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Why do peoople like Icewind Dale 2 so much?

so somewhat recently I've being seeing more and more talk about IWD 2 and the fact that beamdog was trying to make an EE for it but couldn't because they didn't have the assets for it and all that good jazz, and people were bummed out and all that yadda, but is there really enough people out there that like this game to make an EE for it?

in my personal opinion I found IWD 2 to be an incredibly weak link in the isometric black isle RPG game line up, in fact, I didn't like it at all, I've never found IWD 2 to be fun ever, the game felt very unpolished and broken, and I felt more "ugh" than "wow this is great" when playing it, playing IWD 2 felt more like a chore than an enjoyable experience for me at least

so I'm wondering, who out there actually liked this game and why?

FardragonBelgarathMTHkillerrabbitmlnevesehelmo1977
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Comments

  • PaulaMigratePaulaMigrate Member Posts: 1,201
    edited August 2017
    A pretty good question.
    I never liked it.
    It felt like everything found in the vaults after having done BG series and IWD + How was scrapped out, and put into one linear endless plot for you to trudge along. The few highlights were connected by endless silly riddles and quests in areas that had absolutely nothing to do with the main plot.
    It may have been a bit better in a more BG like setting with a main plot and some optional side quests instead of forcing you to do it all. Some side quests took so long and were so remote from the story that one almost forgot what the issue was after all.
    The lack of interacting NPCs or interesting dialogues made it worse. New animations, monsters or spells are no compensation for the absolute absence of any content.

    Count me among those who are clearly not waiting for an EE remake of it. It's for completists only.

    The main plot might have done for a nice little side quest for another game. (Maybe IWD-in-EET?).

    If I look at @semiticgod 's list just above, yes that's a nice list of gimmicks, but they have no purpose and no foundation. Somebody developped them, just like they had those area graphics and other elements and then they threw it all together and stirred and hoped it would look like a game. But it's just leftovers glued together.

    sarevok57StummvonBordwehr
  • ArtonaArtona Member Posts: 961
    I like IWD2 because it has those cool ice ankhegs. I don't remember how they are called, but you know what I mean. They are awesome.
    ;)

    ThacoBellsemiticgodAerakarBalrog99
  • kanisathakanisatha Member Posts: 315
    For me it's very simple: hate D&D 2e, love 3e. I was really pissed for a very long time that it never got an expansion.

  • PokotaPokota Member Posts: 494
    edited August 2017
    I never got out of Targos, so being able to play it in the EE engine is a plus.

    Also, my first D&D books were 3e, so there's a big nostalgia factor here for me (everything I'd done in 2e was CRPG)

    I wonder if the closure of the production studio shortly after IWD2 was released might have been a factor in why IWD2 has the issues it does? It would make sense that the game is as... unfinished as it is if the devs thought it was a death march

    sarevok57
  • FandraxxFandraxx Member Posts: 150
    I'd say part of the reason it's so liked is that it's the only DnD game with 3rd edition (or later) that ever really felt like Baldur's Gate/Icewind Dale games that came before it. Temple of Elemental Evil and Neverwinter Nights (1 and 2) are all fun games, but they don't capture the magic of the old games like IWD2 does.

    Grond0AerakarkanisathaMERLANCE
  • gugulug5000gugulug5000 Member Posts: 205
    Honestly, I think it's partially nostalgia. Don't get me wrong, I quite enjoyed Icewind Dale II, and it was not a bad game, but in my eyes the BG games are far superior. I've always thought that, out of the Infinity Engine games, BG was the series to play if you liked a good story, and Icewind Dale was the series you played if you liked good gameplay/battles. The fight to get the Holy Avenger against the Lost Followers is one I still remember being ridiculously hard, but very fun.

    I've never really been huge into D&D outside of the Forgotten Realms games (and now Planescape: Torment years later), so I can't say what I think about the different rule sets influencing my opinion. I did however, like the rules in Icewind Dale II as they felt like upgrades to the rules I knew back in the BG games. Being able to play as subraces was a welcome addition, and I remember having a whole bunch of them in my playthrough of IDII. I'd gladly pay Beamdog for a remastered version of the game, so I hope they find the source code.

    Shikaosarevok5710Bazza11StummvonBordwehr
  • PaulaMigratePaulaMigrate Member Posts: 1,201
    As a whole - and that seems to be confirmed by a number of other posts - IWD2 has served as a decent repository for modders of the BG series. Many maps have appeared over time via mods in BG's, much of the improved enemy AI has been ported to the BG via mods, and even some of the new monsters/animations/spells. As a source of inspiration it has worked, as a game it failed.
    As such, a modded Baldur's Gate can provide many of the good technical ideas of IWD2 without the need to ever endure the whole meandering mess.

    Kusel
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,418
    edited August 2017
    Artona said:

    I like IWD2 because it has those cool ice ankhegs. I don't remember how they are called, but you know what I mean. They are awesome.
    ;)

    Rehmoraz. I think they where introduced in IWD: Heart of Winter. IMO, a much better written adventure.

    Avenger_teambg
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,418
    ThacoBell said:

    Or deciphering the invading forces messages because your drow or half orc character can understand goblin languages.

    There are lots of little things like that in the opening town, but they have no actual effect on the game, and they soon disappear once you get further into the game.

  • ArtonaArtona Member Posts: 961
    @Fardragon - thanks. I remember reading about them in 3rd Edition Monster Manual when I was a kid. ;)

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 7,841
    Its funny that BG is considered the story driven series and IWD hack-and-slash, but IWD2 has FAR more rp opportunities than than the all the previous games combined.

    Artona
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 6,101
    Story and RP are two different things.

    For example, it is possible to change the story in BG2 (siding with the thieves or vampires) than it is in IWD2.

    Side quests and adventures tell different stories that the character partake in instead of one giant quest with a narrative. IWD is tight and focused, where BG offers exploration on top of a story.

    sarevok57semiticgod
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 7,841
    deltago said:

    Story and RP are two different things.

    For example, it is possible to change the story in BG2 (siding with the thieves or vampires) than it is in IWD2.

    Side quests and adventures tell different stories that the character partake in instead of one giant quest with a narrative. IWD is tight and focused, where BG offers exploration on top of a story.

    Yes and no. Being able to RP different ways, and having the game acknowledge them, provides more ways of interacting with the story, rather than just following it. This is one of IWD2's biggest strengths.

  • TheElfTheElf Member Posts: 788
    I never got too into the IWD series, but for all its faults I liked the second better than the first. 3e was imo a much better ruleset for pc games and the ability to finally customize your build a lot more was fun. I also liked how the game actually really responded to what characters you chose. One of my favorite moments in IE games was when my priest of Talos told the Priestess of Auril to back off.

    ThacoBellCvijetaBalrog99
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,418
    ThacoBell said:

    Its funny that BG is considered the story driven series and IWD hack-and-slash, but IWD2 has FAR more rp opportunities than than the all the previous games combined.

    Having different dialogue options that lead to the same outcome is not "story".

    PokotaAvenger_teambgsemiticgod
  • DrakeICNDrakeICN Member Posts: 623
    edited August 2017
    Am I the only one who actually liked the Twins? I thought the twins story was well-written... although it did not invoke a sense of dread, sadness and doom like for example the Sephiroth - Aeris - Zack - Cloud triangle, uh, square drama did.

    I also liked the Duergar city, and the witch. I mean, the forest I did not like so much, but the witch was well-written. I actually wanted to side with her - yes yes, she eats children, but without her the local savages WILL sack that town. She was right!

    The worst part in my mind was returning to Kuldahar. All of a sudden, the game turns into Diablo with mindless mobs rushing the druid. *Yawn* I think they ran out of money, or ideas, or both.

    sarevok57Grum10Bazza11
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,418
    edited August 2017
    The problem with "the Twins" as antagonists is they don't appear until the end. I don't know if they are interesting or not, because I got bored long before I encountered them.

    A good antagonist makes their presence felt throughout the story. Saravok, Irenicus, Seraphiroth are active right from the beginning of the story. So are the antagonists in SoD, SCL and many others. The antagonists in IWD1 also appear quite early in the game, if in disguise.

    sarevok57Baptor
  • PaulaMigratePaulaMigrate Member Posts: 1,201
    Fardragon said:

    The problem with "the Twins" as antagonists is they don't appear until the end. I don't know if they are interesting or not, because I got bored long before I encountered them.

    A good antagonist makes their presence felt throughout the story. Saravok, Irenicus, Seraphiroth are active right from the beginning of the story. So are the antagonists in SoD, SCL and many others. The antagonists in IWD1 also appear quite early in the game, if in disguise.

    Even Melissan at least *appeared* until she was revealed as the ToB antagonist.
    This is just another symptom of the IWD2 dilemma - after they had all these diverse elements for a game, they finally found that they need a minimum plot to glue it together. And then they found that some antagonist may do the plot some good. So the twins were invented out of a hat, at least that's how it all feels.

    sarevok57
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 4,805
    I would really like IWD2 if not for the puzzle dungeons. I hate puzzle dungeons with a passion. I very much enjoy the 3rd edition implementation and character/party building in the game, and I like the strategic/tactical battles in the first few scenarios, but unfortunately, I just can't maintain interest once I get to the ice dungeon with all the secret doors and levers that keep you running around like a mouse in a maze trying to get through the thing. Once I find myself saying "The heck with this," and going online trying to find solutions, I know I'm not having fun. It's just too tedious. It's work instead of play.

    I remember the first time I played it in 2002. I got as far as a dungeon where apparently I was supposed to find some way to reset time to go back through the whole dungeon, undoing everything that had happened up to that point, but I couldn't figure out how to do it. I spent about an hour just wandering around in the empty dungeon trying to spot what I must have missed. I then realized I didn't want to do that any more, so I quit without finishing the game.

    I tried it again a couple of years ago, and I quit due to frustration, not with the combat, but with all the secret doors and lever pulling, in the aforementioned ice dungeon.

    So I've never finished IWD2, and I've rarely even tried to start it, since I know now that after the first third or so of the game with the interesting battles it turns into a series of tedious puzzles.

    semiticgodsarevok5710Bazza11
  • CvijetaCvijeta Member Posts: 327
    I like third edition rules, I liked playable races and choosing your own team from scratch.

    Shikao
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