Loot!!! Elven chain for my fighter mage if im playing one, but mostly the Rifthome Axe +3 cause i normally run Korgan as my main ranged dmg dealer who doubles as a squishy mage protector.
I often play SCS2, so siding with Bodhi lets me avoid fighting the vampires. But I also often play with Mazzy and Keldorn, more for their personalities than anything else, so sometimes I have to side with the Shadow Thieves, to keep Mazzy and Keldorn from leaving.
Honestly, I don't see what's so appallingly, unacceptably evil about the vampires as opposed to the Shadow Thieves. Both of them are clearly vicious, self-interested organizations. Gaelan Bayle and Aran Linvail are friendly faces, but the Shadow Thieves are also full of people like Mae'var.
I play Neutral Good characters most of the time. Why would they pass up an opportunity to take down a crime syndicate? Why would they pass up an opportunity to take down a nest of vampires? The biggest difference is that siding with Bodhi lets you delay fighting vampires until you're ready to take them on.
siding with thieves as i mostly always do is much more better cause renal stays in guild and at chapter 6 after u come from underdark u can kill him and get his boots of speed so at tob u can have boots of speed for everyone (dont do that in chapter 2. u know 1 single hit gameover) siding with bodhi the bitch makes ur progress easier towards brynlaw chapter and u can get a few extra items, +3 throwing axe and ring of djinni. well u can get amulet of power and mace of disruption in both alternative ways (1 is early, the other is late of chapter3 dependin who u side with) but come on dont u guys cry for "oh my god, level draining vampires. I'm gonna wet my sexy pants". I have more than 2m experience before paying 15k gold (imported from bg1) and with amulet of power, u can terminate with ur main'daystar, "the vampire terminator". In conclusion: ok rifthome axe and ring of djinni may be good yet boots of speed is best item in the game so SIDE WITH THE THIEVES. Get a cleric, equip your daystar, cast negative plane protection, turn undeads and smack the vampires. They are the devils "U KNOW".
...because the Shadow Thieves are the ones that actually kidnaps you and delivers you to Irenicus. I NEVER let go of a slight, if it is grave enough.
Also, I have in some runs initially sided with the shadow thieves, until I find that gross effing torture master in their basement. I murder him on the spot, then change my mind about my allegiances.
I forced myself to try the Bodhi option one game to see the game content, will never do it again.
First off, Gaelan Bayle and his little boy are adorable and I just cannot bring myself to betray the two of them. No matter how rotten some of the other shadow thieves are.
Second, even if you play the most cynical selfish bastard ever, Bodhi just doesn't offer a reasonable deal. I have nothing against vampires as such, but her dialogue at the graveyard is not convincing at all. She admits she is involved with my biggest enemy Irenicus, but will not explain why or how. She doesn't really come up with any good reason why you should still work with her, beyond "thieves can't be trusted". Uh huh.
with the exception of the one time i sided with bodi [ i did something similar with the legion in new vegas in a throw away run.] just to see what it was like i mostly side with the shadow thieves.
I usually play a neutral character and Bodhi is clearly the best choice....
First you try to escape a house of horrors... You find shadow thieves and just when you're most scared and vulnerable, do they help you? Nope...they frickin attack you. Next instead of the guild leader showing some respect, he sends Mr. Cooo crazy and a little child to play on your heart strings. He tells you that they'll aid you, but if you try taking a few items from the bookshelves upstairs to go to the good cause, they'll try to kill you AGAIN. So then you do some work for the Shadow thieves in the docks, using you as a tool to murder their competition, including doing jobs for the truly dispicable Edwin. With all the coin they pay you, it soons becomes crystal clear that these bastards have plenty of coin and don't even need your money..so you're running around while they laugh at you and your sister is in gods knows what kind of peril. They continue to string you along with unnecessary errands, delaying you deeply without cause. If you explore their HQ, you find horrific torture devices. If you side with them, not only do they want you to destroy an entire vampire coven (who are far too strong if you're rushing to save Imoen), but they'll eventually fob you off with an outsider they know little about, except that he can't be trusted and an incompetent "bodyguard" who can't even check your food isn't posioned.
Now Bodhi... she's honest from the start that she's an evil vampire, she claims to have very close connections to the person you seek. Her guild only appear to do and want harm against the shadow thieves, not innocents. And she offers you a choice in doing something evil or a rescue mission. Most importantly she provides a quicker route to save your sister, an easier enemy to deal with and less coin required (until the thieves get desperate).
[And yes, the above is intended to be an ott amusing rant]
Correct me if I remember this wrong, but isn't Bodhi actually the one who tells you that Gaelan Bayle represents the Shadow thieves? While he's more like "yeah, I know some fine dudes who can help you!" until you cough up the money.
I mean, the Shadow thieves are like a Mexican drug cartel turned up to eleven. So Bodhi doesn't just say that she has valuable inside information on Irenicus, that she's looking for him too and that she'll offer you a cheaper deal. She also points out that, by the way, those other guys are the freaking Gulf Cartel. I usually don't side with Bodhi, but I think it makes sense that characters of any alignment would prefer to work for her in that moment.
@JoenSo From what I understand, the shadow thieves as shown in game, are more neutral than evil. They steal, they trade illegal goods and drugs, they have an organised prostition thing going on in the docks. But you never once encounter them attacking people in the streets (like you constantly see Bohdi's people doing), they don't deal in slavery (the slavers are their own organization), and Arkanis Gath even patrols certain districts at night specifically to hunt the vampires that are killing people. They definitely aren't good, but they are certainly the lesser of two evils.
Meanwhile the vampires slaughter wantonly and have literal blood pool parties.
They also kill a whole lot of their own members, murder anyone considered a rival/threat and have no problems with torture. As we see in Irenicus' dungeon, they will happily kill any bystander too, just in case.
And Bodhi's people only attack the Shadow thieves in the streets, right?
I do think they are the lesser evil, but not by much. And I wrote my previous post with the perspective of Charname in mind. Charname might have heard of all the nasty stuff the Shadow thieves do (as Bodhi implies you have). So maybe you prefer to take a chance with the lesser known evil instead.
Siding with both can be justified by character, exept maybe by paladin. Anyway most of runs i side with Shadow Thieves because attacking their base is just so annoying comparing for enjoyable attack on Bodhi base.
@JoenSo They kill torture their own members that break their rules (like killing other thieves). They don't attack or kill law abiding citizens (after all, who else will tehy steal from). They essentially have an agreement with the city council and only target a certain number of people/numbers stolen. They have to regulate themselves very tightly to avoid bringing down the wrath of the guard or even the paladin order right in the same town. They are, ironically, more lawful than the thieves guild in baldur's gate. Note that the brief survivors in Irenicus' dungeon just witnessed everthing from dppelgangers, to murderous clones, to golems, to awe inspiring acts of magical destruction. Why would trust some random person who comes to them claims to be friendly?
Also note that all the thieves that aren't blatantly killed in the streets (with Irenicus even noting that Bohdi is killing FAR more people than she should), all of the capture thieves are being sent alive to Irenicus. So, where do they get all the blood for the multiple blood fountains from? There is a general curfew going on in Athkatla because of how dangerous it is to be out after dark now, BECAUSE OF THE VAMPIRES.
I'd say that Bohdi makes the shadow thieves look downright chaotic good by comparison.
@megamike15 That path unnerved me almost as much as Bodhi. You aren't siding with the city guards, but a rogue noble who has bribed enough people to turn a blind eye to wanton slaughter. Bodhi and her ilk definitely deserve it, but most of the thieve's guilds members are guilty of nothing worse than pickpocketing or fencing items. And you are expected to run in and indiscriminantly slaughter EVERYONE.
Just for thought, IIRC, two of the options given in the thief stronghold that one gets, involve possible instructions for operatives that provide 'pest removal' (assassinations), and slave trafficking. The trafficking if I recall is as a middle-man service (not exactly good folks here), but, being as Renal stock's the guild for PC in advance of handing over control, he sure as heck as a crew that is involved in more than purse lifting. I always thought the vamps were a little more straight-forward in there intentions, warnings, and conversations. I'd trust a vamp to be a vamp but the shadow thieves, pheh, no telling if they would shank ya from one minute to the next. For that matter, in BG1, if you turn down the chance to assist Alatos, he will attack immediately. If Bodhi's offer is turned down,well, she at least gives you fair warning and the heads up that next meeting will not go well. Still, as far as siding with one over the other just depends on my PC's nature at the time, as I like both options.
Bear in mind that Charname doesn't know the vast majority of these details until after s/he chooses a side. The only information that Charname has about the Shadow Thieves comes from the Mae'Var questline, which can look better or worse depending on whether you think Renal or Mae'Var better represents the guild, and all Charname knows about Bodhi's guild is that they've been killing the Shadow Thieves--not killing random citizens.
It does feel like a Godfather kind of situation where Sollozo/Bodhi shows up from nowhere and throws a monkey wrench into the established order of the underworld.
Comments
Especially as a lawful good character, I couldn't see myself siding with rogues or vampires.
Elven chain for my fighter mage if im playing one, but mostly the Rifthome Axe +3 cause i normally run Korgan as my main ranged dmg dealer who doubles as a squishy mage protector.
Honestly, I don't see what's so appallingly, unacceptably evil about the vampires as opposed to the Shadow Thieves. Both of them are clearly vicious, self-interested organizations. Gaelan Bayle and Aran Linvail are friendly faces, but the Shadow Thieves are also full of people like Mae'var.
I play Neutral Good characters most of the time. Why would they pass up an opportunity to take down a crime syndicate? Why would they pass up an opportunity to take down a nest of vampires? The biggest difference is that siding with Bodhi lets you delay fighting vampires until you're ready to take them on.
siding with bodhi the bitch makes ur progress easier towards brynlaw chapter and u can get a few extra items, +3 throwing axe and ring of djinni.
well u can get amulet of power and mace of disruption in both alternative ways (1 is early, the other is late of chapter3 dependin who u side with) but come on dont u guys cry for "oh my god, level draining vampires. I'm gonna wet my sexy pants". I have more than 2m experience before paying 15k gold (imported from bg1) and with amulet of power, u can terminate with ur main'daystar, "the vampire terminator".
In conclusion: ok rifthome axe and ring of djinni may be good yet boots of speed is best item in the game so SIDE WITH THE THIEVES. Get a cleric, equip your daystar, cast negative plane protection, turn undeads and smack the vampires. They are the devils "U KNOW".
Also, I have in some runs initially sided with the shadow thieves, until I find that gross effing torture master in their basement. I murder him on the spot, then change my mind about my allegiances.
First off, Gaelan Bayle and his little boy are adorable and I just cannot bring myself to betray the two of them. No matter how rotten some of the other shadow thieves are.
Second, even if you play the most cynical selfish bastard ever, Bodhi just doesn't offer a reasonable deal. I have nothing against vampires as such, but her dialogue at the graveyard is not convincing at all. She admits she is involved with my biggest enemy Irenicus, but will not explain why or how. She doesn't really come up with any good reason why you should still work with her, beyond "thieves can't be trusted". Uh huh.
First you try to escape a house of horrors... You find shadow thieves and just when you're most scared and vulnerable, do they help you? Nope...they frickin attack you.
Next instead of the guild leader showing some respect, he sends Mr. Cooo crazy and a little child to play on your heart strings. He tells you that they'll aid you, but if you try taking a few items from the bookshelves upstairs to go to the good cause, they'll try to kill you AGAIN.
So then you do some work for the Shadow thieves in the docks, using you as a tool to murder their competition, including doing jobs for the truly dispicable Edwin. With all the coin they pay you, it soons becomes crystal clear that these bastards have plenty of coin and don't even need your money..so you're running around while they laugh at you and your sister is in gods knows what kind of peril.
They continue to string you along with unnecessary errands, delaying you deeply without cause. If you explore their HQ, you find horrific torture devices. If you side with them, not only do they want you to destroy an entire vampire coven (who are far too strong if you're rushing to save Imoen), but they'll eventually fob you off with an outsider they know little about, except that he can't be trusted and an incompetent "bodyguard" who can't even check your food isn't posioned.
Now Bodhi... she's honest from the start that she's an evil vampire, she claims to have very close connections to the person you seek. Her guild only appear to do and want harm against the shadow thieves, not innocents. And she offers you a choice in doing something evil or a rescue mission. Most importantly she provides a quicker route to save your sister, an easier enemy to deal with and less coin required (until the thieves get desperate).
[And yes, the above is intended to be an ott amusing rant]
Well, this one sure looks trustworthy. I guess I can see why Abdel Adrian sided with them...
It's a picture of Vampirella btw.
I mean, the Shadow thieves are like a Mexican drug cartel turned up to eleven. So Bodhi doesn't just say that she has valuable inside information on Irenicus, that she's looking for him too and that she'll offer you a cheaper deal. She also points out that, by the way, those other guys are the freaking Gulf Cartel. I usually don't side with Bodhi, but I think it makes sense that characters of any alignment would prefer to work for her in that moment.
Meanwhile the vampires slaughter wantonly and have literal blood pool parties.
And Bodhi's people only attack the Shadow thieves in the streets, right?
I do think they are the lesser evil, but not by much. And I wrote my previous post with the perspective of Charname in mind. Charname might have heard of all the nasty stuff the Shadow thieves do (as Bodhi implies you have). So maybe you prefer to take a chance with the lesser known evil instead.
Also note that all the thieves that aren't blatantly killed in the streets (with Irenicus even noting that Bohdi is killing FAR more people than she should), all of the capture thieves are being sent alive to Irenicus. So, where do they get all the blood for the multiple blood fountains from? There is a general curfew going on in Athkatla because of how dangerous it is to be out after dark now, BECAUSE OF THE VAMPIRES.
I'd say that Bohdi makes the shadow thieves look downright chaotic good by comparison.
@megamike15 That path unnerved me almost as much as Bodhi. You aren't siding with the city guards, but a rogue noble who has bribed enough people to turn a blind eye to wanton slaughter. Bodhi and her ilk definitely deserve it, but most of the thieve's guilds members are guilty of nothing worse than pickpocketing or fencing items. And you are expected to run in and indiscriminantly slaughter EVERYONE.
I expected Keldorn, but I thought the others would be more flexible.
For that matter, in BG1, if you turn down the chance to assist Alatos, he will attack immediately. If Bodhi's offer is turned down,well, she at least gives you fair warning and the heads up that next meeting will not go well. Still, as far as siding with one over the other just depends on my PC's nature at the time, as I like both options.