Depends whether I'm thinking with my head or my heart.
The former says Spence should simply be too big, strong, and powerful for Mikey.
The latter says the way that Mikey has aggressively pursued this fight and the confidence he has shown indicate he must have some hidden insight into beating Spence.
I've seen plenty of times where being in Spence's shoes actually turned into a disadvantage - in other words, the bigger man thought he could win just on sheer size and strength, and failed to have a "Plan B" once that turned out to be not enough.
The deciding factors will be how well Mikey carries the extra weight and how much he brings his power up - neither of which we will know until he actually gets in the ring.
Yeah, it's pretty easy to gain weight, but gaining proportionate power is pretty hard, especially if your frame is maxed out in terms of bulking up. I think most people agree that not everyone has the same potential for size, and trying to gain weight once you're in the ball park of this is hard to make productive.
And he's also going to have to be able to take Spence's shots over 12 rounds, which few natural welters have been able to do, never mind a smaller guy moving up. Depending on styles, being the smaller guy can be the advantage, because you're quicker and can avoid being hit. The problem here is Spence has a viscous and sustained body attack. He's indefatigable. A great body puncher is not the style the smaller guy necessarily wants to face because he doesn't have to hit you clean to wear you down. Even taking those shots on the arms is punishing. As others have mentioned, obviously Mikey sees something and he has one of the highest ring IQs in boxing. The question is how accurate he is with his assessment, and even if he is, will it be enough. If he does win, it's going to be a monumental accomplishment. I think he's really going to have to have a strong start and really get Spence's respect so that Spence isn't in total hunt and destroy mode the whole fight.
Pretty good mini-tournament taking place at WW. Pac-Thurman has been made, while Spence is rumored to to face Shawn Porter in a partial unification in August.
Andy Ruiz has stopped Anthony Joshua in a huge upset. Wow. Anyone see this?
I did. Joshua was a great sport, but he was horrible tonight. Clearly not prepared. People are comparing it to Tyson/Douglas, but the more apt level of comparison is to Lewis/Rahman, in terms of the level of the upset. Joshua is most certainly NOT Tyson in his prime.
Are you familiar with Chris Arreola?? Because he reminds me of him. I mean, the guy looks like Butterbean. How good is he?? Good enough to knock Joshua down 4 times, and get back up after being knocked down himself. He had quicker hands than Joshua. He sure as hell wouldn't stand a chance against Wilder. But again, I don't think Anthony Joshua is that good. And even so, there is going to be a rematch in Britain based on what was said after the fight, and I expect Joshua (if he doesn't want to make himself into a complete laughingstock) will take care of business. Highlights:
Again, Anthony Joshua showed commendable sportsmanship after the loss, but the guy just flat-out gave up by continuing to turn to his corner when the ref was trying to see if he could keep going. Joshua just isn't very good. He isn't even an average heavyweight. He just happened to be champion. But this really has nothing to do with how good Ruiz is. He's the fighter they thought they were bringing in as a pushover. The real story here is that Anthony Joshua was pretty much exposed as a fraud.
I don't think Joshua should be considered a fraud, because you don't beat solid guys like Whyte, Parker, Povetkin and an admittedly faded Klitschko without having *some* ability.
I don't think he ever projected the same aura of invulnerability that Tyson did when he was on his championship run, but based on resume, he still should have been considered the number one guy at HW.
Fact is...appearances notwithstanding, Ruiz is pretty talented, and would likely be a handful for anyone in the division due to the fact that he probably has the fastest hands of anyone currently at heavyweight. That edge in hand-speed allowed him time Joshua after the latter had put him on the mat early in the third in order to return the favor. It probably allows him to stay with Fury and Wilder if he gets a chance to face them following the expected Ruiz-AJ rematch.
Nice to see a new player at HW...especially someone whose image runs counter to what is normally expected of HW champs.
I find this shocking, but obviously its not news that a fight doesn't always go to the fitter looking fighter, it goes to the better fighter generally, who is likely at a healthy weight for their body/build. Still, Ruiz does not look like a boxer any more than I do, so I find this amusing and disturbing at the same time. It feeds my latent delusions that I could be a decent amateur boxer, being 6'3 and 285lbs with a 42in waist, but this is nutso, and seeing this just makes it worse. :P I should maybe take it up for the fitness benefit, and in case I get jumped for being in the wrong area (and dressing weird, cuz I sure do). I'm big enough to attract attention in a bad way I find.
Still, I'm a bit surprised nobody has wondered (that I've seen) if the fight was at all manipulated. I kinda would have expected to hear that, since people are so conspiracy hungry these days. It's kinda refreshing that I haven't, especially with the new champ being Mexican.
Ruiz isn't the only skilled boxer in history who has been fat. And being fat doesn't mean that you can't have good cardio and stamina, contrary to popular opinion. Ruiz is in shape, even though he dosen't look like it. There are thousands of skinny people laughing at him who would be winded after 30 seconds of boxing. Ruiz can go 12 rounds, which most professional athletes couldn't even do. Some people just have slower metabolisms, or eat too much, etc... Generally, though, boxing should help you lose weight as it's a cardio sport. I say go for it, if you're interested! Taking head shots is brutal, though.
From what I've seen the Joshua/Ruiz fight looks on the up-and-up. The question you have to ask is: would the powers that be benefit from a fix? And the answer is no. Joshua's aura of invincibility -warranted or not- is gone, and superfights with Wilder and Fury have lost much of their luster now. A veritable fortune has been lost.
Wweeellll, I speak of getting jumped, because I did get jumped a few years back when I was anorexic and in shockingly poor health (I was mega stressed out, didn't sleep for 2 weeks straight, had to force myself to eat anything, got sick due to both these no doubt, lost some 40 lbs in a month), I weighed 170lbs, and while I was clearly stronger than the other guy by quite a bit, I was moving like a guy that hadn't slept in 2 weeks, and had just burned out his adrenaline reserves earlier that day, so he got in about 6 punches for each of my, and they were all with my weaker arm, but I knocked him down with most of my punches. I think he probably had a worse headache than me, but that convinced me I needed to improve my health. I immediately bought a huge bag of chips, which I ate, and drank a big glass of brandy, smoked a cigar, and called it a night for the first time in just over 2 weeks I slept, on a couch. It was awful, but I finally watched a few movies I'd been meaning to.
Anyways, I can take hits to the head I think, better than most. I carry heavy loads on my shoulders, 300bls logs sometimes, over a forest floor, so I've got a pretty solid core/neck I'd say. Actually, I'm shocked at how much muscle mass my body has been putting on over the last 8-10 years... I went from a very quick 350lb man (I could land 6 solid punches a second back then lol, I am much slower now I'd say) to a scrawny 170lb weirdo, to a 285lb man that still has a chest solidly bigger than his waist. *nods* Thats 115lbs gained, and only a waist gain of ~11 inches, maybe even 10. I need to do some serious jogging though before I'd try boxing, though I do lots of axe and heavy sword use, chopping down trees and splitting wood. I actually welded up a 20lb axe that's 5ft tall, a real beast to say the least.
I agree, it seems unlikely to be a fix, but usually a conspiracy minded brain can think up SOME manner in which somebody big benefited... 'who did the big money betters bet on I wonder?'
Yeah, tbh I came out of it (eventually) a much better person, better in nearly every way actually, from cooking to work ethic, though I suppose their are always drawbacks! I get stared at in public sometimes, which isn't all bad. You don't see too many people this big I suppose, but the funny part is I still feel I look small in the mirror. I mean, a decent 18 inch bicep is not small, and I've had it pumped up over that. I shudder to think what I'd actually think looks proper; It's like I'm possessed by a bodybuilder or strongman.
I've read before that Foreman was a fan of using an axe for training, and he sure had some firepower, so their might be something to the idea.
I'm going to have to watch the interview I saw with Ruiz on Youtube, I think Kimmel? I wonder if people think he's a bankable personality, because Trump crapping on Mexico has likely awakened a lot of sympathy for Mexico, and that might be significant, because Mexicans freaking love a good Mexican fighter, he's a national hero over there I expect. His odd looks might even help with that, a weird looking fighter, if he's got oodles of charisma, he could wake boxing up again even. Another skilled, ultra-fit looking fighter? Uh, sure, that's nice, but we've been seeing it forever now, sure the guys are getting bigger at heavy weight, but they're kinda similar looking at the top. This guy seems to break the mold a bit.
I mean, there is no way the fight was fixed. Joshua/Wilder was a possible PPV fight between two undefeated heavyweights that was blown to smithereens. The appeal of Ruiz as a draw is only there because he actually WON the fight. It's now organic, but it never would have been something the promoters would have planned because everyone involved thought he was a tomato can for Joshua to sleepwalk through on the way to a payday with Wilder.
Tyson Fury beats someone called Tony Schwartz in about a round and a half. Turns out he was the #56 ranked heavyweight in the world, and the fight lived up to all that would entail. I'm certain Fury has tougher sparring sessions on a regular basis than whatever this was. Hard to possibly gauge anything from this.
@GundanRTO Great to see, and they didn't wait too long for it to happen. I think Fury needs to shake off those knockdowns, too. Damn did he get rocked in that last round. I wonder who he'll fight next?
Pacquaio is fighting Thurman next Saturday, and while I sincerely hope Thurman wins simply for the good of the sport's future and not endlessly clinging to the last decade, I'm sort of afraid that he won't.
Former Olympic Gold Medalist Lightweight and Welterweight champion Pernell Whitaker died Sunday after being hit by a car in a traffic accident.
In the 80's and early 90's, there was no better boxer; he was virtually impossible to catch with a clean punch and could string long combinations to the head and body after he made his opponent miss.
The proto-Mayweather, and probably my favorite boxer of the past 30 years. Whitaker was the pound for pound king when he fought an undefeated De La Hoya in '97. And look.....I'm not gonna say he was "robbed", but Whitaker won that fight. The score cards were absurd. He significantly outlanded him and scored the only knockdown. De La Hoya promised a rematch, but then he and Bob Arum ended all chance of it. De La Hoya remained a superstar, and Whitaker's career fell apart.
...And against Ramirez the first time around. A strong case could be made that Whitaker should have been undefeated up to the final two fights of his career.
Keith Thurman was easily winning Round 1 vs Manny and then got caught with about 30 seconds left with a shot that dropped him momentarily and stole the first as a 10-8. We'll see how he recovers.
Lots of action in Round 2 but Pacquiao wins this one as well, now up 3 on the cards and Thurman looks demoralized, though not hurt.
Manny is not remotely concerned with Thurman's power. Manny wins the third as well for a shut-out for the first 25% of the fight. Thurman had the first part of the 4th then lost it. Manny is easily winning the cards at this point.
Thurman wins Round 5 but has a ton of work to do. Thurman looks great for the first 90 seconds of each round then collapses in the back half. Finally puts together a full round and also wins 6. 58-55 Manny at the halfway point.
I think Thurman also wins the 7th, and Thurman is now low-key back in this thing. Manny wins the 8th and that might be too much to overcome. Could easily see this being a controversial decision on the cards as the punches landed are nearly identical.
96-93 Pacquiao after 10, but if Thurman can take the last two rounds this could go either way.
105-103 going into the 12th. Manny should win this fight, but if it DOESN'T it's not gonna be the robbery most will say it is.
I think Manny wins 115-112, but who knows how these cards come in........
Manny wins a split decision, with one judge giving it 114-113 Thurman and the other two having my score of 115-112. Probably the best cards we have seen in a big fight in some time.
Looks like two of the judges agree with your card.
Edit: wish I had seen it now.
I didn't think it was as good as it sounds. Thurman is like everyone else Manny has fought in the last 3 or 4 years, overhyped and nowhere near as good as the previous generation. Put him in the ring against Terrance Crawford and I think we have an entirely different story. Now, if Manny won THAT fight, it would be time to re-evaluate his legacy. But I honestly have expected him to win every one of these fights on what almost seems like a retirement tour because his opponents wouldn't have even been able to sniff these top spots a decade ago.
Thurman is like everyone else Manny has fought in the last 3 or 4 years, overhyped and nowhere near as good as the previous generation.
I don't entirely agree with this. I do agree that this era is watered down - but while Thurman is surely no Wilfred Benitez, I still think he's an excellent fighter. I do think this adds to Manny's legacy (assuming he wasn't using PEDs). I do wonder if Thurman's inactivity and injuries hampered him - what do you think?
I agree with you totally that Crawford and Spence are different animals and I'd favour them heavily against Manny at this point. I suspect Manny will fight one of the two, but I wish he'd just retire. His legacy was cemented long before he fought Thurman, and by gosh he should have enough money. Hopefully he'll put some of his purse from this fight into savings.
Comments
Depends whether I'm thinking with my head or my heart.
The former says Spence should simply be too big, strong, and powerful for Mikey.
The latter says the way that Mikey has aggressively pursued this fight and the confidence he has shown indicate he must have some hidden insight into beating Spence.
I've seen plenty of times where being in Spence's shoes actually turned into a disadvantage - in other words, the bigger man thought he could win just on sheer size and strength, and failed to have a "Plan B" once that turned out to be not enough.
The deciding factors will be how well Mikey carries the extra weight and how much he brings his power up - neither of which we will know until he actually gets in the ring.
I did. Joshua was a great sport, but he was horrible tonight. Clearly not prepared. People are comparing it to Tyson/Douglas, but the more apt level of comparison is to Lewis/Rahman, in terms of the level of the upset. Joshua is most certainly NOT Tyson in his prime.
Are you familiar with Chris Arreola?? Because he reminds me of him. I mean, the guy looks like Butterbean. How good is he?? Good enough to knock Joshua down 4 times, and get back up after being knocked down himself. He had quicker hands than Joshua. He sure as hell wouldn't stand a chance against Wilder. But again, I don't think Anthony Joshua is that good. And even so, there is going to be a rematch in Britain based on what was said after the fight, and I expect Joshua (if he doesn't want to make himself into a complete laughingstock) will take care of business. Highlights:
Again, Anthony Joshua showed commendable sportsmanship after the loss, but the guy just flat-out gave up by continuing to turn to his corner when the ref was trying to see if he could keep going. Joshua just isn't very good. He isn't even an average heavyweight. He just happened to be champion. But this really has nothing to do with how good Ruiz is. He's the fighter they thought they were bringing in as a pushover. The real story here is that Anthony Joshua was pretty much exposed as a fraud.
I don't think he ever projected the same aura of invulnerability that Tyson did when he was on his championship run, but based on resume, he still should have been considered the number one guy at HW.
Fact is...appearances notwithstanding, Ruiz is pretty talented, and would likely be a handful for anyone in the division due to the fact that he probably has the fastest hands of anyone currently at heavyweight. That edge in hand-speed allowed him time Joshua after the latter had put him on the mat early in the third in order to return the favor. It probably allows him to stay with Fury and Wilder if he gets a chance to face them following the expected Ruiz-AJ rematch.
Nice to see a new player at HW...especially someone whose image runs counter to what is normally expected of HW champs.
Still, I'm a bit surprised nobody has wondered (that I've seen) if the fight was at all manipulated. I kinda would have expected to hear that, since people are so conspiracy hungry these days. It's kinda refreshing that I haven't, especially with the new champ being Mexican.
From what I've seen the Joshua/Ruiz fight looks on the up-and-up. The question you have to ask is: would the powers that be benefit from a fix? And the answer is no. Joshua's aura of invincibility -warranted or not- is gone, and superfights with Wilder and Fury have lost much of their luster now. A veritable fortune has been lost.
Anyways, I can take hits to the head I think, better than most. I carry heavy loads on my shoulders, 300bls logs sometimes, over a forest floor, so I've got a pretty solid core/neck I'd say. Actually, I'm shocked at how much muscle mass my body has been putting on over the last 8-10 years... I went from a very quick 350lb man (I could land 6 solid punches a second back then lol, I am much slower now I'd say) to a scrawny 170lb weirdo, to a 285lb man that still has a chest solidly bigger than his waist. *nods* Thats 115lbs gained, and only a waist gain of ~11 inches, maybe even 10. I need to do some serious jogging though before I'd try boxing, though I do lots of axe and heavy sword use, chopping down trees and splitting wood. I actually welded up a 20lb axe that's 5ft tall, a real beast to say the least.
I agree, it seems unlikely to be a fix, but usually a conspiracy minded brain can think up SOME manner in which somebody big benefited... 'who did the big money betters bet on I wonder?'
I've read before that Foreman was a fan of using an axe for training, and he sure had some firepower, so their might be something to the idea.
I'm going to have to watch the interview I saw with Ruiz on Youtube, I think Kimmel? I wonder if people think he's a bankable personality, because Trump crapping on Mexico has likely awakened a lot of sympathy for Mexico, and that might be significant, because Mexicans freaking love a good Mexican fighter, he's a national hero over there I expect. His odd looks might even help with that, a weird looking fighter, if he's got oodles of charisma, he could wake boxing up again even. Another skilled, ultra-fit looking fighter? Uh, sure, that's nice, but we've been seeing it forever now, sure the guys are getting bigger at heavy weight, but they're kinda similar looking at the top. This guy seems to break the mold a bit.
That apparently is scheduled to take place Feb 22, 2020-provided Fury and Wilder win their next fights.
Former Olympic Gold Medalist Lightweight and Welterweight champion Pernell Whitaker died Sunday after being hit by a car in a traffic accident.
In the 80's and early 90's, there was no better boxer; he was virtually impossible to catch with a clean punch and could string long combinations to the head and body after he made his opponent miss.
Lots of action in Round 2 but Pacquiao wins this one as well, now up 3 on the cards and Thurman looks demoralized, though not hurt.
Manny is not remotely concerned with Thurman's power. Manny wins the third as well for a shut-out for the first 25% of the fight. Thurman had the first part of the 4th then lost it. Manny is easily winning the cards at this point.
Thurman wins Round 5 but has a ton of work to do. Thurman looks great for the first 90 seconds of each round then collapses in the back half. Finally puts together a full round and also wins 6. 58-55 Manny at the halfway point.
I think Thurman also wins the 7th, and Thurman is now low-key back in this thing. Manny wins the 8th and that might be too much to overcome. Could easily see this being a controversial decision on the cards as the punches landed are nearly identical.
96-93 Pacquiao after 10, but if Thurman can take the last two rounds this could go either way.
105-103 going into the 12th. Manny should win this fight, but if it DOESN'T it's not gonna be the robbery most will say it is.
I think Manny wins 115-112, but who knows how these cards come in........
Manny wins a split decision, with one judge giving it 114-113 Thurman and the other two having my score of 115-112. Probably the best cards we have seen in a big fight in some time.
Edit: wish I had seen it now.
I didn't think it was as good as it sounds. Thurman is like everyone else Manny has fought in the last 3 or 4 years, overhyped and nowhere near as good as the previous generation. Put him in the ring against Terrance Crawford and I think we have an entirely different story. Now, if Manny won THAT fight, it would be time to re-evaluate his legacy. But I honestly have expected him to win every one of these fights on what almost seems like a retirement tour because his opponents wouldn't have even been able to sniff these top spots a decade ago.
I don't entirely agree with this. I do agree that this era is watered down - but while Thurman is surely no Wilfred Benitez, I still think he's an excellent fighter. I do think this adds to Manny's legacy (assuming he wasn't using PEDs). I do wonder if Thurman's inactivity and injuries hampered him - what do you think?
I agree with you totally that Crawford and Spence are different animals and I'd favour them heavily against Manny at this point. I suspect Manny will fight one of the two, but I wish he'd just retire. His legacy was cemented long before he fought Thurman, and by gosh he should have enough money. Hopefully he'll put some of his purse from this fight into savings.