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So what do you do when you die on a no-reload run?

I'm curious. Do you actually throw up your hands and say "To hell with those sixty hours in front of the computer, I'm gonna start from scratch!"?
ThacoBellStummvonBordwehrElendar
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Comments

  • YgramulYgramul Member Posts: 1,018
    What he said.

    Also, if I don't like my character or feel detached from my run (like, in one case, chunking Minsc by my own hand while Confused), then I come up with elaborate and spectacular ways to die. (Sorta like the last charge of The 300.) Just so that I can have a new character to start with.

    In a decade of no-reloading, I have yet to successfully finish a trilogy run from Candlekeep to the Throne.
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 4,439
    That's what a no-reload is.

    But it is your game. If you do not want to see those 60 hours wasted, go ahead and reload and finish the run.

    If you really want to attempt a no-reload, challenge yourself in your next play through to at least get further than your last character before having to reload. Eventually, through trial and error and maybe some luck, you'll get through a complete no reload run.
    Aerakar
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 1,133
    Scratch and plan a new character.
  • EnuhalEnuhal Member Posts: 183
    I immediately go and delete all my saves and try to forget about the previous run. What's done is done. I can only remember two occasions where I actually finished a run as a minimal-reload game after dying once (one time to fully experience SoD for the first time, one time to test if I'd be able to kill Amelyssan with a solo totemic druid).
    StummvonBordwehr
  • OrlonKronsteenOrlonKronsteen Member Posts: 342
    Here's a question: what do you do when you die from no fault of your own, such as being ambushed by a large ring of archers during an area transition? Typical random encounters are one thing, but these archer ambushes (usually either undead or bandits) are cheesily unfair and wipe out your party in seconds. Or what happens if there's a glitch - such as when your mage or cleric gets stuck in the spell casting animation but the spell never fires off?
    ThacoBell
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 4,039
    Scream. Nearly smash my keyboard. And deinstall the game for the time being. Pretty much in that order.
    Dev6SkatanBalrog99Mortianna
  • YgramulYgramul Member Posts: 1,018
    Enuhal said:

    I immediately go and delete all my saves and try to forget about the previous run.

    Oh, yes, me too.

    It removes all temptation.

    Also, there is something cathartic about having your save folder empty when you starting a new character.
    EnuhalTheGraveDiggerStummvonBordwehr
  • TheGraveDiggerTheGraveDigger Member Posts: 327
    If a party member dies I boot their corpse from the party. If I die I delete my saves. I've completed the entire saga twice without ever dying or raising anyone. Almost did it a third time but failed because of a BUG at the end of ToB.

    Many times the NPCs will die before you finish their quests or romance. Sometimes an entire area will become hostile due to an accident or whatever, meaning you miss all the quests and vendors in the place. In my last game I reached Imoen in Spellhold only to see her die 30 seconds later to that crushing wall trap. It can be a real pain in the arse but I just can't play any other way.
    Aerakar
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 6,653
    If a bug caused the death, then the run continues as a no-reload run. I've tried continuing a failed no-reload as a minimal reload run instead, but then I got weary and started over.

    If I die during a difficult battle, I'll usually re-play it and win before I abandon the run.
    OrlonKronsteenSkatanGreenWarlockStummvonBordwehr
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 2,023

    Here's a question: what do you do when you die from no fault of your own, such as being ambushed by a large ring of archers during an area transition? Typical random encounters are one thing, but these archer ambushes (usually either undead or bandits) are cheesily unfair and wipe out your party in seconds. Or what happens if there's a glitch - such as when your mage or cleric gets stuck in the spell casting animation but the spell never fires off?

    The only occasion when I would say it's no fault of your own is a rare game-ending bug. Otherwise there are always options. You can avoid bandit ambushes by for instance only travelling during the day or only taking routes that those ambushes don't occur on. You may prefer to take a slight chance by risking an ambush, but be ready to react instantly if one occurs - fast enough to put on armor if you're a fighter / mage for instance. Or you may prefer simply to take your chances and if your number comes up then it's back to Candlekeep - I regularly use all of those strategies depending on my mood o:).

    Most bugs / glitches are actually avoidable. The eternal spell casting animation for instance is normally triggered where you aim the spell at a target requiring the sprite to move and as it moves it breaks the line of sight to the target. Personally I would never reload for anything other than a game-ending bug that's impossible to anticipate or avoid - like the one where you die as a result of the character portrait disappearing - but I'm stricter than many about that.
    OrlonKronsteenAerakarStummvonBordwehr
  • brunardobrunardo Member Posts: 423
    Yeah I just keep track and when I did my last two playthroughs one of my PC's made it through BG1 but BG2/TOB got me a couple of times but was pretty proud playing on insane difficulty
  • PokotaPokota Member Posts: 441
    edited October 13
    For me it depends on how close I got to completion, if I was playing seriously or not, and if my death was due to unfamiliarity or cockiness. For example, Grant Pix got past Davaeorn so I kept playing him, and in my post-death play (he died to Khark because I was a stupid) he got as far as the battle atop Iron Throne before dying because of my unfamiliarity with the battle. Because I'm in unfamiliar territory, I will continue until he's clear of at least Sarevok (and probably further; I've only experienced SoD beyond Boareskye through the reports of others)

    I did not resume previous characters because not one of them made it to the Bandit Camp, let alone Davaeorn. I feel I owe it to Grant Pix to see him through. (Though admittedly my next NRL character won't be a dual class at Figher 6).

    Technically I went into that Iron Throne fight with three reloads as opposed to just one from Khark since I poked around Durlag's Tower after triggering the tour - Grant survived that mess, but nobody else did - which now I remember why that's such a phenomenally bad idea, and that other reload before that was just me reveling in having Power Word: Reload back in my arsenal.

    To contrast, Midge Sempsin (a Wild Mage who used NRD to brush her hair) was a one-shot joke.
  • GreenWarlockGreenWarlock Member Posts: 1,125
    I blatantly cheat myself and reload, saying "just this once..."
    Grond0StummvonBordwehrThacoBellAerakar
  • JoenSoJoenSo Member Posts: 202
    As a kid I used to play this game called Escape Velocity. When you started a new game you could choose to do a no-reload run and then it would automatically delete all your saves if you died. As someone who reloads if a character takes too much damage in a fight, I shudder at the thought.
    GreenWarlockZaghoul
  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member Posts: 1,599

    JoenSo said:

    As a kid I used to play this game called Escape Velocity. When you started a new game you could choose to do a no-reload run and then it would automatically delete all your saves if you died. As someone who reloads if a character takes too much damage in a fight, I shudder at the thought.

    Every action rpg since Diablo, as far as I'm aware, has a "hardcore" mode where it does that - it erases your character and saves as soon as you die. I'm like you, and I also shudder at the thought of having 20-60 hours of my gaming time erased in an instant, so I don't play "hardcore" in my action rpg's and never will.

    I often wonder if the BG no-reload culture was an offshoot of the "hardcore" player base that we see in the many Diablo clones that have been made since the 1990's. And possibly that was descended from the arcade style video games from the 1980's - although in those, you usually had three "lives" per quarter, and could earn bonus "lives" in the game. Toward the end of the age of arcades, they started making the games such that they would pause after your third "death", and give you 15 seconds to insert another quarter to keep playing on that level. And then came Nintendo...

    You know, the history of "hardcore" modes and no-reload game communities might make a very interesting documentary. I wonder if one has been made?
    Lawd, the money I spent in the arcades in the eighties. I remember the timer countdown ya had to keep playing with another quarter was just to strong to resist sometimes. B)


    AerakarBelgarathMTH
  • Mantis37Mantis37 Member Posts: 378
    Diablo itself was a derivative of the procedually generated gameplay of roguelikes- and a rather simplified and repetitive one in my humble opinion. In roguelikes of course save scumming is usually frowned upon- and similarly in simulation games like sports sims. From my misspent youth I can't actually remember the first game I played where the option to redo from a previous save was available. The mechanic of multiple 'lives' was perhaps the transitionary phase. My transition to no-reloading was achieved through trying limited reloads where an npc died instead of the main character if things went wrong...
  • GreenWarlockGreenWarlock Member Posts: 1,125
    Game saves were a staple of the text adventure games from even the 70s, so have been around for a long time. In fact, a large point of the game save in a text adventure was that the early games were extremely unforgiving, and would kill your character on the slightest whim, so the save-scumming restart-from-last-save mechanic was really intended. However, these were more puzzle games, intended to take weeks or months to solve in an era when the common idea of a video game was feeding coins into a Space Invaders or Pacman machine - those games had no need for a save mechanic.
  • DrakeICNDrakeICN Member Posts: 348
    edited October 16
    JoenSo said:

    As a kid I used to play this game called Escape Velocity. When you started a new game you could choose to do a no-reload run and then it would automatically delete all your saves if you died. As someone who reloads if a character takes too much damage in a fight, I shudder at the thought.

    Yeah, but in that game, you have an escape pod, and the ships starts blaring "EEEEUUUUEEEEUUUEEEUUU" before it blows up.

    I REALLY dont get no reload runs for a game like BG, because like you said, that is 60 hours of your life not coming back. On top of that, fail some random saving throw = instadeath. That has nothing to do with your skill, it is russian roulette built into the engine. I get it for that Sin game, because a complete run is at most a couple of hours. Or if you are just trying out a build, and have no intention of finishing the game anyways.

    What I would do, if I were you, was to reload the battle, but have your main drink a potion of invisibility approximately as far into the battle where he / she died last time, and see if the rest of the party can defeat the enemy w/o you. If they can, fantastic. Rush to a temple of helm, drop something worth 600 gold or so, and have your main come out of invisibility. No cheating, you were raised from the dead!!!
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 4,377
    @DrakeICN , The challenge that they enjoy, I think, is working around all those bad-luck possibilities and collecting the knowledge to do so. @Alesia_BH once told me that she considers it a personal failure if her character ever has to roll a saving throw.

    Through reading her no-reload runs, I learned that she has every enemy script in the game memorized. She knows exactly which spells they're about to cast and when, or which special attacks they're about to make, and is always prepared with strategies to avoid the dangers, such as gulping a potion of invisibility the second she hears "Praesis..."

    While I can't and shouldn't try to speak for the no-reload veterans, I believe their pleasure comes from the sense of accomplishment they get from going through the game with various kinds of characters and winning without reloads. The concentration required to keep track of all the different encounters probably gets them into "the zone", which they find to be an enjoyable experience. Plus, they get to prove that "it can be done", take some credit for proving it, and for advancing knowledge about the game.

    I guess they enjoy the Baldur's Gate hobby at a more serious level than more casual players like me. I have been influenced by years of interaction with them, though.

    I hate reloading and it causes me great pain to do so. I always accept consequences in the game and never reload unless I die. Sometimes, I don't feel like playing the character any more after a death, and sometimes I do. I want the choice, though. So I don't take it quite as far as the no-reloaders do. But I think I get why they like it.
    ArctodusOrlonKronsteenGreenWarlockStummvonBordwehr
  • GreenWarlockGreenWarlock Member Posts: 1,125
    One way no-reloads work well is when the game is 20 years old, and you have beaten it many times with a variety of characters. The joy of discovery of some new part of the game is long passed, you are visiting old friends, and no-reload is generally a bigger difficult tweak that playing with the difficulty slider.

    The most obvious change is that you play super-conservatively, taking away the free-wheeling spirit of exploration that is one of the hallmarks of the BG series, but that is not necessarily a bad thing, as you gain a stronger appreciation of other aspects of the game to compensate.

    One of the most obvious examples is charged items like wands and potions. If I am not playing no (or really minimal) reloads, then these either either currency for me, saving for the expensive items I crave like mage robes, or fastidiously saved and never used, waiting for that time that they are /really/ needed. In a no-reload game, these are needed all the time, and not just the major items and potions - many more find a use.

    In practice, no reload is not for me, as I rarely get to the end of a game, and don't want to give up those 60+ hours invested if a character is going well. I do love to flirt with the idea and tend towards minimal reload, as investing more value in the disposable kit it a huge enrichment of the game.
    BelgarathMTHOrlonKronsteen
  • ElendarElendar Member Posts: 807
    Never cared to even try a no reload game. I probably abuse resting and power word reload a bit too much, but to give up playing a game just because of a bit of bad luck or even because of a poor decision because you had too much beer seems just insane to me. Maybe because I have to make time just for a regular playthrough of the game already.. if I had unlimited time and real life would just go away, maybe I could do a no reload or two.
    DrakeICNsemiticgodOrlonKronsteen
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 6,653
    Elendar said:

    to give up playing a game just because of a bit of bad luck or even because of a poor decision because you had too much beer seems just insane to me.

    Well, I can't argue with that.
  • DrakeICNDrakeICN Member Posts: 348
    edited October 16
    Elendar said:

    Never cared to even try a no reload game. I probably abuse resting and power word reload a bit too much, but to give up playing a game just because of a bit of bad luck or even because of a poor decision because you had too much beer seems just insane to me. Maybe because I have to make time just for a regular playthrough of the game already.. if I had unlimited time and real life would just go away, maybe I could do a no reload or two.

    Hear hear! I used to be a Diablo 2 junkie*, (no, not endless Bhaal runs with hammer paladin because that is boring as fuck, but a melee sorc in hell difficulty and yes I can defeat Diablo in hell difficulty with that build because that is how I roll y'all), and now recently I got a bit hooked on Grim Dawn but I would still NEVER attempt a BG no reload run.

    It is as they say; The taste is like the ass - Divided

    *I stopped because of the insanely low drop ratings AND the arbitrary way über Diablo shows up. Both those things are designed to waste a lifetime, or build a bot army, or pay someone for items he harvested with his bot army. Up yours Blizzard!
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