You mean making it behave like 4e? It was just as good as vanilla IMO. You just have WAY more control over your 4e style spells and powers. I also liked the custom spell and powers scripts I based on how minion-level creatures worked, and also how focus items were used. The hardest part was recharging spells and powers in a different time frame. I made daily powers recharge as normal on any real rest. The others I put on timers.
What was really difficult was making henchmen behave how vanilla had them. I ended up taking that out and using an old charisma-based system I made for 2e, and then modified the scripts for "henchmen". They became more autonomous, and you didn't get to control them as normal. They could pick up on some "talk" based commands, but otherwise they felt more alive and like a person than an extension of your GUI.
I also took out all encounter spawners and made my own that worked off waypoints and radii. I will admit that this part did slow down areas somewhat at first. But once they got going, it sped up greatly. Creatures "killed" were recycled instead of made dead and erased. I keep an unreachable chamber in the corner of a map and put all the "dead" units in there. Areas where spawner creatures existed would pull from the pool instead of making new monster instances, which drags the server if you use random tables. A few just made normal spawns, but ones that spawned armies had to be recycled to keep the speed up, or I'd get serious rate drops as they spawned.
The spell scripts became a mile long, but they worked really well. I was able to duplicate or substitute every 4e power. The ones that push and pull were the hardest. I tried real push and pull effects using teleport-like functions. It worked a lot of the time, but other times the unit refused to jump. What I did was make them double jump. If you ask them to jump in small distances, they often refuse, or seem to slide. Instead I made them jump away and jump back. Almost all the calls had to be from other objects to get this to work properly, so I kept invisible forcing dummies all over the place. I have a lot of hope that NWN:EE can fix some of that and making it smoother. If so, I might put out the scripts.
It was a bit much work for the effect, but to have that much control over sorcerer-like spells in NWN was really fun, and for every "class". I started making a ton of variety spells and feats to go with them. There was also a need to revamp every single table for saves, and redo ALL the weapon feats. That was a pain in the ass, but it worked. As long as all the items were redone too.
One part that kept people from doing this before, as I found out, was that the entire combat loop had to be modified. Not just modified, but circumvented. There ended up being a TON of feat and inventory checking with every step. It was madness, but it didn't slow the engine down as much as I expected.
I don't suppose you'd be willing to release as Proof of Concept, would you?
Not at the moment no. If they fix a few of the issues I don't like when they make some serious changes to EE, then I'll put the entire module out. Until then, the biggest thing keeping me from releasing it is that it has a bunch of plot stuff in it that I don't want to remove just so I can have a proof of concept out there. The plot stuff goes with a book I 90% wrote a few years ago, which is not published yet. Maybe it's 80% haha.
My hope is that Beamdog does actually make some of these changes. My problem with them ATM is that they're really focused on not breaking backward compatibility. That's actually the thing keeping me from buying EE at the moment. Without breaking at least some of the features (because they were done so horribly before), I can't invest in a pretty clone of the same old thing. The way GUI and scripts behave, IMO, must be destroyed and redone, or the benefit of the new version isn't worth it to me. Until then, I can make 1001 suggestions they're just going to put on ice.
Which part of the 4e experience are you most interested in implementing yourself? I would show some clipped specifics in those areas. I would be willing to do tiny proofs to show how certain aspects could be changed and what their effects end up being, but not the whole thing at once.
Just thought of a new addition, can it be made possible to set a Natural Armor Bonus onto player characters like you can with monsters? This could help with the implementation of custom player race and feats, and since I like using Leto to make playable monster characters I would like to see it included. Granted, Leto would need a patch to actually use the feature, but if it was settable by script I'd be fine.
In case others ask why I don't just use a script to apply a natural armor bonus, I normally do through a modified player tool, and it unfortunately doesn't stack with an Amulet of Natural Armor (not that monster races particularly need it when 99% of the monstrous races in PnP have +5 natural armor). Besides, it shows up in the corner as a buff, which is less than desirable unless you can hide it.
Not at the moment no. If they fix a few of the issues I don't like when they make some serious changes to EE, then I'll put the entire module out. Until then, the biggest thing keeping me from releasing it is that it has a bunch of plot stuff in it that I don't want to remove just so I can have a proof of concept out there. The plot stuff goes with a book I 90% wrote a few years ago, which is not published yet. Maybe it's 80% haha.
My hope is that Beamdog does actually make some of these changes. My problem with them ATM is that they're really focused on not breaking backward compatibility. That's actually the thing keeping me from buying EE at the moment. Without breaking at least some of the features (because they were done so horribly before), I can't invest in a pretty clone of the same old thing. The way GUI and scripts behave, IMO, must be destroyed and redone, or the benefit of the new version isn't worth it to me. Until then, I can make 1001 suggestions they're just going to put on ice.
Which part of the 4e experience are you most interested in implementing yourself? I would show some clipped specifics in those areas. I would be willing to do tiny proofs to show how certain aspects could be changed and what their effects end up being, but not the whole thing at once.
To oversimplify everything, just turn all your sorcerer-like powers into feats which you pick at level up. I made an alternative spells 2da with more links to thinks like the feat and recharge type (encounter, at-will, daily). If you know the feat ID associated with the power, you can just recharge the feat uses.
Use a line like this to return an encounter power, or modify the timing to suit your needs. DelayCommand(RoundsToSeconds(10), IncrementRemainingFeatUses(oCaster, nFeat));
I called this at the very end of the spell script after the spell was launched. What I actually did was have an include library with a function called PowerRechargeEncounter and PowerRechargeAtWill. I ran both functions at the end of the spell, because I was never sure which use was casting the spell. That function is what grabbed the associated feat and recharged it.
To be more specific, I let players build classes by mixing and matching 4e-like powers. So instead of having these defined classes, they had a pool of powers to pick from that defined the custom class. This allowed players to attempt a reconstruction of 3e kits under a more 4e feel. By modifying all the class level up 2das and specifically changing the optional feats by level and requirement, you can construct a very intersting, yet not overpowered class. Certain feats are used to construct higher level versions of powers, just as with upgrading tree skills in 3e. If your character has certain feats in addition to the ones that give you the feat-power, then the spell script called by the feat use takes that into account and greatly modifies the effect of the spell.
All together, this allows any class you modify this way to have sorcerer-like powers that they can use at will or per encounter. You can make them for specific classes, or do like I did and make them all open so there is really only one class with unlimited modifications. Give your players level-wiping opportunities so they can correct something they don't like within one level of upgrade.
Use slot-based spells for non-combat type stuff. If you want to modify your mage class to be something else, you can use scrolls to learn 4e style non-combat spells. If you like, make it so there is ever only one level of wizard class, then make all the spells 1st level only. Give them all the basic non-combat spells as 0-level. Give them all the slots you think they'll need.
Another option is to tree multiple spells into a single slot. If you want to limit the number of non-combat spells they can use per day from a certain group, put those spells into a group in the 2da and make it so when that spell is cast they are picked from a submenu.
As an added bonus, you can give items bonus feats. This means that spell powers can specifically come from a book or wand or staff or orb, and instead of giving them charges as you would a normal item, you can recharge the feat that is flagged on the character holding the feat-giving item.
This should answer both of your questions, because the answer is the same for both encounter and recharge spells in my mod.
Make Summon Creature VII-IX able to summon Earth Elementals! I know that this was disabled in the original because they tended to get stuck in corridors, but I always found that silly since there are plenty of other equally large or even larger creatures that could be summoned, such as Balors with Gate and Red Dragons with Dragon Knight. Not to mention that you yourself can polymorph into lots of large things...
Allow Pale Master levels to affect the effective level a spell can be cast at. Example: say you have a character with 5 Wizard levels and 10 Pale Master levels. If they were to cast Magic Missile they would cast it at level 5 and get 3 missiles from the wizard levels. I want them to be able to cast it at level 10 and get 5 missiles from the Pale Master levels. I am not sure what people would think about the balance aspects of this change, but to me a Pale Master seemed like a relatively underpowered class who's main thing is summoning stuff. Mind you, I have only ever played with pure classes (meaning I go for 30 levels in a prestige class if I chose one) and in single player.
Make the Flame Twin ability summon a clone that is allied with the caster (current behavior is that it is neutral) so that the caster can gain experience when it kills stuff. Also make the clone's dying Fireball give XP to the summoner of the clone, and, since it explodes on top of the caster, make it unable to hurt the caster.
Edit: on second thought, maybe the dying fireball is already unable to harm the caster... I don't recall... Just check it and make sure.
Magic Item Creation feats: costs and the resulting scroll/ potion/ wand should be based on the character's caster level, not an arbitrary CL for the item.
Allow Pale Master levels to affect the effective level a spell can be cast at. Example: say you have a character with 5 Wizard levels and 10 Pale Master levels. If they were to cast Magic Missile they would cast it at level 5 and get 3 missiles from the wizard levels. I want them to be able to cast it at level 10 and get 5 missiles from the Pale Master levels. I am not sure what people would think about the balance aspects of this change, but to me a Pale Master seemed like a relatively underpowered class who's main thing is summoning stuff. Mind you, I have only ever played with pure classes (meaning I go for 30 levels in a prestige class if I chose one) and in single player.
Make Summon Creature VII-IX able to summon Earth Elementals! I know that this was disabled in the original because they tended to get stuck in corridors, but I always found that silly since there are plenty of other equally large or even larger creatures that could be summoned, such as Balors with Gate and Red Dragons with Dragon Knight. Not to mention that you yourself can polymorph into lots of large things...
Make the Flame Twin ability summon a clone that is allied with the caster (current behavior is that it is neutral) so that the caster can gain experience when it kills stuff. Also make the clone's dying Fireball give XP to the summoner of the clone, and, since it explodes on top of the caster, make it unable to hurt the caster.
Edit: on second thought, maybe the dying fireball is already unable to harm the caster... I don't recall... Just check it and make sure.
@JuliusBorisov Might the Pale Master effective casting level card be altered for generic prestige caster. For now this only affects Pale Masters, however in time I hope Beamdog adds new classes with expansions and it would be nice if such was the default behavior.
The earth elemental thing is a relatively trivial change, any scripter can DIY. I had the impression Bioware omitted them because the large model had trouble navigating in tight spaces in some of the indoor tilesets (etc).
Or you can do something fancier; we've got a system where characters with certain deities and/or elemental domains have increased odds of summoning their aligned elemental type, for example.
It's been ages since I played NWN, but I've been playing PoE and BG:EE recently, so I would like to remind the developers that the purpose of a formation is for the group to travel in the formation, not to arrive at the destination in the formation.
One thing I've wanted for a long time as an item property, within the toolset, is a speed boost like perma expeditious retreat. There is an important distinction between retreat and haste in that it does not effect attack speed, or attacks per round. It is merely a speed boost. With it one could make classic items like boots of speed and not have them be op, as they currently are as they use perma haste.
Monks have a wisdom AC bonus, archers have Zen Archery and the shifters have very meh original forms and a decent epic forms with a terribad AB. The class itself is very fun, but right now it doesn't hold its own against anyone and needs some kind of a boost. I believe, that's the most balanced way to improve shifter without tweaking a lot of numbers.
Add 5 foot step tactical move on pause to control movement in fight without attack of opportunity and to use terrain in combat.
My suggestion is ... when use tactical pause show arrows for next 5 foot step in selected direction action to add in the action queue (animation could be a must :P) to control fighting movement.
So I've been hanging around the Trello Board forums for a bit commenting on things, figured it was time to actually make suggestions rather than just picking apart other peoples' for backwards compatibility concerns. This is a big ole' list but I've tried to organise it somewhat. I've tried to be abstract with my suggestions so that they can be used to make lots of other things - the suggestions follow the format "Suggestion (Example use case)" or "Suggestion - Explanation".
You'll notice it's pretty spellcasting focused - spellcasters kind of feel underpowered compared to martial characters at high levels (the exact opposite of PnP) - DCs and spell damage caps out way before HP and saves do. Suggestions that I know already have a Trello ticket aren't included (e.g. custom spellcasting classes). Apologies if some of these have been listed before, but 11 pages in just 1 of 4 threads is pretty daunting to read through.
Spells Known
Specify spell casting advancement for prestige class in more detail than just "every X levels" (Swiftblade, True Necromancer)
Ability to select spells known at level up for multiple classes (Mystic Theurge, Arcane Hierophant, True Necromancer etc.)
Ability to add Spells Known via Feat, Item etc. (Runestaffs, Knowstones)
Ability to add Spells known from other classes (Advanced Learning for Beguiler/Dread Necromancer/Warmage, Archivist class learning from divine scrolls)
Ability to add Spells known that aren't on any class spell list (Necrotic Tumor and similar feats)
Ability to define how many spells known you pick at level up (Elven Generalist Wizard, Greyhawk Method etc.)
Spell Slots
10th level and above slots. (Improved Spell Capacity)
Ability to add true spell slots that can trigger Bonus Slots from high INT/WIS/CHA etc. (Improved Spell Capacity, Precocious Apprentice)
Ability to modify which ability score is used for bonus spell slots (Illumian Race)
Casting Spells
Ability to increase Caster Level (Practiced Caster, Archmage Spell Power, Ioun Stones, Signature Spell, Domains... there's a lot for this)
Ability to increase DCs (Spell Focus Cold, Illumian Race, sooo many others)
Ability to modify which ability score is used for spell DCs (There's some feats for this that I can't quite remember)
Ability to modify Spell subschools (Archmage/Hierophant - IIRC there's also feats that make all your spells good/evil/law/chaotic etc. which would be neat to make)
Ability to preserve spell casting while polymorphed (Natural Spell, the feat every Druid takes at 6)
True Epic Spellcasting - Epic Spells per day equal to Spellcraft / 10 - PRC compendium does this but it's so damn clunky
Ability to Alter Spell/Ability Damage cap (Enhance Spell Metamagic, Reserves of Strength)
Ability to alter which spells can be Spontaneous cast (Spell Mastery, Bonus Domains - there's also a spell that can temporarily swap your domains)
Ability to reserve a spell slot/distinguish between unused empty slots and used empty slots (Uncanny Forethought)
Ability to have spells not auto-finish when you rest (Persistent Spell)
Ability to alter a spells range type, distance and area (about 5 different metamagics, Archmage/Hierophant classes)
Ability to set spell duration to a particular value (Persistent Spell Metamagic)
Ability to have more than one summoned creature - the PRC compendium manages it but it's hairy and prone to occasionally creating summons that can't be unsummoned.
Metamagic-meta
Metamagic Reduction - Signature Spell, Practical Metamagic etc. - make it configurable, NWN 2's way of doing it is way too restrictive
Metamagic Rods - Who doesn't want to have a Lesser Metamagic Rod of Quickening?
Sudden Metamagic - PRC has this but it's clunky
Alternate means of paying Metamagic costs (Divine Metamagic, that Bard feat that uses Bardic Music)
Character Creation/Leveling up
Substitution Levels - Doing it via prestige class means you can't skip one substitution level but use a later one. Not to mention the whole 3 class limit...
Class Variants - Currently impossible to do this with spellcasting classes (so no Elven Generalist, Fighter Feat Wizard etc.)
Altering hitdice/BAB/saves/skill points given at levelup (substitution levels, Undead Hitdice, things like Dragon Disciple HP and IIRC one of the Tome of Battle classes gets x6 skill points at first level instead of x4)
Extra Feat Lists - Currently cls_*_feats.2da files have List 0 (cannot be picked with bonus feat) 1 (bonus feat or normal feat), 2 (only bonus feat) and 3 (given automatically). It would be nice to have more lists so you could be more restrictive about what feats you can pick at which levels (could be a way of doing substitution levels if combined with above)
Flaws - would be nice to be able to add these for when you don't want to be so feat-starved
Traits - NWN 2 already does Traits and they add a nifty way to mildly customise your character a bit more
Ability to remove multiclass exp penalty - it's a really common houserule and makes complete sense if you look at classes as toolkits rather than archetypes. IMO DnD 3.0/5 Favoured classes really should have been a carrot rather than a stick.
Skills
Ability to add skills as class skills (Cleric Domains and Apprentice feats)
Able Learner Feat (pay 1 skill point for cross-class skills, see NWN 2)
Ability to alter the limit for skill ranks from the standard 3+character level (Laborious Training feat)
NWN 2 style handling of cross-class skills and multiple classes - I'm not sure if correct PnP but its kinda dumb holding off on a class 'till as late as possible for max skill ranks.
Ability to implement how PnP handles unused skill points - see above about hoarding skills until late levels and then picking a class and dumping everything in Tumble.
Ability to add bonus skill ranks that count for feat pre-requisites (E6 epic feats)
Domains/Dieties
Bonus Domains (Extra Domain Feat, some divine casting prestige classes)
Domain Spontaneity - See above about altering spontaneous casting spells
Ability to specify a list of Dieties the players can select
Ability to Restrict Domains to Dieties
Class Features
Ability to modify which stat abilities like Monk AC bonus is based on (Kung fu Genius Feat)
Ability to add Familiars/Animal Companions to other classes (Hexblade)
Ability to have more than one Familiars/Animal Companions (Obtain Familiar)
Ability to acquire a familiar via Feat (Obtain Familiar)
Ability to add familiar types to the available familiars list (Improved Familiar)
Items
Ability to craft Staffs - Staffs will use the Spellcaster's Caster Level if it is higher than the spells stored in it - the 10 minute work day for casters is not fun.
Ability to Assign caster level when crafting scrolls/wands/staffs - using a Scroll of Barkskin with a CL of 3 is just asking to be dispelled by any old random mook.
Ability to override attack range for specific weapons (so you could make a giant weapon with a longer reach)
UI (NWN 2 players may skip this)
Make Power Attack, Combat Expertise, Flurry etc. into Toggle Modes like in NWN 2 (this is so much better than what NWN 1 does)
Ability to create your own custom toggle modes (Bardic Inspirations)
Ability to set the displayed number of remaining uses of a special ability in the hotbar (e.g. have Divine Might/Shield show remaining Turn Undead Uses)
Better Spellcasting UI - see the quickcast UI in NWN 2
Custom UIs - see NWN 2 mod Jegs training module for good use of this
Misc
Ability to pierce immunities - Music of the Gods epic feat (Mind Controlling), Dread Witch class feature (Fear), Frost Witch class feature (Cold)
Ability to add bonuses to stats that count for feat pre-requisites - in PnP Inate bonuses count IIRC
Ability to have more than 2 attacks with an offhand weapon (Greater Two Weapon Fighting, Perfect Two Weapon Fighting)
Ability to alter penalties - you can just add an attack bonus to counteract it but the bonus cap is a thing, even if it's configurable now (Tempest class with Two Weapon Fighting, high level Monk Flurry)
Remove the party size penalty for summoned creatures/familiars/animal companions/etc. - these are class features, not party members
Ability to alter the party size penalty (Leadership - you've paid for it via Feat)
P.S: I know a some of these (like DC and CL increases) *can* be done already, but they currently require you to basically eviscerate every spell script, every .inc file and write your own with no portability at all. Anyone who wants to add to your stuff has to go in, hack your spellcasting include functions and then recompile all your spells. It's not a great way to go about these.
It would be much simpler if there was something like a Visitor pattern design for core game concepts like caster level, class features, etc.; people could then inject their own script into it then without having to hack on things.
Some of this stuff has definitely been said (some of which particularly in depth by the last post which is awesome), so sorry if that's annoying. But I guess the more people say they want things the more likely they are to happen so a few things I would love are:
-More spells and a greater variety. I always play a magic-type (arcane or divine) character, cause they're fricken awesome, and it would be great to have more flexibility in the kind of casters you can play, adapting your play-style and roleplaying accordingly. Also I know that the PRC introduced several new spells but I think it would be more effective and better mechanically and visually if more were implemented in the production of NWN:EE.
-4 classes! (if there's going to be extra content maybe even a higher level cap)
-Following on from this, more magic-themed prestige classes, or even new classes all together! Just off the top of my head things like mystic theurge, improved palemaster (who can summon more than like 1 skeleton or a mummy), something based in planar summoning (both infernal and celestial), lichdom, and there's so many other options too, but I think this post will be too long as it is so I'll move on. (Again I know several things like this were implemented in the PRC pack but again I think it could be effective to include them in the production of NWN:EE
-More and better epic spells
-Magic scaling past level 20 to avoid bias toward fighting classes
-Improved shifter class, more and better creatures with more powers, more flexibility and open to other magic users who can cast polymorph spells not just druids. Casting still allowed while polymorphed, and also not losing any bonus spells (like from items) after polymorphing
-More races and subraces, and maybe even corresponding feats and traits. This would allow an experience of the game from a totally new perspective
-Able learner feat
-Quick looting like BG:EE
-AOE targeting graphics
-Friendly fire setting separate from difficulty setting
-Quick cast menu or maybe even more quickslots
Basically when I play NWN:EE, I want a new and improved experience of a game that I have played and loved since it was released and these are just my thoughts on how it could be made better. If an NPC can do something I wanna be able to do it too (within reason of course), eg. if they can teleport or summon several undead or demons or whatever else, then I think it's cool if the player has the opportunity to do that too, it's just more immersive that way I think. Anyways, sorry again for any repetition and If people don't agree with some of this, we all have our own opinions and that's totally chill. But I think it's cool to be able to voice things that I felt were missing from the original game and could make it even better. Anyways sorry for the long post, I'm a rambler, thanks if you got to the end, peace
Static HP Non-rolled HP. D&D 5e style "take average hp". This would avoid people cheesing levelup and avoid the unpleasantness of "I've rolled a 1 for the past 3 levels." So like, Wizard would be straight up 4+(3/(lv-1))+(lv*con). Barbarian would be 12+(7*(lv-1))+(lv*con) It was a common houserule in tabletop even back in my 3.0 days, it's particularly appropriate in a videogame or where you're playing with strangers, and it's been the norm for both 4e and 5e.
Weapon Properties Move weapon base type properties out and into weapon properties & allow all creatures to use any type of weapon. Then I could make halfling-sized greatswords like in 3.5 or Pathfinder, limit them to small creatures, and give them rescaled weapon damage. Additionally, if I want to make a new type of weapon, I could choose the weapon model and make it finesse, assign damage, etc, on a per-weapon basis rather than having to go in and make changes to the base weapon types. If I want to make elven thinblades from 3.5 (basically exotic elven-martial 1d8 rapiers) then I can without any fuss.
Classes Ability to make custom base classes and caster classes, people have mentioned. But I'd like to add in - psionics frameworks, for when you want to make a points-based class. This would be great for all the 3.5 and pathfinder psionics, for MP-Based mage classes, and for monk types with ki point abilities.
Feats & Spells If hardcoded feat & spell scripts could be exposed for editing that would be very helpful for creating new content.
Combat If the combat scripts could be exposed and no longer hardcoded, that would be fantastic for all kinds of modding.
- Unarmed Focus & Epic Weapon Focus: Unarmed to work with creature weapons. Currently they show up on sheet, but do not factor in, when running dm_enablecombatdebugging. - Spell slots on gear factored before a shapeshift to prevent loss of spells. (Dunno if this one has been said yet.) - Opened damage types. So that current ones can have names/colors modified, but also more added. I.E., making cold and water a separate type depending on what the builder wanted.
@GearsOfMadness For the record, Weapon Focus and Epic Weapon Focus already exists for creature weapons, as well as for Improved Critical, Overwhelming Critical, Devastating Critical, and Weapon Specialization. The Unarmed Strike variants of those feats aren't supposed to work with Creature Weapons.
They exist, yeah. Though they aren't active by default to players. Improved critical for unarmed works with creature weapons. Which is why I suggested that change. That or make creature weapon focus and the like available by default, to non-hak servers, so it can be picked in the leveling process.
I have one thing I'd like to bring to light. I don't actually want to edit the ruleset and game mechanics to deviate from the original, but I do think there is one thing that always kept bothering me.
That is, attack of opportunity. When you are casting in NWN1, your char is not in "combat stance" and thus, even after casting spell, you don't threaten the space next to you - you count as flat-footed, dodge doesn't apply afaik, and you don't get to do AoOs. Can someone confirm that? Might be that my memory is wrong, but I could swear that was a tissue for me... Goes directly against D&D rules.
I have one thing I'd like to bring to light. I don't actually want to edit the ruleset and game mechanics to deviate from the original, but I do think there is one thing that always kept bothering me.
That is, attack of opportunity. When you are casting in NWN1, your char is not in "combat stance" and thus, even after casting spell, you don't threaten the space next to you - you count as flat-footed, dodge doesn't apply afaik, and you don't get to do AoOs. Can someone confirm that? Might be that my memory is wrong, but I could swear that was a tissue for me... Goes directly against D&D rules.
this is incorrect
When casting in nwn, character is unflankable (immunity to sneak attack and +2ab to attackers) and does not count as flat-footed. And on the contrary casting character can get AoO which is annoying and can be easily abused (PvP servers seen a builds of no AC DD/PM without tumble who were provoking AoOs from casterrs forcing them to fail the cast and also take damage from spellshields).
The only mechanics that the casting character is susceptible is the unseen attacker. So if the attacker is unseen he can sneak attack, negate dexterity part of AC etc.
Imo, AoOs should be disabled when the character is performing certain actions: all rogue actions, taunt, spellcasting and possibly also when mage staff is equipped.
Oh, so I remember wrong? Very well! I haven't played NWN in ages, and I just had a distant memory of that scratching at the back of my mind, sorry. But! "Furthermore, an empty action queue can cause a character to become flat-footed as soon as they finish moving or casting a spell" http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Flat-foot
I'm sure this is probably very bad etiquette but I posted a suggestion in the builders forum that, on hindsight, should probably have been posted here. It's got basically no views (because it seems hardly anyone goes into the scripting forum) and would actually appreciate some feedback on it from people who aren't massively into scripting. The usage examples are what I'd be most interested in getting comments on.
The gist of it is I'd like the ability to progress class features like Sneak Attack and Caster Level via feats, classes, items, etc. in such a way that things don't constantly step on each other. I've opened the discussion with a suggestion on how to do this entirely using scripts that I believe is pretty beginner friendly; I aimed for it to be very copy+paste+modify/cheatsheet friendly.
TLDR for the approach; register an event handler when the game calculates certain core variables for effects (like how many d6s a sneak attack should use or what caster level should be fed into spell scripts), before/after dice are rolled and when a target is effected. When these events happen, every event handler is called in sequence, each modifying the variable in question, and the end result gets passed into the appropriate scripts/spells.
As written it's only a suggestion for an approach on how NWN could provide this functionality - there's all kinds of things not accounted for in how it's currently proposed; e.g: is this an Enhancement or Inherent bonus?.
Comments
My hope is that Beamdog does actually make some of these changes. My problem with them ATM is that they're really focused on not breaking backward compatibility. That's actually the thing keeping me from buying EE at the moment. Without breaking at least some of the features (because they were done so horribly before), I can't invest in a pretty clone of the same old thing. The way GUI and scripts behave, IMO, must be destroyed and redone, or the benefit of the new version isn't worth it to me. Until then, I can make 1001 suggestions they're just going to put on ice.
Which part of the 4e experience are you most interested in implementing yourself? I would show some clipped specifics in those areas. I would be willing to do tiny proofs to show how certain aspects could be changed and what their effects end up being, but not the whole thing at once.
In case others ask why I don't just use a script to apply a natural armor bonus, I normally do through a modified player tool, and it unfortunately doesn't stack with an Amulet of Natural Armor (not that monster races particularly need it when 99% of the monstrous races in PnP have +5 natural armor). Besides, it shows up in the corner as a buff, which is less than desirable unless you can hide it.
Use a line like this to return an encounter power, or modify the timing to suit your needs.
DelayCommand(RoundsToSeconds(10), IncrementRemainingFeatUses(oCaster, nFeat));
I called this at the very end of the spell script after the spell was launched. What I actually did was have an include library with a function called PowerRechargeEncounter and PowerRechargeAtWill. I ran both functions at the end of the spell, because I was never sure which use was casting the spell. That function is what grabbed the associated feat and recharged it.
To be more specific, I let players build classes by mixing and matching 4e-like powers. So instead of having these defined classes, they had a pool of powers to pick from that defined the custom class. This allowed players to attempt a reconstruction of 3e kits under a more 4e feel. By modifying all the class level up 2das and specifically changing the optional feats by level and requirement, you can construct a very intersting, yet not overpowered class. Certain feats are used to construct higher level versions of powers, just as with upgrading tree skills in 3e. If your character has certain feats in addition to the ones that give you the feat-power, then the spell script called by the feat use takes that into account and greatly modifies the effect of the spell.
All together, this allows any class you modify this way to have sorcerer-like powers that they can use at will or per encounter. You can make them for specific classes, or do like I did and make them all open so there is really only one class with unlimited modifications. Give your players level-wiping opportunities so they can correct something they don't like within one level of upgrade.
Use slot-based spells for non-combat type stuff. If you want to modify your mage class to be something else, you can use scrolls to learn 4e style non-combat spells. If you like, make it so there is ever only one level of wizard class, then make all the spells 1st level only. Give them all the basic non-combat spells as 0-level. Give them all the slots you think they'll need.
Another option is to tree multiple spells into a single slot. If you want to limit the number of non-combat spells they can use per day from a certain group, put those spells into a group in the 2da and make it so when that spell is cast they are picked from a submenu.
As an added bonus, you can give items bonus feats. This means that spell powers can specifically come from a book or wand or staff or orb, and instead of giving them charges as you would a normal item, you can recharge the feat that is flagged on the character holding the feat-giving item.
This should answer both of your questions, because the answer is the same for both encounter and recharge spells in my mod.
Example: say you have a character with 5 Wizard levels and 10 Pale Master levels. If they were to cast Magic Missile they would cast it at level 5 and get 3 missiles from the wizard levels. I want them to be able to cast it at level 10 and get 5 missiles from the Pale Master levels. I am not sure what people would think about the balance aspects of this change, but to me a Pale Master seemed like a relatively underpowered class who's main thing is summoning stuff. Mind you, I have only ever played with pure classes (meaning I go for 30 levels in a prestige class if I chose one) and in single player.
Edit: on second thought, maybe the dying fireball is already unable to harm the caster... I don't recall... Just check it and make sure.
Or you can do something fancier; we've got a system where characters with certain deities and/or elemental domains have increased odds of summoning their aligned elemental type, for example.
-Dave
Monks have a wisdom AC bonus, archers have Zen Archery and the shifters have very meh original forms and a decent epic forms with a terribad AB. The class itself is very fun, but right now it doesn't hold its own against anyone and needs some kind of a boost. I believe, that's the most balanced way to improve shifter without tweaking a lot of numbers.
my new suggestion
Add 5 foot step tactical move on pause to control movement in fight without attack of opportunity and to use terrain in combat.
My suggestion is ... when use tactical pause show arrows for next 5 foot step in selected direction action to add in the action queue (animation could be a must :P) to control fighting movement.
Example in this image ...
Thanks in advance
You'll notice it's pretty spellcasting focused - spellcasters kind of feel underpowered compared to martial characters at high levels (the exact opposite of PnP) - DCs and spell damage caps out way before HP and saves do. Suggestions that I know already have a Trello ticket aren't included (e.g. custom spellcasting classes). Apologies if some of these have been listed before, but 11 pages in just 1 of 4 threads is pretty daunting to read through.
Spells Known
Spell Slots
Casting Spells
Metamagic-meta
Character Creation/Leveling up
Skills
Domains/Dieties
Class Features
- Ability to modify which stat abilities like Monk AC bonus is based on (Kung fu Genius Feat)
- Ability to add Familiars/Animal Companions to other classes (Hexblade)
- Ability to have more than one Familiars/Animal Companions (Obtain Familiar)
- Ability to acquire a familiar via Feat (Obtain Familiar)
- Ability to add familiar types to the available familiars list (Improved Familiar)
ItemsUI (NWN 2 players may skip this)
Misc
- Ability to pierce immunities - Music of the Gods epic feat (Mind Controlling), Dread Witch class feature (Fear), Frost Witch class feature (Cold)
- Ability to add bonuses to stats that count for feat pre-requisites - in PnP Inate bonuses count IIRC
- Ability to have more than 2 attacks with an offhand weapon (Greater Two Weapon Fighting, Perfect Two Weapon Fighting)
- Ability to alter penalties - you can just add an attack bonus to counteract it but the bonus cap is a thing, even if it's configurable now (Tempest class with Two Weapon Fighting, high level Monk Flurry)
- Remove the party size penalty for summoned creatures/familiars/animal companions/etc. - these are class features, not party members
- Ability to alter the party size penalty (Leadership - you've paid for it via Feat)
P.S: I know a some of these (like DC and CL increases) *can* be done already, but they currently require you to basically eviscerate every spell script, every .inc file and write your own with no portability at all. Anyone who wants to add to your stuff has to go in, hack your spellcasting include functions and then recompile all your spells. It's not a great way to go about these.It would be much simpler if there was something like a Visitor pattern design for core game concepts like caster level, class features, etc.; people could then inject their own script into it then without having to hack on things.
-More spells and a greater variety. I always play a magic-type (arcane or divine) character, cause they're fricken awesome, and it would be great to have more flexibility in the kind of casters you can play, adapting your play-style and roleplaying accordingly. Also I know that the PRC introduced several new spells but I think it would be more effective and better mechanically and visually if more were implemented in the production of NWN:EE.
-4 classes! (if there's going to be extra content maybe even a higher level cap)
-Following on from this, more magic-themed prestige classes, or even new classes all together! Just off the top of my head things like mystic theurge, improved palemaster (who can summon more than like 1 skeleton or a mummy), something based in planar summoning (both infernal and celestial), lichdom, and there's so many other options too, but I think this post will be too long as it is so I'll move on. (Again I know several things like this were implemented in the PRC pack but again I think it could be effective to include them in the production of NWN:EE
-More and better epic spells
-Magic scaling past level 20 to avoid bias toward fighting classes
-More and greater variety of summoning spells (inc.planar and undead) which vary with alignment, spells which allow you to summon multiple creatures at one time. This would make conjurer or necromancer builds much more viable, especially at higher levels. (I did post more in depth about this on another thread so I won't ramble too much about it here)
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/68888/instead-of-improve-summoning-why-not-d-d-pnp-summoning-or-at-least-iwd-ee-summon
-Improved shifter class, more and better creatures with more powers, more flexibility and open to other magic users who can cast polymorph spells not just druids. Casting still allowed while polymorphed, and also not losing any bonus spells (like from items) after polymorphing
-More races and subraces, and maybe even corresponding feats and traits. This would allow an experience of the game from a totally new perspective
-Able learner feat
-Quick looting like BG:EE
-AOE targeting graphics
-Friendly fire setting separate from difficulty setting
-Quick cast menu or maybe even more quickslots
Basically when I play NWN:EE, I want a new and improved experience of a game that I have played and loved since it was released and these are just my thoughts on how it could be made better. If an NPC can do something I wanna be able to do it too (within reason of course), eg. if they can teleport or summon several undead or demons or whatever else, then I think it's cool if the player has the opportunity to do that too, it's just more immersive that way I think. Anyways, sorry again for any repetition and If people don't agree with some of this, we all have our own opinions and that's totally chill. But I think it's cool to be able to voice things that I felt were missing from the original game and could make it even better. Anyways sorry for the long post, I'm a rambler, thanks if you got to the end, peace
Static HP
Non-rolled HP. D&D 5e style "take average hp". This would avoid people cheesing levelup and avoid the unpleasantness of "I've rolled a 1 for the past 3 levels."
So like, Wizard would be straight up 4+(3/(lv-1))+(lv*con). Barbarian would be 12+(7*(lv-1))+(lv*con)
It was a common houserule in tabletop even back in my 3.0 days, it's particularly appropriate in a videogame or where you're playing with strangers, and it's been the norm for both 4e and 5e.
Weapon Properties
Move weapon base type properties out and into weapon properties & allow all creatures to use any type of weapon. Then I could make halfling-sized greatswords like in 3.5 or Pathfinder, limit them to small creatures, and give them rescaled weapon damage. Additionally, if I want to make a new type of weapon, I could choose the weapon model and make it finesse, assign damage, etc, on a per-weapon basis rather than having to go in and make changes to the base weapon types. If I want to make elven thinblades from 3.5 (basically exotic elven-martial 1d8 rapiers) then I can without any fuss.
Classes
Ability to make custom base classes and caster classes, people have mentioned.
But I'd like to add in - psionics frameworks, for when you want to make a points-based class. This would be great for all the 3.5 and pathfinder psionics, for MP-Based mage classes, and for monk types with ki point abilities.
Feats & Spells
If hardcoded feat & spell scripts could be exposed for editing that would be very helpful for creating new content.
Combat
If the combat scripts could be exposed and no longer hardcoded, that would be fantastic for all kinds of modding.
Caster level bonus (ALL)
Caster level bonus (spell school)
DC bonus (ALL)
DC bonus (spell school)
So it's possible to make Wizardly implements that give a general buff to spellcasting power, or boost spell power of individual schools.
E.g.
Orb of the Unreal (+2 caster level and +2 DC for Illusion spells)
Staff of Magus (+1 caster level, +1 DC of all spells)
- Spell slots on gear factored before a shapeshift to prevent loss of spells. (Dunno if this one has been said yet.)
- Opened damage types. So that current ones can have names/colors modified, but also more added. I.E., making cold and water a separate type depending on what the builder wanted.
That is, attack of opportunity.
When you are casting in NWN1, your char is not in "combat stance" and thus, even after casting spell, you don't threaten the space next to you - you count as flat-footed, dodge doesn't apply afaik, and you don't get to do AoOs. Can someone confirm that?
Might be that my memory is wrong, but I could swear that was a tissue for me... Goes directly against D&D rules.
When casting in nwn, character is unflankable (immunity to sneak attack and +2ab to attackers) and does not count as flat-footed. And on the contrary casting character can get AoO which is annoying and can be easily abused (PvP servers seen a builds of no AC DD/PM without tumble who were provoking AoOs from casterrs forcing them to fail the cast and also take damage from spellshields).
The only mechanics that the casting character is susceptible is the unseen attacker. So if the attacker is unseen he can sneak attack, negate dexterity part of AC etc.
Imo, AoOs should be disabled when the character is performing certain actions: all rogue actions, taunt, spellcasting and possibly also when mage staff is equipped.
Very well! I haven't played NWN in ages, and I just had a distant memory of that scratching at the back of my mind, sorry.
But!
"Furthermore, an empty action queue can cause a character to become flat-footed as soon as they finish moving or casting a spell"
http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Flat-foot
Topic is: More composable scripting
The gist of it is I'd like the ability to progress class features like Sneak Attack and Caster Level via feats, classes, items, etc. in such a way that things don't constantly step on each other. I've opened the discussion with a suggestion on how to do this entirely using scripts that I believe is pretty beginner friendly; I aimed for it to be very copy+paste+modify/cheatsheet friendly.
TLDR for the approach; register an event handler when the game calculates certain core variables for effects (like how many d6s a sneak attack should use or what caster level should be fed into spell scripts), before/after dice are rolled and when a target is effected. When these events happen, every event handler is called in sequence, each modifying the variable in question, and the end result gets passed into the appropriate scripts/spells.
As written it's only a suggestion for an approach on how NWN could provide this functionality - there's all kinds of things not accounted for in how it's currently proposed; e.g: is this an Enhancement or Inherent bonus?.