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  • TakisMegasTakisMegas Member Posts: 835

    opinion writers are not news.


    I agree, why people still watch CNN, MSNBC, CBS or read the NYT and WP is absolutely mind blowing.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,389
    I found a useful statement of the provisions of the Hatch Act by the Congressional Research Service in 2016.

    In general terms government employees are not permitted any political activity while on duty and it seems clear that Conway has indulged in such activity while acting in her official capacity. Note though that there is an exception for political advisers - these are posts paid for from an appropriation for the Executive Office of the President. Such personnel can engage in political activity as long as no costs of such activity are borne by the US Treasury (the same exception also applies to employees appointed by the President with the advice and consent of the Senate).

    Given the nature of the charges against her I would imagine that Conway is not paid for in this way. This is the balancing provision in the law that @Balrog99 was calling for - it allows a limited number of staff to act in a partisan way to reflect political realities, while requiring that the vast bulk of government employees are not partisan (while on duty).

    The assumption under the Hatch Act is that employees who violate its provisions are acting independently - and thus the threat of dismissal by an employer who becomes aware of their activities is a real one. The Act was not set up to cover the situation where the employer supports the violations in the way the White House is currently doing.

    The White House Counsel Pat Cipollone is challenging the restrictions on the basis they violate 1st amendment rights. While it seems unlikely that challenge will succeed, if it did it would be a decision with implications for the political system on a similar scale to Citizens United.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited June 2019
    opinion writers are not news.
    TakisMegas wrote: »
    I agree, why people still watch CNN, MSNBC, CBS or read the NYT and WP is absolutely mind blowing.

    It's okay to have an opinion. Everyone has biases - some people like beef, some people prefer fish. Nothing inherently wrong there - but when you are paid to push a narrative.... That's no good. Especially when you pretend to be "news".

    Gee, looking at that list, it's odd you didn't mention the biggest intentional propaganda network. Curious you didn't mention FOX NEWS. Lol

    Hannity, Tammi Lahren, Tucker Carlson, and the rest of the well paid shills on Fox feel sad you didn't mention their outlet.


    CcfK2dAUcAAbNwm.jpg

  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited June 2019
    The Head of the Federal Election Commission had to make a statement because some people, like the President, don't know what are criminal acts during elections.

  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    edited June 2019
    This whole Trump experience has exposed one thing to me. Congress is a sham. Co-equal power? What a joke. They've been abdicating their power to the executive and the judicial for so long that they don't even know what they're supposed to be doing. A bunch of do-nothing blowhards if you ask me...
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited June 2019
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    This whole Trump experience has exposed one thing to me. Congress is a sham. Co-equal power? What a joke. They've been abdicating their power to the executive and the judicial for so long that they don't even know what they're supposed to be doing. A bunch of do-nothing blowhards if you ask me...

    Well the House Democrats are trying to do things like protect peoples rights and provide election security.

    Republican Mitch McConnell in the Senate is being allowed to almost single handedly block all bills. He's majority leader and Republicans could put him aside at any point but they haven't. So yeah he's doing nothing except confirming corrupt activist judges.

    If you want to point to a problem of government doing nothing- it's the Republicans. They've exploded the debt too on those tax cuts for the rich. If you want a government that functions, throw out every single Republican. Right now they are all 100% corrupt. Some Dems need to go too but not 100% - maybe 30%.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/house/448376-pelosi-shows-off-poster-of-mcconnells-graveyard

    Here's Marsha Blackburn Republican blocking a bill requiring campaigns to alert the FBI to foreign assistance
    https://www.axios.com/marsha-blackburn-foreign-offers-assistance-campaigns-fab324f4-a630-41aa-9b90-a6fc4ca5c5d0.html

    58 House Republicans just voted against the bipartisan disaster relief bill that had been blocked and delayed three times by Republicans. Trump signed it later so these stunts delaying aid was just intended to be an asshole apparently to people who need aid.
    Https://thinkprogress.org/house-republicans-vote-against-bipartisan-disaster-relief-bill-106b2c2518ee/
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited June 2019
    Yesterday (magically), we had Trump and Pompeo out blaming Iran for an oil tanker attack in the Gulf. The timing, after Trump's comments, was incredibly suspect from the beginning. Then they released a grainy video last night of Iranian's supposedly REMOVING a mine from the boat. But guess what?? It appears it was their own failed attempt at manufacturing a Gulf of Tonkin situation:


    When and if a serious military situation arises, there is NO reasonable person who can possibly believe what this crowd is selling. Both because they have lied on a daily basis from day one and he has Iraq war cheerleaders and architects at his side. I didn't believe a single word of this last night even AFTER the video came out, and now the owner of the tanker is saying the manner in which the US military is describing the attack isn't even how it took place. They have been keeping this Iran card in their pocket this whole time, and it inches ever closer. And just like Bush and Cheney, they are manufacturing the entire thing with bullshit claims and provocation.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited June 2019
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  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    This whole Trump experience has exposed one thing to me. Congress is a sham. Co-equal power? What a joke. They've been abdicating their power to the executive and the judicial for so long that they don't even know what they're supposed to be doing. A bunch of do-nothing blowhards if you ask me...

    Right, just get rid of it. What could go wrong?
    Incidentally, what a great setup for follow-up films. Regional conflicts with old imperial regional governors, that could have major implications, yadda yadda yadda. You could do something smart with the aftermath of Episode 6. Instead we got the political situation reset and a recycled plot about a ridiculous super-weapon that eats suns and shoots meteors through hyperspace... or something. I really couldn't figure out how that thing worked.

    I never said get rid of it. They need to step up and act like a co-equal branch of government though. Sitting back and blaming presidents and courts for everything seems to be their only function anymore. I'm not at all saying only this particular group of congressmen either. For as long as I can remember they've been playing this blame-game and acting like helpless children. They've even went so far as to let presidents legislate on matters that were never intended (executive orders anybody?). They're a bunch of ninnies constantly worried about keeping their jobs. If a majority of them stood up and said enough is enough they'd have two years to get some real shit done before they had to run again, 6 years for a Senator...
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited June 2019
    relevant from The Onion:

    Bleeding John Bolton Stumbles Into Capitol Building Claiming That Iran Shot Him

    b4izlbcwcv2iosslgfz9.jpg


    https://politics.theonion.com/bleeding-john-bolton-stumbles-into-capitol-building-cla-1834847900

    “Help, help, I’ve just been attacked by a large Middle Eastern country around 636,000 square miles in size,” said the national security advisor, "the incident had happened so fast it is possible I’ve been attacked by Venezuela." He continued "I could smell enriched uranium coming from one of its urban centers."

    ---

    BTW Japanese Oil Tanker Owner Says U.S. Is Wrong About the Gulf Attack

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/japanese-oil-tanker-owner-says-us-is-wrong-about-gulf-attack

    Think about how insane all of this is. A Norwegian and a Japanese oil tanker were supposedly “attacked.” Yet neither the governments of Norway nor of Japan are calling for war or attacks ??.
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    Just remember, boat attacks are usually how Americans start entering wars:

    The Lusitania in WW1
    Pearl Harbour in WW2
    USS Stark for the first Gulf War
    USS Cole in Yemen for the War on Terror

    That or fearing Commies.
  • BillyYankBillyYank Member Posts: 2,768
    edited June 2019
    deltago wrote: »
    Just remember, boat attacks are usually how Americans start entering wars:

    The Lusitania in WW1
    Pearl Harbour in WW2
    USS Stark for the first Gulf War
    USS Cole in Yemen for the War on Terror

    That or fearing Commies.

    USS Maddox at the Gulf of Tonkin.
    USS Maine at Havana.
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  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    edited June 2019
    I knew I forgot a well known one with the Maine. Didn’t know about the Maddox. I always assumed Vietnam was a clear example of mission creep.

    Edit: I also find it hilarious that twitter is trolling Trump with #JohnMcCainDay today on Trump’s Birthday today.
  • TakisMegasTakisMegas Member Posts: 835
    edited June 2019
    opinion writers are not news.
    TakisMegas wrote: »
    I agree, why people still watch CNN, MSNBC, CBS or read the NYT and WP is absolutely mind blowing.

    It's okay to have an opinion. Everyone has biases - some people like beef, some people prefer fish. Nothing inherently wrong there - but when you are paid to push a narrative.... That's no good. Especially when you pretend to be "news".

    Gee, looking at that list, it's odd you didn't mention the biggest intentional propaganda network. Curious you didn't mention FOX NEWS. Lol

    Hannity, Tammi Lahren, Tucker Carlson, and the rest of the well paid shills on Fox feel sad you didn't mention their outlet.


    CcfK2dAUcAAbNwm.jpg

    I thought it was common knowledge that Fox and the gang are also fake news. Just boggles my mind that people still get worked up when someone criticizes "Left leaning media", like they are your family or best friend. I guess we all will never learn.

    Also, I do not like Beef.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited June 2019
    TakisMegas wrote: »
    I agree, why people still watch CNN, MSNBC, CBS or read the NYT and WP is absolutely mind blowing.
    .....
    I thought it was common knowledge that Fox and the gang are also fake news. Just boggles my mind that people still get worked up when someone criticizes "Left leaning media", like they are your family or best friend. I guess we all will never learn.

    Also, I do not like Beef.

    CNN, MSNBC, CBS, NYT, WP are not left leaning media. They're Corporate News outlets. They want to protect the status quo and corporate interests. Ok fine, MSNBC seems to be close to being an arm of the Democratic establishment.

    Individually there might be left leaning people in those outlets or they may be based and recruiting people in blue states. That's probably because they're based in big cities which tend to be blue.
    They are not designed to intentionally push narratives and stories to be left leaning.

    On the other hand, Fox is propaganda and they intentionally spin every story to 'Republican good, Democrats bad'. Their news is filled with opinion journalists. These opinion guys tell you what to think. Usually it's just a monologue from one guy telling you what to think. They rarely interview others - usually dopes or if legitimate people they just tell over them. It's pure propaganda. It's not news, it's being told how to think.

    Corporate CNN has roundtables with pundits from both sides featuring lying Republicans and giving them a platform. Their main hosts are actually news people who try, to a fault, to be neutral. So they could feature for example a dickhead Republicans who say they want to genocide brown people and a Democratic strategist who says maybe that's a bad idea. Your CNN host will say "gee the answer must be somewhere in the middle". That is not left leaning, their goal is pro-establishment.
    Post edited by smeagolheart on
  • BallpointManBallpointMan Member Posts: 1,659
    edited June 2019
    I must be going crazy, but I thought I saw a post on here an hour or so ago about the difference between left, center and right as it relates to politicians, and cited Clinton, Obama, Biden and Harris as centrists.

    I just wanted to (somewhat) rebut that idea. Different metrics can be used to evaluate people.

    Take Kamala Harris. She has a fairly centrist to center-left career as the AG of California

    However, since joining the Senate, she's actually the *second* most liberal senator on economic issues (Beyond even Bernie Sanders in that period of time)

    Per DW Nominate:

    https://voteview.com/congress/senate


    Do I think she's the second most liberal senator in all of the senate? Probably not really. But I'd argue she's not "Centrist" at all. She's solidly progressive, Probably in the most progressive third of the Senate.

    Biden's a (little) to her right. Sanders and Warren are a little to her left.

    Similarly, you see a lot of people (most on Twitter) who say things like "Biden is Center Right" - which is flatly absurd, unless you're speaking from the context of European politics (In that case, Bernie Sanders is Center Left). If you only looked at Biden and the Crime bill you might think he was centrist, but in the intervening 25 years. he's solidly liberal. Middle third, maybe on the border of the right-most third of the party. He's nowhere near Manchin, for example.
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  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    I must be going crazy, but I thought I saw a post on here an hour or so ago about the difference between left, center and right as it relates to politicians, and cited Clinton, Obama, Biden and Harris as centrists.

    I just wanted to (somewhat) rebut that idea. Different metrics can be used to evaluate people.

    Take Kamala Harris. She has a fairly centrist to center-left career as the AG of California

    However, since joining the Senate, she's actually the *second* most liberal senator on economic issues (Beyond even Bernie Sanders in that period of time)

    Per DW Nominate:

    https://voteview.com/congress/senate


    Do I think she's the second most liberal senator in all of the senate? Probably not really. But I'd argue she's not "Centrist" at all. She's solidly progressive, Probably in the most progressive third of the Senate.

    Biden's a (little) to her right. Sanders and Warren are a little to her left.

    Similarly, you see a lot of people (most on Twitter) who say things like "Biden is Center Right" - which is flatly absurd, unless you're speaking from the context of European politics (In that case, Bernie Sanders is Center Left). If you only looked at Biden and the Crime bill you might think he was centrist, but in the intervening 25 years. he's solidly liberal. Middle third, maybe on the border of the right-most third of the party. He's nowhere near Manchin, for example.

    There are no leftist economic issues being offered in Mitch McConnell's graveyard of Democracy.

    Yes the context of European politics is a much better measurement than US politics. The US has been dragged so far right that the center is to the left. Biden could easily pass for a Republican from the mid 80s but today you got Mitch McConnell trying to call him a crazy socialist Harris may be liberal compared to the rest of the Senate but in no way is she a leftist. In most countries she's solidly center right wing.

  • BallpointManBallpointMan Member Posts: 1,659

    There are no leftist economic issues being offered in Mitch McConnell's graveyard of Democracy.

    Yes the context of European politics is a much better measurement than US politics. The US has been dragged so far right that the center is to the left. Biden could easily pass for a Republican from the mid 80s but today you got Mitch McConnell trying to call him a crazy socialist Harris may be liberal compared to the rest of the Senate but in no way is she a leftist. In most countries she's solidly center right wing.

    And yet somehow Elizabeth Warren managed to prove her bonafides by being the most progressive senator on economic issues.

    You just repeated a solid half of the arguments I made back at me. Incidentally, you didnt mention how Bernie Sanders would be Center Left in that scenario too. Do you disagree? (Afterall, he isnt a true socialist, and a lot of European countries have a true socialist party that represents the actual left in Europe).

    I think the argument that Biden is a Republican from the 80's is facile. The GOP in the 80s were way more regressive on most issues. Mental Health. LGBTQ. Even economics. People forget what the politics of the 1980s looked like.
    The single-axis attempt to categorize beliefs and policies is pretty dumb, IMHO. They can be useful shorthand for views that go to extremes in one direction or the other, but once someone is relatively near the center, wherher their voting record is "left" or "center" will differ a lot by issue, and can thus be defined as much by which issues come to a vote, as by how they voted.

    Like, consistent votes in favor of keeping the top tax bracket at 39% would get you tagged as "liberal," but there is a big difference between favoring a 39% top bracket and favoring a 75% top bracket. The former is a solid centrist position.

    Single axis is fine for judging on specific areas. Not for nothing, but DW nominate is probably the single most useful tool we have to actually evaluate the relative position of politicians. If you have a better one, I'm all ears...
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  • BallpointManBallpointMan Member Posts: 1,659
    I'm questioning the utility of "evaluat[ing] the relative position of politicians." Sounds like rank tribalism.

    I'm confused. Every time a political position/politician/action/idea is referred to as "conservative" or "liberal" (Or centrist) it is an entirely relative observation.

    How do you propose to discuss the differences between political ideologies if not through comparison of people's positions.

    Afer all, in democracy you elect a person and not a position.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited June 2019
    Ok so, before we begin here, let's set the stage. This altercation happened because the daughter of the woman in the video accidentally walked out of a store with a .99 cent Barbie doll without paying for it. Likely because her daughter is 4-years old, and kids grab shit off shelves. Apparently that led to this madness. I don't care what anybody says, I don't want to hear about parts of the video that are "missing". NO white woman in this country holding a child in her arms (and pregnant by the way) would EVER be treated like this by a cop. This lunatic isn't fit to clean toilets if it involves being within 100 yards of other human beings, much less a cop. These pieces of shit belong in a jail cell themselves, at a minimum. And people wonder why black athletes take a knee. Absolute madness. In what universe do you approach a car with THIS kind of anger and hostility and threaten to shoot a woman holding a baby in the head because she hasn't yet opened a car door?? Nothing but bullying cowards:


    In the end, there wasn't a single arrest made (again, because the "crime" was a 4-year old child leaving the store with a generic Barbie doll under her arm and a Family Dollar Store employee calling the cops). Apparently the family is suing the police force for $10 million due to civil rights violations. Seems a little low to me. Because it's clear the cops in this video have put a price on the lives of black mothers and children. To them, they are worth exactly .99 cents.
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    Ok so, before we begin here, let's set the stage. This altercation happened because the daughter of the woman in the video accidentally walked out of a store with a .99 cent Barbie doll without paying for it. Likely because her daughter is 4-years old, and kids grab shit off shelves. Apparently that led to this madness. I don't care what anybody says, I don't want to hear about parts of the video that are "missing". NO white woman in this country holding a child in her arms (and pregnant by the way) would EVER be treated like this by a cop. This lunatic isn't fit to clean toilets if it involves being within 100 yards of other human beings, much less a cop. These pieces of shit belong in a jail cell themselves, at a minimum. And people wonder why black athletes take a knee. Absolute madness. In what universe do you approach a car with THIS kind of anger and hostility and threaten to shoot a woman holding a baby in the head because she hasn't yet opened a car door?? Nothing but bullying cowards:


    In the end, there wasn't a single arrest made (again, because the "crime" was a 4-year old child leaving the store with a generic Barbie doll under her arm and a Family Dollar Store employee calling the cops). Apparently the family is suing the police force for $10 million due to civil rights violations. Seems a little low to me. Because it's clear the cops in this video have put a price on the lives of black mothers and children. To them, they are worth exactly .99 cents.

    Now that is excessive, even if they stole $50, 000 in jewelry. I would sue too.

    Box the car in, tap on the window. Explain why you were called. Retrieve the doll from the kid and hopefully explain to the kid why taking things that don't belong to you is wrong. Return the merchandise to the store. Let the parents go with a warning.

    I am also surprised the officers arrived that fast unless it is in a different parking lot and these guys were BOLOing the car, which makes it even worse.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited June 2019
    From what I read they didn't even confront them until the parents were back home in the parking lot of their apartment. So, ostensibly, the officers knew EXACTLY what the problem was (if one can even call it a problem) which is that a child who could still technically be classified as a toddler walked out of a store with less than a dollar in merchandise. So, let's assume that absolute worst here, which would be that the parents engaged in an elaborate plot to convince their daughter to steal this doll because they couldn't afford it (and if one has ever been inside a dollar store and seen the quality and price of the toys inside, they will immediately realize how ridiculous and far-fetched that is). Even if that is the case, these officers are acting as if it is perfectly reasonable to assume the entire thing was staged simply to ambush them and put their lives at risk. Because I can't think of a single other reason to have your weapons drawn, much less start screaming that you are going to blow someone's head off. I don't think I have ever been as angry and unhinged about ANYTHING at ANY point in my life as this cop was with this woman in the car. If this is his reaction to something this mundane and inconsequential, I shudder to think what he must be like in even moderately tense circumstances. I'd also lay heavy money on him being a domestic abuser.
  • dunbardunbar Member Posts: 1,603
    edited June 2019
    @jjstraka34 "I'd also lay heavy money on him being a domestic abuser." Isn't that the same sort of prejudgment that you're (quite correctly imo) accusing the police offer of? Tacking a throwaway line like that onto the end of a comment can often devalue all that has gone before it (this is meant to be constructive criticism by the way).
  • AmmarAmmar Member Posts: 1,297
    dunbar wrote: »
    @jjstraka34 "I'd also lay heavy money on him being a domestic abuser." Isn't that the same sort of prejudgment that you're (quite correctly imo) accusing the police offer of? Tacking a throwaway line like that onto the end of a comment can often devalue all that has gone before it (this is meant to be constructive criticism by the way).

    I am not @jjstraka34 but I think it is a very different sort of prejudgment, since it is based on expressed behaviour and obvious anger issues.

    I'd not lay money on it myself, but agree that the likelihood is at least above average (more due to the anger issues than the racism).
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited June 2019
    I mean yeah, it's because of this kind of hair-trigger anger we are seeing on display here. A woman holding a baby who (based on the dialogue) not opening up a car door fast enough because it is damaged or malfunctioning (anyone who has ever had a beater car knows all about this problem) isn't something that would cause any normal person to (literally) threaten to shoot her in the head. That indicates to me something deeply, deeply wrong under the hood.

    And why is it in all these police videos I feel like we are watching the same thing. It's always cops repeating over and over "you're not complying, you're not complying" as if once they say it 5 times they then have the right to just start firing if they choose. How is anyone supposed to react when you approach them with a loaded weapon threatening to kill them??

    The problem is at least 3 or 4 fold. 1.) someone with these kind of manic anger issues should not be a cop 2.) racism, pure and simple 3.) a complete lack of training or officers who just ignore whatever that training is and 4.) the idea that is now ingrained into the head of police that they are in a "war" with citizens, and that there are NO circumstances where they won't shoot first and ask questions later.

    If one cannot handle a situation involving accidental petty shoplifting by a toddler without believing your life is in such mortal danger that you threaten to kill her mother, then it's time to find another line of work, because you clearly aren't cut out for this one. There are risks in policing, which is why you are given lethal weapons and unlimited authority. In return, you are EXPECTED to take on a certain amount of that risk to protect the public, even those who may be suspects unless they are actually about to attempt to harm you. That is not longer the mentality whatsoever.

    You know what a solution to this situation anyone actually worthy of being a cop would be?? Waiting until the family is back inside their apartment, calmly knocking on their door and saying:

    "Excuse me ma'am, we had someone at the dollar store call us and report they saw your daughter take a doll out with her without paying for it. I know parenting can be a challenge and you can't have eyes everywhere at once, but could you possibly go get the doll??" (Mother goes and gets the doll). "Ok, here is what I'm gonna do. I'll go back to the store and pay for the item for you, if you could just let your daughter know not to do this again in the future. Sorry for all the trouble, I'm sure this is an uncomfortable situation for you. Have a good day".

    How hard would that have been?? It's not hard to have empathy a be a good person in the moment. I was once Christmas shopping at Wal-Mart, and a young kid was purchasing something in front of me by himself. It became clear to me within about 20 seconds that he was buying presents for his mom and dad, and that is why he was in line by himself and not with them, to make sure it would still be a surprise. It was also clear he was using his own money. He had ended up miscalculating what it would cost, and was simply about 5 dollars short. He looked totally dejected. I immediately reached into my wallet and handed the remaining balance to the clerk. I wasn't exactly swimming in money at the time, but it wasn't a tough call.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    I mean yeah, it's because of this kind of hair-trigger anger we are seeing on display here. A woman holding a baby who (based on the dialogue) not opening up a car door fast enough because it is damaged or malfunctioning (anyone who has ever had a beater car knows all about this problem) isn't something that would cause any normal person to (literally) threaten to shoot her in the head. That indicates to me something deeply, deeply wrong under the hood.

    And why is it in all these police videos I feel like we are watching the same thing. It's always cops repeating over and over "you're not complying, you're not complying" as if once they say it 5 times they then have the right to just start firing if they choose. How is anyone supposed to react when you approach them with a loaded weapon threatening to kill them??

    The problem is at least 3 or 4 fold. 1.) someone with these kind of manic anger issues should not be a cop 2.) racism, pure and simple 3.) a complete lack of training or officers who just ignore whatever that training is and 4.) the idea that is now ingrained into the head of police that they are in a "war" with citizens, and that there are NO circumstances where they won't shoot first and ask questions later.

    If one cannot handle a situation involving accidental petty shoplifting by a toddler without believing your life is in such mortal danger that you threaten to kill her mother, then it's time to find another line of work, because you clearly aren't cut out for this one. There are risks in policing, which is why you are given lethal weapons and unlimited authority. In return, you are EXPECTED to take on a certain amount of that risk to protect the public, even those who may be suspects unless they are actually about to attempt to harm you. That is not longer the mentality whatsoever.

    You know what a solution to this situation anyone actually worthy of being a cop would be?? Waiting until the family is back inside their apartment, calmly knocking on their door and saying:

    "Excuse me ma'am, we had someone at the dollar store call us and report they saw your daughter take a doll out with her without paying for it. I know parenting can be a challenge and you can't have eyes everywhere at once, but could you possibly go get the doll??" (Mother goes and gets the doll). "Ok, here is what I'm gonna do. I'll go back to the store and pay for the item for you, if you could just let your daughter know not to do this again in the future. Sorry for all the trouble, I'm sure this is an uncomfortable situation for you. Have a good day".

    How hard would that have been?? It's not hard to have empathy a be a good person in the moment. I was once Christmas shopping at Wal-Mart, and a young kid was purchasing something in front of me by himself. It became clear to me within about 20 seconds that he was buying presents for his mom and dad, and that is why he was in line by himself and not with them, to make sure it would still be a surprise. It was also clear he was using his own money. He had ended up miscalculating what it would cost, and was simply about 5 dollars short. He looked totally dejected. I immediately reached into my wallet and handed the remaining balance to the clerk. I wasn't exactly swimming in money at the time, but it wasn't a tough call.

    I'll hold off on judgment until all of the facts are in myself...
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited June 2019
    Well, some more facts from a local television news report who got ahold of the police report:

    1.) Officers turned off their body and dash cams, or never had them on in the first place.

    2.) Lied or omitted key incidents in the report. No mention is made of threatening the mother, only that the officer "feared she may have a weapon". Another portion for the other cop said he made the father "spread his legs". There is video showing him leg sweeping him from behind instead, which almost makes him fall on his face.

    3.) This last one is just my editorializing. These men are cowards:


    If we are going to sit here and PRETEND that dash and body cams are going to fix this problem (and they won't) then we at least need to make it IMPOSSIBLE for cops to turn them off. If they do turn them off, for ANY reason whatsoever, they lose their job, on the spot for malicious intent. Of course, who knows if this police department even has dash or body cams in the first place. And it's not like it matters anyway. We can show 10,000 of these videos and people will still defend them and even if this video was entered as evidence in court, half the jury would probably ignore it's existence. I mean seriously, is there ANY situation where a cop can't just say "I feared for my life, I thought they had a weapon" and get away with basically anything just by uttering those words??

    Again, they KNEW it was a shoplifting call, and they ostensibly knew a.) the value of what was stolen (.99 cents) and b.) who stole it (a 4-year old girl). Are they seriously THAT worried they are walking into a violent ambush in the residential parking lot where these people live?? Seriously, grow some balls.
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