I think it's pretty clear now that any upgraded graphical assets will come through the community or an official expansion. And probably the fate of any future expansion will be decided by the initial success of the EE. I would love to get a sneak peek at Beamdog's roadmap.
That's why I'm fully supporting this EE even though I can't look past the monotonous visuals. I can only hope the game will live on and improve in time.
I was hoping for a NWN 3 with 5e rules, but I doubt this EE would have seen the light of day if something like that was in the works.
I mean, shaders and stuff are probably the few things we might be able to see added into NWN, as they mostly require a bit of coding and applies universally across the light-mapping.
It's redoing textures, enhancing polygons that might be a bit of a tough sell, as it quickly stacks up on cost.
There's a lot of arguments yelling "Don't do it, as it's going to break mod compatibility!" Honestly, I think those people are misinformed. If it's really so that any updates to textures and what not would break the compatibility, then the engine wouldn't be very moddable at all, and the contrary seems true. It should be possible to upgrade individual graphics without breaking mod compatibility.
First, no one is yelling. Second, people aren't advancing arguments that it's going to break mod compatibility. That information comes from Trent Oster, who was design lead on Neverwinter Nights and is now CEO of Beamdog Entertainment. I think he knows whereof he speaks. People are simply quoting what he already stated in the first stream.
Obviously, the engine as a whole cannot be tempered with, but that's not the same as individual items. Like, they can't switch to, say, an Unreal engine and use associated assets, as it would not only break old mods, but require those to be redesigned from scratch to work with a new engine.
Individual creatures and objects, however, should be easily improved in fidelity without breaking custom content. Of course, due to the sheer size of the amount of creatures and objects, that would become a costly project.
People complained about the graphics way back in 2002 when this was a brand new game. To me, the visuals are made up for by the gameplay, variety of character builds, and the world building tools. It doesn't even look that bad to me... it's classic. My hope is that this takes off and leads to the reincarnation of the premium mod program, which was terminated prematurely by Atari years ago, then we might see some better looking models.
People complained about the graphics way back in 2002 when this was a brand new game. To me, the visuals are made up for by the gameplay, variety of character builds, and the world building tools. It doesn't even look that bad to me... it's classic. My hope is that this takes off and leads to the reincarnation of the premium mod program, which was terminated prematurely by Atari years ago, then we might see some better looking models.
A project interrupted by Atari? did not I know anything about it.
Just showed 2 GIFs with what CAN BE DONE with almost no work at all and without any incompatibility. And main counter argument is still "it's too costly, it's compatibility breaking".
So then why aren't you offering to do it on behalf of Beamdog? You've already demonstrated that you can.
Just showed 2 GIFs with what CAN BE DONE with almost no work at all and without any incompatibility. And main counter argument is still "it's too costly, it's compatibility breaking".
So then why aren't you offering to do it on behalf of Beamdog? You've already demonstrated that you can.
Because he has a "pay me" attitude.
Besides, there is very little difference in the Gifs besides the character's head. The barrels aren't the only thing with gaps. In the first one, the pillar wall in the background also creates a gap.
With time, and continued support (which Beamdog is offering) someone will do it better.
I am totally stunned how WRONG I was before. I have seen NWN:EE now with my own eyes. I was there, in the game and the graphics. WOW!
They are so nostalgic, so classic. It brings back so many memories of the good old days. How could I ever ask for other graphics? These graphics are an integral part of Neverwinter Nights. Change them, and you have a complete different game that is not worth playing anymore.
Look at it! Watch it! I have made a screenshot, I could provide more on request:
Of course they don't match the graphics of a modern triple A video game. But no modern triple A video game is able to create THAT nostalgic atmosphere as the graphics of NWN:EE do!
That reminds me of another game of that time with classic 3D graphics, King's Quest 8 anyone?
Aww, those times. And Beamdog brings them back to us! I have decided to buy an additional copy of the game just to show my support and express my gratitude to Beamdog. Beamdog, thank you very much!
I think that was the most powerful motivator for me with the purchase. Like, I was happy that they added shaders and was more concerned about the fixes- but when I got into the game and loaded up my old server? The memories started flowing back, years of RP and PnP sessions all at once. Tbh, the stream and the screenshots don't do it justice. Playing through something you connect to? It hits ya. Good to hear you like it though!
I am totally stunned how WRONG I was before. I have seen NWN:EE now with my own eyes. I was there, in the game and the graphics. WOW!
They are so nostalgic, so classic. It brings back so many memories of the good old days. How could I ever ask for other graphics? These graphics are an integral part of Neverwinter Nights. Change them, and you have a complete different game that is not worth playing anymore.
Look at it! Watch it! I have made a screenshot, I could provide more on request:
I'll be honest: until @IndyWendieGo replied to this comment, I was all but positive that @Shandaxx was being sarcastic!
So to update on how NWN does not function on my computer, it only sometimes displays everything on 1360x768. Sometimes it goes off-center and sometimes robes disappear and sometimes the UI vanishes.
Yeah, I'm really looking forward to getting the EE.
I'm not really getting whats exciting about the screenshot. It still looks like NWN with half the screen being a black void nothing. And maybe the models appear a bit brighter or more colorful than before?
i'm getting less ' it work's fine for me so this does not need to exist." and more. " this has been on gog for years and i feel entitled so beamdog has no right to makes this game."
Just showed 2 GIFs with what CAN BE DONE with almost no work at all and without any incompatibility. And main counter argument is still "it's too costly, it's compatibility breaking".
So then why aren't you offering to do it on behalf of Beamdog? You've already demonstrated that you can.
Would be nice if you got facts right. I didn't demonstrate ANYTHING I made possible. Tessellation is already possible. Has been since original game release. If you at least understood that you wouldn't spout such nonsense (and other ppl repeating it after you).
I'm not really getting whats exciting about the screenshot. It still looks like NWN with half the screen being a black void nothing. And maybe the models appear a bit brighter or more colorful than before?
There is more to games than just the graphics. Maybe you take a look at Dwarf Fortress sometime.
I'm not really getting whats exciting about the screenshot. It still looks like NWN with half the screen being a black void nothing. And maybe the models appear a bit brighter or more colorful than before?
There is more to games than just the graphics. Maybe you take a look at Dwarf Fortress sometime.
I play terraria and the graphics are not great. Instead of leaving the background a black empty nothing like in NWN they have background image.
So to update on how NWN does not function on my computer, it only sometimes displays everything on 1360x768. Sometimes it goes off-center and sometimes robes disappear and sometimes the UI vanishes.
Yeah, I'm really looking forward to getting the EE.
I'm very certain you won't be disappointed. And yeah, I had similar issues as well. It's certainly odd, but at least the game's finally getting support again.
I think it's pretty clear now that any upgraded graphical assets will come through the community or an official expansion. And probably the fate of any future expansion will be decided by the initial success of the EE. I would love to get a sneak peek at Beamdog's roadmap.
That's why I'm fully supporting this EE even though I can't look past the monotonous visuals. I can only hope the game will live on and improve in time.
I was hoping for a NWN 3 with 5e rules, but I doubt this EE would have seen the light of day if something like that was in the works.
spot on to what I am thinking. But I have to admit I have been playing the head start and I have already gotten over the old visuals and I am enjoying the game alot. The nostalgia is nice actually.
5e rules on perhaps and expansion would be so great though. I am remembering how hilariously broken the 3E rules can be.
edit: actually why not kickstart additional expansions? features dependant on stretch goals. I'd pledge in a heartbeat.
Just showed 2 GIFs with what CAN BE DONE with almost no work at all and without any incompatibility. And main counter argument is still "it's too costly, it's compatibility breaking".
So then why aren't you offering to do it on behalf of Beamdog? You've already demonstrated that you can.
Would be nice if you got facts right. I didn't demonstrate ANYTHING I made possible. Tessellation is already possible. Has been since original game release. If you at least understood that you wouldn't spout such nonsense (and other ppl repeating it after you).
Ah, that's what you meant. I apologize for my hostility.
In that case - and I don't direct this to you specifically, but to the nay-sayers in general - why not assume that they're already implementing the virtually-zero-effort stuff?
Lighting hasn't been discussed that much. Improving lighting can also make a massive difference in how the game looks. NWN tends to have pretty flat lighting. Maybe that would be something that could be easily improved? More complex lighting with better dynamics - deeper shadows and more light sources?
Well, I'm still not convinced. I am willing to believe that enhance all models would be too expensive, but why not Improve at least a few key things? Such as textures for grass, stone, and rocks. Something like that would improve the visual side enormously.
Also, there are more "cheap ways" how improve old graphics engine. My favorite is highlight edges with shadows. Practically it is the black edge around each edge on the models.
It can not be THAT expensive and all models would look MUCH better. (In addition, you have already done something similar in Baldurs Gate)
So to update on how NWN does not function on my computer, it only sometimes displays everything on 1360x768. Sometimes it goes off-center and sometimes robes disappear and sometimes the UI vanishes.
Yeah, I'm really looking forward to getting the EE.
I'm very certain you won't be disappointed. And yeah, I had similar issues as well. It's certainly odd, but at least the game's finally getting support again.
I just want to play in 4k with an upscaled UI that never disappears and an always visible character that doesn't vanish off past a corner somewhere as the camera ends up in the wrong place. I totally expect to not be disappointed.
Since Shandaxx's social experiment thread got closed down and this is the topic that was apparently about...
As one of those custom-content creators, I sympathize with both sides (pro-new graphics and anti-new graphics). I started remaking the heads a couple years back because I disliked the originals very much (not that my early efforts were/are any better... ::shudder::), despite being unable to either draw or 3d model at the time. I share the desire for better graphics.
And yet, if Beamdog were to hire professionals to remake them again now, then... yeah, it'd be a little like... I don't know, watching somebody else start your secret dream job and, in doing so, making your hobby work in the field completely unnecessary, since hey, there's professionals at work on it now. I'd be pretty bummed out about that, it's true. :-(
I've got shiny new Blender skills unlocked to the point of being able to make KotOR-style head meshes (and finally avoiding that hideous texture stretching!), though. If they add extra head-aligned nodes for separated hair/open-faced-helmets and head meshes, I'll be redoing the default heads as bald, slightly more high-poly, lore-friendly versions (unless they decide to hire professionals to do it, anyway, in which case I'll just keep making my own heads). So... better models can be a thing regardless of whether or not Beamdog will be hiring anybody to do it. And if we've got any more people here who're into 3d modeling or would like to get into it, I'm always up for handholding newbies. We want better models? Let's make our own. Woo!
(ps: hire me Beamdog I will work for minimum wage and love every second of it) (pps: actually on second thought hire Ancarion and Zwerkules they are tileset gods they would deserve this much more ::sigh:: ::despondent realization of complete waste of one's childhood and adolescence through not acquiring formal education in field of work that truly makes you happy::)
ppps: Have any of you guys who've got beta access tried out loading areas with large amounts of placeables, or high-poly meshes, yet? I'd really like to know whether the general guidelines for the poly count of new meshes are changing with the EE. Actually, what am I saying here. I've just gotta go preorder the dang thing and check for myself already.
Without addressing anyone directly, my only argument about graphics upgrade is basically what Trent said: Too expensive and the potential to break compatibility.
Think of NWN EE as Star wars force awakens as that was just an updated re-release of new hope and return of the Jedi mash up. Which it got criticized for. It pleased a lot of die hard fans of star wars but for some it's was meh. NWN EE falls in that same category some will act like it's the second coming of Christ others couldn't give a toss.
Think of NWN EE as Star wars force awakens as that was just an updated re-release of new hope and return of the Jedi mash up. Which it got criticized for. It pleased a lot of die hard fans of star wars but for some it's was meh. NWN EE falls in that same category some will act like it's the second coming of Christ others couldn't give a toss.
Wouldnt it be more like comparing the orginial Star Wars to the Star Wars '97 re-release.
Most casual viewers wouldnt notice the difference, but hardcore fans do.
Comments
That's why I'm fully supporting this EE even though I can't look past the monotonous visuals. I can only hope the game will live on and improve in time.
I was hoping for a NWN 3 with 5e rules, but I doubt this EE would have seen the light of day if something like that was in the works.
It's redoing textures, enhancing polygons that might be a bit of a tough sell, as it quickly stacks up on cost.
Individual creatures and objects, however, should be easily improved in fidelity without breaking custom content. Of course, due to the sheer size of the amount of creatures and objects, that would become a costly project.
A project interrupted by Atari? did not I know anything about it.
As someone who used to train recruits to put them in shape and ready to fight let me tell you: there's always an excuse.
The big difference is that you can't send Beamdog to the cold water holding their rifles above their heads.
Besides, there is very little difference in the Gifs besides the character's head. The barrels aren't the only thing with gaps. In the first one, the pillar wall in the background also creates a gap.
With time, and continued support (which Beamdog is offering) someone will do it better.
I love how people keep parroting this as if it was true. For me and many many other people, it isn't. Not by a long shot.
Yeah, I'm really looking forward to getting the EE.
5e rules on perhaps and expansion would be so great though. I am remembering how hilariously broken the 3E rules can be.
edit: actually why not kickstart additional expansions? features dependant on stretch goals. I'd pledge in a heartbeat.
In that case - and I don't direct this to you specifically, but to the nay-sayers in general - why not assume that they're already implementing the virtually-zero-effort stuff?
I am willing to believe that enhance all models would be too expensive, but why not Improve at least a few key things? Such as textures for grass, stone, and rocks. Something like that would improve the visual side enormously.
Also, there are more "cheap ways" how improve old graphics engine.
My favorite is highlight edges with shadows. Practically it is the black edge around each edge on the models.
It can not be THAT expensive and all models would look MUCH better.
(In addition, you have already done something similar in Baldurs Gate)
As one of those custom-content creators, I sympathize with both sides (pro-new graphics and anti-new graphics). I started remaking the heads a couple years back because I disliked the originals very much (not that my early efforts were/are any better... ::shudder::), despite being unable to either draw or 3d model at the time. I share the desire for better graphics.
And yet, if Beamdog were to hire professionals to remake them again now, then... yeah, it'd be a little like... I don't know, watching somebody else start your secret dream job and, in doing so, making your hobby work in the field completely unnecessary, since hey, there's professionals at work on it now. I'd be pretty bummed out about that, it's true. :-(
I've got shiny new Blender skills unlocked to the point of being able to make KotOR-style head meshes (and finally avoiding that hideous texture stretching!), though. If they add extra head-aligned nodes for separated hair/open-faced-helmets and head meshes, I'll be redoing the default heads as bald, slightly more high-poly, lore-friendly versions (unless they decide to hire professionals to do it, anyway, in which case I'll just keep making my own heads). So... better models can be a thing regardless of whether or not Beamdog will be hiring anybody to do it. And if we've got any more people here who're into 3d modeling or would like to get into it, I'm always up for handholding newbies. We want better models? Let's make our own. Woo!
(ps: hire me Beamdog I will work for minimum wage and love every second of it)
(pps: actually on second thought hire Ancarion and Zwerkules they are tileset gods they would deserve this much more ::sigh:: ::despondent realization of complete waste of one's childhood and adolescence through not acquiring formal education in field of work that truly makes you happy::)
ppps: Have any of you guys who've got beta access tried out loading areas with large amounts of placeables, or high-poly meshes, yet? I'd really like to know whether the general guidelines for the poly count of new meshes are changing with the EE. Actually, what am I saying here. I've just gotta go preorder the dang thing and check for myself already.
Most casual viewers wouldnt notice the difference, but hardcore fans do.