@RavenX I wish I could remember the titles. One in particular that I remember fondly followed the fortress commander from the Dragons of Autumn Twilight book. It also has the red dragon in it.
I always wished there was an option to just ignore them both and deal directly with the cowled wizards. Maybe get them to admit that Irenicus has control of spellhold so they should just get out of your way and let you go after him. Or just crush the wizards and find a ship on your own.
The game tend to push the player to join the Shadow Thief, as if that's the canon path. That's reinforced by the canon party, that besides yoshimo, prefer to join the thieves than bodhi.
There's also no reason or benefit from a old player perspective to join bodhi, the 5.000 gold drop bonus are get anyway by any faction that you choose and we're already compromissed with the thiefs, not to mention that the Shadow Thiefs can help you against Bodhi in the last fight on chapter 6.
The main issue however, is that Bodhi is playing the fool with the main character, and after the first gameplay, we all know that, unlike the shadow thiefs, that help us for self-interest, but they truly help us. So i believe people tend to choose the Thiefs over Bodhi cos they don prefer to know that they're being used by a group that share a common enemy than be played the fool by that enemy.
When i want to make a different game i join with Bodhi. Today, after more than 100 (or 150, really don't know, played this game compulsive for more or less 12 years) BG II playgames, i really don't mind joining either group.
@RavenX I wish I could remember the titles. One in particular that I remember fondly followed the fortress commander from the Dragons of Autumn Twilight book. It also has the red dragon in it.
I seem to recall something about that. Is the commander a Draconian per chance?
Technically, I side with the Shadow Thieves, but I do what I can to damage both factions, my focus being primarily on the vampires. Evil must be purged.
@RavenX I wish I could remember the titles. One in particular that I remember fondly followed the fortress commander from the Dragons of Autumn Twilight book. It also has the red dragon in it.
I seem to recall something about that. Is the commander a Draconian per chance?
I don't want to sidetrack the thread, but anyone else who is curious what the answer is, I did some searching and found the title of the book, "http://www.amazon.com/Before-Dragonlance-Villains-Series-Volume/dp/1560765836" The person is Dragon Highlord Verminaard, leader of the Red Dragon Army, and priest of the evil goddess, Takhisis. The book is well written and Verminaard closely embodies the type of character I enjoy playing in fantasy RPGs, both computer and pen and paper. I'm very excited about the new Blackguard class in Enhanced Edition.
Neither groups are really good to have around, so Bodhi is the best route. (Although Mazzy complains. )
Keldorn leaves the party if you join Bodhi, and i'm pretty sure that in her 2° mission, the one where you can choose the hero path or the bloodthirsty path, if you choose the later other NPCs also leave the party as well.
Neither I'd destroy both factions once my goals are met. The way I see it I'm killing two birds with 6 stones(party) I hated working with the Shadow Thieves and Bodhi (Her for obvious spoiler reasons)
I must be in the minority but as a 14 year old seeing Bodhis bad ass portrait I sided with her trying to recruit her. Also the thieves just annoy me in general.
As an Undead Hunter it is my responsibility to kill Bodhi and her vampires just have to make sure I have a protection from charm and my Undead Hunter can pretty much solo the vamp lair.
I tried joining with Bodhi on my first playthrough, mostly because she offered a lower price than the Shadow Thieves initially... Though they do drop it to the same amount if you go talk to them again making that offer pointless.
As an Undead Hunter it is my responsibility to kill Bodhi and her vampires just have to make sure I have a protection from charm and my Undead Hunter can pretty much solo the vamp lair.
Be careful about admitting that. Some people on this forum will call that cheese.
1. Side Vampires - you'll gain all the Shadow Thieves Guild's stuff, just from their corpses. 2. After Underdark you'll get the same, but from Vampires.
The only problem may occur is thief NPC Stronghold (if you're playing a thief and decide to rule your own guild).
I'm a rogue-type player by disposition, which rather narrows my options here I suppose. I love the suave gentleman thief stereotype, and actually the leadership of the Shadow Thieves is really well voice-acted in BG2.
That said, I think I'd play the Bodhi path in any non-rogue playthrough. Both for the variety and because it's a much darker, more insidious, more plot-relevant route - and liable to get better and more interesting reactions from your companions along the way.
I'd certainly want to put off fighting with the vamps for as long as possible if I were playing a relatively weak class, or one I'm not too good at getting the most out of. That level drain ability still makes me shudder.
Tell me about it. I still remember my first playthrough: "Hah, this will be no problem with my level 12 party. I mean level 7. Make that level 4. #&%$." Anyway, that's what Linvail's amulet is for.
Bodhi is obviously the logical choice for a male Charname. If a male Charname is to be deceived and used, let the deceiver and user at least be a woman. If the male Charname does not fancy women, he would be hit by a lightning and side with Bodhi anyway. In the case of a female Charname, Shadow Thieves are an option. Though, that said, they are way too mainstream for a self-respecting female Charname to side with. Also, female Charnames are often curious to find out who Bodhi's stylist is.
I've never once sided with the Shadow Thieves. I don't like Thieves Guilds, and I don't like Assassin's Guilds; if forced to choose sides, I would go with the Assassin's Guild, since Grandfathers and Grandmothers of Assassins are not people you'd want to screw around with. In addition, Assassins are better at blending in, what with their P&P disguise abilities. If the Assassin's Guild has vampires and a half-drow ally way down the hill, I...will side with the Assassin's Guild, and be their living agent, partially because I would cry like a big, smelly baby if I got on their bad side. What makes me choose Bodhi, is that I think undead are awesome. I suppose I'll do a token Shadow Thieves run one of these days, if only to shut Mazzy up so I can get something out of that friendship mod I have going with her...
I would have preferred a "good" option, such as, I don't know, the nearby elves? "Ohh, you're after Irenicus -- clown who tried to play the Nice Guy card with our Queen? Yeah, let me find one of his old belongings to pull a divination. Uh, uh, huh, well, looks like you're going to need to find some divination components for us. Here's how much you'll need to give me, and in addition, you'll need to find 30 Hillsbrad Farmer's Skulls some other things for me.". It'd make so much more sense for a Paladin to side with them, over Pretty Undead Elf Lady with her room full of spikes and a drainage system that gives way to a pool of blood, or the Shadow Thugs with their torture room. That ain't gonna happen, what with contractual hand-tying, but one can dream!
I would have preferred a "good" option, such as, I don't know, the nearby elves? "Ohh, you're after Irenicus -- clown who tried to play the Nice Guy card with our Queen? Yeah, let me find one of his old belongings to pull a divination. Uh, uh, huh, well, looks like you're going to need to find some divination components for us. Here's how much you'll need to give me, and in addition, you'll need to find 30 Hillsbrad Farmer's Skulls some other things for me.". It'd make so much more sense for a Paladin to side with them, over Pretty Undead Elf Lady with her room full of spikes and a drainage system that gives way to a pool of blood, or the Shadow Thugs with their torture room. That ain't gonna happen, what with contractual hand-tying, but one can dream!
I get what you mean. That said, I honestly don't mind being funnelled into a difficult, 'what's the least worst' choice, either. It's trickier and shadier, forces you - as so many are doing on this thread - to find creative reasoning to justify cooperation with a gang of murderous morally bankrupt unscrupulous thugs.
I get what you mean. That said, I honestly don't mind being funnelled into a difficult, 'what's the least worst' choice, either. It's trickier and shadier, forces you - as so many are doing on this thread - to find creative reasoning to justify cooperation with a gang of murderous morally bankrupt unscrupulous thugs.
I frankly liked that, myself. It was realistic; sometimes there isn't a better option. You either hold your nose and move forward, or stand on your principles and let the bad guy win. It either doesn't bother a neutral/evil CHARNAME, or makes for a great roleplaying opportunity for a good CHARNAME. I always assumed my CHARNAME went a little bit crazy/not overly concerned with morals after being tortured, having two of his friends killed, and loosing his closest friend to a shadowy organization; He'd have sided with Bhaal himself at that point.
I would have preferred a "good" option, such as, I don't know, the nearby elves? "Ohh, you're after Irenicus -- clown who tried to play the Nice Guy card with our Queen? Yeah, let me find one of his old belongings to pull a divination. Uh, uh, huh, well, looks like you're going to need to find some divination components for us. Here's how much you'll need to give me, and in addition, you'll need to find 30 Hillsbrad Farmer's Skulls some other things for me.". It'd make so much more sense for a Paladin to side with them, over Pretty Undead Elf Lady with her room full of spikes and a drainage system that gives way to a pool of blood, or the Shadow Thugs with their torture room. That ain't gonna happen, what with contractual hand-tying, but one can dream!
I get what you mean. That said, I honestly don't mind being funnelled into a difficult, 'what's the least worst' choice, either. It's trickier and shadier, forces you - as so many are doing on this thread - to find creative reasoning to justify cooperation with a gang of murderous morally bankrupt unscrupulous thugs.
Very truth. Very truth. "So, CHARNAME, doesn't it bother you that you're sort of breaking your oath working with these guys?" "Sit ya down, hun, and lemme tell you about my family tree."
But seriously, I can't help being an evil bastard. I get to be a grade-A douche with no repercussions. I love it. Nothing like real life. I like playing as the vampires to further my own evil, and I figure the best way to do that is to side with the undead and by destroying two organizations that could potentially stand in my way. I also feel like a complete badass by wiping out both sides. I played a good party once, and I got bored. If I wanted to be polite and help people, I wouldn't be playing BG. I'm trying to become the goddamn Lord of Murder, I don't really care what people think of me. And I just think the vampires are fun.
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There's also no reason or benefit from a old player perspective to join bodhi, the 5.000 gold drop bonus are get anyway by any faction that you choose and we're already compromissed with the thiefs, not to mention that the Shadow Thiefs can help you against Bodhi in the last fight on chapter 6.
The main issue however, is that Bodhi is playing the fool with the main character, and after the first gameplay, we all know that, unlike the shadow thiefs, that help us for self-interest, but they truly help us. So i believe people tend to choose the Thiefs over Bodhi cos they don prefer to know that they're being used by a group that share a common enemy than be played the fool by that enemy.
When i want to make a different game i join with Bodhi. Today, after more than 100 (or 150, really don't know, played this game compulsive for more or less 12 years) BG II playgames, i really don't mind joining either group.
Vamp it up! Vamp it up! Vamp it up!
2. After Underdark you'll get the same, but from Vampires.
The only problem may occur is thief NPC Stronghold (if you're playing a thief and decide to rule your own guild).
That said, I think I'd play the Bodhi path in any non-rogue playthrough. Both for the variety and because it's a much darker, more insidious, more plot-relevant route - and liable to get better and more interesting reactions from your companions along the way.
I'd certainly want to put off fighting with the vamps for as long as possible if I were playing a relatively weak class, or one I'm not too good at getting the most out of. That level drain ability still makes me shudder.
In the case of a female Charname, Shadow Thieves are an option. Though, that said, they are way too mainstream for a self-respecting female Charname to side with. Also, female Charnames are often curious to find out who Bodhi's stylist is.
What makes me choose Bodhi, is that I think undead are awesome. I suppose I'll do a token Shadow Thieves run one of these days, if only to shut Mazzy up so I can get something out of that friendship mod I have going with her...
I would have preferred a "good" option, such as, I don't know, the nearby elves? "Ohh, you're after Irenicus -- clown who tried to play the Nice Guy card with our Queen? Yeah, let me find one of his old belongings to pull a divination. Uh, uh, huh, well, looks like you're going to need to find some divination components for us. Here's how much you'll need to give me, and in addition, you'll need to find 30 Hillsbrad Farmer's Skulls some other things for me.". It'd make so much more sense for a Paladin to side with them, over Pretty Undead Elf Lady with her room full of spikes and a drainage system that gives way to a pool of blood, or the Shadow Thugs with their torture room. That ain't gonna happen, what with contractual hand-tying, but one can dream!
"So, CHARNAME, doesn't it bother you that you're sort of breaking your oath working with these guys?"
"Sit ya down, hun, and lemme tell you about my family tree."
But seriously, I can't help being an evil bastard. I get to be a grade-A douche with no repercussions. I love it. Nothing like real life. I like playing as the vampires to further my own evil, and I figure the best way to do that is to side with the undead and by destroying two organizations that could potentially stand in my way. I also feel like a complete badass by wiping out both sides. I played a good party once, and I got bored. If I wanted to be polite and help people, I wouldn't be playing BG. I'm trying to become the goddamn Lord of Murder, I don't really care what people think of me. And I just think the vampires are fun.