Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Categories

Planescape: Torment: Enhanced Edition has been released! Visit www.planescape.com to purchase and check for details. Planescape: Torment: Enhanced Edition Official Soundtrack is available.
Soundtracks for BG:EE, SoD, BG2:EE, IWD:EE are now available in the Beamdog store.
Attention, new and old users! Please read the new rules of conduct for the forums, and we hope you enjoy your stay!

NOW Debbie Reynolds has died!! - F$#% you, 2016!

SharGuidesMyHandSharGuidesMyHand Member Posts: 2,100

This is just so heart-wrenching - in the span of a mere week:

-Zsa Zsa Gabor dies just a couple months shy of her 100th birthday, then her son dies just days later.

-George Michael dies on Christmas Day - a cruel irony in light of his holiday standard "Last Christmas."

-Carrie Fisher dies, followed one day later by her equally famous mother.

New Year's Day can't come soon enough...
TeflonelminsterNonnahswriterButtercheese

Comments

  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 1,700
    People die all the time. Why should these deaths upset you? Did you know them personally?
    FinneousPJKamigoroshi
  • TeflonTeflon Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 517
    Well, as always famous ppl passed away and i didnt know them "personally" and vice versa. But cannot help feel sad :(
    I say rest in peace.
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 1,700
    I am merely pointing out the fact that people being upset over a celebrity death is irrational. Unless you are a family member or an offline friend to the celebrity who died, that person's death actually has zero impact on your life. As with most things, it is a matter of perception and relative importance. If I tell you that Miriam Ann Savino died on Christmas Eve your reaction will probably be either "who?" or "so what?". Why is her death any less tragic than someone else's? Is she less important simply because she wasn't famous?

    No one is actually vulnerable when a celebrity dies, unless they are a family member or close friend. People only *think* they are vulnerable because they feel *as if* some part of their own life has died when, in reality, it has not. People place far too much importance on celebrities, whether in life or in death. Yes, I enjoyed Prince's music, as well as Mr. Bowie's music/movies, Mr. Rickman's movie performances, etc. but I am not actually going to miss them. To me, their deaths are unfortunate circumstances rather than tragedies.

    I see things differently than most people. Sometimes other people have difficulty understanding my perspective. *shrug*

    On a related topic, this "f*** you 2016" meme is ridiculous. 2016 as a year has been no more disastrous than any other year. What if twice as many celebrities die in 2017? What if 2017 is the year a meteor strikes the planet? Will the meme become "f*** you, too, 2017"?
    FinneousPJKamigoroshi
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 4,841
    "2016" is an arbitrary human construct. Death comes to us all.
    TeflonCrevsDaak
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 4,841
    Shandyr said:

    Of course people will grieve someone's death more if they have been emotionally attached to that person. That is normal, human and actually rational, in my opinion.
    And yes there are people who can emotionally attach themselves to celebrities for whatever reasons.

    Emotion is not rational. It's emotional.
    CrevsDaak
  • ShandaxxShandaxx Member Posts: 6,700
    edited December 2016

    Shandyr said:

    Of course people will grieve someone's death more if they have been emotionally attached to that person. That is normal, human and actually rational, in my opinion.
    And yes there are people who can emotionally attach themselves to celebrities for whatever reasons.

    Emotion is not rational. It's emotional.
    I didn't say that actually.

    I said, it's rational to grieve someone more to whom you have been emotionally attached.

    And before we start an interpretation war on the word "rational". I mean it in the sense of "reasonable", i.e. "making sense".

    Thus my statement is:
    It makes sense, that people grieve someone more to whom they have been emotionally attached in comparison to those to whom they haven't.
    FinneousPJ
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 4,841
    @Shandyr I don't think there are degrees of rationality. Either something is rational or it isn't. Hence, it does not make rational sense to ask "how rational" ;)
    Shandaxx
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,448
    I do like that someone created a gofundme page to save Betty White from 2016.

    https://www.gofundme.com/help-protect-betty-white-from-2016
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,433

    I am merely pointing out the fact that people being upset over a celebrity death is irrational. Unless you are a family member or an offline friend to the celebrity who died, that person's death actually has zero impact on your life. As with most things, it is a matter of perception and relative importance. If I tell you that Miriam Ann Savino died on Christmas Eve your reaction will probably be either "who?" or "so what?". Why is her death any less tragic than someone else's? Is she less important simply because she wasn't famous?

    No one is actually vulnerable when a celebrity dies, unless they are a family member or close friend. People only *think* they are vulnerable because they feel *as if* some part of their own life has died when, in reality, it has not. People place far too much importance on celebrities, whether in life or in death. Yes, I enjoyed Prince's music, as well as Mr. Bowie's music/movies, Mr. Rickman's movie performances, etc. but I am not actually going to miss them. To me, their deaths are unfortunate circumstances rather than tragedies.

    I see things differently than most people. Sometimes other people have difficulty understanding my perspective. *shrug*

    On a related topic, this "f*** you 2016" meme is ridiculous. 2016 as a year has been no more disastrous than any other year. What if twice as many celebrities die in 2017? What if 2017 is the year a meteor strikes the planet? Will the meme become "f*** you, too, 2017"?

    There's a bit of irony in saying people have difficulty understanding your perspective in the same breath that you try to marginalize theirs.

    If your mother died and you said you were sad about it, and then somebody came up to you and said "so? Why should I care?" You would rightly be upset.

    The person who walks into a funeral and tells everybody that their pain is something they're choosing to feel, that they're not as vulnerable as they think they are, that their grief is irrational because this person doesn't understand it? That... no. Just don't.
    ShandaxxNimranBelgarathMTH
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 2,907
    edited December 2016
    I'm guessing @Mathsorcerer, based on his name, tends to view things from a rational perspective (in terms of analytics, numbers, etc) and tries to keep emotion out of alot of things. His view on celebrity death is unsurprising if that's the case. I DO think the outpouring a grief we hear about nearly every celebrity that dies on Twitter has gone a bit over the top. It's almost as if you're required to participate. For instance, I like Growing Pains, but I didn't feel any particular overwhelming grief when Alan Thicke died (the only reason it registered at all was because I'd just seen him on a new episode of Fuller House). I have no real connection to Debbie Reynolds, simply the tragedy and just plain bizarre nature of dying almost instantaneously after her daughter.

    Prince and Bowie hit me much harder because of what their music meant in my life and the life of people in my family. I imagine people feel the same about other celebrities if they are involved in art closer to their heart, or, more specifically, their childhood. A movie, an episode of a television show, etc. Honestly, the "celebrity" death that hit me that hardest before this year doesn't even really qualify. She was a contestant on MTVs Real Word/Road Rules challenge years ago, had gotten cancer, and beaten it. A couple years ago I just casually heard that it had come back and then she died. I have no idea why that made me so sad. Maybe the combination of seeing her for so many years on TV, her good looks, the fact that she was so young. There is really no way to predict how it's going to make you feel. But I'm guessing everyone will have specific people who pass in pop culture that will make them grieve more than others. And, again, it's only going to get worse in the years to come. Mostly because WE are getting older as well. This happens to everyone, our current generation is just a bit narcissistic about it because of social media.
    FinneousPJBelgarathMTH
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 1,700
    Dee said:

    If your mother died and you said you were sad about it, and then somebody came up to you and said "so? Why should I care?" You would rightly be upset.

    Actually, no I wouldn't because I already accept the fact that no one other than members of my own family would care if my mother died. When she does, none of you here will know it because it wouldn't become a topic of conversation. Even the people who know me in my offline life probably won't find out, unless my wife tells them. I hope she doesn't because I really don't want anyone's fake sympathy or consolations--I thoroughly dislike that sort of thing.

    @jjstraka34 explained it accurately--I try to keep a detached, non-emotionally-involved view of the world. This helps me stay sane when everyone around me is losing their minds, which seems to happen more often as of late. There are far too many people going around being swept up in whatever hysteria du jour is happening.

    My words were not actually directed at anyone in particular, mind you, and should be taken only as an observation about human behavior in general. I neither demand nor expect anyone to agree with me.
    FinneousPJ
  • AnduinAnduin Member Posts: 5,166
    Perspectives. A few lines on twitter with some one saying they are saddened at the passing of a favourite celebrity is easy. A token gesture. 10 seconds of time spent. Means nothing really. It is not an outpouring of grief. Mere acknowledgement.

    ...

    @Mathsorcerer are you more shocked at the vast numbers involved?

    ...

    On a separate issue. People handle personal bereavement in different ways. Yet in my own observations, fake sympathy or consolation is something rather rare. I'm concerned you live in a detached bubble @Mathsorcerer . Reach out. Ask people if they are okay. You will be surprised at the reciprocation.

    ...

    And yes! Perspectives! You may find my concern fleeting, perhaps unwanted even. I will go to bed and forget the conversation. You may not even get the point of my meandering post. And quickly forget it. However humans are social animals and we need to look after each other. Even in the smallest of ways.
    FinneousPJBelgarathMTHTeflon
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,433
    @Mathsorcerer I sometimes forget how different your perspective is. If it were me, I'd definitely be angry.

    You don't get to decide whether other people's pain is real or not; and just because someone is expressing their pain doesn't mean that's a choice they've made. For most people, pain or grief or offense is something they feel, not something they do. The outward expression of that feeling is not usually voluntary, and it is not a demonstration of weakness to say that you are in pain.

    To that end, if you see someone expressing pain or grief, one of the worst things you can do to that person is tell them you don't think their pain or grief is real, or worth sharing, or rational.

    Not everyone has made the choice--not everyone has the ability to make the choice--to turn off their emotions or to hide or bury their emotions. As a member of a community (and as a moderator yourself), it's your responsibility to acknowledge that fact. I would encourage you to avoid missteps that may exacerbate the pain of others.

    This comment:
    People die all the time. Why should these deaths upset you? Did you know them personally?
    It may not have been intended to be hurtful, but your phrasing suggests a belittling argument against a person who was expressing grief. I won't ask you to imagine how that feels, because I suspect you can do that on your own time. What I will ask you to do is try to see why what you said could have hurt people.

    This is not the first time something like this has happened, and I don't think it's because you're trying to upset people. But that's what you're doing, and you should probably do your part to understand how and why, and take measures to avoid doing so in the future.
    JuliusBorisovBelgarathMTHTeflonAnduin
  • SilverstarSilverstar Member Posts: 2,147
    I feel sorry for anyone born in 2016. 6+ years from now when they start using the internet they'll see all over the place that 2016 was a shit year.

    ... because a bunch of celebrities died?

    I'm kind of with Mathsorcerer on this one. Yeah I liked Carrie Fisher. And I can certainly understand how horrible it must be for her family that her mother died just after. But that somehow makes 2016 a terrible year? Her and a bunch of other celebrities dying? Celebrity worship is getting out of hand.

    2016 had several really good games and movies coming out. To me that eclipses the fact that a bunch of artists and performers I've never met, and probably never would, died. Obviously my opinions and values aren't more correct or worth than anyone else's. But I do believe going "Hey, this bunch of great things happened in 2016!" is a lot better than "2016 sucked. These guys died. F$#% 2016!"
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 2,907
    While I agree that the idea of being angry at a year as a concept is fairly ridiculous, it was a pretty shitty year, for any number of reasons. I think it was fairly average from a gaming and movie perspective as well, though those things hardly eclipse, in my mind, who was lost (from an artistic point of view). David Bowie, Prince, Leonard Cohen, George Michael, Glenn Fry, Harper Lee, George Martin, Garry Shandling, Muhammad Ali, Elie Wiesel, Carrie Fisher AND Kenny Baker, Gene Wilder. Those are just the pop culture names, and only the biggest ones at that. Sports would fill up another whole section, as would political figures. I don't think 2016 was (or will be) worse than any other year. Odds are 2017 will seem the same or worse given the technological times we live in and how things are processed. But it did sort of suck for anyone who has been plugged into any sort of cultural zeitgeist in the last 30 years.
Sign In or Register to comment.