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The Adventurer's Lounge: Guidance and Support for No Reload Challengers- Newbie or Veteran

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  • jessejmcjessejmc Member Posts: 139
    edited July 26
    In BGEE, do weapons such as Harrower +(1, +3 vs. undead), Kondar (+1, +3 vs Shapeshifters), and
    The Kneecapper (+1, +4 vs. giant humanoids) work against Belhifet? I've searched around a bit and think that they do. Can anyone confirm?

  • Wise_GrimwaldWise_Grimwald Member Posts: 2,853
    Does Rancor have all the same abilities if used by another Blackguard other than Dorn? It's the bonuses that I'm thinking of.

  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 6,438
    Does Rancor have all the same abilities if used by another Blackguard other than Dorn? It's the bonuses that I'm thinking of.

    The basic bonus works, but I think the additional +1 chance to hit if the sword has killed an enemy in the last 24 hours only applies when Dorn is using it.

    Wise_Grimwald
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 1,023
    edited July 26
    jessejmc wrote: »
    In BGEE, do weapons such as Harrower +(1, +3 vs. undead), Kondar (+1, +3 vs Shapeshifters), and
    The Kneecapper (+1, +4 vs. giant humanoids) work against Belhifet?
    Only if Belhifet is of an appropriate type. Harrower, Kondar, and The Burning Earth definitely wouldn't work (he's not undead, a lycanthrope, a doppelganger, or a winter wolf). Kneecapper would work if he's classified as a giant humanoid, and the Root of the Problem would work if he's classified as giant humanoid or monster. Fiends in general tend to be classified as monsters, though I don't have SoD to check Belhifet in particular.
    In the EE, the variable-enchantment weapons all hit based on their enchantment levels versus their target, with the exception of the Mace of Disruption.
    Does Rancor have all the same abilities if used by another Blackguard other than Dorn? It's the bonuses that I'm thinking of.
    (Edit) For anyone other than Dorn, Rancor functions as an ordinary +1 two-handed sword, restricted to non-good characters.

    Post edited by jmerry on
    StummvonBordwehrjessejmcWise_GrimwaldAerakar
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 6,438
    jmerry wrote: »
    Does Rancor have all the same abilities if used by another Blackguard other than Dorn? It's the bonuses that I'm thinking of.
    The spell Rancor casts when you kill an enemy is not character-specific, and neither is the item. Any non-good character that can use two-handed swords can use and fully benefit from Rancor.

    @jmerry have you tested it? As I posted above, it is intended to be specific to Dorn. After your post I tested by creating a Blackguard PC. He neither benefits from the THAC0 bonus if the sword is transferred from Dorn to him after making a kill, nor if he makes the kill himself.

  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 1,023
    ... Oh, I wasn't reading that properly. There are several spells involved here, with the combined effect that only Dorn benefits from Rancor's THAC0 bonus.

    First, Dorn's script casts OHDSW3 on him - permanent immunity to OHDSW2.
    On killing an enemy, Rancor casts OHDSW2 and then OHDSW1 on the wielder. OHDSW2 grants permanent immunity to OHDSW1 and OHDSW2.
    OHDSW1 - which only Dorn is not immune to at this point - is the actual THAC0-boosting spell.

    It does some complicated things to get there, but Rancor is effectively a vanilla +1 two-handed sword for anyone other than Dorn.

    Grond0Wise_Grimwald
  • Wise_GrimwaldWise_Grimwald Member Posts: 2,853
    I was browsing the web and on another board came across a discussion regarding editting a character to give higher stats. The posts ended with some quite misleading information and I thought that it would be a good idea to make a post with the correct information. However I thought that before adding my two pennyworth, I would check my own input here.

    Firstly I have read on this board and elsewhere that editing with EE Keeper gives false values elsewhere.

    A suggestion made was to use ctrl 8. This maximises all the stats to 18 and 18/00 for strength. Fine if you are wanting a human fighter. For other races it is necessary to then adjust the stats according to race. Lower dex and raise con for a dwarf for example. However it gives 18/00 strength for mages, thieves and clerics as well. Clearly wrong.

    My preference for getting a high roll is to use Finn Jo's reroller. There are other good ones too apparently.

    The problem with rerollers is that they might take longer to get a high roll than you want. Not a problem for me.

    So we come to my suggestion which may or may not be ideal. I'll leave it up to you to inform me of any drawbacks.

    Give Gorion's cre file a load of tomes.

    You can then go straight to him at character creation and use the relevant tomes to boost your stats.
    Then export the character and import it in a new game.

    IMO all the stats of the character thus imported should be self-consistant. Am I right?

    It's not a method that I would use myself.

    I am perfectly happy with the re-roller and I know that some wouldn't dream of even using that. All I do is give Gorion a bag of holding for convenience.

    StummvonBordwehrmonico
  • monicomonico Member Posts: 564
    edited July 27
    I'm running an (EEkeepered) multiclass half-elven fighter/shapeshifter druid, used mostly in his werewolf form.

    I noticed a few interesting stuff, and I have a few questions too.

    Observations:
    - there seems to be a different behaviour in shapeshifted forms (in general) between BG1EE and BG2EE: in BG1EE, you can remove/replace an offhand weapon/shield while shapeshifted. In BG2EE, you cannot remove nor equip after shapeshift but if you have an offhand weapon or shield equipped before changing, you still get (some) benefits from what you wear.
    - in both games, your shapeshifted werewolf form benefits from the single-weapon-style (up to +2 AC and +5% critical chance), and it works even if you have a weapon in the offhand. Even more surprising, your offhand weapon benefits from the increased critical chance from Single Weapon Style (at least in BG1EE)
    - in both games, your shapeshifted form benefits from the AC bonus & special effects from a shield, and benefit from the Sword & Shield Style (and no longer benefits from the SW style obviously)
    - in BG1EE, there is no need to put pips in Two-Weapon-Style, you don't get any penalty to your mainhand or your offhand when using a weapon in offhand (forgot to test it in BG2EE, but I don't think you get a penalty to your mainhand - offhand is irrelevant since you don't get an attack from the offhand weapon, see below).
    - if dualwielding, there is another difference between BG1EE & BG2EE : in BG1EE, you get +1 APR (and attack with your offhand weapon). In BG2EE, you don't get any bonus APR nor attack with said offhand weapon, but you can still benefit from Belm's special effect giving you another APR on your mainhand (being your claws).
    - Not tested in BG2EE, but in BG1EE at least, equiping or even reequiping the Gauntlets of Dexterity does not set your DEX to 18, but equiping Buckley's Buckler does increase your DEX by 1, and potions of dexterity (DEX set to 18) or potions of Mind Focusing (+3 DEX) do apply. Also, potions of X giant strength also seem to work (in only tested gulping on while already shapeshifted, I think though that gulping it before transforming would probably have its effect overridden).

    That's it so far for the interesting tweaks from this shapeshifter form (tested with the eekeepered shapeshifter/fighter multi but a dual Shapeshifter > Fighter, or even a plain Shapeshifter would have the same results).

    Now as for the questions:
    - as far as I have tested, the claws don't benefit from any weapon style (apart from the fighting styles listed above), even from the "old" BG1 weapon categories (which sometimes apply to summoned weapons and can be cheated in via EEKeeper). Am I right in this assumption ?
    - both the WW form and the GWW form strike as +2, which means there will be some monsters I won't be able to hit as a werewolf. Since I still want to focus on shapeshifts, I wonder what are the stats of the HLA transformations (Earth & Fire elemental transformations) ? Do they hit as +3 or more ? What other differences do they have ? (I couldn't find reliable intel on their stats)
    - the Gauntlets of Crushing (and probably any gear that benefit monk's fist attacks for that matter) also seem to somewhat benefit the werewolf's paws: the inventory sheet doesn't show the +4 thac0, but does show the +4 damage though for some reason. I have not tested if both, or none, or just the damage bonus do apply though (I only looked at the inventory sheet while testing and thought the damage would apply, but the comment section in the wiki states differently). Anyone knows the real behaviour ?
    - In general, is there some interesting gear that one would not think about that would benefit a fighter/shapeshifter-druid ?

    ReticentGrond0
  • ReticentReticent Member Posts: 116
    EE's handling of Shapeshifters/polymorphs has a lot to do with why I still spend a lot of time playing the original games.

    Anyway, IIRC the WW hits as +2 and the GWW hits as +3. For enemies that require +4 or better you're better off out of Shapeshift (aside from a few niche strategies where you want the AC while relying on items and pre-buffs like Globe of Blades). Honestly, those enemies are uncommon enough that I never found that to be a big deal. I believe the HLA forms have +4 enchantment attacks (the Earth Elemental form also had an undocumented +1 attack, which makes it VERY good for a Fighter/Druid).

    My basic Shapeshifter load-out leans on getting +1 THAC0 items in the helm and glove slots, stacking AC or immunities in the other accessory slots, and keeping my weapon slots full of items with activatable powers, as those remain usable while shifted. Things like Staff of Fire and Staff of Thunder and Lightning (which taken together happen to be a nice mix of offense, defense, and summoning abilities).

    A Shapeshifter with Fighter levels such as yours doesn't really need the THAC0 help, but the other gearing strategies should hold true.

    Different versions of the game have different behaviors for "conjured" weapons and two-weapon fighting, I think the general case is that the engine wouldn't calculate the THAC0 penalty properly for dual wielding when the main hand is overwritten by a spell effect or form change. I'm not sure how recent patch versions of EE are addressing that.

    Time was you could also get some weird carry-over situations when your offhand weapon had conditional bonuses (like Root of the Problem and unnatural creatures). Might be worth equipping it in your offhand and seeing if it affects your main hand attacks, if you stick to dual wielding. Aside from that I think you've already found all the things there are to know about Shapeshifter and weapons styles.

    monicoGrond0
  • Wise_GrimwaldWise_Grimwald Member Posts: 2,853
    Am I correct in thinking that there are no Berserker NPCs in BG1/Dragonspear even with mod NPCs?

  • jessejmcjessejmc Member Posts: 139
    Am I correct in thinking that there are no Berserker NPCs in BG1/Dragonspear even with mod NPCs?

    Not sure about mod NPCs, but Minsc is as close at it gets.

    Reticentsemiticgod
  • Wise_GrimwaldWise_Grimwald Member Posts: 2,853
    No dwarven ones then? I'm always having dwarven PCs and so are a lot of others, yet nobody has thought to create one as an NPC. That is weird!

  • monicomonico Member Posts: 564
    No dwarven ones then? I'm always having dwarven PCs and so are a lot of others, yet nobody has thought to create one as an NPC. That is weird!

    The NPC would be too powerful and overshadow the MC maybe ? :smiley:

    Wise_Grimwald
  • ReticentReticent Member Posts: 116
    So, how badly does a Transmuter fare at mage chess without access to Abjuration spells?

    With and without access to specific magic items, as I imagine SotM and Wands of Spell Striking can probably bridge a lot of the gap once you actually have them.

  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,127
    It is not the abjuration spells that you need to worry about but divination to which you cannot protect late game.

    Early game abjuration spells do not matter at all since you have shield and mirror image.
    Early to mid game you have invisibility, improved invisibility, stone skin and shadow door to be the main protectors next to spells like mirror image and shield.
    Until here direct spells will not matter since the rebuff is a singular spell (invisibility types or stoneskin as responses to dispel/remove magic and invisibility removal), and a bit later sequncers can quickly rebuff for you.
    Summons I am not afraid of because they go both ways. If they summon, I can summon.

    Mid game jelly helps but most of the easy things stop when the real danger starts with true sight. It stops you from being untargetable by invisibility. And then the real chess begins.

    ReticentAerakarsemiticgod
  • monicomonico Member Posts: 564
    edited August 3
    I disagree with the above. Transmuters are bada**, alteration spells are awesome.

    - Facing one particularly dangerous (non-arcanist) enemy ? Greater Malison + Polymorph Other (alteration) = enemy saves at -6, and it basically is a win button. Very very few enemies are immune to the Polymorph Other spell.
    At higher levels, Disintegrate and Flesh to Stone works the same (although I prefer Polymorph Other as it's a lvl 4 spells and more enemies are immune to petrification/slaying from the disintegrate spell than to polymorphing).

    - Facing a group of small-critter enemies ? GM+Slow (alteration), enemies save at -8, then Polymorph Self (alteration):Flind Form, while Stoneskined (alteration) obviously and just wreck them.

    - Facing a (lone) arcanist / beholders ? Polymorph Self:Mustard Jelly Form and just shrug all those spells. Against regular spellcasters, you might wanna Sequencer some self buffs. Strength of One (alteration)+Luck is a good combo for this in BG1/SoD, the Strength belts in BG2 replace the need for strength spell. Do note that any STR buff must be applied after transforming (hence the sequencer, or just reequiping the STR-enhancing gear)

    - You're facing a group of enemies, and can't handle all of them ? GM+Otiluke's Sphere (alteration) disables a single enemy (save at -6). Use it on the most annoying enemy to let you take care of the rest first, then you can focus on the "disabled" one once Otiluke's Sphere runs out. Note that it also works on neutral characters, so a good way to disable for example Gaius in the sewers before triggering the fight against Tarnor & co (cheesy though).

    - You're starting to gather levels under your (STR) belt ? Prebuff with Stoneskin (alteration), Improved Haste (alteration) and Tenser's Transformation (alteration), then Polymorph into Flind Form and almost nothing can stand in your way.
    By 3M XP, replace Polymorph Self with Shapechange (lvl 9 alteration spell) and either go for brain devouring Mindflayer form (8 APR under IH, -5 INT per hit, enemies die when INT reach 0, it can clear a room full of enemies in seconds) or Greater Wolfwere/Giant Troll for high APR and good damage (plus various other effects, notably a rare immunity to stun for the Giant Troll), or the Iron Golem for low APR but very high damage, plus it hits as +4 weapon, and has 100% resist to magic/elements.


    Admittedly though, the transformation spells can be used as effectively even if you are not a transmuter. But it just fits the character RP-wise.

    EDIT:
    jmerry wrote: »
    Lower resistance from enemy spellcasters in SCS ... definitely a thing, including that triple-LR spell trigger. Also, there are some spells out there that ignore MR - if you're up against a mage with HLAs, that includes Comet, Dragon Breath, and summoned planetars casting Fire Storm. Mustard jelly form is not resistant to fire.

    The Iron Golem form from the Shapechange spell is though. And if high level spellcaster casts Comet or Dragon Breath to my transmuter, I'm pretty sure I would be of a high enough level to transform into a golem.

    But ok, I must admit, the lack of abjuration spells make a duel between a transmuter and another specialist mage a bit difficult for the transmuter, from lack of diversity I'd say.

    StummvonBordwehrGrond0ReticentAerakar
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 14,381
    Transmutation spells are well known to be strong. The problem with the Transmuter is not that the spells they can cast are weak, but because the spells they cannot cast are important. The utility of a specialist mage kit, compared to other specialists, is mostly determined by what it loses rather than what it gains.

    Jaheiras_WitnessGrond0Wise_GrimwaldAerakar
  • Wise_GrimwaldWise_Grimwald Member Posts: 2,853
    semiticgod wrote: »
    Transmutation spells are well known to be strong. The problem with the Transmuter is not that the spells they can cast are weak, but because the spells they cannot cast are important. The utility of a specialist mage kit, compared to other specialists, is mostly determined by what it loses rather than what it gains.

    Which means that if you are playing a party that having two mages in opposing schools can be a good idea, though having a specialist mage and a generalist also works.

    Grond0Aerakar
  • Corey_RussellCorey_Russell Member Posts: 770
    I got a really strange problem - my game thinks I have a magical weapon equipped, but I don't. So can't use my bow. And 2nd, an INVENTORY slot thinks its a magical weapon, and I can't get rid of it with EE Keeper. Help!

    pc5c77i32q44.png

  • Wise_GrimwaldWise_Grimwald Member Posts: 2,853
    edited August 11
    Can you use EE keeper to change it to another magical weapon? Then clear it.
    I have done that to get rid of imaginary items so it should work.

  • Corey_RussellCorey_Russell Member Posts: 770
    No that doesn't clear it. Think I will just re-roll my character. I haven't gotten very far.

    Wise_Grimwald
  • Wise_GrimwaldWise_Grimwald Member Posts: 2,853
    I have an evil party consisting of myself (a berserker), Kagain, Montaron, Edwin, Dorn, and Viconia.

    I am wondering if the balance would be better dropping off Kagain for Baeloth.

    Thoughts please. I am off to SoD afterwards if I survive.

  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,127
    Depends a bit on how you do the end battle. In SoD your party needs to be rebuilt anyhow.
    I generally use quite some magic at the end but I would probably take Eldoth over Baeloth. I like his archery and singing.

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