Yeah, and Viconia is the worst of EE npcs. You can't walk anywhere near the upper part of the Government District without her forcing you to listen to religious fanatics shouting. And even if you try to ignore it, you're STILL forced to watch someone burned at the stake. You never see the original NPCs do this, oh wait...
Oh, and Hexxat/Clara does not bother you every time you walk into the copper coronet. I've only ever had to turn her down once.
Don’t get me started on when Mazzy talks to you for walking into her prison cell
You can complete that quest without even unlocking her cell or freeing her.
I didn't even realize Mazzy was there in my first run. It was only later, when I decided she seemed like an interesting NPC, and looked up her location, that I realized the party had walked right past her repeatedly in that prison.
I didn't even realize Mazzy was there in my first run. It was only later, when I decided she seemed like an interesting NPC, and looked up her location, that I realized the party had walked right past her repeatedly in that prison.
Three years later, and someone has raised my thread from the dead!
I still like Hexxat. Her quests are the best. Indiana Jones!
@ThacoBell I've softened on my opinions on everything else too. While I wish Beamdog had just made new content instead of stuffing things into the old content - I am just glad some 15-20 years later we have new BG/Infinity Engine content. I am sad to think now that Siege of Dragonspear was the last thing we will ever get.
I really wish Beamdog would take that next step from an expansion and make a full length game.
Not gonna comment about her questline, but I definitely think from a class perspective she's the best NPC. She's the one NPC where it seems Beamdog spent time thinking about what the base games lacked and what would make them better. As opposed to thinking about what class/character they wanted to build.
I think Rasaad in BG1 is an excellent counter-example to this. He's an extremely weak NPC from a tactical perspective especially in the area where he's recruitable. And he doesn't expand the players options on party loadouts in a way that's fun, imo. If anything, bringing him along at level one is decidedly un-fun. Hexxat gives you a thief option that isn't a mage-thief and it gives you five evil NPC's (along with Dorn). She rounds out the NPC loadout almost perfectly.
@DinoDin Hexxat is the powergamer option, kind of a mess writing wise, but has excellent stats and fills a missing party niche. Rasaad is the roleplayer option, not strong mechanically (in BG1 at least) but has extremely solid writing (I consider him the best written npc in the series).
@DinoDin Hexxat is the powergamer option, kind of a mess writing wise, but has excellent stats and fills a missing party niche. Rasaad is the roleplayer option, not strong mechanically (in BG1 at least) but has extremely solid writing (I consider him the best written npc in the series).
I actually don't think she's that strong of an NPC, power gaming wise. This is despite the high level stats she has. She's absolutely outclassed by Jan or Imoen. Vanilla thief is arguably one of the weakest if not the weakest kit/subclass in the game, especially for BG2.
One of the problems is that in BG2, the main thief skills can be maxed out at a relatively low level. Even Imoen has enough to tackle everything you need -- all the way through ToB. It's unfortunate imo that there weren't a few chests or optional parts of dungeons with some extremely high lock pick or find traps requirements, would have added some depth to the game.
Better backstabs and the ability to add thief skills like effective trap laying and detect illusion is strong. But it pales in comparison to having a second caster. Her backstab potential is nice, but she will not compete with Valygar or another fighter in terms of overall damage output. APR > her obscene strength all the time. Nor is she that effective of a tank, outclassed by virtually every fighter NPC and even some of the divine casters. The weakness of Hexxat is that she forces you to make a significant sacrifice with your overall party composition -- one you don't have to make with someone like Jan for example. Either you're going with one mage, or one divine caster or one fighter.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this is a bad thing. As I said above, she's an excellent strategic addition to the game. And I like that you have to make that tough choice if you want her. I just think people overrate her "power" due to her eye-popping stats.
@DinoDin You're not wrong, but part of my powergame argument for her is the specific niche she fills: evil thief. Evil characters in BG2 tend to be specialists, they don't do everything, but they are the best in the game at what they do. A lot of powergamers LOVE that. And a full-game pure thief just didn't exist pre-EE.
@DinoDin You're not wrong, but part of my powergame argument for her is the specific niche she fills: evil thief. Evil characters in BG2 tend to be specialists, they don't do everything, but they are the best in the game at what they do. A lot of powergamers LOVE that. And a full-game pure thief just didn't exist pre-EE.
Interesting, I hadn't thought of it from that perspective, nor even your general point about evil NPC's. Truly insightful. And yes, she is something of a min/max character.
Evil characters in BG2 tend to be specialists, they don't do everything, but they are the best in the game at what they do. A lot of powergamers LOVE that.
True for Edwin, true for Baeloth. True for Keldorn, although he isn't evil. Some powergamers might also like Korgan and possibly Viconia or Dorn for those reasons. But I've yet to see a powergamer express any enthusiasm about a pure, unkitted thief.. if anything, the powergamer option is to grab her bag of holding and dump her.
Evil characters in BG2 tend to be specialists, they don't do everything, but they are the best in the game at what they do. A lot of powergamers LOVE that.
True for Edwin, true for Baeloth. True for Keldorn, although he isn't evil. Some powergamers might also like Korgan and possibly Viconia or Dorn for those reasons. But I've yet to see a powergamer express any enthusiasm about a pure, unkitted thief.. if anything, the powergamer option is to grab her bag of holding and dump her.
More thieving points, so you can cover most, if not all thieving skills without a backup thief or being gear dependant.
She isn't human, so I think she should have just been a fighter/thief. This would have been a unique option and she would have had all the good fighter stuff to round out her thief-ness.
She isn't human, so I think she should have just been a fighter/thief. This would have been a unique option and she would have had all the good fighter stuff to round out her thief-ness.
There's way better multiclassed thieves in the game though. I would have given her the Shadowdancer kit personally.
@Baptor Beamdog is currently working on SOMETHING. But we don't know what yet. I really hope its a full length isometric rtwp rpg.
I wonder when Beamdog make their own RPG game if they would be able to include their own created characters in the game, so Neera, Wilson, Dorn, Hexxat and Rasaad.
That would be pretty cool if they did. Even if they added just one of them.
@Baptor Beamdog is currently working on SOMETHING. But we don't know what yet. I really hope its a full length isometric rtwp rpg.
I wonder when Beamdog make their own RPG game if they would be able to include their own created characters in the game, so Neera, Wilson, Dorn, Hexxat and Rasaad.
That would be pretty cool if they did. Even if they added just one of them.
Probably not, sadly. I'm sure WotC does the standard, "everything you make for this company belongs to this company" corporate contract.
@Baptor Beamdog is currently working on SOMETHING. But we don't know what yet. I really hope its a full length isometric rtwp rpg.
I wonder when Beamdog make their own RPG game if they would be able to include their own created characters in the game, so Neera, Wilson, Dorn, Hexxat and Rasaad.
That would be pretty cool if they did. Even if they added just one of them.
Probably not, sadly. I'm sure WotC does the standard, "everything you make for this company belongs to this company" corporate contract.
Not only that, but any game Beamdog makes will likely NOT have a license from WotC, which means no Forgotten Realms content. None of these characters would make sense out of that context.
@Baptor Beamdog is currently working on SOMETHING. But we don't know what yet. I really hope its a full length isometric rtwp rpg.
I wonder when Beamdog make their own RPG game if they would be able to include their own created characters in the game, so Neera, Wilson, Dorn, Hexxat and Rasaad.
That would be pretty cool if they did. Even if they added just one of them.
Probably not, sadly. I'm sure WotC does the standard, "everything you make for this company belongs to this company" corporate contract.
Yeah that's a shame. It would be cool if Wizards gave the rights to use them. I'm hoping Beamdog make some kind of rpg game set in the forgotten realms.
@Baptor Beamdog is currently working on SOMETHING. But we don't know what yet. I really hope its a full length isometric rtwp rpg.
I wonder when Beamdog make their own RPG game if they would be able to include their own created characters in the game, so Neera, Wilson, Dorn, Hexxat and Rasaad.
That would be pretty cool if they did. Even if they added just one of them.
Probably not, sadly. I'm sure WotC does the standard, "everything you make for this company belongs to this company" corporate contract.
Not only that, but any game Beamdog makes will likely NOT have a license from WotC, which means no Forgotten Realms content. None of these characters would make sense out of that context.
I hope Beamdog will be able to make their own Forgotten Realms games in the future, not related to Baldur's Gate. Maybe then we could see some of their characthers re-used in said games.
I don't know. After BD lost the license in the SoD "controversy" aftermath, they aren't even allowed to make any new content for EEs anymore. I'm guessing that outside NWN and the EEs, BD's partnership with WotC might be ending.
I don't know. After BD lost the license in the SoD "controversy" aftermath, they aren't even allowed to make any new content for EEs anymore. I'm guessing that outside NWN and the EEs, BD's partnership with WotC might be ending.
It would seem so. A pity, I would have liked more Beamdog future games and future appearances from their characters.
She isn't human, so I think she should have just been a fighter/thief. This would have been a unique option and she would have had all the good fighter stuff to round out her thief-ness.
I actually think making her the assassin kit would have been more fun. Yoshimo already gives you kind of a fighter/thief option, so if they were going to add a thief as they should, I actually like that it's single class. It would have fit with her biography as well, and obviously would work wonders with her insane stats.
If I'm playing an intelligent evil char, I always take Hexxat. Firstly, because unlike, say, Dorn, she can pass for good. My evil casters don't walk around screaming: 'I'm evil!" I tend to keep npcs like Minsc in party just to fly the good alignment flag. Well, that and the idea that being evil can simply mean you are at heart self- serving, not that you thrive on killing innocents or being cruel. Evil and psychotic are not the same thing, even in DnD. You can be good in all but your primary motivation, and be aligned evil.
Secondly, my evil char is seeking power, and Hexxat is a potential avenue towards that end. Godhood great, immortality decent, vampire will do.
Third, she is a pure thief - locks, traps, and pp fast.
Finally, she is my favorite npc.
I will even take her with an undead hunter with a decent int (and all my chars have good int), because 1) she clearly is serving someone who may be a high priority target for me, and 2) she appears to be redeemable - at least in her case, her 'evil' seems to be more curse than true nature.
As for trust, she seems to be far more trustworthy than many of the other evil npcs (who I only add to party if my evil char has something to gain).
Comments
You can complete that quest without even unlocking her cell or freeing her.
I (almost) wholeheartedly agree. Neera really is annoying. Two full cutscenes? PLEASE!!!!
As was I...
Wow that's hilarious!
I still like Hexxat.
@ThacoBell I've softened on my opinions on everything else too. While I wish Beamdog had just made new content instead of stuffing things into the old content - I am just glad some 15-20 years later we have new BG/Infinity Engine content. I am sad to think now that Siege of Dragonspear was the last thing we will ever get.
I really wish Beamdog would take that next step from an expansion and make a full length game.
I think Rasaad in BG1 is an excellent counter-example to this. He's an extremely weak NPC from a tactical perspective especially in the area where he's recruitable. And he doesn't expand the players options on party loadouts in a way that's fun, imo. If anything, bringing him along at level one is decidedly un-fun. Hexxat gives you a thief option that isn't a mage-thief and it gives you five evil NPC's (along with Dorn). She rounds out the NPC loadout almost perfectly.
I actually don't think she's that strong of an NPC, power gaming wise. This is despite the high level stats she has. She's absolutely outclassed by Jan or Imoen. Vanilla thief is arguably one of the weakest if not the weakest kit/subclass in the game, especially for BG2.
One of the problems is that in BG2, the main thief skills can be maxed out at a relatively low level. Even Imoen has enough to tackle everything you need -- all the way through ToB. It's unfortunate imo that there weren't a few chests or optional parts of dungeons with some extremely high lock pick or find traps requirements, would have added some depth to the game.
Better backstabs and the ability to add thief skills like effective trap laying and detect illusion is strong. But it pales in comparison to having a second caster. Her backstab potential is nice, but she will not compete with Valygar or another fighter in terms of overall damage output. APR > her obscene strength all the time. Nor is she that effective of a tank, outclassed by virtually every fighter NPC and even some of the divine casters. The weakness of Hexxat is that she forces you to make a significant sacrifice with your overall party composition -- one you don't have to make with someone like Jan for example. Either you're going with one mage, or one divine caster or one fighter.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this is a bad thing. As I said above, she's an excellent strategic addition to the game. And I like that you have to make that tough choice if you want her. I just think people overrate her "power" due to her eye-popping stats.
Interesting, I hadn't thought of it from that perspective, nor even your general point about evil NPC's. Truly insightful. And yes, she is something of a min/max character.
True for Edwin, true for Baeloth. True for Keldorn, although he isn't evil. Some powergamers might also like Korgan and possibly Viconia or Dorn for those reasons. But I've yet to see a powergamer express any enthusiasm about a pure, unkitted thief.. if anything, the powergamer option is to grab her bag of holding and dump her.
More thieving points, so you can cover most, if not all thieving skills without a backup thief or being gear dependant.
So did Lannfear
There's way better multiclassed thieves in the game though. I would have given her the Shadowdancer kit personally.
Wherever fate takes him. The PC could have ended up in a love square with Aerie and Haer’dalis in the party
I wonder when Beamdog make their own RPG game if they would be able to include their own created characters in the game, so Neera, Wilson, Dorn, Hexxat and Rasaad.
That would be pretty cool if they did. Even if they added just one of them.
Probably not, sadly. I'm sure WotC does the standard, "everything you make for this company belongs to this company" corporate contract.
Not only that, but any game Beamdog makes will likely NOT have a license from WotC, which means no Forgotten Realms content. None of these characters would make sense out of that context.
Yeah that's a shame. It would be cool if Wizards gave the rights to use them. I'm hoping Beamdog make some kind of rpg game set in the forgotten realms.
I hope Beamdog will be able to make their own Forgotten Realms games in the future, not related to Baldur's Gate. Maybe then we could see some of their characthers re-used in said games.
It would seem so. A pity, I would have liked more Beamdog future games and future appearances from their characters.
I actually think making her the assassin kit would have been more fun. Yoshimo already gives you kind of a fighter/thief option, so if they were going to add a thief as they should, I actually like that it's single class. It would have fit with her biography as well, and obviously would work wonders with her insane stats.
Secondly, my evil char is seeking power, and Hexxat is a potential avenue towards that end. Godhood great, immortality decent, vampire will do.
Third, she is a pure thief - locks, traps, and pp fast.
Finally, she is my favorite npc.
I will even take her with an undead hunter with a decent int (and all my chars have good int), because 1) she clearly is serving someone who may be a high priority target for me, and 2) she appears to be redeemable - at least in her case, her 'evil' seems to be more curse than true nature.
As for trust, she seems to be far more trustworthy than many of the other evil npcs (who I only add to party if my evil char has something to gain).
She literally talks about how she eats people, and even specifically targets young women. She's a serial killer.
"I will even take her with an undead hunter with a decent int (and all my chars have good int)"
lol