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Boxing Thread

DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,514
edited August 30 in Off-Topic
Edit: Topic changed.

Noting I'm not an expert, I'd like to point out I have always felt that it'd be a relatively easy win for Mayweather, provided he doesn't throw the fight. Having heard every educated voice largely agreeing with me, I feel like at least I'm not a complete noob. ;)

So, I expect Mayweather's mobility and quick thinking/skill will still dominate this matchup, with Mcgregor landing surprisingly few blows. I suspect Mayweather will be able to strike with safety despite having less reach, again due to mobility and skill, though I don't expect Mayweather to get a knockout, I do expect a dominant performance.

The only edge I can see, and the only strategy that Mcgregor could bet on would be to get a few lucky punches early, most likely at the cost of being punched first. He's a bit heavier, and though MMA fighters don't get punched like boxers (either as powerfully or as constantly, as they have other options), he'll be used enough to being hit to make trading blows early a necessity. If Mcgregor fumbles on these trades, he might get knocked out, but I don't see him winning this fight unless he can slow down Mayweather, and giving him either some very big body shots (...these guys aren't heavyweights, so no padding on the tummy) or daze him a bit. I don't expect this to work, Mayweather has beaten probably quite a few professional boxers trying the same strategy, to hurt him early to bring him down to earth.

General point, I really don't understand why either sport is really happy about this matchup; if Mayweather loses somehow (thrown fight), his perfect record is ruined, and after he has gone hill a bit most likely. It's not 30 yo Mayweather vs 20 yo Mcgregor, which would have been more fair, heck 5 years ago this would have been more interesting, though Mcgregor was a nobody back then. If Mayweather wins, he's managed to get a payday he really didn't need, but probably couldn't bring himself to turn down. This is very much about the money, as are all matches, but pitting an undefeated champion vs a guy nobody had heard of a few years back is absurd, and a bit offensive. I don't think Mcgregor earned this match, period. It's insulting to boxing to sanction this, but I'm getting rant-ey now.

Yeah, about that 'out of nowhere' thing, is this going to be a consistent UFC thing now, pretending any champ is the 'greatest ever'? Because thats really lame. Am I the only one that thinks UFC is faker than boxing?
Post edited by DreadKhan on
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Comments

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 3,330
    edited August 27
    DreadKhan said:

    Noting I'm not an expert, I'd like to point out I have always felt that it'd be a relatively easy win for Mayweather, provided he doesn't throw the fight. Having heard every educated voice largely agreeing with me, I feel like at least I'm not a complete noob. ;)

    So, I expect Mayweather's mobility and quick thinking/skill will still dominate this matchup, with Mcgregor landing surprisingly few blows. I suspect Mayweather will be able to strike with safety despite having less reach, again due to mobility and skill, though I don't expect Mayweather to get a knockout, I do expect a dominant performance.

    The only edge I can see, and the only strategy that Mcgregor could bet on would be to get a few lucky punches early, most likely at the cost of being punched first. He's a bit heavier, and though MMA fighters don't get punched like boxers (either as powerfully or as constantly, as they have other options), he'll be used enough to being hit to make trading blows early a necessity. If Mcgregor fumbles on these trades, he might get knocked out, but I don't see him winning this fight unless he can slow down Mayweather, and giving him either some very big body shots (...these guys aren't heavyweights, so no padding on the tummy) or daze him a bit. I don't expect this to work, Mayweather has beaten probably quite a few professional boxers trying the same strategy, to hurt him early to bring him down to earth.

    General point, I really don't understand why either sport is really happy about this matchup; if Mayweather loses somehow (thrown fight), his perfect record is ruined, and after he has gone hill a bit most likely. It's not 30 yo Mayweather vs 20 yo Mcgregor, which would have been more fair, heck 5 years ago this would have been more interesting, though Mcgregor was a nobody back then. If Mayweather wins, he's managed to get a payday he really didn't need, but probably couldn't bring himself to turn down. This is very much about the money, as are all matches, but pitting an undefeated champion vs a guy nobody had heard of a few years back is absurd, and a bit offensive. I don't think Mcgregor earned this match, period. It's insulting to boxing to sanction this, but I'm getting rant-ey now.

    Yeah, about that 'out of nowhere' thing, is this going to be a consistent UFC thing now, pretending any champ is the 'greatest ever'? Because thats really lame. Am I the only one that thinks UFC is faker than boxing?

    I mean, is it POSSIBLE McGregor could land one punch and end it?? Yeah, I guess. But Floyd Mayweather has never even been KNOCKED DOWN in his career. I've seen many of his fights, and I've seen him get truly tagged in only one round, against Shane Mosley, where he took a couple of very solid, hard shots that actually made his knees buckle. He shrugged them off and then went on to humiliate Mosley for the rest of the fight. And that was when he actually got hit. Most of the time, his opponents are swinging at air.

    I guess the main thing here is the straight-up arrogance of the UFC crowd. Mayweather has been boxing and fighting (and beating, and schooling) the best competition in the world since he came out of the womb, and though anything is POSSIBLE, the idea that McGregor is just going to walk in after a couple months of training and have any idea how to box is just.....crazy. I mean, he should get hammered just on his footwork alone. McGregor hits hard for a UFC fighter. I highly, highly doubt he has anywhere near the punching power of actual boxers Floyd had absolutely no trouble with like Mosley, Pacquiao, Cotto, De La Hoya, and Canelo Alvarez, just to name a few of the world class BOXERS Floyd made look like fools when they fought him. He's a ghost. He plays defense and then peppers you with counter-shots for 12 rounds. When you go to swing, he simply isn't there anymore 80% of the time.
    DreadKhanArtonaArctodus
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,514
    I'd also find it pretty unlikely that either can punch hard enough for a really early knockout, but it's true that we'll have to wait. UFC punching is much more about softening up for more effective stuff, rather than just a knockout by itself. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Mcgregor, having using lighter UFC gloves instead, isn't going to like the extra weight, and he'll be less used to the extra padding. I wonder if he's used to punching as hard as Mayweather, who's used to having both more weight and the extra padding. *shrugs* Probably a nothing though.

    It's a big step to go from UFC to Boxing, not something that either organization should be taking so lightly. I might be a tad too serious though.

    I don't really like either fighter that much, both are offensive to my sensibilities, but I probably would prefer Mayweather to win, as he seems like less of a jerk. Which is saying something, considering the arrogance pouring out of both.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 3,330
    DreadKhan said:

    I'd also find it pretty unlikely that either can punch hard enough for a really early knockout, but it's true that we'll have to wait. UFC punching is much more about softening up for more effective stuff, rather than just a knockout by itself. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Mcgregor, having using lighter UFC gloves instead, isn't going to like the extra weight, and he'll be less used to the extra padding. I wonder if he's used to punching as hard as Mayweather, who's used to having both more weight and the extra padding. *shrugs* Probably a nothing though.

    It's a big step to go from UFC to Boxing, not something that either organization should be taking so lightly. I might be a tad too serious though.

    I don't really like either fighter that much, both are offensive to my sensibilities, but I probably would prefer Mayweather to win, as he seems like less of a jerk. Which is saying something, considering the arrogance pouring out of both.

    Aside from Mayweather's very real (and very bad) domestic violence issues, his persona is not different than a wrestling heel. When he was "Pretty Boy Floyd", he was just a great boxer who no one really cared about in the general public. When he made himself "Money" Mayweather, a guy who flaunted his wealth at every opportunity, he became the biggest box office draw in boxing, DESPITE the fact that most people find his fights boring (I don't, but most people do). Why?? They hate him so much they will fork over up to $100 to see him get knocked out. The secret to his success is that he has never let it happen, and people keep coming back to see it. Between this and his Pacquaio fight, Mayweather is going to be going home with upwards of $350 million dollars between the two.
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,514
    I wonder if they'll do a sprinter vs a marathon runner next? *rolls eyes* Maybe there will be a surprise still, but I'm thinking it's going Floyd's way.

    Maybe up the cardio a bit if you're going to be going 12 rounds?
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,514
    Ouch, that's the match! TKO.

    That went shockingly like I expected it to, other than Mayweather's entrance... now, no judgement, but, uh, was that a gimp suit?
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 3,330
    edited August 27
    DreadKhan said:

    Ouch, that's the match! TKO.

    That went shockingly like I expected it to, other than Mayweather's entrance... now, no judgement, but, uh, was that a gimp suit?

    Floyd didn't even attempt to do anything the first 2 rounds except get a feel for how McGregor would box, but the most obvious thing was this: UFC fights are 25 minutes, the moment it went to Round 9, it was over.
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,514
    UFC strongly favors sprinter types, and should actually be able to accommodate an older fighter more easily than boxing, and boxing has had some champs that were not young. That said, there is no way in hell Mayweather will go in the octagon, and I think no less of him for knowing how bad an idea that would be.

    Good night for some brandy and a cigar! I like being right, even when it was pretty obvious how it would go. I think it should be a big fat clue when the big money is all on one guy, and the bulk of the bets are on the other.

    I wonder if this'll help dispel the myth that Irish people are especially good fighters? I'm not holding my breathe, but maybe it'll be a start.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,483
    edited August 27
    Yea I don't follow boxing (and I may just be ignorant when it comes to the strategy) but I was just surprised in how open McGregor left himself in some of those rounds. It seemed like at times he was forgetting the defensive side of boxing. Like he would leave an arm limp and just focus on the one hook. Meanwhile I'm thinking "keep your other arm up!" :)
  • ArtonaArtona Member Posts: 713
    Floyd had absolutely no trouble with like Mosley, Pacquiao, Cotto, De La Hoya, and Canelo Alvarez, just to name a few of the world class BOXERS Floyd made look like fools when they fought him. He's a ghost. He plays defense and then peppers you with counter-shots for 12 rounds. When you go to swing, he simply isn't there anymore 80% of the time.


    Berto gives his thoughts about fighting TBE here:

    Well, outcome isn't surprising, but I think Floyd could finish McGregor earlier if he wanted to. I'm just glad because this very lucrative freak-fight is over. Money pays his taxes, McGregor counts income on his yacht in Ibiza (according to his own words), everyone is happy.
    And there are interesting fights on horizon: Łomaczenko vs Rigondeaux, Canelo vs GGG, and so on. :)

    Do you guys think Mayweather vs McGregor will have positive impact on boxing overall? I think one of Floyd's advisors said something about that - that this fight will bring media attention to discipline and it will benefit from it as a whole.
    Arctodus
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 3,330
    edited August 27
    Artona said:

    Floyd had absolutely no trouble with like Mosley, Pacquiao, Cotto, De La Hoya, and Canelo Alvarez, just to name a few of the world class BOXERS Floyd made look like fools when they fought him. He's a ghost. He plays defense and then peppers you with counter-shots for 12 rounds. When you go to swing, he simply isn't there anymore 80% of the time.


    Berto gives his thoughts about fighting TBE here:

    Well, outcome isn't surprising, but I think Floyd could finish McGregor earlier if he wanted to. I'm just glad because this very lucrative freak-fight is over. Money pays his taxes, McGregor counts income on his yacht in Ibiza (according to his own words), everyone is happy.
    And there are interesting fights on horizon: Łomaczenko vs Rigondeaux, Canelo vs GGG, and so on. :)

    Do you guys think Mayweather vs McGregor will have positive impact on boxing overall? I think one of Floyd's advisors said something about that - that this fight will bring media attention to discipline and it will benefit from it as a whole.
    I think it should shut up MMA fans for awhile about how superior their sport is. I'm a boxing partisan, so this makes me happy. It was a spectacle, and Floyd overtook Marciano's undefeated record in a grand show. He ends up 50-0, having beaten every single rival of his generation (and some of the next generation) and the best current MMA fighter. His legacy is very secure as one of the best ever. But if this DOES make people more interested in boxing, the real big fight for the sport is coming up soon, in GGG vs. Canelo, which is a major match-up (the best one currently available in the sport).
    ArtonaArctodusStummvonBordwehr
  • ArctodusArctodus Member Posts: 609
    edited August 27
    Artona said:

    Well, outcome isn't surprising, but I think Floyd could finish McGregor earlier if he wanted to. I'm just glad because this very lucrative freak-fight is over. Money pays his taxes, McGregor counts income on his yacht in Ibiza (according to his own words), everyone is happy.
    And there are interesting fights on horizon: Łomaczenko vs Rigondeaux, Canelo vs GGG, and so on. :)

    This. So much this. Even though I was not a big fan of the matchup at first, seeing it as the mismatch it was in the end, it didn't bothered me as much as other people. Until the promotion started. As someone who follow boxing very regularly, I was just fed up with all the nonsense and noise about that fight, particularly the Malignaggi parts. This is where McGregor looked like an real jerk to me, because he broke the "bro code" of boxing : what happen in sparring, stays in sparring. Glad it's over anyway, because boxing is having a PHENOMENAL year with awesome matchups, so we can get back to the real thing.
    Artona said:

    you guys think Mayweather vs McGregor will have positive impact on boxing overall? I think one of Floyd's advisors said something about that - that this fight will bring media attention to discipline and it will benefit from it as a whole.

    Now that Mayweather won, it can't be all that bad for boxing, if only because of the vast visibility it gave to casual fans. It would have been more crippling if somehow McGregor would have won. MMA nerds would have been all over boxing, saying our sport is dead. Don't get me wrong, I like MMA and its basic philosophy (less rule and a "whatever works" approach to fighting), but to shun boxing like it's an antiquated approach to fighting is absurd. That's the only reason why I was pulling for Mayweather actually, so boxing would keep its credibility.
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 4,057
    My first reaction to this thread was: "May weather? But it's already the end of August! And what the heck is a McGrocery??"
    Then I actually read the first post... No wonder I never heard about them, given my disinterest for any kind of sports. :p
    ArctodusArtona
  • ArtonaArtona Member Posts: 713
    edited August 27
    @Arctodus
    I was just fed up with all the nonsense and noise about that fight, particularly the Malignaggi parts. This is where McGregor looked like an real jerk to me, because he broke the "bro code" of boxing : what happen in sparring, stays in sparring.


    I agree, but for me it looked like Malignaggi was absolutely desperate to make fight with McGregor and make some of that money. I can't blame the guy who gets his face punched as a full-time job, but it was kinda like that made up drama with Mayorga slapping Mosley's wife butt. Embarrasing as hell.

    Now that Mayweather won, it can't be all that bad for boxing, if only because of the vast visibility it gave to casual fans. It would have been more crippling if somehow McGregor would have won. MMA nerds would have been all over boxing, saying our sport is dead. Don't get me wrong, I like MMA and its basic philosophy (less rule and a "whatever works" approach to fighting), but to shun boxing like it's an antiquated approach to fighting is absurd. That's the only reason why I was pulling for Mayweather, actually, so boxing would keep its credibility.


    Hear, hear! :)
    It seems to me like some people don't understand that boxing is sport, like running on swimming. Sure, maybe MMA would be more efficient in real-life fight, but you know what would be *even* more effective? Krav maga. Or even better, a gun. So who cares what *sport* is better as *real life skill*? It's like dismissing olympic running because it wouldn't be useful in urban enviroments, and saying that steeplechase is better. Maybe McGregor would win with Floyd in real fight, but Floyd is an athlete, sportsman.
    But yeah, I really hope that event will bring people rather to boxing than to MMA.
    Btw, I'm really glad that many of those names that dominated last decade are retiring: Money, Klitschkos, Cotto, (hopefully soon) Pacquiao... Great fighters, but I welcome generation change. :)
    Post edited by Artona on
    Arctodussemiticgod
  • ArctodusArctodus Member Posts: 609
    edited August 27
    Yep, a new generation is more than welcome.

    Money : he was done with boxing after Berto to me. This fight was nothing more than a glorified sparring session. It was sanctionned by NSAC, but really shouldn't have been.

    Pacquiao : even though I believe he should have won against Horn, he's nowhere as good as the really dynamic fighter he was even 5 years ago. I think he'll fight Horn again only to prove his point, but should REALLY retire after that.

    Cotto : I read that he want the Canelo/Golovkin winner in december. C'mon. You beated Kamegai last night, not Jacobs. Kamegai is a game and willing opponent, but of limited talent at this level. Canelo already beated Cotto and Golovkin would be too big for him. He should get out now and wait for the Hall of Fame to call.

    W. Klitschko : a nice champion that I appreciated. His fight with Joshua is probably the FOTY. A real throwback fight where both guys got up from the canvas. W.K. could have won after the 6th, but couldn't pull the trigger. He went out proudly though, his performance was top notch. The best retirement I've seen in years, timing wise. I think his brother was the better of the two though.

    Now it's time for the Lomachenkos, Crawfords and Joshuas to shine !!

    Edit : In my previous post, I erased my comment about kung fu that still appear in your quote. I was trying to be funny, but disagree with this type of opinion at the end of the day. All aproach to martial arts possess something valid.
    Post edited by Arctodus on
  • ArtonaArtona Member Posts: 713
    I edited quote in my comment.
    Man, Pacquaio hurts me the most because he is the man that got me interested into boxing. His fight with Hatton was first boxing match I watched in entirety and he was terrifying. Seeing him now is just sad.
    But I believe good times are coming. Too bad it seems that Real-Life-Brad-Pitt-From-"The Snatch" a.k.a. Tyson Fury apparently is in some kind of semi-retirement. I don't agree with many of his comments, but this man was hilarious.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 3,330
    edited August 27
    After GGG vs Canelo, there may not BE any more PPVs. Mayweather and Pacquaio have been the only two actual stars for quite some time. No one is going to shell out $60 to watch Terrance Crawford or Andre Ward. Top Rank just signed a new 4 year deal with ESPN. All major matches once this next big one is done are going to be on paid cable.
    Arctodus
  • ArctodusArctodus Member Posts: 609
    @jjstraka34 It's something I highly wish for. The PPV model was perhaps fine in the 90', but it's not sustainable right now, I agree with you.
    jjstraka34
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,514
    I'm not surprised Mcgregor is talking smack after losing. I'm shocked how eager most media is to present this as having been a close match; defaulting to the belief that Mayweather wasn't being cautious/tiring a fighter he has reason to believe can't go the distance.

    Then again, what exactly was I expecting, Mcgregor to admit he was painfully out of his element and was soundly outboxed?
    ArctodusArtona
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 3,330
    edited August 30
    DreadKhan said:

    I'm not surprised Mcgregor is talking smack after losing. I'm shocked how eager most media is to present this as having been a close match; defaulting to the belief that Mayweather wasn't being cautious/tiring a fighter he has reason to believe can't go the distance.

    Then again, what exactly was I expecting, Mcgregor to admit he was painfully out of his element and was soundly outboxed?

    Look, I thought he gave Mayweather his due immediately after the fight, but here is the truth: Floyd let Connor have the first two (if not four) rounds. He did it for two reasons, one being that he wanted to examine a type of opponent he had never seen before and two because he didn't want to send the viewers home pissed at a boring fight. He had SO much faith in his ability to win the fight later on that he gave away 1/3 of it on purpose. But the main point is that McGregor didn't have the stamina to fight 12 rounds. And it's being brought up as an excuse for why he lost. It's not an excuse. It's a REASON, but it sure as hell can't be an excuse. There may be 2 or 3 things more important to winning a boxing match than having the stamina to complete the fight, but I can't think of many more. Endurance is a major component in elite athletes. Look at Michael Jordan winning an NBA Finals game with the full-blown flu. Michael Phelps in most of his races. Hell, you can go back to Ali vs. Foreman (where many in Ali's corner actually thought Foreman might literally KILL Ali in the ring). Endurance and stamina are skills. Mayweather has elite endurance. I've never seen him winded in the 10-15 years I've been watching him fight. McGregor has been winded in EVERY fight he has had that went past the first round. Floyd was simply doing the smartest thing he could, which was waiting til McGregor hit a wall after the first 5 or 6 rounds. Mayweather always operates from a solid starting base, which is "I'm going to be as fresh in 9, 10, 11, and 12 as I was in Round 1". And that minimizes his chances of losing on it's own.

    As a side note, maybe we can edit the title of this thread slightly and turn into one about boxing in general?? Just a thought......
    ArctodusDreadKhan
  • ArctodusArctodus Member Posts: 609
    edited August 30
    Yeah, I agree. A boxing thread would be nice here !

    All in all, can't agree with you more on your analysis of the Maymac fight. MMA fans saying McGregor outboxed Mayweather for three rounds and only lost because of his stamina don't know much about boxing, or strategy in general for that matter.
    DreadKhanAerakar
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,514
    Consider your request filled!

    Stamina is a massive part of boxing, and its a key element of earning a place in the upper echelons. Lots more guys could box if there was only a few rounds, and there is a reason street altercations are usually over quickly. I'd argue that a fighter with excellent stamina has a bigger advantage than a harder hitter, within reason. Many of the best boxers have relied heavily on their superior conditioning to win.
    jjstraka34
  • ArtonaArtona Member Posts: 713
    Yay, boxing thread!
    MMA fans saying McGregor outboxed Mayweather for three rounds and only lost because of his stamina don't know much about boxing, or strategy in general for that matter.


    Yup, and it's weird that people didn't see that Floyd didn't even bother too attack in first three (or something) rounds. It was pretty obvious.
  • ArctodusArctodus Member Posts: 609
    DreadKhan said:

    Consider your request filled!

    Stamina is a massive part of boxing, and its a key element of earning a place in the upper echelons. Lots more guys could box if there was only a few rounds, and there is a reason street altercations are usually over quickly. I'd argue that a fighter with excellent stamina has a bigger advantage than a harder hitter, within reason. Many of the best boxers have relied heavily on their superior conditioning to win.

    Yeah, you know what they say : boxing ain't no bodybuilding contest. Stamina is much more important than pure power. A powerful boxer will be drowned in later rounds by a fighter with an effective defense any day of the week. I remember the first time I was taught how to roll with a punch when you're getting hit : you take the steam right out of the punch without any issue. That's what you do when you want to tire an opponent. McGregor is probably too big for his frame muscle-wise, which is why he struggles with stamina, in my opinion. He needs this muscle mass in MMA for the westling part of the game, but it's just not optimal for a boxing match.

    Which leads to the Golovkin/Canelo fight : I saw pics of Canelo's open workout yesterday and he looks huge right now. I wonder if it will affect his stamina. Since he's still young, he still can cut a lot of weight on the balance, but right now he looks even bigger than against Chavez Jr, which was at a higher catchweight limit of 164. I don't know what to make of it, honestly. Is it his natural frame now that he made the move to middleweight ? Is he bulking up for the Golovkin fight ? If so, is that such a good idea ?
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 3,330
    Arctodus said:

    DreadKhan said:

    Consider your request filled!

    Stamina is a massive part of boxing, and its a key element of earning a place in the upper echelons. Lots more guys could box if there was only a few rounds, and there is a reason street altercations are usually over quickly. I'd argue that a fighter with excellent stamina has a bigger advantage than a harder hitter, within reason. Many of the best boxers have relied heavily on their superior conditioning to win.

    Yeah, you know what they say : boxing ain't no bodybuilding contest. Stamina is much more important than pure power. A powerful boxer will be drowned in later rounds by a fighter with an effective defense any day of the week. I remember the first time I was taught how to roll with a punch when you're getting hit : you take the steam right out of the punch without any issue. That's what you do when you want to tire an opponent. McGregor is probably too big for his frame muscle-wise, which is why he struggles with stamina, in my opinion. He needs this muscle mass in MMA for the westling part of the game, but it's just not optimal for a boxing match.

    Which leads to the Golovkin/Canelo fight : I saw pics of Canelo's open workout yesterday and he looks huge right now. I wonder if it will affect his stamina. Since he's still young, he still can cut a lot of weight on the balance, but right now he looks even bigger than against Chavez Jr, which was at a higher catchweight limit of 164. I don't know what to make of it, honestly. Is it his natural frame now that he made the move to middleweight ? Is he bulking up for the Golovkin fight ? If so, is that such a good idea ?
    I thought GGG was going to win this fight anyway, but Canelo is moving up and looking at bulk as his only way to win. Chavez Jr. is not actually a very good fighter, and a poor warm-up for this type of bout. Canelo is good, he isn't great.
  • ArctodusArctodus Member Posts: 609
    I agree with you, but it all depends on which GGG we get against Canelo. If it's the fighter who destroyed David Lemieux behind a powerful jab and precise powershots, I give Canelo just about no chance. If it's the hesitant puncher looking for the big shot that is not coming like against Jacobs, we might have a fight then.

    If Golovkin is not as sharp as his usual self, be it because of age or because he's less focused on the sport, or even a combination of those two factors, it's in the realm of possibilities that Canelo could win. This is what Oscar de la Hoya hopes for, at least (and why he waited so long to finalize the matchup). I'm just not sure that bulking up is the best way to go to make the fight against GGG competitive.

    And yeah, I agree that Canelo is an overrated fighter : he had too many close calls swinging in his favor to be considered great.
  • SharGuidesMyHandSharGuidesMyHand Member Posts: 2,109
    Artona said:

    Yay, boxing thread!

    My thoughts exactly - I've not only been a boxing fan, but an amateur historian for the better part of my life (hasn't made me any better at predicting fights though, LOL). I've even tried making at least one other boxing-related thread in the past ( https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/61392/so-how-many-of-you-brits-are-watching-kell-brook-enter-the-ring-right-now ), but it completely fell flat.
    Artona said:

    MMA fans saying McGregor outboxed Mayweather for three rounds and only lost because of his stamina don't know much about boxing, or strategy in general for that matter.


    Yup, and it's weird that people didn't see that Floyd didn't even bother too attack in first three (or something) rounds. It was pretty obvious.
    McGregor fought like a guy who's never had a professional boxing match before, Mayweather fought like a guy who knew he could never, under any circumstances, lose to a guy who's never had a professional boxing match before - neither of which should've been particularly surprising, since that was the case in both instances.

    As a boxing fan, I was disgusted that this sham of a "fight" ever took place, but even moreso that A) it overshadowed every other boxing event this year, including ones that had actual meaning, B) Mayweather used it to break Rocky Marciano's 49-0 milestone, and C) Mayweather actually gave up rounds to this guy, which basically gave McGregor a sort of "moral victory" as well as a general impression (whether accurate or not) that a guy from a different sport actually belongs in the ring with a Hall of Fame-bound boxer.
  • SharGuidesMyHandSharGuidesMyHand Member Posts: 2,109
    Arctodus said:

    If it's the hesitant puncher looking for the big shot that is not coming like against Jacobs, we might have a fight then.

    I think GGG got an unfairly bad rap for his performance against Jacobs - I was impressed by the way he was able to jab so effectively against a taller guy with good boxing skills and very fast combos. Certainly, I'd love to see how Canelo would've handled a top MW like that (or even one as good as Lemieux), instead of natural Jr. MWs/WWs like Cotto, Khan, and Liam Smith, or an overblown punching bag like Chavez.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 3,330

    Artona said:

    Yay, boxing thread!

    My thoughts exactly - I've not only been a boxing fan, but an amateur historian for the better part of my life (hasn't made me any better at predicting fights though, LOL). I've even tried making at least one other boxing-related thread in the past ( https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/61392/so-how-many-of-you-brits-are-watching-kell-brook-enter-the-ring-right-now ), but it completely fell flat.
    Artona said:

    MMA fans saying McGregor outboxed Mayweather for three rounds and only lost because of his stamina don't know much about boxing, or strategy in general for that matter.


    Yup, and it's weird that people didn't see that Floyd didn't even bother too attack in first three (or something) rounds. It was pretty obvious.
    McGregor fought like a guy who's never had a professional boxing match before, Mayweather fought like a guy who knew he could never, under any circumstances, lose to a guy who's never had a professional boxing match before - neither of which should've been particularly surprising, since that was the case in both instances.

    As a boxing fan, I was disgusted that this sham of a "fight" ever took place, but even moreso that A) it overshadowed every other boxing event this year, including ones that had actual meaning, B) Mayweather used it to break Rocky Marciano's 49-0 milestone, and C) Mayweather actually gave up rounds to this guy, which basically gave McGregor a sort of "moral victory" as well as a general impression (whether accurate or not) that a guy from a different sport actually belongs in the ring with a Hall of Fame-bound boxer.
    I mean, Floyd wore that ski-mask to the ring for a reason. He looked at it as he was basically stealing $300 million dollars from the public for a light sparring session. His genius was that he got 75% of the people watching to BELIEVE Connor had a chance because of the first 3 or 4 rounds, when it was nothing of the sort. I've seen reports that Floyd was out at a strip-club and eating Burger King the night before the fight. Not that that matters mind you, because he is famous for doing such things as pulling all-night club sessions and then simply not going to bed and going for a 3 hour run in the wee hours of the morning instead.

    As for Marciano's record, this never could have happened if you didn't have insanely arrogant UFC fans insisting Connor had the power to knock Floyd out, when Floyd has never even been officially knocked DOWN in his entire career (he should have had one against Zab Judah, but it was ruled a slip). It became a legitimate fight because UFC fans aren't too bright when it comes to boxing. All boxing fans knew it was a joke. That said, Floyd had beaten every one of his peers, handily in most cases, including schooling Canelo, who is one of the stars of the show tonight.
    Arctodus
  • ArctodusArctodus Member Posts: 609


    I think GGG got an unfairly bad rap for his performance against Jacobs - I was impressed by the way he was able to jab so effectively against a taller guy with good boxing skills and very fast combos. Certainly, I'd love to see how Canelo would've handled a top MW like that (or even one as good as Lemieux), instead of natural Jr. MWs/WWs like Cotto, Khan, and Liam Smith, or an overblown punching bag like Chavez.

    I agree with you, but he still wasn't as sharp as he was against Lemieux for instance. I suspect that he was tired mentally, perhaps because of all the boxing's politics he had to suffer since he moved in the States. For a 35 years old boxer, he has surprisingly little wear on him, but all those training camps must have taken their toll one way or another. I remember the look on GGG's face at the weight-in against Brook. It seems he didn't want to be there. Think about it : he has probably more than enough money for the rest of his life and, unlike many boxers, he seems to be a quiet family guy. You gotta have a good reason to go through the grinder like they do. So, that's the only reason I could see Canelo beating GGG; his slip would be less physical than psychological.

    That and the historically pro-Canelo judges that were chosen to score the fight. Winning on the score cards will be very hard for GGG.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 3,330
    Arctodus said:


    I think GGG got an unfairly bad rap for his performance against Jacobs - I was impressed by the way he was able to jab so effectively against a taller guy with good boxing skills and very fast combos. Certainly, I'd love to see how Canelo would've handled a top MW like that (or even one as good as Lemieux), instead of natural Jr. MWs/WWs like Cotto, Khan, and Liam Smith, or an overblown punching bag like Chavez.

    I agree with you, but he still wasn't as sharp as he was against Lemieux for instance. I suspect that he was tired mentally, perhaps because of all the boxing's politics he had to suffer since he moved in the States. For a 35 years old boxer, he has surprisingly little wear on him, but all those training camps must have taken their toll one way or another. I remember the look on GGG's face at the weight-in against Brook. It seems he didn't want to be there. Think about it : he has probably more than enough money for the rest of his life and, unlike many boxers, he seems to be a quiet family guy. You gotta have a good reason to go through the grinder like they do. So, that's the only reason I could see Canelo beating GGG; his slip would be less physical than psychological.

    That and the historically pro-Canelo judges that were chosen to score the fight. Winning on the score cards will be very hard for GGG.
    Hard to tell what's going to happen here. I'm not sure I buy this "GGG is washed-up" argument, mostly because Oscar has been making the rounds this week saying how it doesn't matter if Canelo wins or loses, because it's the fight everyone wants to see. Well, he needs to say that, because there are no bankable PPV stars left besides Canelo, and he isn't even that big of a draw outside the Mexican audience. Even Pacquaio has been relegated to ESPN. If Canelo loses, how and against who does he justify a PPV fight?? Even if he wins, who would that be?? Cotto wants the winner, but Canelo already beat Cotto handily, and no one is shelling out $60 to see that fight again.
    Arctodus
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