen.
The largest movement is indicated in the top picture. Rearranging the slots would dramatically reduce the amount of mouse movement needed. It could also help 'reduce' space for that section so that space could be used more effectively for something else.
I think it would be impractical and unintuitive to have the stat numbers and breakdowns so far apart, they are part of the very same concept, in my opinion.
The screen itself is also getting too far back to a boxy, mechanical look for me.
If we could retain the horizontal arrangement of icons for one of the togglable options, I of course have no problem with having another option for people who prefer a different layout.
As for the ground box, I dislike having the ground slots and the inventory slots in the same frame with little to distinguish them from one another. What if the free space around the box was filled in with ornamentation?
Honestly, it's a bad PS hackjob. But it could be pretty, if some visual artists decided to work on a similar layout... Beamdog. *nudge nudge wink wink*
If we are thinking of radical ideas - one thing I'd like to do is reduce the amount of mouse movement needed... To pick up an item from ground and put it in my inventory, sometimes the movements are 1/2way across the screen.
The largest movement is indicated in the top picture. Rearranging the slots would dramatically reduce the amount of mouse movement needed. It could also help 'reduce' space for that section so that space could be used more effectively for something else.
I think going from the 8x2 grid to the 4x4 grid is a bit too radical a change. The 8x2 inventory grid has been like that since forever, and tossing it out to make mouse movements slightly smaller seems too radical a change for the base user interface. Could be nice in a mod, though.
You could stimulate this a bit by placing the ground box above or below the inventory box. However, that would require the rearranging of most of the other information on the screen for that to fit.
I prefer how you had it before @Adul , with the same golden brown used around the ground slots as is used around the inventory slots.
The other thing that keeps striking me is, does the scroll box need to be so wide? My eye keeps seeing unnecessary space between the end of the separator bars and the scroll bar.
I wonder if it might soften the impact of that area if that space was narrowed just a bit. Maybe with ornamentation evenly place on either side of it?
I played a little bit with the icons and it's true that too large icons look bad. But to allow proper functionality for larger fonts, the space for those statistics needs to be large. So I replaced the standard icons with this concept:
This way, five statistics can be placed even in horizontal format.
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On top of that, the space for artwork is reduced and the stats section of the screen takes over again.
If by the first one you mean the main screen, that is the one that it is important to keep a role-play feel in. The second one is the one that will have flashing lights and such, if that toggle is left on. At least this has been my understanding.
I am quite taken with the simplified mode being vertical, the addition of APR is great, but would prefer the horizontal arrangement for icons if/when I toggled to the other mode so I'd want APR to appear as text only too there.
I'm not sure how people see this as a database screen when it has one row of icons, and one text window, whereas 1.3 compartmentalized a lot more, being shaped a lot more like a data screen.
I can see how people are worried about the stats taking over the inventory screen, but in all honestly, inventory is stats. You equip a certain item based on the stats it provides, so yeah, the stats are an important section of the inventory screen!
I wasn't advocating Box in a Box... just using the existing ornamentation and repositioning it based on the feedback that it wasn't level. To do that, I had to extend the existing box-in-a-box for ground items.
I then had to fill the empty gap with something and using the dark brown was the easiest thing to hand.
I had put this in the post exactly for that reason: 'Please don't worry about the ornamentation - I've just put it in the way I have to try to make it look balanced and I'm not a graphics artist.'
Because you end up with this in BGEE:
BG2EE, next to it, isn't so bad, but for my eyes the two borders meeting like that is not nice (and is not used elsewhere except as a border around the character).
So in that sense we are agreed to remove the box in a box.
For me, the blue area is very thin, and the green empty space area is a much thicker. So it looks like the icons are then dominating the space.
I'd suggest you change the thickness of the blue area (making the ornamentation thicker), and reduce the green area - as it might help lessen the domination by the icons whilst maintaining a separation between the icons and the left hand side.
You may need to recentre the icons into the remaining space after.
I thickened the blue area, reduced the green area and added some ornamentation at the top, re-aligned the ornamentation at the bottom. Obviously, this is just an example of what I meant and not a final mock-up... so just for illustration purposes:
For me, now, that icon area feels 'part' of the screen rather than just 'on' the screen... if that makes sense.
I increased the thickness of the right separator and added curves at both ends...
My only issue would be eye movement, as I need to keep moving my eyes - left/right/left/right to see the 'total' and then the breakdown. It could be too radical for some.
I'm not fully convinced on it myself, either, but I personally don't mind the stats taking up a big section of the inventory page. Stats are important to me. Others seemed to have a problem with it, so I'm wondering if this would lighten the load for them.
The largest movement is indicated in the top picture. Rearranging the slots would dramatically reduce the amount of mouse movement needed. It could also help 'reduce' space for that section so that space could be used more effectively for something else.
The screen itself is also getting too far back to a boxy, mechanical look for me.
If we could retain the horizontal arrangement of icons for one of the togglable options, I of course have no problem with having another option for people who prefer a different layout.
As for the ground box, I dislike having the ground slots and the inventory slots in the same frame with little to distinguish them from one another. What if the free space around the box was filled in with ornamentation?
Like that, but, uh, done better?
You could stimulate this a bit by placing the ground box above or below the inventory box. However, that would require the rearranging of most of the other information on the screen for that to fit.
The other thing that keeps striking me is, does the scroll box need to be so wide? My eye keeps seeing unnecessary space between the end of the separator bars and the scroll bar.
I wonder if it might soften the impact of that area if that space was narrowed just a bit. Maybe with ornamentation evenly place on either side of it?
This way, five statistics can be placed even in horizontal format.
For me, I'd maybe prefer it like this:
Lovely icon representations nonetheless...