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Suggestions Thread: Game Mechanics (scripts, spells, feats, combat)

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  • ArgyleArgyle Member Posts: 48
    I would like to see "Limited Wish" and "Wish" back in the Wizard spell lists, but with some slight improvements over BG II. BG II did a pretty good job with Limited Wish to make it worth taking, but Wish was far too often useless even with a high wisdom. I can accept the idea of some degree of randomness, but there should be more good options with high wisdom.

    I'd also like to add one more option for Wish, which is to "Time Warp" back before an encounter occurred. The mechanics of course are simple, just reload the last saved game! This gives a legitimate rationale for reload. I am not sure how that would in a multi-player game, however, so if anyone has an idea please post below.
  • TerrorbleTerrorble Member Posts: 169
    edited January 2018
    The functions and hooks Belanor mentioned above (page 5) would be amazing - and would likely cover most of what I want.

    Things important to me:
    1. a customizable HiPS/stealth cooldown, OnToggle hook, etc
    2. ability to corner sneak against AI
    3. Improved shifting and polymorph options:

    Forgive me if I don't remember the details correctly, but I want the option to modify or set a lower limit to a player's base stat instead of use it or replace it when shifting.

    A.
    Currently, if I want to cast shapechange to become a balor, my STR is 24. I can mix and match classes, feats and abilities, merge different items, etc. to try and be a better balor, but no matter what, my STR is 24. What if I wanted to be an extra strong balor and took great strength feats or invested heavily in my base STR: it doesn't matter, I still get 24 STR.

    *edit*
    I envision something like a column in polymorph.2da that can substitute a minimum stat if the player's base stat is lower than that, but uses the player's base stat if it's higher. And/or, a column that allows you to modify the player's base stat by a certain amount (this is different than just adding a +4 STR bonus to the shape's hide). I think it opens up a wider range of shifter/polymorph build options.

    Alternatively, have a spot for a starting conditional-like script and we can determine what number we want assigned.
    */edit*
    B.
    Along with that, if we could specify more easily when shapes receive epic/improved versions. Again, you can more smoothly improve your shapes with dedication to the class.

    C.
    And since I'm asking, an option to be able to mark all/certain spells as castable while shifted couldn't hurt.

    Post edited by Terrorble on
  • ShadooowShadooow Member Posts: 402
    Terrorble said:

    2. ability to corner sneak against AI

    corner sneaking is doable in vanilla, but it has very specific conditions

    If you are initiating from corner (or any obstance that provides cover) then you should be able to sneak on first flurry granted you win initiative check or monster's AI won't notice you before you get close enough.

    If you are already in combat and you are running behind corner (or any obstance providing cover) then you must use hide skill and have higher hiding skill than enemy's spot. Without hide or another similar ability (invisibility, sanctuary), you won't be able to sneak in this scenario. Note that even when you are hidden and monster shouldn't see you, it will be able to attack you regardless. HIPS is needed to break the enemy attack.

    Using ranged weapons makes corner sneaking easier and you can avoid being attacked if you have enough speed to outrun him and run from cover to cover. Basically if you have a room with bigger pillar in middle of it or some kind of big statue, you can run around the it in circles and be able to sneak on regular basis without being hit.

    Theoretically, if you run long enough to lose combat status, then sneak from corner should be doable without hide if you time it precisely and win new initiative check. I don't have this tested though.
  • SherincallSherincall Member Posts: 387

    Make script object-oriented for faster use and less commands per second being run. Keep all vanilla functions working for backward compatibility.

    There wouldn't be less commands per seconds run. You'd just not see them because they'd be hidden behind nicer syntax sugar. NWScript is already "object oriented" when compiled (in that the methods are dispatched based on type on the engine side), it just doesn't have a syntax typically associated with OOP languages (like C++). There could be a different cc1 frontend that supports a different syntax (e.g. "oPC.name" instead of "GetName(oPC)"), but the compiled code would be pretty much the same.
  • bbgun21bbgun21 Member Posts: 16
    I've got two suggestions which hopefully the team might be able to make:

    - Higher draw distance

    The draw distance in the original is very low, and I'm not sure if this is in some specific areas or whether it depends on daytime or nighttime but I believe this should be increased a tad bit, especially from preventing enemies popping up suddenly and attacking/detecting you before you detect them.

    - AOE circles

    As you may know, there are no AOE circles in the NWN1 (whereas they are present in NWN2) with AOE spells like Fireball, Ice Storm, Horrid Wilting etc... nor there are similar things for cone-area spells and I honestly wish this will be added in the EE since it would help to know that you won't damage yourself or your henchmen whilst targeting some enemy with a Fireball.
  • TakhisisTakhisis Member Posts: 6
    edited January 2018
    This is primarily a builder convenience, I know, but - would it be possible to make it so that more than one feat could be associated with a Deity's Domain?

    Chiefly, I want this so that a Domain could hypothetically grant a token-bonus - like Darkvision (for instance) for a "Darkness" domain, while still having a Descriptor feat that can be associated with the domain itself; and shows up on the character sheet to let the character refer back and see what they took in the first place.

    Additionally, I'm actually slightly curious - but it somehow slipped my mind to mention it ever before. With the existence of the bleed-on-death effect (already similar, but is immediately repealed by healing), is it possible to implement a proper Damage-over-time function - as opposite to Regeneration (adjustable duration, potentially set as an item property, etc)? It's subtle, but if it could be done, it's slightly more system-effective when translated onto spells like Acid Arrow than using Pseudo-Heartbeat events; which can be a big processor boost over the course of several casts (re: 3 consecutive acid arrows cast in 3 different areas would cause about the same amount of lag as the same amount of strikes with a weapon with the "Wounding" property).

    Sorry about previously posting outside the suggestion thread, by the by! Didn't notice it ^^'
  • AnonySimonAnonySimon Member Posts: 28
    edited January 2018
    Item Properties:
    - Add a material list for armor, shields, and weapons (adamantine, cold iron, ironwood, mithril, silver, steal, stone, wood, etc). For weapons, this is important for overcoming certain damage reduction (cold iron for fey, silver for werewolves, etc). For armor, this can bestow things like DR/- for Adamintine, or reduced ACP, Weight, and ASF for Mithril.
    - Add a checkbox to armor properties which states whether the armor or shield is or is not made of metal (important for druids, as they cannot wear metal armor without losing the ability to cast spells).
  • ProlericProleric Member Posts: 1,281
    @bbgun21 - good point on draw distance. In particular, there ought to be an option for creatures and dynamic placeables to render within the fog distance. At present, creatures can be tweaked in ranges.2da, but dynamic placeables fade at about 40m no matter what you do.
  • fot1fot1 Member Posts: 74
    edited January 2018
    Any chance we have arrays in the scripting? Or at least something that allows us to make a linked list with the current structure.

    The existing compilers from outside of the toolset are broken. I'm not sure what the plans for toolset, but you could consider coding some tools to do stuff from outside o the environment. The existing tools that IO tried are mostly broken or bugged. Some interesting tools:
    * Script Compiler
    * Dialog Compiler
    * Mount and Dismount the .mod
  • SherincallSherincall Member Posts: 387
    Linked lists are mostly doable in nwscript as is with local variables. Here's a quick proof of concept: https://code.nwnx.io/snippets/6

    Now, even though the nwscript instructions are constant, some of those engine functions that are called grow slower the more variables there are. Guess we could request CNWSScriptVarTable to switch to a hashmap implementation, but I don't think the need is that big. Scripts are almost never a perf bottleneck.
  • ShadooowShadooow Member Posts: 402
    fot1 said:

    Any chance we have arrays in the scripting? Or at least something that allows us to make a linked list with the current structure.

    https://neverwintervault.org/project/nwn1/script/scripting-library-pseudo-list-v4
  • TorgrimmerTorgrimmer Member Posts: 331
    In the main official NWN:EE Campaign the starting level needs to be fixed. If you chooses to go through the Academy Tutorial, which for your very first toon u must but after that its optional, you start the game out at lvl 3, if you choose to skip it and start Chap.1 in the Temple, you start at Lvl 1. so i think this needs to be addressed.

    (Moved from OC; plz delete post: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/68227/fix-the-starting-level#latest)
  • ShadowMShadowM Member Posts: 573
    edited January 2018
    Give us void SetCorpseDecayTime(object oCreature,float fTime) / float GetCorpseDecayTime(object oCreature)

    These function will allows us to do a universal corpse system instead of on a individual basis or using custom system with placables.
  • OJDrinkerOJDrinker Member Posts: 1
    I apologize if any of these have been mentioned already, but the combat system is a mess.
    I suggest...
    ... fixing drinking potions or other actions to not remove you from combat, making you vunerable to sneak attack and have no dex bonus to ac. (counting as flat-footed when you draw an attack of opportunity kind of defeats the purpose of trying to heal, and artificially inflates difficulty... also doesn't fit the rules, you're still in combat)
    ... fixing when switching targets causes you to forfeit the rest of your attacks for the round. Strategy good.
    ... making monk circle kick not cause you to switch targets. Random bad.
    ... to make the characters enter combat more reliably when attacked (as in, always) as when standing there not in combat, counting as flat-footed for multiple rounds instead of just the first, is very not cool. (This would also fix any "the monster is simply not displayed on your screen so you can't select it" issues, if they still exist, at least for non-caster characters.)
    ... making parry function as described, instead of broken or whatever is wrong with it.
    ... not requiring a character to slow down and stop before making a melee attack... chasing something is literally useless, even when it's slower than you.
    ... fixing (or removing) attacks on opportunity based on movement. In D&D, attacks of opportunity for someone moving occur when moving from a place you can attack, to another place you can attack. It's like the game sometimes (whenever it feels like it) treats combat like everyone has a reach weapon. Running away doesn't draw attacks of opportunity. Moving closer doesn't draw attacks of opportunity. Unless of course, the attacker has a polearm or other weapon with reach.
    ... removing the animation for attacks of opportunity and cleave so they happen instantly, like they did in NWN2. Having them take time disrupts the flow of combat (and really screws up the messages)

    And that's just off the top of my head.
  • DerpCityDerpCity Member, Moderator Posts: 303
    edited January 2018
    @OJDrinker I agree with couple of your points, particularly those on circle kick and parry, but I absolutely hated not seeing the attacks of opportunity and cleave animations in NWN2. I don't know what issues you had with the messages, but it was rather immersion breaking to see everything around me just explode when you had great cleave, or a random slash line to appear when either cleave or an attack of opportunity happened. I prefer to see them get struck down by my character and not the omnipotent-slashy-lines that erupt from them.
  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,176
    edited January 2018
    Some spells like Acid Fog in PnP isn't affected by spell resistance and don't allow save while in game, this doesn't apply

    http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/acidFog.htm

    http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Acid_fog

    Other example? Incendiary cloud. In nwn his range is far more limited and in pnp incendiary cloud won't allow SR

    http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/incendiaryCloud.htm

    http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Incendiary_cloud

    Also, please. Let me have unlimited summons as default. An army of helmed horror will be amazing. And please make some classes that gives more "caster level" like Pale Master gives in game too. I wanna make an Ainz Ooal Gown and in default nwn took a lot of work with hakpaks. In PnP, Pale master give more caster level https://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Pale_Master,_Rebuild_(3.5e_Prestige_Class)
  • ShadooowShadooow Member Posts: 402

    Some spells like Acid Fog in PnP isn't affected by spell resistance and don't allow save while in game, this doesn't apply

    http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/acidFog.htm

    http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Acid_fog

    Other example? Incendiary cloud. In nwn his range is far more limited and in pnp incendiary cloud won't allow SR

    http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/incendiaryCloud.htm

    http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Incendiary_cloud

    Also, please. Let me have unlimited summons as default. An army of helmed horror will be amazing. And please make some classes that gives more "caster level" like Pale Master gives in game too. I wanna make an Ainz Ooal Gown and in default nwn took a lot of work with hakpaks. In PnP, Pale master give more caster level https://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Pale_Master,_Rebuild_(3.5e_Prestige_Class)

    All of this can be done using community patch. I don't even think BeamDog could do this. The NWN community doesn't consider these issues as bugs and even if you get this to trello players won't agree on anything. Half of them will want it and half won't.

    And this is easy to do using custom content and it is already done.

    Get community patch for NWN:EE, spawn PC Widget Tool and enable the extra module rules to:
    - make all AOE spells ignore SR as is in PnP
    - enable unlimited summoning
    - enable PM to add caster level
  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,176
    Shadooow said:

    Some spells like Acid Fog in PnP isn't affected by spell resistance and don't allow save while in game, this doesn't apply

    http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/acidFog.htm

    http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Acid_fog

    Other example? Incendiary cloud. In nwn his range is far more limited and in pnp incendiary cloud won't allow SR

    http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/incendiaryCloud.htm

    http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Incendiary_cloud

    Also, please. Let me have unlimited summons as default. An army of helmed horror will be amazing. And please make some classes that gives more "caster level" like Pale Master gives in game too. I wanna make an Ainz Ooal Gown and in default nwn took a lot of work with hakpaks. In PnP, Pale master give more caster level https://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Pale_Master,_Rebuild_(3.5e_Prestige_Class)

    All of this can be done using community patch. I don't even think BeamDog could do this. The NWN community doesn't consider these issues as bugs and even if you get this to trello players won't agree on anything. Half of them will want it and half won't.

    And this is easy to do using custom content and it is already done.

    Get community patch for NWN:EE, spawn PC Widget Tool and enable the extra module rules to:
    - make all AOE spells ignore SR as is in PnP
    - enable unlimited summoning
    - enable PM to add caster level
    I think that a DnD game should be like DnD. Don't artificially nerf casters.
  • NWC_SnakeNWC_Snake Member Posts: 1
    My friend and former co-developer Syrus Greycloak of the Sacred Silver Blades guild put in an extraordinary amount of work on new spell addition. He created a hakpak called "The Grimoire" that includes an incredible wealth of new spells, both scripts and visual effects. It would be a good idea to take a look at it and see what you might want to incorporate into NWN:EE.

    https://neverwintervault.org/project/nwn1/hakpak/original-hakpak/grimoire
  • perfidiousperfidious Member Posts: 2
    Fix the bug that causes stealthed PCs and NPCs to be briefly revealed to a player entering an area.
  • Sunssarathi2029Sunssarathi2029 Member Posts: 32
    I think that what NWN EE needs most is ability to add/remove feats and spells with scripts. Many modules uses skin system to imitate this. Allowing this in game would not need any UI rework.
    Second it would be good to unlock all character options to be modifiable wia scripting (Belt of Dwarven feminity).
  • TerrorbleTerrorble Member Posts: 169
    A request about item properties or at least functions that can modify initiative. (I didn't see one already)

    I originally wanted to modify initiative or have a way to grant it as an item property because of HiPS spam. But I think being able to modify it and Improved Initiative and Superior Initiative feats would be a useful option for world builders anyway.

    Say you're a melee build who gets attacked by a epic dodging HiPSter that spams it. Often times you can do nothing because: one, you lose initiative; two, they spam HiPS; and three, even if you beat their hide check you still can't hit them because they are walking away and the game won't let you make an attack.

    The above conglomeration of mechanics and my inability to do much of anything about any of them frustrated me on many occasions.
  • CrazyMoaiCrazyMoai Member Posts: 1
    edited January 2018
    I'd love to be able to pass a parameter to a script when calling it from a conversation. I think that nwn2 did this.

    This would allow to have one simple script to handle all the branches of a given conversation.

    I would also like to be able to have some kind of filtering in, at least, the script section of the toolset in order to organize the scripts in categories and subcategories.
  • merricksdadmerricksdad Member Posts: 14
    To clarify my suggestion of the unidentified item icon, I currently make weapon models with VFX on the model, rather than using the standard VFX overlay. This allows me hundreds of VFX combinations and varieties. I also put an elemental indicator on the item icon. An icon of the same item which is unidentified might not have all properties revealed. If a weapon has a command word or requires mental control to wield a power, maybe a flaming sword does not simply turn on when brandished. I don't remember which one it was, but another game had unidentified item icons be a basic version of the item you were examining. A flaming sword unidentified may appear as a plain old sword.
  • merricksdadmerricksdad Member Posts: 14
    And now for a continued list of mechanical upgrades:
    • Tiles gain more light nodes that can be turned on and off.
    • Tiles gain more animations.
    • Tiles' elevation map can be modified easier.
    • Placeable elevation map and blocking modes are properly handled across tile edges.
    • Placeables can have wearable nodes without having to be turned into characters.
    • Placeables have more nodes which can be targeted with beam fx. Or better yet, all objects can have dummy nodes which can be targeted by name.
    • Placeables gain more animations which can be called by name.
    • Character and placeable mouse-over highlighting can be disabled.
    • New visual methods of mouse-over highlighting on characters and placeables.
    • Create a single smoothing group that carries across tiles to help hide seams without having to increase the poly count of every damn tile.
    • Unlimited footstep sounds on terrain types (open the 2da).
    • Diagonal tile pathnodes of a few varieties, or add corner nodes, instead of just edge nodes.
    • Transparent color in PLT item coloring.
    • Wearables can have more than 3 sub-parts, each with a mesh.
    • Make flowing water a very simple TXI command. (and document better all TXI functions)
    • Ability to stack TXI altered textures without them going funky.
    • Fix order of VFX do not punch through an object they are attached to, even if they weren't told use any kind of punch through function. (For instance, a group of my skeletons with the flaming abdomen...the flames show in the wrong order depending on how the skeletons are standing)
    • Chain lighting... real chain lightning. Any chain spell attack.
    • Contingent spells without hours of scripting to fake them.
  • jorahkaijorahkai Member Posts: 2
    Hi Symphony!

    What version of D&D is the game using?

    Any chance to update to the current 5e familiar with tabletop players these days? I think it's really tidy and updated, streamlined with lots of great new features that modern players would be comfortable with.

    As a long time player of all kinds of D&D and D&D games, I'd love to see this release go to 5e, including abilities, leveling progression, feats, combat with advantage and disadvantage, multiclassing basically take the PHB and DMG from D&D 5e and plug it into your rebuild of the game mechanics! I think that would be a huge thing :)

  • HunterRayder93HunterRayder93 Member Posts: 266
    jorahkai said:


    What version of D&D is the game using?

    It has been repeated several times that the game uses the rule set 3.0

  • merricksdadmerricksdad Member Posts: 14
    The real answer is that the game is not using 3.0, but a modified version of 3.0 that greatly takes away from the intended mechanics of 3.0. We say that it's 3.0, because 3.0 was intended for heavy modification, however, I see it as departing 3.0 because base mechanics were changed, but no additional modification to those base mechanics can be made by the DM without opening the engine. That is contrary to the intent of 3.0. In many ways, I don't personally see NWN as DND at all, but opening the engine a bit more for further modification would definitely right that issue.

    With some heavy scripting, I was able to nearly duplicate 4.0. Certain parts of the GUI had to be ignored, but it was workable...just clunky. I have no doubt that the same could be done for 5.0.

    This all means that the answer is that it doesn't matter what version the engine is using. Parts are hard-coded, but the majority is evolvable.
  • Dark_AnsemDark_Ansem Member Posts: 992

    The real answer is that the game is not using 3.0, but a modified version of 3.0 that greatly takes away from the intended mechanics of 3.0. We say that it's 3.0, because 3.0 was intended for heavy modification, however, I see it as departing 3.0 because base mechanics were changed, but no additional modification to those base mechanics can be made by the DM without opening the engine. That is contrary to the intent of 3.0. In many ways, I don't personally see NWN as DND at all, but opening the engine a bit more for further modification would definitely right that issue.

    With some heavy scripting, I was able to nearly duplicate 4.0. Certain parts of the GUI had to be ignored, but it was workable...just clunky. I have no doubt that the same could be done for 5.0.

    This all means that the answer is that it doesn't matter what version the engine is using. Parts are hard-coded, but the majority is evolvable.

    How did it affect performance?
  • merricksdadmerricksdad Member Posts: 14
    You mean making it behave like 4e? It was just as good as vanilla IMO. You just have WAY more control over your 4e style spells and powers. I also liked the custom spell and powers scripts I based on how minion-level creatures worked, and also how focus items were used. The hardest part was recharging spells and powers in a different time frame. I made daily powers recharge as normal on any real rest. The others I put on timers.

    What was really difficult was making henchmen behave how vanilla had them. I ended up taking that out and using an old charisma-based system I made for 2e, and then modified the scripts for "henchmen". They became more autonomous, and you didn't get to control them as normal. They could pick up on some "talk" based commands, but otherwise they felt more alive and like a person than an extension of your GUI.

    I also took out all encounter spawners and made my own that worked off waypoints and radii. I will admit that this part did slow down areas somewhat at first. But once they got going, it sped up greatly. Creatures "killed" were recycled instead of made dead and erased. I keep an unreachable chamber in the corner of a map and put all the "dead" units in there. Areas where spawner creatures existed would pull from the pool instead of making new monster instances, which drags the server if you use random tables. A few just made normal spawns, but ones that spawned armies had to be recycled to keep the speed up, or I'd get serious rate drops as they spawned.

    The spell scripts became a mile long, but they worked really well. I was able to duplicate or substitute every 4e power. The ones that push and pull were the hardest. I tried real push and pull effects using teleport-like functions. It worked a lot of the time, but other times the unit refused to jump. What I did was make them double jump. If you ask them to jump in small distances, they often refuse, or seem to slide. Instead I made them jump away and jump back. Almost all the calls had to be from other objects to get this to work properly, so I kept invisible forcing dummies all over the place. I have a lot of hope that NWN:EE can fix some of that and making it smoother. If so, I might put out the scripts.

    It was a bit much work for the effect, but to have that much control over sorcerer-like spells in NWN was really fun, and for every "class". I started making a ton of variety spells and feats to go with them. There was also a need to revamp every single table for saves, and redo ALL the weapon feats. That was a pain in the ass, but it worked. As long as all the items were redone too.

    One part that kept people from doing this before, as I found out, was that the entire combat loop had to be modified. Not just modified, but circumvented. There ended up being a TON of feat and inventory checking with every step. It was madness, but it didn't slow the engine down as much as I expected.
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