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Boxing Thread

24

Comments

  • ArctodusArctodus Member Posts: 596
    edited September 17
    I think GGG is definitively not wash-up, just maybe not as sharp. He won't be ko'ed in 4 rounds like Gonzalez last week, but he might have stalled just enough for Canelo to make a fight out of it. And since the fight is in Vegas with those judges, anything can happen.

    GGG at his best beats Canelo any day of the week. But de la Hoya waited to see chinks in GGG's armor to make the fight. We'll see tonight if those chinks are smokescreens or not.
    OrlonKronsteen
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 3,323
    edited September 17
    Serious hard shots landed by both men in Round 1, could have gone either way.

    Alvarez seems to be evading alot of GGG's shots in Round 2, and at this point he looks like the better fighter in this match-up.

    Good rounds thus far, but through 3 I have Alvarez up 2-1. Lots of solid, powerful punching so far, and I expect it to get more frantic as it goes along.

    GGG takes Round 4 to notch it up at 2-2, but the takeaway is that Canelo does not seem to be feeling GGG's power and he is clearly the faster fighter, ducking many of GGG's big shots.
  • ArctodusArctodus Member Posts: 596
    Canelo is a lot sharper now.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 3,323
    Round 5 was amazing, with both men shaking off each other's power shots. GGG is far more active, but Canelo is landing much better counters. I give that round to GGG based on that one massive punch on the ropes. 3-2 GGG.
  • ArctodusArctodus Member Posts: 596
    edited September 17
    GGG is in the fight now. He seemed nervous at first, but he's there now.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 3,323
    edited September 17
    Though Canelo is fighting very well, GGG is throwing and landing too many shots for him to be winning the last couple rounds, and GGG is up 4-2 on my scorecard. Could easily be 3-3.
    OrlonKronsteen
  • ArctodusArctodus Member Posts: 596
    edited September 17
    I fear something now... It's the kind of fight that could go the wrong way on the scorecards.
    OrlonKronsteen
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 3,323
    GGG is now stalking Canelo all over the ring and Alvarez is not landing nearly as many of his counter-combos that we saw in the first 3 rounds. 5-2 GGG.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 3,323
    I will give Alvarez that round based on the landed uppercut and it being pretty close, but it also could have gone to GGG. Main takeaway now is that Canelo is starting to tire. 5-3 GGG after 8.
  • ArctodusArctodus Member Posts: 596
    edited September 17
    I got 6-2, but still believe it's dangerous on the scorecards.

    Edit : 7-2.
    OrlonKronsteen
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 3,323
    GGG takes Alvarez's best shot in Round 9 and shakes it off, dominating the rest of the round. Canelo is now going to need at least a knockdown to get back in it. Tiring. 6-3 after 9.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 3,323
    I can just be persuaded to give Canelo that round based on the first minute and the last 30 seconds, and I will. But I don't think he has the gas to win both of the last two. 6-4 GGG.
  • ArctodusArctodus Member Posts: 596
    edited September 17
    Closer round. Giving it to Canelo for that huge shot. 7-3.
  • ArctodusArctodus Member Posts: 596
    I have the feeling that we're heading into a controversial card.
    OrlonKronsteen
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 3,323
    Damn, that was probably a Canelo round, again, narrowly, in Round 11. I have it 6-5, though 2 or 3 of those could have gone either way.
  • ArctodusArctodus Member Posts: 596
    Good fight. 8-4. Could be 7-5. A draw would be discutable, but if Canelo wins, that's robbery.
    OrlonKronsteen
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 3,323
    I give the last round to GGG, finalizing the score at 7-5 for him, though I will admit I was looking to give Canelo a round in the middle of the fight he may not have deserved. GGG won the fight, but it was competitive. He's just a slightly better fighter, and it showed.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 3,323
    edited September 17
    A draw, but one of the scores was 118-110 Canelo, which is absolutely inexcusable.
    OrlonKronsteen
  • ArctodusArctodus Member Posts: 596
    Ah, Vegas. 118-110 Canelo is a pure farce.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 3,323
    edited September 17
    It seems we will be getting at least one more PPV, as there is absolutely going to be a sequel in the not too distant future, which will be a good watch. But it's going to end the same way, with GGG outboxing Canelo by 2-4 rounds. It's clear one guy is just a cut above the other. Not much, but better all the same. When the punch stats come in, it will clearly show GGG won the fight.
    Arctodus
  • ArctodusArctodus Member Posts: 596
    Yeah, you got that right. The rematch should be someplace else than Vegas, though. Can't believe that 118-110.
    OrlonKronsteen
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 3,323
    edited September 17
    Look, it was absolutely a fight you could score closely. I had it 115-113 in favor of GGG, which is fair but VERY generous to Canelo in a couple of those rounds, but he probably deserved the benefit of the doubt. But to say Canelo won 10 of the 12 rounds is just absurd. However, if the fight was "fixed", it would have made infinitely more sense for Byrd to have scored the fight 115-113 for Canelo, because while most people would disagree with that, it can at least be defended in some way. There is no defense for for the 118-110. No, we are simply looking at someone who shouldn't be judging boxing matches.
    Arctodus
  • ArctodusArctodus Member Posts: 596
    edited September 17
    Well, that's Vegas for you. To me, GGG won because of his jab and pressure. He was going forward, putting Canelo on the ropes and hitting him with big shots all night long. Canelo had a good start, but only threw a few combination here and there on the move. It did net him a few rounds and I'm actually surprised that he withstood all that punishment without ever being really hurt. He gave GGG a tougher fight than Jacobs. But, to me, they threw about the same amount of powershots, while GGG also connected with his jab and was the one putting the pressure. That should have been enough for a victory.
    OrlonKronsteen
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 3,323
    Arctodus said:

    Well, that's Vegas for you. To me, GGG won because of his jab and pressure. He was going forward, putting Canelo on the ropes and hitting him with big shots all night long. Canelo had a good start, but only threw a few combination here and there on the move. It did net him a few rounds and I'm actually surprised that he withstood all that punishment without ever being really hurt. He gave GGG a tougher fight than Jacobs. But, to me, they threw about the same amount of powershots, while GGG also connected with his jab and was the one putting the pressure. That should have been enough for a victory.

    The punch stats bear out a slight GGG victory. Canelo landed a VERY slightly higher percentage, GGG landed far, far more jabs, and Canelo managed to win marginally on power punches:

    Total Punches: Alvarez-169/505 33% GGG-218/703 31%
    Jabs: Alvarez-55/233 24% GGG-108/361 30%
    Power Punches: Alvarez-114/272 42% GGG-110/342 32%

    So, as you said. GGG won the fight on the jab, and Canelo made it close with accuracy on big shots. Those stats are the very definition of a 115-113 GGG win.
  • ArctodusArctodus Member Posts: 596
    edited September 17

    Look, it was absolutely a fight you could score closely. I had it 115-113 in favor of GGG, which is fair but VERY generous to Canelo in a couple of those rounds, but he probably deserved the benefit of the doubt. But to say Canelo won 10 of the 12 rounds is just absurd. However, if the fight was "fixed", it would have made infinitely more sense for Byrd to have scored the fight 115-113 for Canelo, because while most people would disagree with that, it can at least be defended in some way. There is no defense for for the 118-110. No, we are simply looking at someone who shouldn't be judging boxing matches.

    I wouldn't count out the possibility of a corrupt judge, because we can only say that the 118-110 Canelo card should have been 115-113 Canelo to be more believable after the fight is over. For instance, imagine judge Byrd has a 6-4 in favor of Canelo going into the 10th, just to make it more believable. Then, if GGG scores knockdowns in the 11th and 12th, she's screwed, she has to give the fight to GGG. So, corrupt judges have to give everything they can to their "employer" to make sure they respect their "contract". Personally, even moreso on Mexican Independance Day and in Vegas, the possibility that the mexican got help can't really be ignored. That's kinda part of thr history of the sport too...
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 3,323
    Many people are speculating tonight that this is a pattern with Oscar or his fighters in mega-fights. De La Hoya got a decision against Pernell Whitaker he did not deserve. He got a spilt decision against Floyd he did not deserve. One of the judges in Mayweather/Canelo scored the fight a draw, and most people would agree that Mayweather won a MINIMUM of ten round in that fight, if not a shut-out. And now we have tonight, where one judge again was totally off the mark. Canelo is Golden Boy's only real cash cow.
    ArctodusOrlonKronsteen
  • ArctodusArctodus Member Posts: 596
    And Canelo is pretty much the last real PPV draw in the US, like you said earlier. That's a lot of things to consider when weighting such a ridiculous 118-110 card.
    OrlonKronsteen
  • OrlonKronsteenOrlonKronsteen Member Posts: 399
    Absolute corruption. Everything about this fight was stacked for Canelo - including the fact that Golden Boy let GGG slip for two years before finally making the fight (and he has slipped dramatically, as all high-volume, pressure fighters do). I think you guys @Arctodus and @jjstraka34 are generous with your cards - I had it 9-2-1 (1 round even) for GGG. If I really stretch it and give Canelo the closer rounds I still get 7-5 GGG. Like you, @Arctodus, I suspected a raw decision was in the works as the fight went down the stretch. It's what you expect when you've been following boxing for 40 years. Of course Golden Boy is going to protect their fighter and try to squeeze a rematch out of it. And of course they're going to set the rematch up for Cinco de Mayo, in front of a pro-Mexican crowd, with Canelo friendly judges again. By which time GGG will have slipped even more...

    Personally, besides not wanting to reward Golden Boy's corruption by shelling out another small fortune for the pay-per-view, I have no interest in a rematch from a boxing standpoint. The fight wasn't close enough to warrant one in my mind. I'd rather see GGG rematch Jacobs, and then perhaps a retirement fight against Ward. As for Canelo, on to David Lemieux, and then back down to 154.
    Arctodus
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 3,323

    Absolute corruption. Everything about this fight was stacked for Canelo - including the fact that Golden Boy let GGG slip for two years before finally making the fight (and he has slipped dramatically, as all high-volume, pressure fighters do). I think you guys @Arctodus and @jjstraka34 are generous with your cards - I had it 9-2-1 (1 round even) for GGG. If I really stretch it and give Canelo the closer rounds I still get 7-5 GGG. Like you, @Arctodus, I suspected a raw decision was in the works as the fight went down the stretch. It's what you expect when you've been following boxing for 40 years. Of course Golden Boy is going to protect their fighter and try to squeeze a rematch out of it. And of course they're going to set the rematch up for Cinco de Mayo, in front of a pro-Mexican crowd, with Canelo friendly judges again. By which time GGG will have slipped even more...

    Personally, besides not wanting to reward Golden Boy's corruption by shelling out another small fortune for the pay-per-view, I have no interest in a rematch from a boxing standpoint. The fight wasn't close enough to warrant one in my mind. I'd rather see GGG rematch Jacobs, and then perhaps a retirement fight against Ward. As for Canelo, on to David Lemieux, and then back down to 154.

    I think the punch stats bear out that it was reasonably close, but with GGG being a clear winner. He landed far more shots, but it's not hard to see why Canelo won some rounds because his shots were much cleaner, even if there was less of them. That said, even his best shot of the night didn't even momentarily phase GGG. I admit to giving Canelo the benefit of the doubt in about 2 rounds to get to 115-113, but that is the absolute limit for me.
    OrlonKronsteenArctodus
  • ArctodusArctodus Member Posts: 596
    ... and de la Goya and Canelo are already backtracking on the immediate rematch. Canelo will be back in May, but doesn't know against who. Seems that GGG is not old enough yet...
    OrlonKronsteen
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