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Boxing Thread

1246

Comments

  • SouthpawSouthpaw Member Posts: 2,026
    DreadKhan said:

    Eh, being a heavy weight fighter means getting hit by heavy weight fighters, which does not sound fun. Or entirely sane.

    Agree with that. The lighter weight guys do not have enough power to just knock the other guy out with one punch and the fights go 12 rounds long so you get to showcase the skill, endurance, strategy...

    Heavy weights and Super heavy weights are so heavy and their punches carry so much power, it can be done in 1 round and the paying fans would feel robbed.
    (I recently saw an amateur fight which ended in about 30 seconds with a TKO and then a 90kg regional professional fight where the winner knocked down his opponent 3 times in first round and it also ended with a TKO/KO 10 seconds before the end of 1st round)

    Arctodus
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,574
    Arctodus said:

    Well, maaaaaybe Jarrell Miller. The guy's freakin' huge. He's "only" 6'4, but his fighting weight is 300lbs.

    I don't know much about him, but I saw his fight against Gerald Washington. For guy that heavy, he actually had a solid engine. The fight was stopped after the 8th, and Miller kept throwing all night long. But it's always the same thing : he's largely untested. Maybe he's all smokes and mirrors, but maybe he can take a guy like Joshua in deep water. On paper, he seems to have the tools to do so. In reality ? Meh... dont know for sure...

    Well, I see it a bit like this, you have 1 very big limiting factor on all fighters, their air supply. More active tissue requires more air, and boxing is restrictive on breathing. Bigger guy doesn't necessarily mean a proportionate air intake increase. An extra 50lbs of metabolicly active tissue uses a fair bit more air obviously, and unless someones rocking a big indestructible nose, that matters. Thus, bigger bodies are more strained cardio-wise. A bigger guy can pace himself, but a smaller fighter will be able to move faster longer, and the faster your feet can keep moving, the better you can punch. Now, this does assume the small guy is smart enough to tire his opponent, and good enough to not take too many hits. There might also be water concerns, as bigger people sweat more, and drinking is rare afaik during a match, but I see air supply as a bigger concern.

    I see it all as a function of the fact we seem to be designed to be relatively small, under 6ft even.

    Arctodus
  • SharGuidesMyHandSharGuidesMyHand Member Posts: 2,403
    edited November 2017
    Arctodus said:

    Well, maaaaaybe Jarrell Miller. The guy's freakin' huge. He's "only" 6'4, but his fighting weight is 300lbs.

    I don't know much about him, but I saw his fight against Gerald Washington. For guy that heavy, he actually had a solid engine. The fight was stopped after the 8th, and Miller kept throwing all night long. But it's always the same thing : he's largely untested. Maybe he's all smokes and mirrors, but maybe he can take a guy like Joshua in deep water. On paper, he seems to have the tools to do so. In reality ? Meh... dont know for sure...

    Fun fact: I was ringside for Miller's pro debut. Chris Algieri was also on the card, and Pauli Malignaggi, Emile Griffith (RIP), and actor Burt Young (RIP) were all in attendance.

    EDIT: Tor Hamer was also on the card, and he was probably considered its brightest prospect, but his career fizzled badly after quitting on his stool in one of his first big televised fights. Last I read, he had been arrested for possession of drugs.

    ArctodusOrlonKronsteen
  • ArctodusArctodus Member Posts: 996
    edited November 2017
    @DreadKhan I mostly agree with you about size becoming a problem for fighters, but not entirely. Klitscko brothers and Lennox Lewis, all of which were huge men, seem to be able to throw solid punches for twelve round. Obviously, they had to pace themselves, but smaller men also have to.

    Think about the one-sided beating V. Klitschko gave to Briggs. Beating a guy up that bad for 12 rounds actually requires a lot of energy for a 250lbs guy (seriously, it might be one the most brural and one-sided beating that didn't end in a ko I've seen in my life). I brought Miller because he actually seemed to be able to dish out punishment for more than 6 rounds.

    Sometimes, there are genetic freaks : a guy can be huge AND have a really good VO2 max, thus can recover a lot faster than your average 250lbs guy. Add training to that and you can create a monster. Ok, drugs help too, but that's a whole other story there (boxing has to be one of the worst sport on that side).

    All in all, what I'm saying is that you can be big AND still have a pretty good cardio through training - and pacing. I think that's what Joshua lacks : he look like he could lose a good 10-15 lbs of muscle to help his engine. I'm not sure he fights at his natural weight, like Wilder does. He seems "puffed up", which is not that helpful in boxing. I ponder if losing weight would also help him with his stiffness.

    Post edited by Arctodus on
    OrlonKronsteen
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,574
    I'm not saying big guys always lose, my point was more they do have a vulnurability that smarter boxers that aren't as big can exploit. If any fighter lets their opponent dictate the terms of engagement (ie trying to just slug it out with a beast) is probably going to lose. Trying to exhaust your opponent is a very viable strategy, and I think we'll find over time that bigger guys can't keep up if their opponents can play it smart.

    Also, imho boxing is first about legwork and second about punching. Sure, a big guy can punch maybe, but if he's up against someone with serious wheels I foresee problems. Better legwork means getting hit less and hitting harder. I suppose I'm tacitly admitting that the smaller boxer would need to be smarter and fitter to compete.

    Well, I agree any professional boxer worth seeing will have lots of cardio under their belt, but biology isn't on their side. If cardio training could offset the effects of size, I think we'd actually see fatter boxers, since fat helps a ton with body blows... they'll hurt more, but won't be as damaging. Obviously fat boxers aren't a thing.

    Afaik, Briggs has always had air issues, meaning he likely couldn't move enough anyways. He's proof of concept. :neutral:

    Arctodus
  • Dev6Dev6 Member Posts: 677


    Am I in the right thread?

    ArctodusOrlonKronsteenlolien
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,574
    Dev6 said:



    Am I in the right thread?

    Yes, isn't that an old shot of Ali?

    Dev6OrlonKronsteenArctodus
  • SouthpawSouthpaw Member Posts: 2,026
    Dev6 said:



    Am I in the right thread?

    Oh man, I saw that fight. Bloody brutal.

    Dev6OrlonKronsteenArctodus
  • ArctodusArctodus Member Posts: 996
    Dev6 said:



    Am I in the right thread?

    They sure know how to fight on the inside...

    Dev6OrlonKronsteen
  • SharGuidesMyHandSharGuidesMyHand Member Posts: 2,403

    Miguel Cotto's HOF career just came to an end with a loss to Sadam Ali, much like Hopkins' career ended against Joe Smith in December of last year. HBO did a nice career retrospective tribute to him after the fight was over.

    ArctodusOrlonKronsteen
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 6,050
    I'll never forgive Margarito for irrevocably hurting Cotto's career in their first match-up when he almost certainly had loaded gloves. Cotto was on his way to be in the league of Mayweather and Manny up to that point, and while he was always a game warrior right up til now, he was never the same after that fight. Indeed, his only real real triumphs afterwards were Mayorga and giving Margarito the beat-down he deserved.

    ArctodusOrlonKronsteen
  • ArctodusArctodus Member Posts: 996
    edited December 2017
    Anybody's gonna watch Lomachenko vs Rigondeaux ? Personally, I will. On paper, it does look like a nice fight between two superb technicians. And, again on paper, their styles mesh well : one is all about creating angles for pressure and offense, the other is all about counterpunching.

    But it could be a stinker too. Maybe the size difference will be too much for Rigondeaux and it's gonna be a mismatch. Maybe they're gonna be extra cautious and go for a chess match (which I wouldn't necessarily mind, because I like those type of cerebral fights). Anyway, you guys have any thoughts on this ?

    Post edited by Arctodus on
    OrlonKronsteen
  • OrlonKronsteenOrlonKronsteen Member Posts: 597
    This is one of the few fights left that I have any interest in, pitting two potentially all-time greats. Both fighters are better talent-wise even than Mayweather, though it remains to be seen whether they can forge legendary careers (so far Rigondeaux, for various reasons, is falling short; but Loma is blazing a trail). @Arctodus I too have no idea what we'll see. On paper, Loma has the size, youth and the momentum, but... Rigo is just so special and he's going to be extremely motivated. Could size work to his advantage in terms of speed and mobility? In Mayweather's fights at 147 and 154 (admittedly in a weak era) being smaller actually helped him. Then again, Loma is so solid technically, he can beat speed with timing. What will their game plans be? We'll just have to see. It could be a barn-burner, or a chess match, like you say. Either way, it's an epic match in terms of 'the best fighting the best,' and even though I promised I'd never buy a pay-per-view again, I just might pull out my wallet for this one.

    Arctodus
  • ArctodusArctodus Member Posts: 996
    Well, waddaya know. Rigondeaux quits on his stool before the 7th. Another guy who simply has no answer for Lomachenko's technique. The size difference was not even a part of the problem for Rigondeaux, he just couldn't keep up with Loma's speed, angles and precision. Rigo didn't even seem to be hurt : he just had nothing to answer with.

    Lomachenko is something special. To shut down someone like Rigo purely on technique is really, really impressive. The only way I can see any boxer trouble him in the next few years is someone who would take a page from Salido's rough house tactics and pressure. Lomachenko is a highly skilled jazz player : only death metal player can trouble his rythm, as far as I can tell.

    Hats off to Loma !

    OrlonKronsteen
  • OrlonKronsteenOrlonKronsteen Member Posts: 597
    He may be the best fighter in our lifetimes.

    Arctodus
  • OrlonKronsteenOrlonKronsteen Member Posts: 597
    Will Wilder and Ortiz make it to the opening bell without Ortiz flunking a drug test? It's getting close!

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 6,050

    Will Wilder and Ortiz make it to the opening bell without Ortiz flunking a drug test? It's getting close!

    First big fight in awhile, thanks for reminding me about it. Been a bit of a lull lately. It's been hard for both Boxing AND UFC to build new stars lately.

    OrlonKronsteen
  • OrlonKronsteenOrlonKronsteen Member Posts: 597
    Yeah, I've admittedly lost interest in both sports in recent years. I just don't enjoy watching UFC as much as boxing, though I admire it. As for boxing, part of my apathy exists because I don't have the time to watch sports anymore, part of it is a decline in skill (for various reasons, like dying amateur programs and the fact that too many fighters at the top level only fight twice a year), and part of it is due to this era of risk aversion. I'm tired of waiting years for fights to marinate. Also: too many bad decisions, PED use and general BS.

    Still, there are a few scenarios playing out that interest me. Welterweight, with Thurman, Spence, etc.. Loma is thrilling to watch... Terence Crawford, Mikey Garcia... Apparently Cruiserweight is really hot right now (@Arctodus has discussed it)? And of course the heavyweights are looking exciting again. I'm probably missing out on some others.

    I'm guessing tomorrow's fight is on PPV? To buy or not to buy: that is the question.

  • SharGuidesMyHandSharGuidesMyHand Member Posts: 2,403



    First big fight in awhile, thanks for reminding me about it.

    Ouch, I hope you didn't miss Sor Rungvisai vs. Estrada.

    There's also been some great action fights with Danny Garcia and Ray Beltran recently.

  • SharGuidesMyHandSharGuidesMyHand Member Posts: 2,403

    There's also a potentially significant crossroads fight on tonight's HBO broadcast - fast-rising prospect Bivol takes a BIG step up against veteran contender Sullivan Barrera at LHW. Bivol's people either must think their man is ready to explode, or that Barrera has some glaring weakness(es) that their man is sure to exploit. Either way, this fight has the potential to backfire spectacularly on them.

    OrlonKronsteen
  • SharGuidesMyHandSharGuidesMyHand Member Posts: 2,403

    Before TKOs were invented:


  • OrlonKronsteenOrlonKronsteen Member Posts: 597

    Before TKOs were invented:

    What a hard era - filled with hard people. And here I've been feeling sorry for myself because we haven't had enough snow days at work this year.

  • SharGuidesMyHandSharGuidesMyHand Member Posts: 2,403
    On Showtime, Andre Dirrell just got pounded into the first stoppage loss of his career. He looked the most hittable he ever has and should probably call it a career.

    Bivol-Barrera about to start on HBO.

    OrlonKronsteen
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 6,050
    edited March 2018
    Wilder/Ortiz are having a close match halfway through, with Ortiz winning the early rounds, but Wilder scoring a knockdown to close the gap.

    Wow....SAVAGE last minute of the 7th round, in which Ortiz unloaded on Wilder, and while he didn't drop him, Wilder barely made it out of the round. Wilder looks wobbly starting the 8th. He needs to survive this round to get another minute to get his legs back.

    Wilder basically takes the 8th off to survive. However, Ortiz has now basically punched himself out and looks severely winded going back to his corner. Wilder has taken his best barrage and survived. Quite the match here in the late rounds.

    Wilder definitely wins the 9th round with a series of combinations in the last 30 seconds. Ortiz is winning, but Wilder can easily win if he takes the last 3.

    Unreal....Wilder unloads a never-ending string of absolute haymakers to knock Ortiz out in the 10th. A fantastic heavyweight match, as good as it gets. At least among boxing fans, Wilder moved to the next level of stardom tonight.

    OrlonKronsteen
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 6,050
    edited March 2018
    Over on HBO in the main event, it doesn't appear Mikhalkin has anything at all for Kovalev. This fight was over after two rounds, barring some kind of miracle.

    6th round just ended, and there is a really good case to be made this fight needs to be stopped. Not particularly interesting or remotely competitive.

    Stoppage for Kovalev in the 7th, as Mikhalkin's face had been turned into hamburger.

    OrlonKronsteen
  • OrlonKronsteenOrlonKronsteen Member Posts: 597
    Wow, Canelo flunked a drug test. Positive test for clenbuterol.

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 6,050

    Wow, Canelo flunked a drug test. Positive test for clenbuterol.

    Apparently alot of Mexican athletes have had this substance found, supposedly because a large portion of meat in Mexico has trace amounts of it in it. Regardless, this doesn't seem like anything that will derail a rematch.

  • OrlonKronsteenOrlonKronsteen Member Posts: 597

    Wow, Canelo flunked a drug test. Positive test for clenbuterol.

    Apparently alot of Mexican athletes have had this substance found, supposedly because a large portion of meat in Mexico has trace amounts of it in it. Regardless, this doesn't seem like anything that will derail a rematch.
    That’s the excuse, but really it’s a commonly used PED. I agree it probably won’t derail the rematch, but it definitely affects Canelo’s legacy.

  • SharGuidesMyHandSharGuidesMyHand Member Posts: 2,403

    In honor of Saint Patrick's Day, here's colorized footage of likely the greatest Irish-American fighter of all time:


    OrlonKronsteen
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