Of the three alignments, really only Evil makes sense for picking her (and even then...)
Evil NPCs: Fighter, Mage, Cleric. So it's logical for CHARNAME to have some sort of Thief in him.
If you're a Thief, Bodhi won't even let you work for her because she doesn't trust you.
However, I also think it's worth noting that the Shadow Thieves aren't even really the lesser of two evils, just the more familiar. As you'll notice when you play the Thief stronghold, they're not just a band of downtrodden merry men who use their skills to redistribute wealth, they're also slavers, murderers, and who knows what else. Not a very pleasant group of people.
In some of my playthroughs, I view joining Bodhi as a chance to get rid of both. You know, using a lot of meta gaming knowledge. Of course, you'll never actually get rid of the Shadow Thieves, merely interrupt their operations.
When playing an evil character, my character's goal is to destabilize Athkatla by removing the Shadow Theives from their lofty perch. Chaos = profit for the strong.
I usually role play my character's plan as: destroy the Shadow Theives. Revenge self on Irenicus. Return to Athkatla to double cross Bodhi and establish self as the power in Amn.
The Shadow Thieves are a reputable, stable, far-reaching organization that supercedes any individual. They also offered first; it takes a good deal for me to turn coat.
Bodhi is a blood-sucking banshee who's brother kidnapped and tortured me. Vampires deserve to die, regardless of alignment. She also doesn't offer a good enough discount.
Bodhi is a blood-sucking banshee who's brother kidnapped and tortured me. Vampires deserve to die, regardless of alignment.
And before anyone calls "metagaming!", you have the dialog option to say "You're in league with my enemy!" or some such when she gives you her sales pitch in the graveyard, so while you don't know they're brother and sister, CHARNAME does at least suspect that Bodhi is working with ol' Jonny boy. As for the vampire thing, if you have Jaheira with you you also know she's some sort of undead. So yeah, not metagaming.
I usually play part thief, which doesn't get a choice, Bodhi just assumes you'll stick with the thieves and turns you down. Otherwise......Probably the City Guard (via Mod)....I don't particularly like either faction and consider it quite lazy that they didn't include an option for good types (both factions are very much evil, the Shadow Thieves are just more Lawful-ish Evil Mafia-style, while Bodhi's crew are a bunch of blood-thirsty (literally and metaphorically) nutcases), especially Paladins, who if all their restrictions were properly implemented would permanently fall just by working with either side of their own volition.
Like I said earlier, I think it's a nice touch that there's no "good" option, as you aren't always presented with a nice, clean way to do things IRL. As for the paladin thing, I think you'd fall for either letting a madman of a wizard get away or abandoning your long-time friend as well, so, yeah, it's actually worse then you said, come to think of it. I guess it just really sucks to be a paladin in BG2. Maybe that's why they put the Holy Avenger in? "Sorry you don't get a good RP decision, have a Sword of Kill Everything +5."
Well, both actually. But Shadow Thieves about 75% of the time, since even evil characters will shy back from working with vampires.
I also miss a "good" option for those who don't wish to choose between "gray or black morality". But yes, interesting choice to force the player to choose what they think is the lesser evil.
Today for me, Bodhi is only an option in some few times:
If i install Valen mod and want to use her, Bodhi is mandatory, but the mod should be reviewed cos at the final battle with Bodhi the roleplay is displayed in a very bad way.
If among my NPCs, i have yoshimo, Korgan and Anomen, most of my party shows interest in joining bodhi (ps: anomen again being stupid, the way i like, being an priest and yet forget in evaluate the nature of Bodhi). This way, is like my party reach a democracy in votes to choice whom to ally.
If i want roleplay the destruction of both factions (with metagaming), i ally with Bodhi at first.
I usually do the Shadow Thieves simply because it keeps them alive, but I like the vampires better. It makes you lose Keldorn, though. I wish there were some reason for allying with them.
Hooray for the Valen mod, though I wish she were more balanced.
That's the problem with 2nd Ed pallies...there really isn't a lot of leeway.....there are very very VERY rare circumstances they can accept aid from evil characters, but they lose all their paladin abilities for the duration, and have to service penance (whatever the local chapter of Faith they seek atonement with requires, moderated based on the circumstances that required such sacrilege in the first place) and receive an atonement spell as soon as possible (or it's permanent), and then crush their evil benefactors as soon as possible (giving them the option to repent, change their ways, and accept punishment for their crimes or DIE (which need not be mutually exclusive), which you would put in a word for slight leniency to the courts for the aid rendered, if they do give up peacefully). (So even if a paladin accepted aid from the shadow thieves, he'd be temporary fallen until atoned, which if you play with a sense of urgency, means you won't get your abilities back until the interim between SoA and ToB, when he'd have a little bit of free time finally to go and do his atonement and see about crushing the shadow thieves).
As for Carsomyr.....technically speaking, a PnP Undead Hunter is supposed to get a Purifier +3 holy sword at level 6, AS A CLASS FEATURE (they're the only paladin to specifically receive a holy sword as a class feature, but the DM can choose to push it back to further levels if it's too powerful for that level in their setting, which given how Monty Haul BG is and how weak the purifier is in BG2...UH are getting SCREWED!?).
And the PnP Purifier is MUCH stronger then the one in BG2....it has all the same abilities as Carsomyr except it's extra damage and weapon type, which are actually part of the Paladin's Holy Sword class feature that applies to ANY holy sword (Avenger type holy sword are simply +5 great swords that deal an extra +10 damage vs chaotic evil beings..a purifier type type is +3 (but can hit as if +5, like all holy swords wielded by paladins) and deals an additional +10 damage vs Undead and boosts the wielder's effective level by +3 for turning attempts, which stacks with the +2 bonus a PnP UH already gets (UH turn equal to their level, instead of 2 less like other paladins that can turn). Interestingly, they also get the same dispel ability that an inquisitor does, just at a slightly slower rate. (I assume they traded that out for level drain protection and spell casting in BG....UH hunters are only immune to hold and paralysis in PnP, and lose everything an inquisitor does, except Turning).
Voted for the vampires. My Blackguard will probably side with them. CHARNAME does not know that Bodhi is in league with Irenicus, and the opportunity to disrupt the Shadow Thieves and grab some power in Athkatla would be mighty tempting. Once I'm done with Irenicus and painting the walls of Spellhold with some wizard blood, I'll return to Athkatla and half the Thieves' people will be working for me if they know what's good for them.
Actually, as I stated earlier, you have the dialog option to say "You're in league with my enemy!" or some such when Bodhi gives you her sales pitch in the graveyard. So while you don't know they're brother and sister, CHARNAME does, in fact, suspect that Bodhi is working with Irenicus.
I usually side with the thieves mainly because I usually can't resist playing a thief multi or dual-class and don't have a choice. I have sided with the vamps as an evil character before and it just feels so wrong slaughtering the living to benefit the (un)dead. If you're a Walking Dead fan it'd be like role-playing the Governor, really creepy!
Actually, as I stated earlier, you have the dialog option to say "You're in league with my enemy!" or some such when Bodhi gives you her sales pitch in the graveyard. So while you don't know they're brother and sister, CHARNAME does, in fact, suspect that Bodhi is working with Irenicus.
I don't recall that bit, but it seems sketchy. Other than there being a single vampire in Irenicus dungeon, I can't imagine where the connection lies.
I usually play good-aligned parties, so most of the times I side with the Shadow Thieves. In my first game with the Enhanced Edition I'm going to side with the Shadow Thieves as well because my charaname is chaotic good But I'll try later on with an evil party and then I'll side with Bodhi.
I like Bodhi's guild aesthetically, typical theives guilds though interesting, aren't as cool as a theives' guild run and populated entirely by vampires and their cattle. plus Bodhi is way more of a badass than Arin Linvail. though since paladin is my favorite class, I have to side with Arin Linvail most of the time. that being said, i wish the devs had included a way for you to screw over imoen and convince Bodi to turn against her brother since she got what she wanted anyway
Comments
Of the three alignments, really only Evil makes sense for picking her (and even then...)
Evil NPCs: Fighter, Mage, Cleric. So it's logical for CHARNAME to have some sort of Thief in him.
If you're a Thief, Bodhi won't even let you work for her because she doesn't trust you.
However, I also think it's worth noting that the Shadow Thieves aren't even really the lesser of two evils, just the more familiar. As you'll notice when you play the Thief stronghold, they're not just a band of downtrodden merry men who use their skills to redistribute wealth, they're also slavers, murderers, and who knows what else. Not a very pleasant group of people.
I usually join the Shadows Thieves, though.
I usually role play my character's plan as: destroy the Shadow Theives. Revenge self on Irenicus. Return to Athkatla to double cross Bodhi and establish self as the power in Amn.
Bodhi is a blood-sucking banshee who's brother kidnapped and tortured me. Vampires deserve to die, regardless of alignment. She also doesn't offer a good enough discount.
Like I said earlier, I think it's a nice touch that there's no "good" option, as you aren't always presented with a nice, clean way to do things IRL. As for the paladin thing, I think you'd fall for either letting a madman of a wizard get away or abandoning your long-time friend as well, so, yeah, it's actually worse then you said, come to think of it. I guess it just really sucks to be a paladin in BG2. Maybe that's why they put the Holy Avenger in? "Sorry you don't get a good RP decision, have a Sword of Kill Everything +5."
I also miss a "good" option for those who don't wish to choose between "gray or black morality". But yes, interesting choice to force the player to choose what they think is the lesser evil.
If i install Valen mod and want to use her, Bodhi is mandatory, but the mod should be reviewed cos at the final battle with Bodhi the roleplay is displayed in a very bad way.
If among my NPCs, i have yoshimo, Korgan and Anomen, most of my party shows interest in joining bodhi (ps: anomen again being stupid, the way i like, being an priest and yet forget in evaluate the nature of Bodhi). This way, is like my party reach a democracy in votes to choice whom to ally.
If i want roleplay the destruction of both factions (with metagaming), i ally with Bodhi at first.
Hooray for the Valen mod, though I wish she were more balanced.
That's the problem with 2nd Ed pallies...there really isn't a lot of leeway.....there are very very VERY rare circumstances they can accept aid from evil characters, but they lose all their paladin abilities for the duration, and have to service penance (whatever the local chapter of Faith they seek atonement with requires, moderated based on the circumstances that required such sacrilege in the first place) and receive an atonement spell as soon as possible (or it's permanent), and then crush their evil benefactors as soon as possible (giving them the option to repent, change their ways, and accept punishment for their crimes or DIE (which need not be mutually exclusive), which you would put in a word for slight leniency to the courts for the aid rendered, if they do give up peacefully). (So even if a paladin accepted aid from the shadow thieves, he'd be temporary fallen until atoned, which if you play with a sense of urgency, means you won't get your abilities back until the interim between SoA and ToB, when he'd have a little bit of free time finally to go and do his atonement and see about crushing the shadow thieves).
As for Carsomyr.....technically speaking, a PnP Undead Hunter is supposed to get a Purifier +3 holy sword at level 6, AS A CLASS FEATURE (they're the only paladin to specifically receive a holy sword as a class feature, but the DM can choose to push it back to further levels if it's too powerful for that level in their setting, which given how Monty Haul BG is and how weak the purifier is in BG2...UH are getting SCREWED!?).
And the PnP Purifier is MUCH stronger then the one in BG2....it has all the same abilities as Carsomyr except it's extra damage and weapon type, which are actually part of the Paladin's Holy Sword class feature that applies to ANY holy sword (Avenger type holy sword are simply +5 great swords that deal an extra +10 damage vs chaotic evil beings..a purifier type type is +3 (but can hit as if +5, like all holy swords wielded by paladins) and deals an additional +10 damage vs Undead and boosts the wielder's effective level by +3 for turning attempts, which stacks with the +2 bonus a PnP UH already gets (UH turn equal to their level, instead of 2 less like other paladins that can turn). Interestingly, they also get the same dispel ability that an inquisitor does, just at a slightly slower rate. (I assume they traded that out for level drain protection and spell casting in BG....UH hunters are only immune to hold and paralysis in PnP, and lose everything an inquisitor does, except Turning).
With the vampires, well, someone certainly seems to be a tool. And given events... its not the vampires.
Actually, as I stated earlier, you have the dialog option to say "You're in league with my enemy!" or some such when Bodhi gives you her sales pitch in the graveyard. So while you don't know they're brother and sister, CHARNAME does, in fact, suspect that Bodhi is working with Irenicus.
Soon the shadow thieves in their base in Athkatla shall be destroyed!
In my first game with the Enhanced Edition I'm going to side with the Shadow Thieves as well because my charaname is chaotic good
Although I make an exception if I'm playing as a paladin (and specifically an undead hunter).