I've been playing computer games, table top rpgs, and card games for over 25 years. In that time, I have encountered thousands of characters of every stripe imaginable. I can say, without a split second hesitation, that Hexxat is the most poorly written and repugnant character I've ever encountered.
I've been playing computer games, table top rpgs, and card games for over 25 years. In that time, I have encountered thousands of characters of every stripe imaginable. I can say, without a split second hesitation, that Hexxat is the most poorly written and repugnant character I've ever encountered.
Someone hasn't seen Saerileth then.
I'm ambivalent about Hexxat, but it's not as bad as Saerileth.
And I'm excluding the the 13-year old romance 'Romeo and Juliet' "story". Or the 'ye olde butchered Englisheth'.
It's just straight up BAD.
The very concept is ridiculous. Tyr, the God of Justice, has sent his Chosen Paladin (ignoring she's 13), to aid you, the demigod son of the God of Murder?
There are a great many details I could go on about, but they have been hashed out many times by many people.
Not meaning to harp on the Saerileth hate-train, but it has to be mentioned whenever someone says "XYZ is the most poorly written" character "ever".
Imoen can do everything Hexxat can do except traps. Even her backstab can be made more useful because she has access to Mislead, Polymorph Self and Shapechange.
Jan can do all this too plus traps and UAI. He outclasses Hexxat completely in every category.
With the exception of Nalia, who has so few Thief levels she needs gear and potions to function as one, Hexxat is the weakest Thief available (not counting Yoshimo since he isn't permanent). For a character the narrative treats as an über badass, this is pretty jarring.
You don't even have to discount Yoshimo since he's actually kind of a badass. His stats are about as good as Hexxat's. He gets the same bonus from INT/Wis (i.e. "none"). Hexxat's charisma advantage is completely negated by the existence of the Ring of Human Influence. The only thing he loses out on with 18 Dex instead of 20 is one point of ranged THACO and some thief skills, which are hardly in short supply since both characters are pureclass thieves.
So it basically comes down to Hexxat's 20 strength vs. his 16 constitution, and since Str is easier to fix than Con, (and Hexxat only has that advantage at night), it's pretty close either way. Plus, Yoshimo's stats are high enough to dual-class, which would be awesome if he actually stuck around.
After that, it's Yoshi's special traps vs. Hexxat's Domination and on-demand cannon fodder. Give me the special traps every time. Bounty Hunters are rad.
I've been playing computer games, table top rpgs, and card games for over 25 years. In that time, I have encountered thousands of characters of every stripe imaginable. I can say, without a split second hesitation, that Hexxat is the most poorly written and repugnant character I've ever encountered.
Look if you wanna hate Hexxat more power to you, but if you've been tabletop gaming for 25 years and haven't run into a worse character than Hexxat, you've lived a very sheltered life indeed. Back when I was tabletop gaming I nearly died from cringe at some of the outlandish and idiotic character ideas some people came to the table with and proceeded to role-play...poorly. Nothing more treacherous than an "open game" at your local gaming or comic book store. Oh the people you'll meet.
I had a Drizzt wannabe (rogue so that he could pretend he wasn't) actually try to outright murder one of my PC's for managing to be much more useful and praiseworthy in a fight. I wish I was joking about that.
And Saerileth is 15. Not that it still makes much difference. And I want to say it was Lathander that sent her even though it's Tyr that she's technically related to but I may be remembering that wrong or mixing something up. it's been way too long. But she was pushy. Very Mary Sue. Supposedly innocent and Righteous but most of the time struck me as anything but... And they did a romance for her on top of it. I made the mistake of playing her once back in the day for the full experience just to see what people were saying about her and making my own mind up way back in the day.
[...] but if you've been tabletop gaming for 25 years and haven't run into a worse character than Hexxat, you've lived a very sheltered life indeed. Back when I was tabletop gaming I nearly died from cringe at some of the outlandish and idiotic character ideas some people came to the table with and proceeded to role-play...poorly. Nothing more treacherous than an "open game" at your local gaming or comic book store. Oh the people you'll meet.
First, I want to point out that I honest-to-FSM thought the first post in this thread was being sarcastic. Saying Hexxat "is as cool, unique, and interesting as the NPCs from PLANESCAPE: TORMENT" makes my top-20 list of most bizarre things I have ever read.
I stand by my earlier statement. I can't think of a single character that is worse. In any game. Ever. This is just a vile, vile character. I mean, she is, unbelievably, even worse than Dorn.
Let's start with that introduction dialogue in the Copper Coronet. (Let me channel my inner Chandler Bing.) Could it BE any more incoherent?
Then Beamdog decides they have been too subtle with the characters up to this point. You know, because the stoic monk, capricious wild mage, and disgustingly evil blackguard weren't extreme archetypes at all *eye roll*. So let's throw in a lesbian vampire! And now, you have a vampire in your party. Why not recruit a mind flayer and beholder while you're at it and chat it up with Prelate Wessalen at the Order's headquarters. I mean, a vampire, COME ON!
Edwin, Viconia, Korgan... THESE are how evil characters should be done. They're pricks, but can still somewhat function within a party and society. Unlike Hexxat.
Her portrait is terrible and doesn't fit the BG2 style.
Her mechanics are annoying with that stupid AF cloak.
Did I mention she a dumb*** vampire that has no business in an adventuring party?!
And now, you have a vampire in your party. Why not recruit a mind flayer and beholder while you're at it and chat it up with Prelate Wessalen at the Order's headquarters. I mean, a vampire, COME ON!
I know of at least 4 Vampire NPCs (counting Hexxat) and a mindflayer NPC. Out of some 160 odd I've noted. Not aware of any beholder mod. I thought someone made one once, but if so it's not had enough attention brought to it.
Edwin, Viconia, Korgan... THESE are how evil characters should be done. They're pricks, but can still somewhat function within a party and society. Unlike Hexxat.
And yet Tiax is a thing. And Xzar for that matter. Also playable (in both games if one counts mod NPCs too). There are enough insane or nearly insane Evil NPCs that, if I was really in a party with them, I wouldn't be able to sleep for fear they'd cut my throat in a moment of weakness (of their sanity and me for being asleep).
Her portrait is terrible and doesn't fit the BG2 style.
While I agree and personally changed it to an altered Dynaheir pic, I believe this is pretty nitpick. I've changed ALL the portraits. Well, mostly. Speaking of just vanilla and EE, of 22 NPCs, I change all but 6 (Dorn, Jan, Rasaad, Valygar, Yoshimo, and Wilson).
@proghead3 Everything about your last comment screams insane bias. The part about her being gay and a vampire is pretty incidential, actually, and nothing she does or say plays into the usual "lesbian vampire" stereotype. (What even is the stereotype about that? Usually they are just incredibly fanservicy, which she clearly isn't. Because you know, the game engine doesn't allow for strip teases and the usual crap.) She simply likes girls. Unless of course you have a problem with that specifically.
I mean, Hexxat is hardly the "best" character in the game and there are some problems with her writing. But there is a difference between "not very good" and "literally the worst".
And I mean, I absolutely hate vampires in fiction, because all they usually do is appeal to some weird pseudo-goth emo fantasies that I can't stand. And Hexxat doesn't utilise these tropes, which I think is mostly thanks to her neither being reduced to her sexuality nor being a pseudo-goth emo. She is a vampire only in mechanical terms, really. Which is nice.
Also, this "debate" reminds me that I am still waiting for Amazon to deliver Done To Death to me, which I ordered half a year ago ... *groans for ever*
I think it's very interresting that some ppl believe all non-pure-über evil characters should kill Hexxat on the spot, and that even the evil ones should as well for some. The latter ones because we can't trust her not to eat us in the sleep. I mean, come on.. CHARNAME is a bhaal spawn and hardly fears anyone, and if you RP that you DO fear NPCs then cut Korgan's, Dorn's and Edwin's throats in their sleep ASAP since those buggers will stab you in the back the first chance they get. Arguing that Hexxat somehow are less trustworthy than anyone else of those is biased, methinks.
By the start of BG2 Charname can have inherent 20 STR, 20 DEX, 20 CON, 18-19 INT, up to 21 WIS and 19 CHA. Add to that a score of inherent bhaal spawn powers like DUHM, Horror, heal. Add to that all the best magical equipment Athkatla has to offer. Add to that you are probably higher level than her. Add to that you probably have at least a couple of really trusted companions watching your back. Add to that that maybe you are elf and never really sleep, or are a mage and spend most nights prepairing and memorizing your spells, so you can't really be attacked in your sleep. No matter what CHARNAME I am playing, it would take a bucketload of RP reasons to be afraid of anything less than a lich, dragon or high level mage and I would sure as hell not be afraid of a vampire thief that has actually never done anything against charname specifically.
I do wish they had made her an assassin or shadowdancer though, just because it would have made her more interesting to use. I eekeeper her to whatever I like though anyway, so it matters little in the end.
Edit: Btw, @proghead3, you do what you want of course, but you won't make many friends with that tone.
@proghead3 Everything about your last comment screams insane bias. The part about her being gay and a vampire is pretty incidential, actually, and nothing she does or say plays into the usual "lesbian vampire" stereotype. (What even is the stereotype about that? Usually they are just incredibly fanservicy, which she clearly isn't. Because you know, the game engine doesn't allow for strip teases and the usual crap.) She simply likes girls. Unless of course you have a problem with that specifically.
Answer the points raised don't insinuate that somebody raising points has a hidden agenda or is lacking in some kind of moral fiber. "You have a different opinion therefore there must be something wrong with you"
What is it with the internet that discussions always have to end up like this?
@proghead3 Everything about your last comment screams insane bias. The part about her being gay and a vampire is pretty incidential, actually, and nothing she does or say plays into the usual "lesbian vampire" stereotype.
LOL I work in SF, I have no problem with her being gay. But lez-be-honest, she's a gay character because Beamdog can't write and needed to make her as different as possible. That is why I mention it. Despite your sincere desire to combat some homophobe, I happen to be a quite tolerant person. Sorry.
1 One of the worst criticisms, or more accurately complaints about BG2 was the lack of evil thief options amongst the NPCs. Yoshimo has limits, Jan is CN and seems more good than evil (if you haven't gone through his personal quest, do), and Imoen will stick by you but is unavailable for a while. Plus, with all the thief options in BG1, thieves were not always a popular option there, so fewer CHARNAMEs would have been thieves. Hexxat filled that gap. (Phrasing!)
2) The writing isn't great, but it's not like it's as bad as other games have given us. It also was a bit of a twist, giving us a chance to ally with a vampire against Bodhi, which was unexpected.
3) Hexxat is immune to level drain. In BG2, this is not insignificant.
4) BG2 originally had only one romance for female PCs, and that was Anomen. More were planned -- Valygar and possibly Haired Alice -- but only one was ready for production when the gold master was due. And what's more, it was the worst one, based on the opinions I saw back in the day. Anomen is a useful character and his development is interesting, but he is not what I would describe as "appealing". Hexxat provided another option and one that, again, was at least not expected.
5) You can get a free Bag of Holding early in the game, who cool is that?
6) It's not always about power gaming, but about interesting sometimes. Some of my favorite characters in the series are limited or underpowered or lacking in some way: Branwen, Mazzy, Alora, Aerie, etc. And even the strongest and most popular characters have limits. While powergamers like Edwin, he's also a glass cannon. Keldorn and Viconia need equipment. So Hexxat being a straight thief doesn't bother me.
Of course, you may disagree, but that's cool. It's part of what makes the game interesting.
TBH my main complaint with Hexxat is the quests are a bit buggy and EXTREMELY tough depending on party make-up and willingness to use some cheese.
I mean, sure, it's a bit of a stretch to recruit her for some parties when she sinks her fangs into Clara's neck, but, err, don't recruit her if it's an issue
As for having a Vampire in the party then it's a bit rich for the Bastard child of the God of Murder to get all picky when there's an Evil Drow cleric, Power hungry Evil red Wizard, Evil dwarf who gloats about killing his previous companions (although sounds like they deserved it), Blackguard who flat out strolls into a WEDDING to butcher someone...Plus you're effectively employed by either the Shadow Thieves or Bodhi, both distinctly dubious organisations...and don't get me started on the fact that even a Good Protagonist will likely have killed 50+ people by the point they free Hexxat haha.
Honestly i do not usually keep her around, but that is because i often play solo and when i do not then a significant number of my characters have thief dual or multi class and in truth there's absolutely zero point in having 2 thieves in a party. When doing her quests though it is handy for her to effectively be unkillable, i like not having to babysit her and sometimes even use her as a deliberate sacrifice to buy me some time
I do wish they had made her an assassin or shadowdancer though, just because it would have made her more interesting to use. I eekeeper her to whatever I like though anyway, so it matters little in the end.
By far my biggest complaint. Writing I can live with. Underpowered I can live with. Boring character class means you're never coming along.
Seems like such a waste for Beamdog to introduce a brand new thief kit and a brand new thief and somehow not make the thief that thief kit despite it being thematically appropriate.
I think it's very interresting that some ppl believe all non-pure-über evil characters should kill Hexxat on the spot, and that even the evil ones should as well for some. The latter ones because we can't trust her not to eat us in the sleep. I mean, come on.. CHARNAME is a bhaal spawn and hardly fears anyone, and if you RP that you DO fear NPCs then cut Korgan's, Dorn's and Edwin's throats in their sleep ASAP since those buggers will stab you in the back the first chance they get.
Well, are we talking about trust, or about fear? You don't need to be afraid of Hexxat, to consider her as someone less trustworthy that other evil NPCs. Edwin, for instance, does not feel primal urge to drink your warm, warm blood. He doesn't need to kill to live. That alone makes him much more reasonable choice than Hexxat - they are both untrustworthy, repulsive, selfish beings, but one of them physically needs to kill people. It's a choice between flu and black death. Even if that is not enough, comparing how we recruit evil NPCs shows why nobody sane* should recruit Hexxat. She tricks us into exploring dangerous dungeon to rescue her, lying about treasure, and kills person who travelled with us and fought with us - even if for a short time. Meanwhile Korgan offers as a drink in tavern and asks for help. Sure' he lies, but he doesn't manipulate us to go to abandoned mine, promising riches, and after we kill all it's inhabitants goes "oh, 'twas a prank! I just wanted you to go there to help. No richies. So, can I join?". The same can be said about Edwin. I mean, you can't argue that Hexxat couldn't care less about our lives - she has no problem with sending us to potential death for her gain... and Korgan, even if he lies about his quest, he joins to fight on around side and risks death and injury. So, from the story point of view, Hexxat should abandon us the moment our health goes down. Or in Spellhold. Or when she finds out there is vampires guild that can help her.
Arguing that Hexxat somehow are less trustworthy than anyone else of those is biased, methinks.
Arguing that Hexxat somehow is as trustworthy as anyone else of those is biased, I think. Sigh.
*...if we were to treat Baldur's Gate 100% serious. Which we shouldn't . It's fun, upbeat heroic adventure, not grim psychological drama. It's okay for NPCs to be goofy like Tiax or Ajantis, or edgy like Hexxat.
6) It's not always about power gaming, but about interesting sometimes. Some of my favorite characters in the series are limited or underpowered or lacking in some way: Branwen, Mazzy, Alora, Aerie, etc. And even the strongest and most popular characters have limits. While powergamers like Edwin, he's also a glass cannon. Keldorn and Viconia need equipment. So Hexxat being a straight thief doesn't bother me.
Branwen and Mazzy are underpowered or lacking in some way?
Personally, I don't think Hexxats writing is sub-par so much as it gets under my skin. She screams "Mary Sue".
She's a pureclass, kitless thief, though, which is a major Mary Sue fail.
UAI and Spike Trap. Even ignoring those, pureclass thieves are incredibly strong and usefull.
Imoen can do everything Hexxat can do except traps. Even her backstab can be made more useful because she has access to Mislead, Polymorph Self and Shapechange.
Jan can do all this too plus traps and UAI. He outclasses Hexxat completely in every category.
With the exception of Nalia, who has so few Thief levels she needs gear and potions to function as one, Hexxat is the weakest Thief available (not counting Yoshimo since he isn't permanent). For a character the narrative treats as an über badass, this is pretty jarring.
What does have to do with the current discussion? Hexxat is written as a Mary Sue, other characters abilities have no effect on that.
I was going to say something similar. I have used Branwen in about half or more of my runs through BG and have always found her useful, and less annoying than Jaheira. Plus I don't have to nursemaid Khalid. Plus I love rescuing her from being petrified
What does have to do with the current discussion? Hexxat is written as a Mary Sue, other characters abilities have no effect on that.
You're saying she's powerful in gameplay, I disagree with that. Nothing more.
Yeah, psh, 20 strength back stabs? Trash. That dex bonus to range? Lame. UAI? Spike Trap? Worst HLAs in the game. She is a very strong character mechanically, the existence of other thieves or stronger characters does not make this less true.
Branwen and Mazzy are underpowered or lacking in some way?
I really like Branwen, but can you say she is better than any other divine caster in BG1? I mean, you can get her early, for the cost of a scroll, but would you rate her above Viconia and her MR? Jaheira and Yeslick give you more frontline power at the cost (in BG1) of one level of spellcasting. Her strength is ... not great, so she needs one of the ankheg armors if you want her up front. Her special ability is not too useful once you get a magic hammer or mace.
She's not bad, mind you, but she's not overpowered. None of the divine casters in BG1 are, except possibly Quayle, but then you have to deal with Quayle.
Branwen is still my default cleric, but I understand someone making another choice.
As for Mazzy, it's funny how things have changed over hecyears. If you look on other fora from 12+ years ago, Mazzy was considered a waste: a low strength fighter with tons of proficiency up an underpowered weapon. Now she's considered one of the better choices, particularly with the Gesen or Tiguan bows. She still requires some equipment (who doesn't?) but I still consider her a bit below Anomen (with his cleric buffs) and Korgan (with his inherent rage and strength) but above Keldorn as a front liner. If I play a frontliner I generally choose Mazzy, but if not, I tend to choose a Valygar for his stealth. But there is a reason they gave her special abilities, because she needed that little bit extra.
Personally, I think she's great, but her archery is her best feature, and that gets less important later in the game.
What does have to do with the current discussion? Hexxat is written as a Mary Sue, other characters abilities have no effect on that.
You're saying she's powerful in gameplay, I disagree with that. Nothing more.
Yeah, psh, 20 strength back stabs? Trash. That dex bonus to range? Lame. UAI? Spike Trap? Worst HLAs in the game. She is a very strong character mechanically, the existence of other thieves or stronger characters does not make this less true.
The measure of power, especially when it applies to someone with accusations of being a Mary Sue, is all about comparison.
BG2 evil NPCs are designed to excel at their specialty. They overshadow good and neutral ones in one area, at least until ToB decided to mess things up with its epic levels. Hexxat is outclassed by other thieves right out of the gate. Her advantages are either conditional (ability scores), easily reproduced with spells (domination) or near useless (her other 1x/day abilities).
Being a Mary Sue in gameplay would mean she is so powerful than not taking her would cripple you. On the contrary, because they are mutually exclusive and you don't really need two full thieves anyways, by taking Hexxat you lose Jan who is far, far, more powerful mechanically. From a pure powergaming perspective, you are effectively crippling yourself by taking Hexxat along.
Her abilities simply don't match her general Mary Sue-ness. I'm not saying it's a bad thing; on the contrary, she's enough of a Sue already and the only evil Thief had to be unkitted and single class since the point was to allow the formation of an all-evil party without the PC being a thief. But calling her "powerful" is, well, kind of outrageous.
Anyways the real issue was to make her a vampire. We wouldn't even have this conversation about Mary Sues were she just a thief.
Is there a proper explanation later on for why she has so much revulsion for her vampire condition? Because from what I can understand even unwilling victims of vampirism in D&D seem to revel in their undead condition, usually turning evil straight away. So unless Hexxat is a different breed of vampire for whatever reason, that alone made her a flawed character for me... A special snowflake and some of the banters and interjections I had seemed to match that(like Bodhi knowing her? what the hell?)
Is there a proper explanation later on for why she has so much revulsion for her vampire condition? Because from what I can understand even unwilling victims of vampirism in D&D seem to revel in their undead condition, usually turning evil straight away. So unless Hexxat is a different breed of vampire for whatever reason, that alone made her a flawed character for me... A special snowflake and some of the banters and interjections I had seemed to match that(like Bodhi knowing her? what the hell?)
Odd, I had her in my party when we faced Bodhi and she never mentioned knowing Hexxat. Oh well. The issue with vampirism is unfortunately a consequence of old school vampirism and new school vampirism.
If you go back and read the original Dracula the Count is in no way appealing or alluring. He is a vile monster through and through. Lucy is a nice girl until she is murdered and turned by the Count, after which she becomes a murdering monster as well (she feasts on babies because she's not ready to hunt adults!). Van Helsing explains midway through Lucy's transformation that she's turning into something that is no longer Lucy.
That is a key difference from modern vampires. Over the decades that passed vampires became less monsters and more dark heroes or pitiable villains. Original D&D rules kept the idea that turning into a vampire means becoming a monster, so alignment moves immediately to Chaotic Evil and that character is no more. But times have changed, and well....Twilight. Now Hexxat is no Edward, she murders and feeds and is merciless for the most part - but she knows that her craving for blood, her aversion to the sun, and that thirst inside that never, ever ends is a CURSE inflicted upon her forcibly by another - and she hates it. Now you're right, by the old world and by classic D&D rules, that shouldn't happen at all. The transformation should've made her feel that vampirism is as natural as anything else and that mortals are mere cattle - but the writers wanted to make a NPC vampire and that was the only way it could be done. In that respect yes, she is a special snowflake.
However I reject the idea that they are really betraying the genre because almost everyone I know has made an exception to the idea that all vampires are monsters in some way at some point. Even WOTC recently released a vampire race in Innistrad that can be any alignment and isn't necessarily evil. Oddly, if you compare that version of the vampire to Hexxat, they are oddly similar.
But if you're a purist, and I totally respect that, I can see why you'd object to Hexxat on the grounds that any vampire would be unrepentantly evil, bloodthirsty, and proud of it.
Comments
I'm ambivalent about Hexxat, but it's not as bad as Saerileth.
And I'm excluding the the 13-year old romance 'Romeo and Juliet' "story". Or the 'ye olde butchered Englisheth'.
It's just straight up BAD.
The very concept is ridiculous. Tyr, the God of Justice, has sent his Chosen Paladin (ignoring she's 13), to aid you, the demigod son of the God of Murder?
There are a great many details I could go on about, but they have been hashed out many times by many people.
Not meaning to harp on the Saerileth hate-train, but it has to be mentioned whenever someone says "XYZ is the most poorly written" character "ever".
So it basically comes down to Hexxat's 20 strength vs. his 16 constitution, and since Str is easier to fix than Con, (and Hexxat only has that advantage at night), it's pretty close either way. Plus, Yoshimo's stats are high enough to dual-class, which would be awesome if he actually stuck around.
After that, it's Yoshi's special traps vs. Hexxat's Domination and on-demand cannon fodder. Give me the special traps every time. Bounty Hunters are rad.
And Saerileth is 15. Not that it still makes much difference. And I want to say it was Lathander that sent her even though it's Tyr that she's technically related to but I may be remembering that wrong or mixing something up. it's been way too long. But she was pushy. Very Mary Sue. Supposedly innocent and Righteous but most of the time struck me as anything but... And they did a romance for her on top of it. I made the mistake of playing her once back in the day for the full experience just to see what people were saying about her and making my own mind up way back in the day.
I stand by my earlier statement. I can't think of a single character that is worse. In any game. Ever. This is just a vile, vile character. I mean, she is, unbelievably, even worse than Dorn.
Let's start with that introduction dialogue in the Copper Coronet. (Let me channel my inner Chandler Bing.) Could it BE any more incoherent?
Then Beamdog decides they have been too subtle with the characters up to this point. You know, because the stoic monk, capricious wild mage, and disgustingly evil blackguard weren't extreme archetypes at all *eye roll*. So let's throw in a lesbian vampire! And now, you have a vampire in your party. Why not recruit a mind flayer and beholder while you're at it and chat it up with Prelate Wessalen at the Order's headquarters. I mean, a vampire, COME ON!
Edwin, Viconia, Korgan... THESE are how evil characters should be done. They're pricks, but can still somewhat function within a party and society. Unlike Hexxat.
Her portrait is terrible and doesn't fit the BG2 style.
Her mechanics are annoying with that stupid AF cloak.
Did I mention she a dumb*** vampire that has no business in an adventuring party?!
****ing terrible, filthy, trashy, vile, disgusting, appalling, repugnant horse****.
Maybe when I'm not in such a good mood, I'll tell you how I really feel about her.
Everything about your last comment screams insane bias.
The part about her being gay and a vampire is pretty incidential, actually, and nothing she does or say plays into the usual "lesbian vampire" stereotype. (What even is the stereotype about that? Usually they are just incredibly fanservicy, which she clearly isn't. Because you know, the game engine doesn't allow for strip teases and the usual crap.) She simply likes girls. Unless of course you have a problem with that specifically.
@Quickblade
Thank you.
And I am neither female, homosexual, or homophobic. Or a vampire.
But there is a difference between "not very good" and "literally the worst".
And I mean, I absolutely hate vampires in fiction, because all they usually do is appeal to some weird pseudo-goth emo fantasies that I can't stand. And Hexxat doesn't utilise these tropes, which I think is mostly thanks to her neither being reduced to her sexuality nor being a pseudo-goth emo. She is a vampire only in mechanical terms, really. Which is nice.
Also, this "debate" reminds me that I am still waiting for Amazon to deliver Done To Death to me, which I ordered half a year ago ... *groans for ever* Neither of these labels are a requirement, only common sense is :P
By the start of BG2 Charname can have inherent 20 STR, 20 DEX, 20 CON, 18-19 INT, up to 21 WIS and 19 CHA.
Add to that a score of inherent bhaal spawn powers like DUHM, Horror, heal.
Add to that all the best magical equipment Athkatla has to offer.
Add to that you are probably higher level than her.
Add to that you probably have at least a couple of really trusted companions watching your back.
Add to that that maybe you are elf and never really sleep, or are a mage and spend most nights prepairing and memorizing your spells, so you can't really be attacked in your sleep.
No matter what CHARNAME I am playing, it would take a bucketload of RP reasons to be afraid of anything less than a lich, dragon or high level mage and I would sure as hell not be afraid of a vampire thief that has actually never done anything against charname specifically.
I do wish they had made her an assassin or shadowdancer though, just because it would have made her more interesting to use. I eekeeper her to whatever I like though anyway, so it matters little in the end.
Edit: Btw, @proghead3, you do what you want of course, but you won't make many friends with that tone.
Answer the points raised don't insinuate that somebody raising points has a hidden agenda or is lacking in some kind of moral fiber.
"You have a different opinion therefore there must be something wrong with you"
What is it with the internet that discussions always have to end up like this?
By the way, your post screams virtual signaling.
1 One of the worst criticisms, or more accurately complaints about BG2 was the lack of evil thief options amongst the NPCs. Yoshimo has limits, Jan is CN and seems more good than evil (if you haven't gone through his personal quest, do), and Imoen will stick by you but is unavailable for a while. Plus, with all the thief options in BG1, thieves were not always a popular option there, so fewer CHARNAMEs would have been thieves. Hexxat filled that gap. (Phrasing!)
2) The writing isn't great, but it's not like it's as bad as other games have given us. It also was a bit of a twist, giving us a chance to ally with a vampire against Bodhi, which was unexpected.
3) Hexxat is immune to level drain. In BG2, this is not insignificant.
4) BG2 originally had only one romance for female PCs, and that was Anomen. More were planned -- Valygar and possibly Haired Alice -- but only one was ready for production when the gold master was due. And what's more, it was the worst one, based on the opinions I saw back in the day. Anomen is a useful character and his development is interesting, but he is not what I would describe as "appealing". Hexxat provided another option and one that, again, was at least not expected.
5) You can get a free Bag of Holding early in the game, who cool is that?
6) It's not always about power gaming, but about interesting sometimes. Some of my favorite characters in the series are limited or underpowered or lacking in some way: Branwen, Mazzy, Alora, Aerie, etc. And even the strongest and most popular characters have limits. While powergamers like Edwin, he's also a glass cannon. Keldorn and Viconia need equipment. So Hexxat being a straight thief doesn't bother me.
Of course, you may disagree, but that's cool. It's part of what makes the game interesting.
I mean, sure, it's a bit of a stretch to recruit her for some parties when she sinks her fangs into Clara's neck, but, err, don't recruit her if it's an issue
As for having a Vampire in the party then it's a bit rich for the Bastard child of the God of Murder to get all picky when there's an Evil Drow cleric, Power hungry Evil red Wizard, Evil dwarf who gloats about killing his previous companions (although sounds like they deserved it), Blackguard who flat out strolls into a WEDDING to butcher someone...Plus you're effectively employed by either the Shadow Thieves or Bodhi, both distinctly dubious organisations...and don't get me started on the fact that even a Good Protagonist will likely have killed 50+ people by the point they free Hexxat haha.
Honestly i do not usually keep her around, but that is because i often play solo and when i do not then a significant number of my characters have thief dual or multi class and in truth there's absolutely zero point in having 2 thieves in a party. When doing her quests though it is handy for her to effectively be unkillable, i like not having to babysit her and sometimes even use her as a deliberate sacrifice to buy me some time
Seems like such a waste for Beamdog to introduce a brand new thief kit and a brand new thief and somehow not make the thief that thief kit despite it being thematically appropriate.
Well, are we talking about trust, or about fear? You don't need to be afraid of Hexxat, to consider her as someone less trustworthy that other evil NPCs. Edwin, for instance, does not feel primal urge to drink your warm, warm blood. He doesn't need to kill to live. That alone makes him much more reasonable choice than Hexxat - they are both untrustworthy, repulsive, selfish beings, but one of them physically needs to kill people. It's a choice between flu and black death.
Even if that is not enough, comparing how we recruit evil NPCs shows why nobody sane* should recruit Hexxat. She tricks us into exploring dangerous dungeon to rescue her, lying about treasure, and kills person who travelled with us and fought with us - even if for a short time. Meanwhile Korgan offers as a drink in tavern and asks for help. Sure' he lies, but he doesn't manipulate us to go to abandoned mine, promising riches, and after we kill all it's inhabitants goes "oh, 'twas a prank! I just wanted you to go there to help. No richies. So, can I join?". The same can be said about Edwin. I mean, you can't argue that Hexxat couldn't care less about our lives - she has no problem with sending us to potential death for her gain... and Korgan, even if he lies about his quest, he joins to fight on around side and risks death and injury.
So, from the story point of view, Hexxat should abandon us the moment our health goes down. Or in Spellhold. Or when she finds out there is vampires guild that can help her.
Arguing that Hexxat somehow is as trustworthy as anyone else of those is biased, I think.
Sigh.
*...if we were to treat Baldur's Gate 100% serious. Which we shouldn't
She's not bad, mind you, but she's not overpowered. None of the divine casters in BG1 are, except possibly Quayle, but then you have to deal with Quayle.
Branwen is still my default cleric, but I understand someone making another choice.
As for Mazzy, it's funny how things have changed over hecyears. If you look on other fora from 12+ years ago, Mazzy was considered a waste: a low strength fighter with tons of proficiency up an underpowered weapon. Now she's considered one of the better choices, particularly with the Gesen or Tiguan bows. She still requires some equipment (who doesn't?) but I still consider her a bit below Anomen (with his cleric buffs) and Korgan (with his inherent rage and strength) but above Keldorn as a front liner. If I play a frontliner I generally choose Mazzy, but if not, I tend to choose a Valygar for his stealth. But there is a reason they gave her special abilities, because she needed that little bit extra.
Personally, I think she's great, but her archery is her best feature, and that gets less important later in the game.
BG2 evil NPCs are designed to excel at their specialty. They overshadow good and neutral ones in one area, at least until ToB decided to mess things up with its epic levels. Hexxat is outclassed by other thieves right out of the gate. Her advantages are either conditional (ability scores), easily reproduced with spells (domination) or near useless (her other 1x/day abilities).
Being a Mary Sue in gameplay would mean she is so powerful than not taking her would cripple you. On the contrary, because they are mutually exclusive and you don't really need two full thieves anyways, by taking Hexxat you lose Jan who is far, far, more powerful mechanically. From a pure powergaming perspective, you are effectively crippling yourself by taking Hexxat along.
Her abilities simply don't match her general Mary Sue-ness. I'm not saying it's a bad thing; on the contrary, she's enough of a Sue already and the only evil Thief had to be unkitted and single class since the point was to allow the formation of an all-evil party without the PC being a thief. But calling her "powerful" is, well, kind of outrageous.
Anyways the real issue was to make her a vampire. We wouldn't even have this conversation about Mary Sues were she just a thief.
If you go back and read the original Dracula the Count is in no way appealing or alluring. He is a vile monster through and through. Lucy is a nice girl until she is murdered and turned by the Count, after which she becomes a murdering monster as well (she feasts on babies because she's not ready to hunt adults!). Van Helsing explains midway through Lucy's transformation that she's turning into something that is no longer Lucy.
That is a key difference from modern vampires. Over the decades that passed vampires became less monsters and more dark heroes or pitiable villains. Original D&D rules kept the idea that turning into a vampire means becoming a monster, so alignment moves immediately to Chaotic Evil and that character is no more. But times have changed, and well....Twilight. Now Hexxat is no Edward, she murders and feeds and is merciless for the most part - but she knows that her craving for blood, her aversion to the sun, and that thirst inside that never, ever ends is a CURSE inflicted upon her forcibly by another - and she hates it. Now you're right, by the old world and by classic D&D rules, that shouldn't happen at all. The transformation should've made her feel that vampirism is as natural as anything else and that mortals are mere cattle - but the writers wanted to make a NPC vampire and that was the only way it could be done. In that respect yes, she is a special snowflake.
However I reject the idea that they are really betraying the genre because almost everyone I know has made an exception to the idea that all vampires are monsters in some way at some point. Even WOTC recently released a vampire race in Innistrad that can be any alignment and isn't necessarily evil. Oddly, if you compare that version of the vampire to Hexxat, they are oddly similar.
But if you're a purist, and I totally respect that, I can see why you'd object to Hexxat on the grounds that any vampire would be unrepentantly evil, bloodthirsty, and proud of it.