Lightning Bolt is not a single target spell, so it doesn't make sense to have it follow a specific target. It could also be annoying if the target moved in such a way that it hits friendly targets as well.
Lightning Bolt is not a single target spell, so it doesn't make sense to have it follow a specific target. It could also be annoying if the target moved in such a way that it hits friendly targets as well.
Or if the target moved behind a wall, it would pass through that wall to hit the target, but then bounce off further walls. Not following any target is far more in line with its intention.
The spell does need to hit its intended target when appropriate though, which currently it doesn't. The worst offender occurs when you cast the spell at a target within ~5ft, it almost never hits them. I've found at least one way to fix this with the currently available mechanics, but it results in it always hitting the primary target at least once, even if they have clearly moved out of its path.
It is a single target spell in that it targets a single character—you can't target the ground with a Lightning Bolt. It should work similarly to Agannazar's Scorcher or Hold Person, which are also character-targeted spells that have areas of effect. Both of those spells follow the initial target. Even Hold Person does, which has a slow-moving projectile.
It's also worth noting that Baldur's Gate is a CRPG, not an action-RPG. You can't avoid spells cast at you by moving behind walls, and that's intended.
1) Sometimes the projectile passes through characters without hitting them, especially on the initial path (before hitting any walls). This is not always the case, but it happens often enough where it's greatly affecting the spell's usefulness.
2) The Lightning Bolt projectile now does not follow the person it was aimed at, and instead flies in a straight line towards the target. This makes it possible to dodge the projectile at greater distances if you move perpendicular to its path. This is inconsistent with how other character-targeted spells work in the game, all of which follow the target and are undodgable.
3) If the projectile hits a wall before it gets to the initial target, it will often reflect off or get destroyed, leaving the target unharmed. This, once again, is inconsistent with how other character-targeted spells work in the game, all of which will pass through walls unhindered, and always hit the target.
This is how it's supposed to function, and did before IWDEE was released, where the projectile was externalized but the functionality wasn't, so was given a placeholder projectile in the interim. It's even in the description:
The bolt begins at a range and height decided by the caster and streaks outward in a direct line from the casting wizard. If the Lightning Bolt intersects with a wall, it will bounce until it reaches its full length.
@Thacobell - I corrected myself in a later post, it did follow the initial target, but afterwords continued on in a straight/rebounding manner. But unless you're hasted and actively trying to avoid it, it wasn't really noticable.
In the BGEE v2.5 beta, the spell is still using a broken AoE projectile, it's not perfect, but at least some aspects of its function have been fixed in 2.5: - It now bounces multiple times. - It no longer bounces off creatures.
It still needs to hit targets it should hit (width), and it needs to hit the initial target when very close.
The IWDEE v2.5 release didn't even get some of these fixes, as it's still using a functional AoE projectile.
In the BGEE v2.5 beta, the spell is still using a broken AoE projectile, it's not perfect, but at least some aspects of its function have been fixed in 2.5: - It now bounces multiple times. - It no longer bounces off creatures.
I've done some more testing with the spell in vanilla BG1, and what's interesting is so far it looks like neither of those issues actually appeared there. The spell seems to work pretty much perfectly, as far as I can tell. The usual issues with Lightning Bolt must have started to crop up sometime when the BG2 engine was developed, or possibly afterward.
imho you should be able to target the ground with this spell
But that would also mean that it'd be much more difficult to hit moving targets with it, as the area of effect is quite narrow, and you'd have to predict the location of the target(s) at the end of the casting.
In its previous iterations the spell at least had the guarantee of hitting the initial target. That isn't currently the case.
And while I'm on such a roll complaining about inconsistencies, there's another big one that has persisted for years now, over several large updates, and ultimately seems like it could well be due to an oversight.
I'm talking about the fact that custom soundsets seem to work fine in BG2:EE, but in BG:EE there are several sound cues, like selection sounds, that won't play. Since this is an engine issue and it's fixed in BG2:EE, it seems likely that whenever the fix was implemented, the devs simply forgot to port it back to BG:EE.
Please, someone put this very, very old issue finally out of its misery.
In the BG2:EE beta I have a game where I'm currently in the Asylum, and it looks like the dream sequence that gives the Slayer Change special ability doesn't trigger when it's supposed to (when sleeping after having finished the Bodhi fight in the room with the minotaur statue). No matter how much I sleep the dream doesn't happen.
Oh, wow, kudos to @Hurricane who has investigated the behavior regarding Oil of Speed effect and description in the original BG1 and BG2.
It explains where the bug is coming from (and in the same time addresses a lot of concerns): In BG1, the oil doubled the APR and the description said so as well, while in BG2, the oil gave +1 APR and the description said so as well.
The bug exists because the Enhanced Editions were using the description from BG1, but the behavior from BG2.
The fix is to change the description, which can be based on the original BG2 description:
This oil increases the movement and combat capabilities of the imbiber. The movement rate is doubled and the user gains one extra attack per round. Thus, a movement rate of 9 becomes 18, and a character normally able to attack once in a round attacks twice. This does not reduce spellcasting time, however. The duration of the effect is 1 hour.
STATISTICS:
Special: Doubles movement rate and grants 1 extra attack per round Duration: 1 hour
Right, so rather than fixing the long standing bug, make it a feature. The next time anyone complains about a change because "Core BG1 didn't work that way", I'll know they are full of crap.
This is the Oil of Speed's description in vanilla BG1 + TotSC:
Notice that it does not explicitly state that it doubles APR, in fact it's written in sort of terribly nebulous terms: "increases the combat capabilities of the imbiber by 100%". And then it follows that up with an example of someone with 1 APR, which would increase to 2 APR. That specific example would hold true regardless of whether the potion doubled your APR or gave you +1 APR. So the description is vague and doesn't really land on either side of the argument definitely, although it could sort of imply an APR increase of 100%, if you wanted to read that into it.
But what of the game mechanics? How much APR does the Oil of Speed actually give you when you drink it? The answer is... *drum roll* zero. The Oil of Speed doesn't change your APR stat at all:
It does, however, give you the Haste effect, which, in BG1, was implemented in a way that it doubled your character's animation framerate, and therefore made him move and attack twice as fast. The Haste spell did the same thing, and its description actually stated so:
When BG2 came around, the devs changed quite a bit in the new engine, including the mechanics of a lot of spells. They created a new Haste effect, one that didn't just double your animation framerate, but also provided them with more gradual control over the affected character's movement and attack rates. They changed the 3rd level Haste spell and the Oil of Speed to only give +1 APR, and introduced the 6th level Improved Haste that more closely resembles the BG1 Haste effect from a gameplay perspective.
So yeah. The original Oil of Speed did double your attack rate, but it was also mechanically tied to the Haste spell (and effect), which were refined—and nerfed—in BG2.
@Adul General rant, not directed at any specific user, just a common excuse people have been using to prevent bugfixes and better implementation in the EEs.
The description tells you it doubles apr right where it says, "This oil increases the movement speed and capabilities of the imbiber by 100%", an increase of 100% is double. And it being implemented as haste (which doubled your apr at the time) is inconsequential, because it did what it stated.
This is the original implementation of the oil of speed in core BG1. So when people complained that it was a betrayal of the core game when Beamdog fixed the error in the 2.5 beta, THAT WAS FLAT OUT LIES. Its not about "staying true to the spirit of the original game" otherwise the fix would have been praised for bringing the EE MORE IN LINE WITH THE ORIGINAL. Its about enforcing a certain playstyle on the entire community, because a portion of the playerbase can't let go of nostalgia. Bugs can't be fixed because it doesn't match someones memory of an "ideal" Baldur's Gate that never even really existed. We can't like the new npcs, or the new expansion, or the new UI, because its a "betrayal" and "not the same" or even better, "worse only because its new". Nostalgia is TOXIC and Beamdog should stop bending over backwards to cater to it.
@ThacoBell I think the discussion is getting a little too heated to be productive, so I'll try to respond in a neutral tone in an attempt to maintain civility.
I didn't lie, and I doubt anyone else did either. When the argument started about the Oil of Speed change, my understanding, along with the general consensus in this thread, was that vanilla BG1's Oil of Speed gave +1 APR. Thanks to the efforts of forum members who have tested the original game since, we now know that was incorrect, and the vanilla BG1 Oil of Speed actually doubles the attack rate. We didn't know that was the case at the time. Being misinformed and being dishonest are not equivalents.
I personally didn't argue for the +1 APR behavior based solely on what you would call "nostalgia", or what I would call "staying true to the original game", though that certainly was a factor for me. However, I also gave the reason that I thought the Oil of Speed was OP enough as it was in BG:EE, and that hasn't changed. Since the former argument has recently flipped on its head, I haven't yet decided how this revelation affects my overall position, but right now I'm feeling pretty neutral about the whole thing.
As for the argument that bug fixes were essentially cancelled because of nostalgia, that's nonsense. The bug here was an inconsistency between the Oil of Speed's description and mechanics. Changing either of the two to be consistent with the other fixes the bug. The bug is fixed either way.
And no-one is enforcing anything on anyone. This is a single player game that can be modded and personalized to your liking. Me, I have a very long list of things that I would want to change about the game if I had my way, but I very rarely do. If I wanted to, I could invest the time and learn the skills necessary to modify these things and start making my own changes, the way I wanted them. And I believe this is the case for everyone who plays BG:EE, so... welcome to the club.
As for the argument that bug fixes were essentially cancelled because of nostalgia, that's nonsense. The bug here was an inconsistency between the Oil of Speed's description and mechanics. Changing either of the two to be consistent with the other fixes the bug. The bug is fixed either way.
As for the argument that bug fixes were essentially cancelled because of nostalgia, that's nonsense. The bug here was an inconsistency between the Oil of Speed's description and mechanics. Changing either of the two to be consistent with the other fixes the bug. The bug is fixed either way.
that's true. i hope everyone understands that.
Except that this fix isn't consistent with original functionality.
Except that this fix isn't consistent with original functionality.
If I understand correctly, the potion works like in BG2. There are other cases where things were working differently between BG1 and BG2 and the Enhanced Edition often choose the BG2 behavior because the engine is based on the BG2 one.
Comments
The spell does need to hit its intended target when appropriate though, which currently it doesn't. The worst offender occurs when you cast the spell at a target within ~5ft, it almost never hits them.
I've found at least one way to fix this with the currently available mechanics, but it results in it always hitting the primary target at least once, even if they have clearly moved out of its path.
It's also worth noting that Baldur's Gate is a CRPG, not an action-RPG. You can't avoid spells cast at you by moving behind walls, and that's intended.
Edit: Just tested it in vBG1 at Silke. The projectile followed me.
In the BGEE v2.5 beta, the spell is still using a broken AoE projectile, it's not perfect, but at least some aspects of its function have been fixed in 2.5:
- It now bounces multiple times.
- It no longer bounces off creatures.
It still needs to hit targets it should hit (width), and it needs to hit the initial target when very close.
The IWDEE v2.5 release didn't even get some of these fixes, as it's still using a functional AoE projectile.
In its previous iterations the spell at least had the guarantee of hitting the initial target. That isn't currently the case.
I'm talking about the fact that custom soundsets seem to work fine in BG2:EE, but in BG:EE there are several sound cues, like selection sounds, that won't play. Since this is an engine issue and it's fixed in BG2:EE, it seems likely that whenever the fix was implemented, the devs simply forgot to port it back to BG:EE.
Please, someone put this very, very old issue finally out of its misery.
Was anything changed regarding this dream event?
Edit: It does indeed happen later. Looks like it's been delayed to trigger after the Irenicus fight in Spellhold.
It explains where the bug is coming from (and in the same time addresses a lot of concerns): In BG1, the oil doubled the APR and the description said so as well, while in BG2, the oil gave +1 APR and the description said so as well.
The bug exists because the Enhanced Editions were using the description from BG1, but the behavior from BG2.
The fix is to change the description, which can be based on the original BG2 description:
This oil increases the movement and combat capabilities of the imbiber. The movement rate is doubled and the user gains one extra attack per round. Thus, a movement rate of 9 becomes 18, and a character normally able to attack once in a round attacks twice. This does not reduce spellcasting time, however. The duration of the effect is 1 hour.
STATISTICS:
Special: Doubles movement rate and grants 1 extra attack per round
Duration: 1 hour
Weight: 1
This is the Oil of Speed's description in vanilla BG1 + TotSC:
Notice that it does not explicitly state that it doubles APR, in fact it's written in sort of terribly nebulous terms: "increases the combat capabilities of the imbiber by 100%". And then it follows that up with an example of someone with 1 APR, which would increase to 2 APR. That specific example would hold true regardless of whether the potion doubled your APR or gave you +1 APR. So the description is vague and doesn't really land on either side of the argument definitely, although it could sort of imply an APR increase of 100%, if you wanted to read that into it.
But what of the game mechanics? How much APR does the Oil of Speed actually give you when you drink it? The answer is... *drum roll* zero. The Oil of Speed doesn't change your APR stat at all:
It does, however, give you the Haste effect, which, in BG1, was implemented in a way that it doubled your character's animation framerate, and therefore made him move and attack twice as fast. The Haste spell did the same thing, and its description actually stated so:
When BG2 came around, the devs changed quite a bit in the new engine, including the mechanics of a lot of spells. They created a new Haste effect, one that didn't just double your animation framerate, but also provided them with more gradual control over the affected character's movement and attack rates. They changed the 3rd level Haste spell and the Oil of Speed to only give +1 APR, and introduced the 6th level Improved Haste that more closely resembles the BG1 Haste effect from a gameplay perspective.
So yeah. The original Oil of Speed did double your attack rate, but it was also mechanically tied to the Haste spell (and effect), which were refined—and nerfed—in BG2.
The description tells you it doubles apr right where it says, "This oil increases the movement speed and capabilities of the imbiber by 100%", an increase of 100% is double. And it being implemented as haste (which doubled your apr at the time) is inconsequential, because it did what it stated.
This is the original implementation of the oil of speed in core BG1. So when people complained that it was a betrayal of the core game when Beamdog fixed the error in the 2.5 beta, THAT WAS FLAT OUT LIES. Its not about "staying true to the spirit of the original game" otherwise the fix would have been praised for bringing the EE MORE IN LINE WITH THE ORIGINAL. Its about enforcing a certain playstyle on the entire community, because a portion of the playerbase can't let go of nostalgia. Bugs can't be fixed because it doesn't match someones memory of an "ideal" Baldur's Gate that never even really existed. We can't like the new npcs, or the new expansion, or the new UI, because its a "betrayal" and "not the same" or even better, "worse only because its new". Nostalgia is TOXIC and Beamdog should stop bending over backwards to cater to it.
I didn't lie, and I doubt anyone else did either. When the argument started about the Oil of Speed change, my understanding, along with the general consensus in this thread, was that vanilla BG1's Oil of Speed gave +1 APR. Thanks to the efforts of forum members who have tested the original game since, we now know that was incorrect, and the vanilla BG1 Oil of Speed actually doubles the attack rate. We didn't know that was the case at the time. Being misinformed and being dishonest are not equivalents.
I personally didn't argue for the +1 APR behavior based solely on what you would call "nostalgia", or what I would call "staying true to the original game", though that certainly was a factor for me. However, I also gave the reason that I thought the Oil of Speed was OP enough as it was in BG:EE, and that hasn't changed. Since the former argument has recently flipped on its head, I haven't yet decided how this revelation affects my overall position, but right now I'm feeling pretty neutral about the whole thing.
As for the argument that bug fixes were essentially cancelled because of nostalgia, that's nonsense. The bug here was an inconsistency between the Oil of Speed's description and mechanics. Changing either of the two to be consistent with the other fixes the bug. The bug is fixed either way.
And no-one is enforcing anything on anyone. This is a single player game that can be modded and personalized to your liking. Me, I have a very long list of things that I would want to change about the game if I had my way, but I very rarely do. If I wanted to, I could invest the time and learn the skills necessary to modify these things and start making my own changes, the way I wanted them. And I believe this is the case for everyone who plays BG:EE, so... welcome to the club.
I guess it is a minor issue not dealing with 2.5 patches. Nevertheless it has been submitted. What about my ticket dealing wrong item behaviors as well?
https://support.baldursgate.com/issues/36456
https://support.baldursgate.com/issues/37211