That is quite possibly the most backwards approach I have ever seen suggested.
I either get in line with all the other fanboys and pre-order another unfinished product, or silence my voice and go away so all you fanboys can praise and worship in peace?
Should not the would-be customers voice their concern and inform the makers what it would take to get them onboard..?
It's not our job to sell the game to you. By all means continue to post in hopes the devs see your feedback, but it's clear to me that you don't really "get it," as far as NWN and specifically the EE goes, which is fine. Maybe you're a well traveled gamer with a certain set of standards, and as someone who has been in that frustrated position in discussions where I'd like a certain game to go "my way," I can empathize, but there comes a point where you're essentially demanding hamburgers at a pizza joint, metaphorically speaking.
I don't think those that only request things like improved models and OC enhancements will be pleased even if they get what they want before the engine has updated much. If you update today it's still going to be dated. I also don't think adding a few side quests to the OC will change it from being treated as a tutorial mod.
It just seems like a waste of time that could be better spent on updating the graphics engine and creating brand new content with modern technology. It's not my decision however and ppl are free to vote for what they want, it just means it will probably take a bit longer to get some real enhancements to the game.
Many say how horrible NWN looked, even at launch. Not to me. I liked the graphics back then. I want better ones now, and I see the path to that being laid by BD with this initiative: make it so the game CAN look better, then release stuff so the game WILL look better.
Many say how horrible NWN looked, even at launch. Not to me. I liked the graphics back then. I want better ones now, and I see the path to that being laid by BD with this initiative: make it so the game CAN look better, then release stuff so the game WILL look better.
-JFK
Fully agree, among all the Ui and the graphic update are the things that I personally have also pushed me to buy the game.
let's say that a title like BG1-2 or IWD or PST have a graphic that in itself is pleasing from the artistic point of view still in 2018 at the end infinity titles use a kind of d2 very detailed as regards the environments, and on that we all agree.
But if we look at a game like NWN ... I'm sorry @voidofopinion and @FreshLemonBun but the graphics can not say anything, say that even then at the launch of the 2002 it sucks the graphics and obviously even that at the time there were no technologies that you have now the 3d engine was new to many developers then it makes me believe that on that Bioware had not pushed much forward.
But now we are in 2018 the graphics and video technology and grown over the years, if they want to attract new players must also focus on the graphics and not only on PW the multy and old players, if not as many rightly say NWN: EE will attract only one user niche and this from the economic point of view is not good according to me because less people who buy less revenue come to BG.
say so much that the graphics are fine as well but for many it is not fine, and trust that if they improve the graphics people will begin to buy the preorder only for that I'm sure
... even if perhaps already with the patch 8156. ..would already start coming new players on NWN: EE (but I will not say anything else)
Many say how horrible NWN looked, even at launch. Not to me. I liked the graphics back then. I want better ones now, and I see the path to that being laid by BD with this initiative: make it so the game CAN look better, then release stuff so the game WILL look better.
-JFK
Isnt that what the community has been doing for 15 years?
We already have new models for players and creatures. New tilesets and overhauls for the old tilesets. Placeable overhauls. Skybox overhauls.
They all work with NWN:EE.
Wouldnt it be better if Beamdog worked on something that requires access to the source code that we would never be able to address rather than something we fixed as a collective 15 years ago?
I'm sorry @voidofopinion and @FreshLemonBun but the graphics can not say anything, say that even then at the launch of the 2002 it sucks the graphics and obviously even that at the time there were no technologies that you have now the 3d engine was new to many developers then it makes me believe that on that Bioware had not pushed much forward.
But now we are in 2018 the graphics and video technology and grown over the years, if they want to attract new players must also focus on the graphics and not only on PW the multy and old players, if not as many rightly say NWN: EE will attract only one user niche and this from the economic point of view is not good according to me because less people who buy less revenue come to BG.
When Bioware made the move from 2D sprites to 3D there was a ton of hate from the community. A loooooooooot of hate. NWN looking bad is not new.
In same year NWN released we had Morrowind, Metroid Prime, Kingdom Hearts and Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker. NWN's looked like ugly Lego by comparison. Yet that didn't stop it selling like wild fire. That didn't stop it from being an amazing RPG that received two expansions and that didn't stop each of us forging some of our fondest memories around NWN.
Being ugly has never stopped NWN from being successful or fun.
I'm not convinced there is this massive untapped customer base of people who play 15 year old RPG's for their graphics.
And, if we are doing our own market analyses of the economics involved in developing a video game then I would like to submit the following highly researched data for your approval.
Hmm... I believe my point has been misinterpreted. The latin quote is "there's no accounting for taste". All I meant to say is that while others state how 'ugly' NWN graphics were and are, I never saw them as ugly. I liked them. I enjoyed them.
With respect, voidofopinion, no. That is not what the community has been doing these 15 years. I wrote that Beamdog is going to make it POSSIBLE for the visuals to look better (with the work they are doing on the engine, opening up hardcoded things, etc.). Those are things we couldn't do these 15 years. Then, I wrote, Beamdog will release new stuff that WILL make the visuals look better.
I think my point was interpreted to a 180 degree position from my intention.
With respect, voidofopinion, no. That is not what the community has been doing these 15 years. I wrote that Beamdog is going to make it POSSIBLE for the visuals to look better (with the work they are doing on the engine, opening up hardcoded things, etc.). Those are things we couldn't do these 15 years. Then, I wrote, Beamdog will release new stuff that WILL make the visuals look better.
My apologies,
I took your response to be another voice in the unrealistic choir who want NWN to look like it was made last year with all new models, textures and animations for everything. I really shouldn't read the Steam forum before posting here.
I very much misunderstood your response.
Features like shader support and the texture memory increase etc are absolutely wonderful and I am 100% behind opening things up and making it easier for the community to make future advances.
Am I the only one who imagined "better models" to mean just add a few more polygons to the base character models' parts including heads/faces (you know like 8 instead of 4), and better looking hands? Maybe some slightly better default skin textures? Is "tearing apart the rigging", adding new bones, new nodes, etc. all necessary? Characters would look a little better and wouldn't clash too much with all the other models that they wouldn't even need to touch.
I see the path to that [better graphics] being laid by BD with this initiative: make it so the game CAN look better, then release stuff so the game WILL look better.
Isnt that what the community has been doing for 15 years? We already have new models for players and creatures. New tilesets and overhauls for the old tilesets. Placeable overhauls. Skybox overhauls. They all work with NWN:EE.
Wouldnt it be better if Beamdog worked on something that requires access to the source code that we would never be able to address rather than something we fixed as a collective 15 years ago?
Am I the only one who imagined "better models" to mean just add a few more polygons to the base character models' parts including heads/faces (you know like 8 instead of 4), and better looking hands? Maybe some slightly better default skin textures? Is "tearing apart the rigging", adding new bones, new nodes, etc. all necessary? Characters would look a little better and wouldn't clash too much with all the other models that they wouldn't even need to touch.
That's what I thought the Trello card to be as well. Make the models a little nicer, flesh out the meshes and create higher res textures. But you know what they say about assumptions...
Quote: Being ugly has never stopped NWN from being successful or fun
In the land of the blind, the one eyed game is king.
Love is blind, it’s about more then just looks.
As harsh as I have been I genuinely love the look of NWN. You can identify a screenshot of NWN immediately because nothing else in gaming has ever looked quite like it.
Let's look at it this way. You have a car that you want to race in the new NASCAR Raceway. You have your car that looks kind of plain. You want to stand out so you know you are going to get a new paint job. But are you going to try and paint your car before you even know if the engine is up to par?
Some of the things are hard coded, even the graphics. For instances they just added the functionality of Shaders and opened a higher memory limit are steps to make sure the engine can support a new paint job. If you look at the Trello Board there are may aspects to the graphics they are trying or are considering adapting.
This isn't going to happen overnight and maybe not before it is released. Beam Dog has a long term goal for this game that has many moving parts, not just graphics. Multiplayer, Multiplayer server, Single Player, Co-op, UI, Opening up hard coded stuff for the community (which most likely includes some of the limiting factors of the graphics engine to support better graphics).
So first lets make sure the engine is running before we give the car a new paint job with racing strips.
@HunterRayder93 Smoother edges on models and slightly tweaked textures wont make the game look much different. To get 2018 graphics you have to update the graphics engine instead of just adding smoother edges to models for a 2002 graphics engine.
@HunterRayder93 Smoother edges on models and slightly tweaked textures wont make the game look much different. To get 2018 graphics you have to update the graphics engine instead of just adding smoother edges to models for a 2002 graphics engine.
While I agree that it wont make NWN look like an entirely different game there is quite a bit of difference going from 720p to 4k. Again, NWN doesnt look like a brand new game or anything but it looks sharper and cleaner which in turn makes the models and lighting look a little nicer.
It's not much of an improvement but it is certainly there.
Clean up some of the models and textures a little to go with it and while NWN certainly wouldnt look new... it would be "Enhanced."
I'm not sure it would be worth the effort but I wouldn't complain if they put a little polish on it.
I don't want to see a new body. I'm not even sure I want to see a new paint job. But taking it to the car wash and running it down with a fine chamois wouldn't go amiss.
Why cannot we just receive the improved community models through an optional ingame download button? Of course, the modders need to be mentioned and honored.
Why cannot we just receive the improved community models through an optional ingame download button? Of course, the modders need to be mentioned and honored.
sounds like a perfect solution to me. Have an optional complete 'officially approved' asset enhancement pack produced by the community that allows both server builders and players easy access to better assets with very little input required from the developer.
Ok I'm not going to say that I read through all 7 pages because I didn't, I did read and look over some of the posts.
That said I just don't think some people understand that Beamdog is made up of coders/scripters and not model creators. If you look at who they always seam to be looking at hiring are more scripters. This is who Beamdog is.
However unlike some other games we (the NWN community) are lucky to have a community that has done and are still doing the model work. Now there isn't as many now as there once was but EE could change all that.
Take my self for example I didn't know how to create any custom content what so ever less then 2 years ago and now I have my own project I'm currently working on.
Standard Castle Interior Tileset Revamped (currently in the works)
Standard Rural Tileset Revamped (in the works)
I even have a Desert Tileset I have started work on for a friends project.
The main two point I'm getting at first is that we have a community they can and will create very nice looking content. Second is you and anyone in this community can learn how to create content like this.
If anyone would like to help me with updating the standard tileset Please contact me.
I'm spend so much of my free time working on my project that I haven't been looking into what is all going on. There for, I don't know anything about the steam workshop.
So I will have to look into it. But they will be on the Vault for anyone who wants to download and use them.
Just purchased the Collectors Editions of both the Planescape/Icewind Dale and Baldur's Gate collections because I want nothing to do with the NWN "Enhanced" Edition.
The other games are all wonderful (now), but that dog's breakfast still looks and plays like a fossil. Mind you I only really enjoyed the DLC's so I am happy to skip NWN.
Comments
It just seems like a waste of time that could be better spent on updating the graphics engine and creating brand new content with modern technology. It's not my decision however and ppl are free to vote for what they want, it just means it will probably take a bit longer to get some real enhancements to the game.
However, I happen to think the game has an aesthetic that has lasted the test of time.
NWN looked like crap in 2002.
NWN looks like crap in 2018.
Never stopped it from being one of the most enjoyable and dynamic RPG's ever created.
Many say how horrible NWN looked, even at launch. Not to me. I liked the graphics back then. I want better ones now, and I see the path to that being laid by BD with this initiative: make it so the game CAN look better, then release stuff so the game WILL look better.
-JFK
let's say that a title like BG1-2 or IWD or PST have a graphic that in itself is pleasing from the artistic point of view still in 2018 at the end infinity titles use a kind of d2 very detailed as regards the environments, and on that we all agree.
But if we look at a game like NWN ... I'm sorry @voidofopinion and @FreshLemonBun but the graphics can not say anything, say that even then at the launch of the 2002 it sucks the graphics and obviously even that at the time there were no technologies that you have now the 3d engine was new to many developers then it makes me believe that on that Bioware had not pushed much forward.
But now we are in 2018 the graphics and video technology and grown over the years, if they want to attract new players must also focus on the graphics and not only on PW the multy and old players, if not as many rightly say NWN: EE will attract only one user niche and this from the economic point of view is not good according to me because less people who buy less revenue come to BG.
say so much that the graphics are fine as well but for many it is not fine, and trust that if they improve the graphics people will begin to buy the preorder only for that I'm sure
... even if perhaps already with the patch 8156. ..would already start coming new players on NWN: EE (but I will not say anything else)
We already have new models for players and creatures. New tilesets and overhauls for the old tilesets. Placeable overhauls. Skybox overhauls.
They all work with NWN:EE.
Wouldnt it be better if Beamdog worked on something that requires access to the source code that we would never be able to address rather than something we fixed as a collective 15 years ago? When Bioware made the move from 2D sprites to 3D there was a ton of hate from the community. A loooooooooot of hate. NWN looking bad is not new.
In same year NWN released we had Morrowind, Metroid Prime, Kingdom Hearts and Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker. NWN's looked like ugly Lego by comparison. Yet that didn't stop it selling like wild fire. That didn't stop it from being an amazing RPG that received two expansions and that didn't stop each of us forging some of our fondest memories around NWN.
Being ugly has never stopped NWN from being successful or fun.
I'm not convinced there is this massive untapped customer base of people who play 15 year old RPG's for their graphics.
And, if we are doing our own market analyses of the economics involved in developing a video game then I would like to submit the following highly researched data for your approval.
With respect, voidofopinion, no. That is not what the community has been doing these 15 years. I wrote that Beamdog is going to make it POSSIBLE for the visuals to look better (with the work they are doing on the engine, opening up hardcoded things, etc.). Those are things we couldn't do these 15 years. Then, I wrote, Beamdog will release new stuff that WILL make the visuals look better.
I think my point was interpreted to a 180 degree position from my intention.
Regards,
JFK
I took your response to be another voice in the unrealistic choir who want NWN to look like it was made last year with all new models, textures and animations for everything. I really shouldn't read the Steam forum before posting here.
I very much misunderstood your response.
Features like shader support and the texture memory increase etc are absolutely wonderful and I am 100% behind opening things up and making it easier for the community to make future advances.
- Jamie
Being ugly has never stopped NWN from being successful or fun
In the land of the blind, the one eyed game is king.
Love is blind, it’s about more then just looks.
Some of the things are hard coded, even the graphics. For instances they just added the functionality of Shaders and opened a higher memory limit are steps to make sure the engine can support a new paint job. If you look at the Trello Board there are may aspects to the graphics they are trying or are considering adapting.
This isn't going to happen overnight and maybe not before it is released. Beam Dog has a long term goal for this game that has many moving parts, not just graphics. Multiplayer, Multiplayer server, Single Player, Co-op, UI, Opening up hard coded stuff for the community (which most likely includes some of the limiting factors of the graphics engine to support better graphics).
So first lets make sure the engine is running before we give the car a new paint job with racing strips.
It's not much of an improvement but it is certainly there.
Clean up some of the models and textures a little to go with it and while NWN certainly wouldnt look new... it would be "Enhanced."
I'm not sure it would be worth the effort but I wouldn't complain if they put a little polish on it.
To keep with the analogy @raz651 made.
I don't want to see a new body. I'm not even sure I want to see a new paint job. But taking it to the car wash and running it down with a fine chamois wouldn't go amiss.
That said I just don't think some people understand that Beamdog is made up of coders/scripters and not model creators. If you look at who they always seam to be looking at hiring are more scripters. This is who Beamdog is.
However unlike some other games we (the NWN community) are lucky to have a community that has done and are still doing the model work. Now there isn't as many now as there once was but EE could change all that.
Take my self for example I didn't know how to create any custom content what so ever less then 2 years ago and now I have my own project I'm currently working on.
Neverwinter Nights Revamped
Main Website
Vault forums
Project Page (download my work)
Some screenshots of what I'm working on:
Standard City Tileset Revamped
Standard Castle Interior Tileset Revamped (currently in the works)
Standard Rural Tileset Revamped (in the works)
I even have a Desert Tileset I have started work on for a friends project.
The main two point I'm getting at first is that we have a community they can and will create very nice looking content. Second is you and anyone in this community can learn how to create content like this.
If anyone would like to help me with updating the standard tileset Please contact me.
So I will have to look into it. But they will be on the Vault for anyone who wants to download and use them.
The other games are all wonderful (now), but that dog's breakfast still looks and plays like a fossil. Mind you I only really enjoyed the DLC's so I am happy to skip NWN.