Very cool @Grond0! I think Sorcerers are made for this challenge - lets see how far you can push him!
You are right @histamiini: Spellcasters are just superior for this kind of challenge. My Berserker was only doing no-fighting quests but i decided that getting to level 3 is enough before switching to Druid. Level 7 will be reached soon - hopefully. More details later!
Well Fael has made it past the Bandit Camp. I didn't fancy my chances of surviving the lightning trap at level 8, so did a lot more work to get a final level. With no charm or summons sirines looked a touch risky, so most of the required XP was gained from a thorough cleansing of the ankheg area.
L9 spells taken included mirror image and that successfully prevented any damage being taken from the lightning trap.
Krell the Berserker/Druid is doing fine so far. To give you some insight what he has been doing so far i give you his exact route:
Candlekeep 250 XP Marl 900 XP Firebead 300 XP Hobgoblin 200 XP Noober 400 XP
-----Level 2-----
Albert and Rufie 1000 XP Brage 1000 XP
-----Level 3----- -> Druid
Mutamins Garden 22.200 XP
-----Level 6-----
Spiders 4x270 XP Silke 900 XP Firebead 2700 XP Landrin 800 XP Tenya 2500 XP Shoal 5000 XP
-----Level 7-----
Mad Arcand 300 XP Hentold 900 XP Samuel 500 XP Joia 3x35 XP + 400 XP Brun 500 XP + 1000 XP Ankhegs 3x 975 XP Wenric 20x 65 XP + 800 XP Melicamp 2000 XP Greywolf 1400 XP Prism 1000 XP Neira 650 XP Ulcaster 1000 XP Meilum 1200 XP Battle Horrors 2x 4000 XP Cloud Peak Dryad 350 XP + 500 XP
-----Level 8-----
The very start was clear: Go for the easy-to-do quests until Krell hits level 3. More Berserker levels would be nice but as i am not going to play him as a melee fighter i think that this is okay. Even more as leveling up any Fighter class - and getting up the Druid afterwards - looks not to be like an easy task. Maybe i am wrong!
In Mutamins Garden Korax was not able to kill all Basiliks cause his charm ended too fast. The main problem was: Krell could not contribute to the damage and had to wait outside of their gaze range. At least Mutamin got paralyzed right at the beginning and went down without getting out any spells. Could have been worse!
Next was Beregost and the Ghast from charmed Tiax. He managed to kill the Spiders and Silke while Krell was casting Call Lightning and punching the paralyzed enemies. Firebead was somewhat tricky cause of his many CC spells (Rage!) and even more cause he is running all the time. But once the Ghast managed to land a blow Krell rushed in and they took him down together.
Tenya on the other hand was easy as Sonner was taken out using Flame Blade while Shoal was killed by a charmed Wolf plus Call Lightning. One recharm was needed before the Sirene went done and level 7 was finally reached.
With Nymphs available as well as the fast moving bear form Krell can now go for the hunt. Before - and even more as a Berserker - the world really felt like a harsh and menacing place where running seems to be the only option to stay alive any longer. I like that. And even more that this kind of challenge forces me to think in new directions. It was kind of a creativity boost in the last days - something i had lost since Korgaths victory over Amelyssan or Ekluns no-reload-march into ToB. Without @Grond0´s poverty runs i would not have given this one a try. Thanks man!
However: So far Krell did not need any reloads - which is a good sign. This will change a lot later on so i will not keep up the strict no-reload-rules for the whole run. Its more about how far poverty can be pushed and to test different classes and ideas. Maybe no-reload is something for the future. Maybe not. We will see!
P.S. Hunting Zombies for Wenric was so much fun! Pulling whole groups of them to let Lightning Strikes tear them apart. Shocking!
P.P.S. Farming Ankhegs? No problem thanks to Hold Monsters and Call Lightning combined with some good old bear punching!
P.P.P.S. Getting Ulcasters Tomes? No problem: Just use Bear Form! Protection from Fire and Rage kept Krell safe from any harm!
Four enjoyed risk free dialogue and travel by invisibility pretty long in Chapter 10, first interesting encounter was to lure Myconids to the Crudarer mob in Underground River. Used the Secret Revealed on Zadroth in Kanaglym and he could do nothing, got his Robe of Aptitude which offers Spell Sequencer. Nothing else to do so I headed to the basement. Tanked the Belden mob with Durlag's Goblet and WoMS. Put on PfM and invisibility and activated Hephernaan, used WoMS, Dispelling Arrows and melee to deal with the three of them, waited invisible some time so the huge mob dispersed a little, snatched the good armor from the ground and made my escape.
Crusader Attack, put on fire protection armor and ring to get 110 resistance, PfM and bunch of potions including 10 Heroism. Troll mob, 2xWeb sequencer and Arrows of Detonation. Chugged more Heroism Potions. 3xWeb sequencer and Arrows of Detonation dealt the mage mob. Used the robe to make another Web sequencer. Third mob, you guessed it, 3xWeb sequencer and Arrows of Detonation. I didn't count them but used probably 60 of them in the three attacks. Last attack I used my last 20 Arrows as Garrus and co was tanking them.
Ashatiel ruined the defense of Dragonspear Castle as she always does, what a dork. Put on PfM and buffed up to battle the bridge in Hell, don't know if that was necessary but anyway. Now just Bel left and I've everything I need for him so it should be fine. PfM, Red Potion, Fortitude, Agility, 2xMind Focusing, 10 Heroism, 10 Power, Speed, and 19xDurlag's Goblet. I was planning to sequence Fireshield Red, Blue and Stoneskin, but Red does nothing so I have to still think the third option for it, I take it two Blues don't stack? Four is so tired so it will have to wait for tomorrow.
Best of luck @histamiini. You could consider using Otiluke's in your sequencer if you're planning to stand and fight - that will give you some free damage before you have try and finish things off.
@Grond0 I thought about it, but I think it goes against the melee tanking tactic, as I've 10 minutes from bottom of the elevator to when PfM ends. Cavalier did it about 9 minutes and he did more damage than Fighter/Illusionist. I think I'll go with
Minor Sequence at top of elevator with Blur and Resist Fear so I don't have to use Kiel's Helmet. Spell Sequence when Bel dispels with Protection from Evil, Fireshield Blue and Stoneskin.
I have still some planning to do, like checking alignments and other stats with Near Infinity to maximise damage output. It's nice that you can sleep in hell without ever being disturbed.
Fael goes past Davaeorn. He spent a while killing Drasus & co (not necessary, but I just couldn't resist it) with the help of some monster II summons and then sneaked down to Davaeorn. Monsters helped kill the battle horrors before he tried throwing skull traps at Davaeorn from out of sight. He eventually reacted to that and Fael quickly retreated to rest. More skull traps then killed nearly all the guards before Davaeorn was free to move. Some summons got him to show himself and ctrl-M found he was down to 3 HPs. I thought he would probably be shielded, so used an acid arrow to kill him rather than going to rest.
That meant no invisibility was left, but Fael eventually managed to rest outside the mine before going back in to flood it.
Fael rested and acquired another slow poison before I remembered that I'd intended he should get a horror instead. Oh well, he continued on to the City, but did nothing at all there other than sneaking into the Iron Throne (he was already at the XP cap and obviously all the equipment was of no use to him). After reporting to Duke Elton he successfully cast invisibility during the cut scene, preventing any of the ogre magi from casting. He again just sneaked through Candlekeep and went invisibly on his way back to Baldur's Gate.
In the City he murdered a couple of innocents in order to get a vampiric touch as well as DUHM. Slythe died to spells and summons before Krystin had finished buffing and Fael left her alone. I always felt though that the palace was a likely ending spot - the inability to rest there exposing the lack of resources of a poverty-stricken sorcerer. Initial summons killed the doppleganger cleric while Liia was safe in invisibility. Fael then waited a long time for a skeleton warrior to disappear before exposing himself to try and gather all the dopplegangers together. He used remove magic to try and get rid of their haste and then threw in a couple of skull traps before one of the standard greater dopplegangers attacked. I was hopeful of the possibility of killing that and a final ogre took it to near death before the familiar attacked to try and finish it off. That would have still needed a fair amount of running round, however, and in the process of that I discovered that the aim of gathering all the dopplegangers together had not been entirely successful .
I should have used remove magic right at the start of the fight - I had a bit of a duuh moment there, by initially thinking that would remove haste from my summons as well. If I'd done that and eventually been left with only unhasted opponents I can see a realistic possibility of winning that fight. Of course even if I'd succeeded in that, Sarevok would be looming ahead ...
@Harpagornis True, I'm just trying to think every angle of the fight. Hopefully it goes smoothly.
Checked enemies with Near Infinity, and all are Lawful Evil and Demonic, so no Modron Heart but yes Ring of Crusade and Ring of Purity. All except Erinyes do slashing damage so slashing belt adviced, and missile boots for Erinyes.
Max AC
-9 Base (Daeros Full Plate, Cloak/Helm of Balduran and Twinkle) -2 Dex Potions -7/-8 Armor+Belt/Boots Modifiers -2 Ring of Purity -2 Ring of Crusade -3 Blur -2 Protection from Evil
-27/-28 Slashing/Missiles
Max enemy Thac0 besides Bel (-14) is Hephernaan (2) so slashing belt can be replaced with Belt of Skillfull Blade, and minions still can't hit other than rolling 20.
I tested the fight against Sarevok a little bit more with Druids and i think there are some more - pretty cool - options:
Doom + Charm Person on Semaj (this might take some tries). Once he got charmed let him cast Skull Trap on Diarmids spawning point (which is random - too bad Angelo is immune thanks to Globe). Rest and repeat (as he is invisible again Dispel Magic first) until 15+ Skull Traps are out - this will either kill Diarmid or at least put him close to death as his PfM is not precast! Make sure to take out some Bats first as they can trigger the traps. Important: This will need many rests and/or reloads and is very time consuming!
You can also use Semajs Monster Summoning III to bring Tazok close to zero. Too bad that Semajs charm breaks when the talking with Sarevok triggered otherwise this would be another easy kill. Therefore: Animal or Monster Summoning to bring Semaj down to zero too.
This means only Angelo and Sarevok will be left. When Semajs Globe is down it is possible charm him with Mental Domination (Save vs Spell 6,) so he could have some fun with Sarevok.
With reloads its also possible to let two Nymphs dominate Diarmid (who can hurt Sarevok quite good) and two Nymphs for Angelo. If this works (say hello reloads!) the Druid will be in a even better position to bring down Sarevok. Hopefully!
EDIT: Damn it @Grond0! But why not putting the no-reload-restriction away to get deeper insight on the really tough fights?
As Sirenes have proven to be difficult enemies (the Nymphs cannot target them!) Krell decided to finally farm some Ankhegs. Together with three Nymphs he paralyzed the beasts and burned them down with Call Lightning and some Bear punchning - just take a look:
With Pixie Dust now available its finally time to start the main quest. Mulahey is waiting!
EDIT: Mulahey went down like a sack of potatoes as the Nymphs held him with Hold Monster before he could call his summons!
EDIT2: Tranzig like always resisted all CC´s but Krell managed to avoid all spells and charm his wolves to give him a good punching!
EDIT3: Bandit Camp was more tricky! Thanks to Iron Skin + Protection from Lightning + Barksin + Rage + Bear Form + two decoy Nymphs outside + Pixie Dust Krell sneaked into the tent and grabbed the documents to rush out as fast as possible afterwards. Even though Iron Skin dropped, poison triggered and his HP went down to 41 HP he ran into the woods to heal up via rest. Job done!
0 PfM 1 Violet Potion 2 Fortitude 3 Agility 4-5 2 Mind Focusing 6-10 5 Heroism 11 Speed Go 12-14 3 Heroism 14-23 First Mob + 4 Heroism 23-35 Second Mob + 3 Power 35-48 Third Mob + 7 Power 49 Speed 50 Resist Fear + Blur sequencer
So that leaves 491/522 hp and about 5 minutes to deal with Bel, shouldn't take more than 2, and I'll enjoy smacking him around. Started the fight with Protection from Evil, Fireshield Blue and Stoneskin sequencer, and tanked Bel like a champion without even using goblet. But...
if something can go wrong, computer surely makes it go wrong, and Bel just randomly decided to start teleporting away and leaving me crowded and needing to fight my way out. I always got just few hits until Bel again teleported away. Now this became a fight against the time, as 5 minutes was beginning to close up, my buffs started to fade and Goblet was nearing its bottom. Got Bel to near death, but surely enough Resist Fear ended, I didn't notice it as I was concentrating on PfM and that was it. Damn.
Why was Bel teleporting away constantly from melee range? It never happened when I tested it with Cavalier, need to test this out.
Cavalier couldn't lose but suddenly I can't win the battle, Bel keeps teleporting away. And not only that I get diseased through "Foul Poison" or something which kills my Thac0. Cavalier was immune to poison so I had no clue about this either.
EDIT: learned that you can actually use scrolls through PfM so I protected against poison, but it's "Foul Disease" that hits me. Never had this either...
Damn it @histamiini. As we have stated earilier the Cavalier is in a very strong position against Big B thanks to his immunities and bonus hit/damage. The only one who would come close in melee combat would be the Ranger with Racial Enemy.
The disease is really nasty - too bad you were not aware of it. But with regard to Big B: In my installation he is also teleporting away from time to time even when engaging him hard in close combat. It looks like a random trigger that ports him back to the eastern section. Sometimes he uses it to call in more demons sometimes he is just reengaging.
@Harpagornis Yeah Cavalier is made for Belhifet, I wonder why it didn't get diseased? And it wasn't Fear that killed me, but Stun from Cornugon which never happened to me either... So now I've to add Greenstone Amulet to the evergrowing list of buffs.
Oh yeah @histamiini thats something that have killed me too in the past. Cornugons are not to be taken easy!! You get a good feeling how dangerous the demons around Big B really are when playing a poverty run. If you do not buff up with spells they will throw so many things at you its really crazy. There are:
- Hold Person - Charm Person - Domination - Lightning Bolt - Produce Fire - Cornugon Stun - Aura of Fear - Poison Attack
Not to forget all the different Arrows that the Erinyes will shoot at you. When looking at all this CC/damage you can imagine that (nearly) all classes will face a neverending nightmare in a poverty challenge. My Totemic Druid for instance not only got feared constantly - sometimes he was just paralyzed. Or the Cornugons used Lightning Bolts (forgot to buff up). Or the Abishai burned me down with their Fire ability. Not to speak of Big B himself.
Ok found the tactic against Bel's teleporting, just drink invisibility potion and the crowd disperses so you can find Bel again. Won the battle using 9 invisibility potions and PfM still on, but I think it was close because my Power Potions had faded away. So the list of things I used vs. Bel
PfM Violet Potion Fortitude Agility 2 Mind Focusing Speed 12 Heroism (you can probably drink close to 30 in the lift, more the better) 10 Power Resist Fear + Blur sequencer PfP Speed 4 Greenstone Amulet PfE + Fireshield Blue + Stoneskin sequencer 9 Invisibility 12 Durlag's Goblet
That should cover the fight in no-reload form for any fighter in melee. I think I'll revert to reload playthrough now and probably take Four through the SoA also.
Yeah, Invisibility will make them scatter @histamiini so you can slip out again. With your setup Fighter classes can tank down Big B for quite some time - even without the Mage part.
Playing on is always an option! Dont you think that the F/M will get a bit boring when looking at his endless power potential?
@Harpagornis Could be, but I'm too tired of the grinding in BG1 atm, and it will give me some insights how to deal stuff being mage when Five eventually enters, hopefully to SoA.
Bear in mind that Cornugons have Human as their racial enemy, so their THAC0 against a human Charname would be -2 in LoB mode.
The Cornugons' attack has a 50% chance of dealing 1 slashing damage (not poison) per round for 6 rounds with no save and a 50% chance of stunning for 12 seconds on a failed save vs. death.
Bear in mind that Cornugons have Human as their racial enemy, so their THAC0 against a human Charname would be -2 in LoB mode.
The Cornugons' attack has a 50% chance of dealing 1 slashing damage (not poison) per round for 6 rounds with no save and a 50% chance of stunning for 12 seconds on a failed save vs. death.
Hmm, Cavalier has better save vs. death than F/I Gnome so that probably helped back then, and I might have also used Potion of Invulnerability which would've made me immune to it. Now it could have protected me possibly also from the disease... There's always something to miss.
Okay, i have finally found some time to update the OP. I put in new rule settings like "no-Reload" and "Poverty" while also deleting several players that have finished or abandoned their runs. The title of this thread got changed too cause of the poverty madness in the last week. I hope that we can motivate new challengers in the next year!
The whole challenge has went a long way and i am really fascinated how far we have pushed the borders. At the very beginning i was thinking: Solo + LoB? Close to impossible! Then we added SCS and it looked again like: No, please! But the longer the challenge lasted the more ideas came up. @Grond0 and @Blackraven had then pushed it even more playing no-reload only. No-reload? Really? That was something where i always thought: Never ever!! But as @Grond0 kept on dying someone had to help him!
Switching to no-reload myself was like exploring a completly unkown world with new risks but high rewards. Every death pushed my motivation even more even though every death was really, really painful. In the last time the Poverty Runs from @semiticgod and @Grond0 (you again!!) catched my attention. I used this setting in other games and it was (nearly) always a pleasure as it forces the player even more to think in new directions. In the last week this one was another boost of creativity and so far i am enjoying it a lot.
What about the future of this challenge? Even though we have come really far - @Harpagornis and @histamiini have already beaten the basic challenge - there is still a lot of work. The no-reload challenge is still open and i dont think that Eklun my Totemic Druid -> Fighter will be able to do it. I very much like @histamiini and his very detailed and sometimes mindblowing preparation so i will give his Fighter/Mage very high potential. I also think that @semiticgod would give the no-reload challenge a real push if he manages to reach SoA - where he tends to know everything. Too bad he is toying around with all kinds of Mods!
The Poverty challenge is on its own level - even more when combining it with no-reload. At the moment i dont think that there is any viable way to finish it. Maybe thats another candidate for "Will i live long enough for this challenge" - no?
I am also thinking about a level-1-noober challenge but thats something for hardcore masochists only. Well...
@Harpagornis I've to admit that this challenge has been a bag of fun, even as much that it's probably really hard to ever return to normal party playthrough for me. That will probably require some new content from Beamdog to ever happen again. Evolving the challenge also keeps things interesting so thanks to everybody introducing them, as it keeps you enjoying the game over and over again. Not currently interested in the poverty run, but that might change eventually, I wasn't interested in no-reload either at the beginning.
I was thinking of continuing the SoA and got my 34 hp familiar ready, when some strange emptiness hit me, and it was the lure of no-reload. So I have to roll Five later today.
Looks like a fully buffed Fighter/Mage/Cleric with Fire Shield: Blue would take down Belhifet in 42 rounds assuming a THAC0 of -2 (I've seen that number from Potions of Power) or 57 rounds with a THAC0 of 1. It's not within the 40-round duration of Potions of Power, so it would need to take a break at some point to run around and re-drink another round of potions.
As for an Archer/Mage dual-class, it won't be remotely capable of dealing with Belhifet in melee (with only one pip in melee weapons at most, its damage output will be terrible), but it can deal 15 per round on average and kill him in 74 rounds, and it should have the power to take down the other demons and keep Belhifet isolated: dual-classed at level 8, it would have -5 THAC0, 4 APR, and deal 13.5 damage per hit with +1 arrows (saving +2 arrows for Belhifet).
Problem is, if I abide by the XP caps, the Archer/Mage will be stuck at mage level 5 until SoD: I need to dual-class at level 8 to get a second Called Shot, which takes 125,000 XP and leaves 36,000 available before SoD, just shy of level 6. @Harpagornis, do you think a level 5 mage could handle BG1 and the first dungeon of SoD? Would a level 8 Archer (fighter, not ranger) be better suited? I'll be playing with EET, so I can go back to Mutamin's Garden in SoD and restart the basilisk XP loop if necessary.
I know how powerful wands are, but I'm concerned about the cost of recharging them. I don't want to end up farming ankhegs just to keep all our wands charged. How many charges might I need to deal with the mandatory fights of BG1?
Either character should be fine for BG2, as long as I have a couple castings of Called Shot (unless I use the WoL trick with Called Shot, in which case a single one will pretty much end the game). Both characters have a quick kill option for bosses: the Fighter/Mage/Cleric will have Critical Strike+Harm/Martyr's Morningstar and the Archer/Mage will have Called Shot+Called Shot+Improved Haste+Minute Meteors/Energy Blades/Scorcher Ammunition/Frag Grenades.
Theoretically even a level 1 character can beat BG1 @semiticgod - at least with reloads. As i am not used to the Mage class @Grond0 might give you a more competent answer on the level 5 problem.
You get called shot with an no-ranger-but-fighter Archer? What Mod is this?
@semiticgod if you're not putting restrictions on the use of items I think either Archer or Mage should be able to do both BG1 and the opening dungeon of SoD without too much problem. You don't need to invest huge amounts of money in wands. About 30,000 would buy you fully charged wands of monster summoning and fire and that's considerably more than required for all the mandatory fights. For an archer you would want at least 2 fully charged necklaces (only 10,500) - ammunition would be rather more expensive than that on the assumption you want to take arrows of detonation forward from BG1.
Tweaked the Bel fight a little, and it's much easier with just one Potion of Invulnerability as it downs saves to below zero, so you don't have to bother with PfP or Greenstone Amulet, as you wont get poisoned, diseased or stunned.
Four vs. Bel round by round
0 PfM 1 Violet Potion 2 Fortitude 3 Agility 4-5 2 Mind Focusing 6-10 5 Heroism 11 Speed Go 12-14 3 Heroism 14-x Fighting, 21 Heroism, Power, Speed, Invulnerability, Resist Fear + Blur sequencer (About 50 rounds, 500 hp and below 0 saves) Bel During Dispel, PfE + Fireshield Blue + Stoneskin sequencer Lastly needs about 5 Invisibility when Bel teleports and 6 hits from the goblet
Should be repeatable. (again)
Rolled Five, Half-Elf Fighter/Mage nr, so basically I traded better saves and extra spell slot for some Skulling.
60x Arrows of Detonation will cost you 12060 gold (Rep 20, Cha 20), 50x Arrows of Dispelling 10050. Should be doable.
Looking at Xahrks run i can agree with @Grond0 that fully charged wands are more than enough to complete BG1 and will last even in SoD for quite some time. Kiting works in most parts so if you got the patience there is no need for wands in SoD @semiticgod - except for the big fights.
Yeah, that looks like a decent battle plan @histamiini. Poor Big B gets smaller and smaller with every week. No?
You get called shot with an no-ranger-but-fighter Archer? What Mod is this?
There are three mods you can use. First is the Generic Archer kit from Tactics; second is the Marksman kit from Might and Guile (among lots of other changes, but the changes are customizable); and third is my own Universal Archer Kit mod, which also extends the kit to paladins. Unless you install other stuff from Might and Guile that change the effects of Called Shot (no more STR drain!), all three mods give the exact same fighter kit. The only difference is the name: Generic Archer, Marksman, and Archer.
I once tried a no-reload Archer/Thief run of BG2 and ToB and restarted several times, but I gave up on the challenge after I got Mazed in ToB. I chose a thief because I wanted to use Jan's flashers with a WoL Called Shot to deal near-instant STR drain kills bypassing all immunities, but since an EE update rigged NPC-exclusive items to not work with UAI, flashers are no longer an option for an Archer/Thief.
I just cannot get it work @Grond0! What i mean? Well: The Farsight + Summon trick against Davaeorn. I lured the Battle Horrors away, called in summons and used Far Sight - but - right when they start attacking Davaeorn goes hostile and turns invisible. What am i doing wrong?
After some thinking i changed the tactic: Nymphs -> Farsight -> Mental Domination -> watch how the Battle Horrors tear him apart!
Except for Aldeth Sashenstar Krell skipped Cloakood completly using Pixie Dust. Thanks to poverty Drasus and friends are not worth the time so next stop will be Baldurs Gate. With some questing level 10 should be reached soon - hopefully!
Comments
You are right @histamiini: Spellcasters are just superior for this kind of challenge. My Berserker was only doing no-fighting quests but i decided that getting to level 3 is enough before switching to Druid. Level 7 will be reached soon - hopefully. More details later!
L9 spells taken included mirror image and that successfully prevented any damage being taken from the lightning trap.
Candlekeep 250 XP
Marl 900 XP
Firebead 300 XP
Hobgoblin 200 XP
Noober 400 XP
-----Level 2-----
Albert and Rufie 1000 XP
Brage 1000 XP
-----Level 3----- -> Druid
Mutamins Garden 22.200 XP
-----Level 6-----
Spiders 4x270 XP
Silke 900 XP
Firebead 2700 XP
Landrin 800 XP
Tenya 2500 XP
Shoal 5000 XP
-----Level 7-----
Mad Arcand 300 XP
Hentold 900 XP
Samuel 500 XP
Joia 3x35 XP + 400 XP
Brun 500 XP + 1000 XP
Ankhegs 3x 975 XP
Wenric 20x 65 XP + 800 XP
Melicamp 2000 XP
Greywolf 1400 XP
Prism 1000 XP
Neira 650 XP
Ulcaster 1000 XP
Meilum 1200 XP
Battle Horrors 2x 4000 XP
Cloud Peak Dryad 350 XP + 500 XP
-----Level 8-----
The very start was clear: Go for the easy-to-do quests until Krell hits level 3. More Berserker levels would be nice but as i am not going to play him as a melee fighter i think that this is okay. Even more as leveling up any Fighter class - and getting up the Druid afterwards - looks not to be like an easy task. Maybe i am wrong!
In Mutamins Garden Korax was not able to kill all Basiliks cause his charm ended too fast. The main problem was: Krell could not contribute to the damage and had to wait outside of their gaze range. At least Mutamin got paralyzed right at the beginning and went down without getting out any spells. Could have been worse!
Next was Beregost and the Ghast from charmed Tiax. He managed to kill the Spiders and Silke while Krell was casting Call Lightning and punching the paralyzed enemies. Firebead was somewhat tricky cause of his many CC spells (Rage!) and even more cause he is running all the time. But once the Ghast managed to land a blow Krell rushed in and they took him down together.
Tenya on the other hand was easy as Sonner was taken out using Flame Blade while Shoal was killed by a charmed Wolf plus Call Lightning. One recharm was needed before the Sirene went done and level 7 was finally reached.
With Nymphs available as well as the fast moving bear form Krell can now go for the hunt. Before - and even more as a Berserker - the world really felt like a harsh and menacing place where running seems to be the only option to stay alive any longer. I like that. And even more that this kind of challenge forces me to think in new directions. It was kind of a creativity boost in the last days - something i had lost since Korgaths victory over Amelyssan or Ekluns no-reload-march into ToB. Without @Grond0´s poverty runs i would not have given this one a try. Thanks man!
However: So far Krell did not need any reloads - which is a good sign. This will change a lot later on so i will not keep up the strict no-reload-rules for the whole run. Its more about how far poverty can be pushed and to test different classes and ideas. Maybe no-reload is something for the future. Maybe not. We will see!
P.S. Hunting Zombies for Wenric was so much fun! Pulling whole groups of them to let Lightning Strikes tear them apart. Shocking!
P.P.S. Farming Ankhegs? No problem thanks to Hold Monsters and Call Lightning combined with some good old bear punching!
P.P.P.S. Getting Ulcasters Tomes? No problem: Just use Bear Form! Protection from Fire and Rage kept Krell safe from any harm!
Crusader Attack, put on fire protection armor and ring to get 110 resistance, PfM and bunch of potions including 10 Heroism. Troll mob, 2xWeb sequencer and Arrows of Detonation. Chugged more Heroism Potions. 3xWeb sequencer and Arrows of Detonation dealt the mage mob. Used the robe to make another Web sequencer. Third mob, you guessed it, 3xWeb sequencer and Arrows of Detonation. I didn't count them but used probably 60 of them in the three attacks. Last attack I used my last 20 Arrows as Garrus and co was tanking them.
Ashatiel ruined the defense of Dragonspear Castle as she always does, what a dork. Put on PfM and buffed up to battle the bridge in Hell, don't know if that was necessary but anyway. Now just Bel left and I've everything I need for him so it should be fine. PfM, Red Potion, Fortitude, Agility, 2xMind Focusing, 10 Heroism, 10 Power, Speed, and 19xDurlag's Goblet. I was planning to sequence Fireshield Red, Blue and Stoneskin, but Red does nothing so I have to still think the third option for it, I take it two Blues don't stack? Four is so tired so it will have to wait for tomorrow.
Minor Sequence at top of elevator with Blur and Resist Fear so I don't have to use Kiel's Helmet.
Spell Sequence when Bel dispels with Protection from Evil, Fireshield Blue and Stoneskin.
I have still some planning to do, like checking alignments and other stats with Near Infinity to maximise damage output. It's nice that you can sleep in hell without ever being disturbed.
However: Good luck @histamiini! Not to forget: In Avernus i usually get ambushed by lesser demons when resting. Strange!
Fael rested and acquired another slow poison before I remembered that I'd intended he should get a horror instead. Oh well, he continued on to the City, but did nothing at all there other than sneaking into the Iron Throne (he was already at the XP cap and obviously all the equipment was of no use to him). After reporting to Duke Elton he successfully cast invisibility during the cut scene, preventing any of the ogre magi from casting. He again just sneaked through Candlekeep and went invisibly on his way back to Baldur's Gate.
In the City he murdered a couple of innocents in order to get a vampiric touch as well as DUHM. Slythe died to spells and summons before Krystin had finished buffing and Fael left her alone. I always felt though that the palace was a likely ending spot - the inability to rest there exposing the lack of resources of a poverty-stricken sorcerer. Initial summons killed the doppleganger cleric while Liia was safe in invisibility. Fael then waited a long time for a skeleton warrior to disappear before exposing himself to try and gather all the dopplegangers together. He used remove magic to try and get rid of their haste and then threw in a couple of skull traps before one of the standard greater dopplegangers attacked. I was hopeful of the possibility of killing that and a final ogre took it to near death before the familiar attacked to try and finish it off. That would have still needed a fair amount of running round, however, and in the process of that I discovered that the aim of gathering all the dopplegangers together had not been entirely successful
I should have used remove magic right at the start of the fight - I had a bit of a duuh moment there, by initially thinking that would remove haste from my summons as well. If I'd done that and eventually been left with only unhasted opponents I can see a realistic possibility of winning that fight. Of course even if I'd succeeded in that, Sarevok would be looming ahead ...
Checked enemies with Near Infinity, and all are Lawful Evil and Demonic, so no Modron Heart but yes Ring of Crusade and Ring of Purity. All except Erinyes do slashing damage so slashing belt adviced, and missile boots for Erinyes.
Max AC
-9 Base (Daeros Full Plate, Cloak/Helm of Balduran and Twinkle)
-2 Dex Potions
-7/-8 Armor+Belt/Boots Modifiers
-2 Ring of Purity
-2 Ring of Crusade
-3 Blur
-2 Protection from Evil
-27/-28 Slashing/Missiles
Max enemy Thac0 besides Bel (-14) is Hephernaan (2) so slashing belt can be replaced with Belt of Skillfull Blade, and minions still can't hit other than rolling 20.
Doom + Charm Person on Semaj (this might take some tries). Once he got charmed let him cast Skull Trap on Diarmids spawning point (which is random - too bad Angelo is immune thanks to Globe). Rest and repeat (as he is invisible again Dispel Magic first) until 15+ Skull Traps are out - this will either kill Diarmid or at least put him close to death as his PfM is not precast! Make sure to take out some Bats first as they can trigger the traps. Important: This will need many rests and/or reloads and is very time consuming!
You can also use Semajs Monster Summoning III to bring Tazok close to zero. Too bad that Semajs charm breaks when the talking with Sarevok triggered otherwise this would be another easy kill. Therefore: Animal or Monster Summoning to bring Semaj down to zero too.
This means only Angelo and Sarevok will be left. When Semajs Globe is down it is possible charm him with Mental Domination (Save vs Spell 6,) so he could have some fun with Sarevok.
With reloads its also possible to let two Nymphs dominate Diarmid (who can hurt Sarevok quite good) and two Nymphs for Angelo. If this works (say hello reloads!) the Druid will be in a even better position to bring down Sarevok. Hopefully!
EDIT: Damn it @Grond0! But why not putting the no-reload-restriction away to get deeper insight on the really tough fights?
With Pixie Dust now available its finally time to start the main quest. Mulahey is waiting!
EDIT: Mulahey went down like a sack of potatoes as the Nymphs held him with Hold Monster before he could call his summons!
EDIT2: Tranzig like always resisted all CC´s but Krell managed to avoid all spells and charm his wolves to give him a good punching!
EDIT3: Bandit Camp was more tricky! Thanks to Iron Skin + Protection from Lightning + Barksin + Rage + Bear Form + two decoy Nymphs outside + Pixie Dust Krell sneaked into the tent and grabbed the documents to rush out as fast as possible afterwards. Even though Iron Skin dropped, poison triggered and his HP went down to 41 HP he ran into the woods to heal up via rest. Job done!
0 PfM
1 Violet Potion
2 Fortitude
3 Agility
4-5 2 Mind Focusing
6-10 5 Heroism
11 Speed
Go
12-14 3 Heroism
14-23 First Mob + 4 Heroism
23-35 Second Mob + 3 Power
35-48 Third Mob + 7 Power
49 Speed
50 Resist Fear + Blur sequencer
So that leaves 491/522 hp and about 5 minutes to deal with Bel, shouldn't take more than 2, and I'll enjoy smacking him around.
if something can go wrong, computer surely makes it go wrong, and Bel just randomly decided to start teleporting away and leaving me crowded and needing to fight my way out. I always got just few hits until Bel again teleported away. Now this became a fight against the time, as 5 minutes was beginning to close up, my buffs started to fade and Goblet was nearing its bottom. Got Bel to near death, but surely enough Resist Fear ended, I didn't notice it as I was concentrating on PfM and that was it. Damn.
Why was Bel teleporting away constantly from melee range? It never happened when I tested it with Cavalier, need to test this out.
EDIT: learned that you can actually use scrolls through PfM so I protected against poison, but it's "Foul Disease" that hits me. Never had this either...
The disease is really nasty - too bad you were not aware of it. But with regard to Big B: In my installation he is also teleporting away from time to time even when engaging him hard in close combat. It looks like a random trigger that ports him back to the eastern section. Sometimes he uses it to call in more demons sometimes he is just reengaging.
- Hold Person
- Charm Person
- Domination
- Lightning Bolt
- Produce Fire
- Cornugon Stun
- Aura of Fear
- Poison Attack
Not to forget all the different Arrows that the Erinyes will shoot at you. When looking at all this CC/damage you can imagine that (nearly) all classes will face a neverending nightmare in a poverty challenge. My Totemic Druid for instance not only got feared constantly - sometimes he was just paralyzed. Or the Cornugons used Lightning Bolts (forgot to buff up). Or the Abishai burned me down with their Fire ability. Not to speak of Big B himself.
PfM
Violet Potion
Fortitude
Agility
2 Mind Focusing
Speed
12 Heroism (you can probably drink close to 30 in the lift, more the better)
10 Power
Resist Fear + Blur sequencer
PfP
Speed
4 Greenstone Amulet
PfE + Fireshield Blue + Stoneskin sequencer
9 Invisibility
12 Durlag's Goblet
That should cover the fight in no-reload form for any fighter in melee. I think I'll revert to reload playthrough now and probably take Four through the SoA also.
Playing on is always an option! Dont you think that the F/M will get a bit boring when looking at his endless power potential?
The Cornugons' attack has a 50% chance of dealing 1 slashing damage (not poison) per round for 6 rounds with no save and a 50% chance of stunning for 12 seconds on a failed save vs. death.
The whole challenge has went a long way and i am really fascinated how far we have pushed the borders. At the very beginning i was thinking: Solo + LoB? Close to impossible! Then we added SCS and it looked again like: No, please! But the longer the challenge lasted the more ideas came up. @Grond0 and @Blackraven had then pushed it even more playing no-reload only. No-reload? Really? That was something where i always thought: Never ever!! But as @Grond0 kept on dying someone had to help him!
Switching to no-reload myself was like exploring a completly unkown world with new risks but high rewards. Every death pushed my motivation even more even though every death was really, really painful. In the last time the Poverty Runs from @semiticgod and @Grond0 (you again!!) catched my attention. I used this setting in other games and it was (nearly) always a pleasure as it forces the player even more to think in new directions. In the last week this one was another boost of creativity and so far i am enjoying it a lot.
What about the future of this challenge? Even though we have come really far - @Harpagornis and @histamiini have already beaten the basic challenge - there is still a lot of work. The no-reload challenge is still open and i dont think that Eklun my Totemic Druid -> Fighter will be able to do it. I very much like @histamiini and his very detailed and sometimes mindblowing preparation so i will give his Fighter/Mage very high potential. I also think that @semiticgod would give the no-reload challenge a real push if he manages to reach SoA - where he tends to know everything. Too bad he is toying around with all kinds of Mods!
The Poverty challenge is on its own level - even more when combining it with no-reload. At the moment i dont think that there is any viable way to finish it. Maybe thats another candidate for "Will i live long enough for this challenge" - no?
I am also thinking about a level-1-noober challenge but thats something for hardcore masochists only. Well...
If anyone has new ideas: You are welcome!
I was thinking of continuing the SoA and got my 34 hp familiar ready, when some strange emptiness hit me, and it was the lure of no-reload.
As for an Archer/Mage dual-class, it won't be remotely capable of dealing with Belhifet in melee (with only one pip in melee weapons at most, its damage output will be terrible), but it can deal 15 per round on average and kill him in 74 rounds, and it should have the power to take down the other demons and keep Belhifet isolated: dual-classed at level 8, it would have -5 THAC0, 4 APR, and deal 13.5 damage per hit with +1 arrows (saving +2 arrows for Belhifet).
Problem is, if I abide by the XP caps, the Archer/Mage will be stuck at mage level 5 until SoD: I need to dual-class at level 8 to get a second Called Shot, which takes 125,000 XP and leaves 36,000 available before SoD, just shy of level 6. @Harpagornis, do you think a level 5 mage could handle BG1 and the first dungeon of SoD? Would a level 8 Archer (fighter, not ranger) be better suited? I'll be playing with EET, so I can go back to Mutamin's Garden in SoD and restart the basilisk XP loop if necessary.
I know how powerful wands are, but I'm concerned about the cost of recharging them. I don't want to end up farming ankhegs just to keep all our wands charged. How many charges might I need to deal with the mandatory fights of BG1?
Either character should be fine for BG2, as long as I have a couple castings of Called Shot (unless I use the WoL trick with Called Shot, in which case a single one will pretty much end the game). Both characters have a quick kill option for bosses: the Fighter/Mage/Cleric will have Critical Strike+Harm/Martyr's Morningstar and the Archer/Mage will have Called Shot+Called Shot+Improved Haste+Minute Meteors/Energy Blades/Scorcher Ammunition/Frag Grenades.
You get called shot with an no-ranger-but-fighter Archer? What Mod is this?
Sorry i lack time - more later!
Four vs. Bel round by round
0 PfM
1 Violet Potion
2 Fortitude
3 Agility
4-5 2 Mind Focusing
6-10 5 Heroism
11 Speed
Go
12-14 3 Heroism
14-x Fighting, 21 Heroism, Power, Speed, Invulnerability, Resist Fear + Blur sequencer
(About 50 rounds, 500 hp and below 0 saves)
Bel
During Dispel, PfE + Fireshield Blue + Stoneskin sequencer
Lastly needs about 5 Invisibility when Bel teleports and 6 hits from the goblet
Should be repeatable. (again)
Rolled Five, Half-Elf Fighter/Mage nr, so basically I traded better saves and extra spell slot for some Skulling.
Looking at Xahrks run i can agree with @Grond0 that fully charged wands are more than enough to complete BG1 and will last even in SoD for quite some time. Kiting works in most parts so if you got the patience there is no need for wands in SoD @semiticgod - except for the big fights.
Yeah, that looks like a decent battle plan @histamiini. Poor Big B gets smaller and smaller with every week. No?
I once tried a no-reload Archer/Thief run of BG2 and ToB and restarted several times, but I gave up on the challenge after I got Mazed in ToB. I chose a thief because I wanted to use Jan's flashers with a WoL Called Shot to deal near-instant STR drain kills bypassing all immunities, but since an EE update rigged NPC-exclusive items to not work with UAI, flashers are no longer an option for an Archer/Thief.
After some thinking i changed the tactic: Nymphs -> Farsight -> Mental Domination -> watch how the Battle Horrors tear him apart!
Except for Aldeth Sashenstar Krell skipped Cloakood completly using Pixie Dust. Thanks to poverty Drasus and friends are not worth the time so next stop will be Baldurs Gate. With some questing level 10 should be reached soon - hopefully!