Oh, and I reported that death effects bug over at the SCS forum. For the record, which SCS version was it exactly?
35.17.
The initial motivation for my uninstall and re-install may be worth mentioning, too. It could be relevant, or, in the alternative, worth addressing in its own right, if it hasn't been raised already:
"Minsc was petrified during a waylay. With the revised death effect component installed, petrified NPCs don't leave the party. They remain with their portraits greyed out. If you need to leave the area to get a stone to flesh scroll, you're supposed to kick them out, and they should be waiting for you. Per the read me:
Characters who are petrified likewise remain in the party. If kicked out (e.g. because you need to leave the area to get a Stone to Flesh scroll) they remain in the area and can be restored as normal.
Unfortunately, in waylay areas the reform party button is greyed out. Since we can't leave the area with Minsc in the party, and we can't remove him, the only way forward is to destroy his statue. This seems regrettable, as it's clearly not how SCS's revised death effect component was intended to work."
One more thing: Do you remember the Ascension issue I raised the last time I was active? The cutoff pools during the final confrontation with Mel and the 5 in Ascension 2.x vs the connected pools in Ascension 1.x. Do you know if that has been addressed?
(I should probably setup a G3 account so I can report things myself, but discussing issues with someone who's capable of implementing fixes first kind of makes sense. I used to do that with GrimJim, years ago, and that worked out well.)
I don't remember anything about that except my own experience playing it ... and the fact that SCS mages can cast Teleport Field and have a chance of sending party members to the side areas. The protagonist has a power to get back (granted by one of the pools), but other party members don't and can only hope to be teleported again.
Or you can intentionally hop over to one of them, and be out of range of any non-teleporting melee attackers.
I don't think anything's been done about it. I don't see any recent changes to that part of things anyway. Nothing in the readme either, but that's only on 2.0.21 rather than the current 2.0.28.
SCS mages can cast Teleport Field and have a chance of sending party members to the side areas...party members...can only hope to be teleported again.
Right. It can create awkward situations in party play, possibly necessitating a bug reload.
Or you can intentionally hop over to one of them, and be out of range of any non-teleporting melee attackers.
Yes. It's super-exploitable. All you need to do to win the final battle is DD to a pool with the Reflection Shield and the Cloak of Mirroring, while maintaining proximity to Mel, so as not to trigger TWE. Moving Mel to where you need her to be is trivial. In my case I charmed Sarevok with a mind flayer control circlet and used him to lure her there. I completed a SCS-Ascension solo no reload on insane with a single class cleric using that method. It was sort of amusing to do it once, upon first discovery, especially since it facilitated something that would be difficult otherwise. It shouldn't really be an option, though.
I don't think anything's been done about it. I don't see any recent changes to that part of things anyway. Nothing in the readme either, but that's only on 2.0.21 rather than the current 2.0.28.
It's a major flaw in Ascension 2.X. It provides a straightforward way to trivialize the battle on any difficulty setting and it can necessitate bug reloads. The original behavior should be restored. If you could implement a fix I'd install that immediately.
Does anyone happen to have a full list of the trap effects encountered during the main quests of BG1? That would be the traps in the Nashkel Mines, the Bandit Camp, The Cloakwood Mines (I propably won't need the Candlekeep Crypts and the Thieve's Maze, but those could be useful as well). I know some of these, but because I basically never play without a thief, I don't know all of the effects.
Nashkel Mines: The ones on the bridge are missile damage traps, basically harmless. You can walk around the ones just before Mulahey
Bandit Camp: There's a Lightning Bolt trap on the chest in the leader's tent
(Sometimes I trigger this with the Boots of Grounding and a potion of insulation. If I'm on my way to kill Taurgosz I use a potion of absorption instead)
Cloakwood: Web traps in area 2
(I usually trigger these under invisibility)
Candlekeep Crypts: Magic Missile, Fireball, Lightning Bolt and Web
(Shield Amulet + 100% fire resistance + 100% electricity resistance, Web under invisibility)
Thieves' Maze: Fireball, Lightning Bolt and Magic Missile
(Shield Amulet + 100% fire resistance + 100% electricity resistance)
This is kind of what I expected, but I wasn't quite sure if there was also something unusual added into the mix (looks like BG2 offers a much bigger variety of traps). It seems that, besides shield/resistance spells/resistance potions, I also could use PfM scrolls or potions of magic blocking to trigger a bunch of these if I have a few extra consumables that I won't need. I think the Iron Mines might be missing from that list, though (at least the traps in front of Davaeorn, I'd guess you usually avoid the ones in level 2).
This is kind of what I expected, but I wasn't quite sure if there was also something unusual added into the mix (looks like BG2 offers a much bigger variety of traps)
If you stray from the main quest line you’ll find more variety. If you’re collecting tomes we have more to discuss, lol
The knowledge is a precaution for a run where I'm planning to dual class the party thief to fighter at some point in BG1, so there will be a decent amount of time where I won't be able to disarm traps - since I don't know exactly how the experience levels will shake out, I'm not sure at which part of the mainquest I will be at this point (and I don't think there will be enough available sidecontent to get my thief levels back before I can return to the mainquests), so I just wanted to know what I'd have to deal with at various possible points in the story. I don't think I'll need to venture into Durlag's Tower or some other place with crazy traps - If I don't get the thief levels back near the end of BG1, I'd rather move on to SoA, where I've gotten past all of the traps without a thief before (during my druid solo attempts), though it has been a very long time.
There's a couple of spike damage traps in the Candlekeep crypts as well, but they don't do enough damage to be a threat to most characters even if you don't use stoneskin (or mirror images + luck) to block them entirely - though note that the one guarding the tomb with the PfM scroll is a repeating trap.
There's a couple of spike damage traps in the Candlekeep crypts as well, but they don't do enough damage to be a threat to most characters even if you don't use stoneskin (or mirror images + luck) to block them entirely - though note that the one guarding the tomb with the PfM scroll is a repeating trap.
Good catch! I was assuming tome collection and a quick exit, since that's my standard practice, but the crypt you're referring to is super tempting. I'm guessing most people swing by there
The knowledge is a precaution for a run where I'm planning to dual class the party thief to fighter at some point in BG1, so there will be a decent amount of time where I won't be able to disarm traps
Btw, has anyone fought SCS v35.17 Chapter 3 Improved Bodhi on insane? What was she like? I just fought her and she was tamer than I expected. I know she pulls her punches in that encounter, per the read me, but I expected more from her. I just want to confirm that her script was working correctly.
On insane I fought her only in v34 - there are no documented changes to her from 34 to 35, and she basically didn't do anything of note in my first encounter with her, only using her more powerful new abilities in the second one (well, in party-based games she usually dies extremely quickly, before she gets to do much, in her first appearance, unless you just let her live on purpose for a while - even if you don't overdo preparations with full traps and summons, she starts off alone, surrounded, unbuffed and with limited action economy, while the player is likely to have ways to deal extra damage to undead). Of course I can't rule out that the script might still be faulty in your run, but her doing very little should not be surprising for this first battle.
Of course I can't rule out that the script might still be faulty in your run, but her doing very little should not be surprising for this first battle.
Noted. I'd seen more from her in prior editions. In my priest of Talos run, for example, she switched to wolf form to bypass crushing AC adjustments. This time she just whiffed away at Aerie's potion of absorption + girdle of bluntness combo. I also expected her to target more intelligently. Instead she just went for the closest enemy, the effectively untouchable Aerie
Everything else is working fine in this install, so I guess I don't have any reason to think something is wrong. And of course David should keep this hurdle low in the event that a player rushes to Imoen.
I'd like to see level dependence here. Bodhi's objective in this encounter is to test but not kill the Bhaalspawn. She should pull her punches, but her effort should be commensurate with the Bhaalspawns power. It would be nice if she deployed additional powers as the level of the Bhaalspawn increases, instead of just making her a pushover
My strategy for chapter 3 Improved Bodhi? Don't fight her. Put up some sacrificial summons, have someone poke their head in to trigger the encounter, and retreat. She'll kill the summons, stand around because she can't find anyone else to fight, and then leave.
While the vanilla version of that encounter has Bodhi stick around until you beat her down, the SCS "improved" version has her on a timer. She'll leave when that timer's up, even if you haven't hurt her at all.
Also, the critical path traps in BG1:
- Nashkel Mines: Arrow traps (2d6 piercing) on the floor in the abandoned mine level. Three guarding side paths, two across the bridge. Then two arrow traps and a magic missile trap (3x 1d4+1 magic) at the end; you might be able to outrun the magic missiles by going through the door. Detection/removal difficulties in the 10-15 range.
- Bandit camp: Lightning bolt trap (10d6 electric, save for half) on the must-open chest in the big tent. Detection/removal difficulty 20.
- Cloakwood spider zone: Web traps on the ground (as the spell), protecting clearings with spiders or ettercaps in them. Detection/removal difficulties of up to 50; the very first unavoidable trap is one of those with difficulty 50.
- Cloakwood Mines, prison level: A magic missile trap and a lightning bolt trap in the direct corridor to Hareishan. Detection/removal difficulty 30.
- Cloakwood Mines, final area. A bunch of traps across the secret corridor. 2x summon battle horror at difficulty 30, Skull Trap at difficulty 40 (5d6 magic, save for half), Glyph of Warding at difficulty 90 (5d4 electric, save for none), and Glyph of Warding at difficulty 50.
- Candlekeep catacombs, treasure crypt level: No traps on the way out, lots guarding the treasure and the dead ends. Magic Missile at the start. Arrow, magic missile, and lightning bolt at the entrance to the first tome room, plus another Magic Missile on that crypt. Arrow at the door and Lightning Bolt on the crypt for the Protection from Magic scroll. Arrow, Magic Missile, and Lightning Bolt in the first dead end. Arrow and Magic Missile for the empty crypt. Resetting lightning bolt on the path to the second tome, followed by a web and a fireball (10d6 fire, save for half). Then another fireball on the tome container itself. All trap detection/removal difficulties are in the 50-70 range.
- Candlekeep catacombs, doppelganger level: Lightning bolt and fireball traps scattered around the perimeter of that checkered floor area, plus one instance of Magic Missile. 30 to detect, 60-70 to disarm.
- Candlekeep catacombs, cave level: Web traps guarding the spider rooms, difficulty 50-70.
- Thieves' Maze: Three lightning bolts and a fireball before the path branches. Then your choice of a fireball and two arrows (left path through the center) or three magic missiles (right path through the northern section). Plus various fireball and lightning bolt traps in dead-end paths. All traps are at difficulty 40-50, except for one fireball in a dead-end corner at 60 to detect and 90 to disarm. All traps on through paths are indicated by green marks on the walls, but some dead-end traps are unmarked when you get close to those ends.
- Final battle area: A lightning bolt and a resetting lightning bolt on the left, difficulty 50. Resetting arrows in the tears of the Bhaal skull plus skull traps on the skull itself; difficulty 50 to detect, can't be disarmed. Then some triggers that can't be disarmed; battle horror summons on the right and in the upper left, stinking clouds and webs at the edge of the platform (triggered by anyone entering, cast at a PC).
My strategy for chapter 3 Improved Bodhi? Don't fight her. Put up some sacrificial summons, have someone poke their head in to trigger the encounter, and retreat. She'll kill the summons, stand around because she can't find anyone else to fight, and then leave.
Noted. I’m glad you’re happy with that.
I’m aware she’s on a timer. Semiticgoddess leveraged that at least once.
I prefer to play the battle as intended, within the logic of the narrative. I’m seeking more of a fight from her, not less.
As mentioned, I’d like to see her abilities scale with the PCs. It would be nice if there were a slider for the encounter too. It would also be interesting if she aggressively pursued NPCs. Ideally she’d display her full abilities against them. She should be pulling her punches with respect to the Bhaalspawn, given her purpose, but there’s no reason why she shouldn’t try to kill one of the Bhaalspawns companions.
Btw, @Enuhal I was reading our old Pillars of Eternity thread earlier today. It was cool that we were able to get a group together to try a different game for a bit. Fun times!
Btw, @Enuhal I was reading our old Pillars of Eternity thread earlier today. It was cool that we were able to get a group together to try a different game for a bit. Fun times!
Yep, good time indeed and something worth to repeat someday Especially considering there was new patch released recently.
PoE is great - haven't played it in a long time, though, but I remember it very fondly.
I did return to PoE 2 about 3 years ago to finally play through it on a veteran difficulty (had to turn it down during my initial playthrough, and I just couldn't let that stand). Didn't have to reload much until I got to the DLC content and to the incredibly tough megabosses, but the run wasn't nearly as easy as one might expect considering my PoE1 experience. The changes in mechanics compared to PoE 1 make this one really tough for me, because I am very much immersed in the PoE1 ruleset and just can't seem to remember the many, many changes. What works for me in PoE doesn't work for me in the sequel (which is not too surprising, since many of my favorite spells and abilities have been heavily nerfed, some of them rightfully so - of course, there are some new super powerful tactics now, but I'm not exactly familiar with them).
Still, might be fun to try a (mega-boss/DLC-free) PoE2 no-relod challenge at some point in the future
I’d be open to switching over for a bit after my current run. Pathfinder is an option too. I still haven’t tried that. We should continue this over on the Tavern side and/or in DM.
Comments
Noted! I'll give it a try. @Enuhal may be interested too. It's very cool that you've addressed this. Thanks in advance!
35.17.
The initial motivation for my uninstall and re-install may be worth mentioning, too. It could be relevant, or, in the alternative, worth addressing in its own right, if it hasn't been raised already:
"Minsc was petrified during a waylay. With the revised death effect component installed, petrified NPCs don't leave the party. They remain with their portraits greyed out. If you need to leave the area to get a stone to flesh scroll, you're supposed to kick them out, and they should be waiting for you. Per the read me:
Characters who are petrified likewise remain in the party. If kicked out (e.g. because you need to leave the area to get a Stone to Flesh scroll) they remain in the area and can be restored as normal.
Unfortunately, in waylay areas the reform party button is greyed out. Since we can't leave the area with Minsc in the party, and we can't remove him, the only way forward is to destroy his statue. This seems regrettable, as it's clearly not how SCS's revised death effect component was intended to work."
One more thing: Do you remember the Ascension issue I raised the last time I was active? The cutoff pools during the final confrontation with Mel and the 5 in Ascension 2.x vs the connected pools in Ascension 1.x. Do you know if that has been addressed?
(I should probably setup a G3 account so I can report things myself, but discussing issues with someone who's capable of implementing fixes first kind of makes sense. I used to do that with GrimJim, years ago, and that worked out well.)
Cheers!
A.
Or you can intentionally hop over to one of them, and be out of range of any non-teleporting melee attackers.
I don't think anything's been done about it. I don't see any recent changes to that part of things anyway. Nothing in the readme either, but that's only on 2.0.21 rather than the current 2.0.28.
Right. It can create awkward situations in party play, possibly necessitating a bug reload.
Yes. It's super-exploitable. All you need to do to win the final battle is DD to a pool with the Reflection Shield and the Cloak of Mirroring, while maintaining proximity to Mel, so as not to trigger TWE. Moving Mel to where you need her to be is trivial. In my case I charmed Sarevok with a mind flayer control circlet and used him to lure her there. I completed a SCS-Ascension solo no reload on insane with a single class cleric using that method. It was sort of amusing to do it once, upon first discovery, especially since it facilitated something that would be difficult otherwise. It shouldn't really be an option, though.
It's a major flaw in Ascension 2.X. It provides a straightforward way to trivialize the battle on any difficulty setting and it can necessitate bug reloads. The original behavior should be restored. If you could implement a fix I'd install that immediately.
Bandit Camp: There's a Lightning Bolt trap on the chest in the leader's tent
(Sometimes I trigger this with the Boots of Grounding and a potion of insulation. If I'm on my way to kill Taurgosz I use a potion of absorption instead)
Cloakwood: Web traps in area 2
(I usually trigger these under invisibility)
Candlekeep Crypts: Magic Missile, Fireball, Lightning Bolt and Web
(Shield Amulet + 100% fire resistance + 100% electricity resistance, Web under invisibility)
Thieves' Maze: Fireball, Lightning Bolt and Magic Missile
(Shield Amulet + 100% fire resistance + 100% electricity resistance)
This is kind of what I expected, but I wasn't quite sure if there was also something unusual added into the mix (looks like BG2 offers a much bigger variety of traps). It seems that, besides shield/resistance spells/resistance potions, I also could use PfM scrolls or potions of magic blocking to trigger a bunch of these if I have a few extra consumables that I won't need. I think the Iron Mines might be missing from that list, though (at least the traps in front of Davaeorn, I'd guess you usually avoid the ones in level 2).
Yes. The only ones you need to trigger are the ones in front of Davaeorn. ProMagic, which I’m typically running at that point, will foil all of them.
If you stray from the main quest line you’ll find more variety. If you’re collecting tomes we have more to discuss, lol
What’s your objective?
Good catch! I was assuming tome collection and a quick exit, since that's my standard practice, but the crypt you're referring to is super tempting. I'm guessing most people swing by there
Noted!
Noted. I'd seen more from her in prior editions. In my priest of Talos run, for example, she switched to wolf form to bypass crushing AC adjustments. This time she just whiffed away at Aerie's potion of absorption + girdle of bluntness combo. I also expected her to target more intelligently. Instead she just went for the closest enemy, the effectively untouchable Aerie
Everything else is working fine in this install, so I guess I don't have any reason to think something is wrong. And of course David should keep this hurdle low in the event that a player rushes to Imoen.
I'd like to see level dependence here. Bodhi's objective in this encounter is to test but not kill the Bhaalspawn. She should pull her punches, but her effort should be commensurate with the Bhaalspawns power. It would be nice if she deployed additional powers as the level of the Bhaalspawn increases, instead of just making her a pushover
While the vanilla version of that encounter has Bodhi stick around until you beat her down, the SCS "improved" version has her on a timer. She'll leave when that timer's up, even if you haven't hurt her at all.
Also, the critical path traps in BG1:
- Nashkel Mines: Arrow traps (2d6 piercing) on the floor in the abandoned mine level. Three guarding side paths, two across the bridge. Then two arrow traps and a magic missile trap (3x 1d4+1 magic) at the end; you might be able to outrun the magic missiles by going through the door. Detection/removal difficulties in the 10-15 range.
- Bandit camp: Lightning bolt trap (10d6 electric, save for half) on the must-open chest in the big tent. Detection/removal difficulty 20.
- Cloakwood spider zone: Web traps on the ground (as the spell), protecting clearings with spiders or ettercaps in them. Detection/removal difficulties of up to 50; the very first unavoidable trap is one of those with difficulty 50.
- Cloakwood Mines, prison level: A magic missile trap and a lightning bolt trap in the direct corridor to Hareishan. Detection/removal difficulty 30.
- Cloakwood Mines, final area. A bunch of traps across the secret corridor. 2x summon battle horror at difficulty 30, Skull Trap at difficulty 40 (5d6 magic, save for half), Glyph of Warding at difficulty 90 (5d4 electric, save for none), and Glyph of Warding at difficulty 50.
- Candlekeep catacombs, treasure crypt level: No traps on the way out, lots guarding the treasure and the dead ends. Magic Missile at the start. Arrow, magic missile, and lightning bolt at the entrance to the first tome room, plus another Magic Missile on that crypt. Arrow at the door and Lightning Bolt on the crypt for the Protection from Magic scroll. Arrow, Magic Missile, and Lightning Bolt in the first dead end. Arrow and Magic Missile for the empty crypt. Resetting lightning bolt on the path to the second tome, followed by a web and a fireball (10d6 fire, save for half). Then another fireball on the tome container itself. All trap detection/removal difficulties are in the 50-70 range.
- Candlekeep catacombs, doppelganger level: Lightning bolt and fireball traps scattered around the perimeter of that checkered floor area, plus one instance of Magic Missile. 30 to detect, 60-70 to disarm.
- Candlekeep catacombs, cave level: Web traps guarding the spider rooms, difficulty 50-70.
- Thieves' Maze: Three lightning bolts and a fireball before the path branches. Then your choice of a fireball and two arrows (left path through the center) or three magic missiles (right path through the northern section). Plus various fireball and lightning bolt traps in dead-end paths. All traps are at difficulty 40-50, except for one fireball in a dead-end corner at 60 to detect and 90 to disarm. All traps on through paths are indicated by green marks on the walls, but some dead-end traps are unmarked when you get close to those ends.
- Final battle area: A lightning bolt and a resetting lightning bolt on the left, difficulty 50. Resetting arrows in the tears of the Bhaal skull plus skull traps on the skull itself; difficulty 50 to detect, can't be disarmed. Then some triggers that can't be disarmed; battle horror summons on the right and in the upper left, stinking clouds and webs at the edge of the platform (triggered by anyone entering, cast at a PC).
And thank you for the super detailed trap breakdown
Noted. I’m glad you’re happy with that.
I’m aware she’s on a timer. Semiticgoddess leveraged that at least once.
I prefer to play the battle as intended, within the logic of the narrative. I’m seeking more of a fight from her, not less.
As mentioned, I’d like to see her abilities scale with the PCs. It would be nice if there were a slider for the encounter too. It would also be interesting if she aggressively pursued NPCs. Ideally she’d display her full abilities against them. She should be pulling her punches with respect to the Bhaalspawn, given her purpose, but there’s no reason why she shouldn’t try to kill one of the Bhaalspawns companions.
Btw, nice trap breakdown! Thanks for sharing!
Yep, good time indeed and something worth to repeat someday
I did return to PoE 2 about 3 years ago to finally play through it on a veteran difficulty (had to turn it down during my initial playthrough, and I just couldn't let that stand). Didn't have to reload much until I got to the DLC content and to the incredibly tough megabosses, but the run wasn't nearly as easy as one might expect considering my PoE1 experience. The changes in mechanics compared to PoE 1 make this one really tough for me, because I am very much immersed in the PoE1 ruleset and just can't seem to remember the many, many changes. What works for me in PoE doesn't work for me in the sequel (which is not too surprising, since many of my favorite spells and abilities have been heavily nerfed, some of them rightfully so - of course, there are some new super powerful tactics now, but I'm not exactly familiar with them).
Still, might be fun to try a (mega-boss/DLC-free) PoE2 no-relod challenge at some point in the future
I’d be open to switching over for a bit after my current run. Pathfinder is an option too. I still haven’t tried that. We should continue this over on the Tavern side and/or in DM.