Near the end of the video, when back up has arrived you see two other officers take over for the two hot heads and both approached it more respectfully. Obviously one had to pat down the father against the car, but the screaming from there stopped.
The other is worse however, the second cop with his hand up in a calming manner asks the mother what is going on here. She answers I don’t know, when the hot head cop pretty much jumps over him and starts screaming in her face about complying again.
If the two backup cops make it to the scene first, I doubt it would have escalated like this.
And it should be mandatory for body cams. If the body cams are off during a confrontation, any charges against the individual should be dropped. You cannot take an officer at his word, I would say anymore, but the public never should have.
You won’t have this BS if an officers every action is being recorded.
But this is also Joe Arpaio’s state. If someone like him is celebrated, these guys have their role model.
I'm not a huge fan of cops by any means so if it pans out to be as it appears then at the very least these assholes should lose their jobs. Authority comes with obligations...
Near the end of the video, when back up has arrived you see two other officers take over for the two hot heads and both approached it more respectfully. Obviously one had to pat down the father against the car, but the screaming from there stopped.
The other is worse however, the second cop with his hand up in a calming manner asks the mother what is going on here. She answers I don’t know, when the hot head cop pretty much jumps over him and starts screaming in her face about complying again.
If the two backup cops make it to the scene first, I doubt it would have escalated like this.
And it should be mandatory for body cams. If the body cams are off during a confrontation, any charges against the individual should be dropped. You cannot take an officer at his word, I would say anymore, but the public never should have.
You won’t have this BS if an officers every action is being recorded.
But this is also Joe Arpaio’s state. If someone like him is celebrated, these guys have their role model.
There are also two stories I read in the last 24 hours that while in no way directly related, speak to the authoritarian (I would say straight-up fascist) culture in American law enforcement. One is a series of text messages revealed in the investigation of an ICE officer who ran down a migrant with his truck, and the other is an investigation revealing active duty police officers (by the hundreds) actively involved in white supremacist and militia groups:
Near the end of the video, when back up has arrived you see two other officers take over for the two hot heads and both approached it more respectfully. Obviously one had to pat down the father against the car, but the screaming from there stopped.
The other is worse however, the second cop with his hand up in a calming manner asks the mother what is going on here. She answers I don’t know, when the hot head cop pretty much jumps over him and starts screaming in her face about complying again.
If the two backup cops make it to the scene first, I doubt it would have escalated like this.
And it should be mandatory for body cams. If the body cams are off during a confrontation, any charges against the individual should be dropped. You cannot take an officer at his word, I would say anymore, but the public never should have.
You won’t have this BS if an officers every action is being recorded.
But this is also Joe Arpaio’s state. If someone like him is celebrated, these guys have their role model.
There are also two stories I read in the last 24 hours that while in no way directly related, speak to the authoritarian (I would say straight-up fascist) culture in American law enforcement. One is a series of text messages revealed in the investigation of an ICE officer who ran down a migrant with his truck, and the other is an investigation revealing active duty police officers (by the hundreds) actively involved in white supremacist and militia groups:
According to Wikipedia there are approximately 900,000 police officers (state, local and federal) in the US with authority to make actual arrests. Is it really surprising that some will be extremists? If 400 are white-supremacists that might even be below the national average. I'm not saying it's not a problem, but it certainly doesn't amount to a 'fascist culture' in American law enforcement. There are over 300 million people in this country. Some amount of them are going to be on the extremes whether they're cops, pastors, lawyers, doctors, teachers, whatever. Are all teachers 'fascists' if you find a few hundred of them in racist Facebook groups? I get it, there are bad cops. I've run into a few myself. That doesn't mean they're all bad. They're certainly not all Fascists. That word gets thrown around so much it hardly has meaning anymore...
Excellent point, @Balrog99. I do think it's a significant issue, though, if we're talking about occupations like a police officer or a teacher. They're not the only important jobs out there, but our society is much more in danger if there's an extremist teacher or police officer than an extremist garbage man or accountant.
Excellent point, @Balrog99. I do think it's a significant issue, though, if we're talking about occupations like a police officer or a teacher. They're not the only important jobs out there, but our society is much more in danger if there's an extremist teacher or police officer than an extremist garbage man or accountant.
Exactly why i never said it wasn't a problem. I'm just saying that it's not as rampant as was being alluded to. The problem with having a huge population is you can find somebody engaging in any depravity you want if you look hard enough. That doesn't mean we're being overrun with 'evil' though. It's just the law of averages...
There are multiple reasons why an average job having an extremist in a position isn't remotely the same as a police officer (or teacher, but especially a cop). The first being that if, say, a garbageman refuses to pick up trash in a black neighborhood, that will last approximately one week before his boss starts getting calls about it, he has to admit he didn't, and gets fired on the spot. What cops have to do to get fired is actively be caught on video planting evidence, killing someone with no justification etc etc. And even THEN, it's basically at best a 50/50 proposition. The Cleveland PD is trying to REHIRE the cop who killed Tamir Rice.
The other point is that a extremist garbageman does not have any "power" over you. An extremist, racist police officer has pretty much dictatorial authority over any person of color they decide they want to pull over or detain for whatever reason, and can literally ruin their life or end it at a moment's notice. Here is a report from Missouri in which, despite being a much smaller slice of the population, black motorists are 91% more likely to be stopped than white ones. 91%. This comes days after the same story of racist social media messages from active duty police officers, including many in St. Louis. Anyone who has even talked casually to an African-American co-worker in their life will confirm this is EXACTLY how they are treated. Any single one of them will have been pulled over more times in 6 months than you have in your entire life:
Considering that if a station lets even one bad cop continue operating, then the ENTIRE STATION is bad. There are no lone wolf bad cops. They are actively encouraged to keep acting in this way by their fellow officers. So I don't buy the "some bad cops" duck. Entire stations are worthless if they knowingly allow even one of these monsters to keep operating.
You'd THINK supposedly fiscally prudent conservative citizens would have a major problem with their local tax dollars paying out multi-million dollar abuse and harassment settlements. But I've never heard a single peep about this being a "waste of taxpayer dollars" like, oh say, food stamps. So if the citizens paying for this out of pocket simply don't care because it's keeping the people they want kept in place kept in place (and that is clearly seen as a GOOD use of their tax dollars) then the only possible solution would be for these settlements to come out of police union funds. Which will never happen. Because police unions, which are by far the most egregious ones, are also the only ones Republican lawmakers support. And if the public doesn't care where or what this money is being used for, and if the cops continue to suffer no consequences beyond temporary desk duty, nothing will change.
This cell-phone video trend has been going on for at least 5 years now, simpy revealing what has always been taking place. It was a technology perfectly positioned to document these abuses. And it has. And despite that, despite dozens upon dozens of documented incidents on video staring us in the face, the needle has barely moved. No wonder so many police unions support Trump, they have the same outlook on wrongdoing. The attitude is to lie about what is staring us in the face and adopt the "yeah, so what, who is going to stop us??" stance. The answer, in both cases, is no one.
Considering that if a station lets even one bad cop continue operating, then the ENTIRE STATION is bad. There are no lone wolf bad cops. They are actively encouraged to keep acting in this way by their fellow officers. So I don't buy the "some bad cops" duck. Entire stations are worthless if they knowingly allow even one of these monsters to keep operating.
I disagree for a few reasons:
1. Cops usually work independently or with a partner. If they lie in their note taking or reasoning why they are stopping someone, supervisors won’t know what is going on. One complaint won’t force a bad officer off the force. It would multiple complaints stemming from different situations for a station to acted, but then:
2. Unions will step in to protect the officer. It is why they get paid leave or administration duty while an investigation is ongoing. This is one of the reasons why bodycams aren’t mandatory yet. Unions are fighting them for the officers “privacy” reasons.
3. If an officer is in a corrupt situation (such as their commanding officers are committing bad behaviour) they may just put their heads down, go to work, do their job and go home. Rocking the boat gets harassment directed at them or other consequences such as grave yard shifts or other crap duties. They didn’t sign up to fight the system, they signed up to be a police officer.
4. Staffing quotas can also play a role. If you need X number of officers to police a community and you want to fire 10% of them because they are corrupt, you can’t do it unless you are willing to give the good cops overtime, and you may not have the budget for it. You also can’t hire 10% more cops first unless the municipality is willing to budget it, which chances they won’t. Basically the supervisors would have to target one corrupt officer at a time, go through a full investigation with the union first to get them replaced. videos like the one above maybe a godsend in these situations as it quickens this process.
You'd THINK supposedly fiscally prudent conservative citizens would have a major problem with their local tax dollars paying out multi-million dollar abuse and harassment settlements. But I've never heard a single peep about this being a "waste of taxpayer dollars" like, oh say, food stamps. So if the citizens paying for this out of pocket simply don't care because it's keeping the people they want kept in place kept in place (and that is clearly seen as a GOOD use of their tax dollars) then the only possible solution would be for these settlements to come out of police union funds. Which will never happen. Because police unions, which are by far the most egregious ones, are also the only ones Republican lawmakers support. And if the public doesn't care where or what this money is being used for, and if the cops continue to suffer no consequences beyond temporary desk duty, nothing will change.
This cell-phone video trend has been going on for at least 5 years now, simpy revealing what has always been taking place. It was a technology perfectly positioned to document these abuses. And it has. And despite that, despite dozens upon dozens of documented incidents on video staring us in the face, the needle has barely moved. No wonder so many police unions support Trump, they have the same outlook on wrongdoing. The attitude is to lie about what is staring us in the face and adopt the "yeah, so what, who is going to stop us??" stance. The answer, in both cases, is no one.
Actually they do care and the argument goes something like:
“why is my tax dollars being used to pay off criminals? Who cares how they were arrested, they broke the law and should be put in jail.”
Oh man, this will surely end well.....I wouldn't put it past Trump at this point to make him Press Secretary, wouldn't be anymore ridiculous than what we're already dealing with:
@deltago "1. Cops usually work independently or with a partner. If they lie in their note taking or reasoning why they are stopping someone, supervisors won’t know what is going on. One complaint won’t force a bad officer off the force. It would multiple complaints stemming from different situations for a station to acted, but then:"
Not even remotely true. There are NUMEROUS examples of officers commintting outright MURDER caught on video. THere is no, "supervisors aren't aware." If the public is aware, the force itself is aware of more. This is just an excuse.
2-3: So you agree that its corrupt? How is this even a refutation of my post?
4: Doesn't change the fact that any force that would keep a murder or abuser on the force is complicit in every wrong committed.
deltago "1. Cops usually work independently or with a partner. If they lie in their note taking or reasoning why they are stopping someone, supervisors won’t know what is going on. One complaint won’t force a bad officer off the force. It would multiple complaints stemming from different situations for a station to acted, but then:"
Not even remotely true. There are NUMEROUS examples of officers commintting outright MURDER caught on video. THere is no, "supervisors aren't aware." If the public is aware, the force itself is aware of more. This is just an excuse.
2-3: So you agree that its corrupt? How is this even a refutation of my post?
4: Doesn't change the fact that any force that would keep a murder or abuser on the force is complicit in every wrong committed.
"Considering that if a station lets even one bad cop continue operating, then the ENTIRE STATION is bad. "
This is the statement that I disagree too.
Unions exist. A station supervisor just can't fire a bad cop. Take a look at this one case: https://www.oyetimes.com/news/north-america/4970-ottawa-police-constable-harinderpal-mamak-asked-to-resign-in-7days
The corrupt activity happened in December 2007. His Trial started two months later. It took a year and half to get through trial (Feb 11 '08 - September 22 '09), then another 6 months to tell the officer to quit or face dismissal. All the while he was being paid, and still able to collect his pension.
And this guy was caught working for organized crime, relaying information about under cover cops to them.
Is the entire Ottawa force corrupt and bad because of this one individuals actions? Of course not. We're talking over 1300 sworn officers. To think like that does a great disservice to those who do take their job seriously.
@deltago "Is the entire Ottawa force corrupt and bad because of this one individuals actions? "
If the force allows the officer to operate, then yes, the entire force is corrupt.
"To think like that does a great disservice to those who do take their job seriously."
I'll take this comment seriously when officers take their job seriously enough to actually do something about the rampant murder and corruption. At this point, good officers are pretty much hypothetical.
@deltago "Is the entire Ottawa force corrupt and bad because of this one individuals actions? "
If the force allows the officer to operate, then yes, the entire force is corrupt.
"To think like that does a great disservice to those who do take their job seriously."
I'll take this comment seriously when officers take their job seriously enough to actually do something about the rampant murder and corruption. At this point, good officers are pretty much hypothetical.
Yep. All 900,000 of them. Along with all of the Canadian officers too apparently...
Frank Serpico can tell you why cops don't stand up to the rot in their midst. The thin blue line overrides everything. It's deeply embedded in the culture of policing to circle the wagons no matter WHAT the wrongdoing is or how bad. When Serpico set out to expose the corruption in his midst, he was not only blacklisted, but the rest of the force actively tried to get him killed.
There is no situation where a bunch of bank employees wouldn't report a co-worker stealing money or opening false accounts. There is no situation where a group of nurses would provide cover for another nurse they knew was poisoning patients. Cops do this kind of they all the time. It's the culture. It's fundamentally broken.
Frank Serpico can tell you why cops don't stand up to the rot in their midst. The thin blue line overrides everything. It's deeply embedded in the culture of policing to circle the wagons no matter WHAT the wrongdoing is or how bad. When Serpico set out to expose the corruption in his midst, he was not only blacklisted, but the rest of the force actively tried to get him killed.
There is no situation where a bunch of bank employees wouldn't report a co-worker stealing money or opening false accounts. There is no situation where a group of nurses would provide cover for another nurse they knew was poisoning patients. Cops do this kind of they all the time. It's the culture. It's fundamentally broken.
And in no situation does a nurse or bank teller refuse to answer an investigator's questions and get to keep her job. Yet we hear that all the time in investigations of police officers, their coworkers refusing to talk to investigators.
The less oppositional approach was no approach at all until the early-90s. Anyone who had cared to listen to what the African-American community had been saying about policing has know all this for decades if not a century. It just so happend that those LAPD officers nearly beating Rodney King to death after he was in custody proved it. And what happend?? They got off. I don't know why anyone ever thought these videos would change things. They haven't even back when it was being done by some guy across the alley with a camcorder. We have more of them, but the result, 90% of time is that jack shit is done about it. Even the guy in SC who was on tape PLANTING A TASER on a suspect he had just shot in the back while running away got a hung jury the first time. He only faced justice because his case was going to go federal afterwards in regards to civil rights violations.
I agree the problem with police is a cultural issue, but I don't think it's particularly structural. We've looked at the statistics before to demonstrate that being a policeman is not a particularly dangerous occupation. I agree that they will see lots of horrible things, but so do plenty of other workers.
On the other hand I don't think the culture of silence in the police is necessarily so different from other occupations. It might be rare for a nurse or a doctor to tolerate one of their own deliberately killing patients, but it's certainly not rare to tolerate those who are very poor at their job and kill patients accidentally. There's been a lot of work in the UK to try and change that culture, but I think there's still plenty of work to be done - and I'm quite sure that's the case in the US as well.
The desire to not rock the boat by criticizing fellow professionals is very strong. That's one of the reasons the opiod problem has got so out of control - plenty of people have known there were problems for a long time, but few of those have been willing to speak out.
The desire to not rock the boat by criticizing fellow professionals is very strong. That's one of the reasons the opiod problem has got so out of control - plenty of people have known there were problems for a long time, but few of those have been willing to speak out.
I think this is true - but isnt the issue that the "culture" of police forces (and soldiers, if we're being honest) is reinforced to support each other at all odds. Essentially, during training, they're pushed into the necessity of having each other's backs. They characterize themselves as a brotherhood. So when these bad apples come up, it's not only that urge to avoid rocking the boat(which I agree all professionals have)... but an institutionalized culture actively advising them not to?
Mitch McConnell, on FOX News tonight, called the idea of statehood for DC and Puerto Rico "full-bore socialism". So apparently socialism is now defined as the populations of those places having the same representational rights as every other citizen of this country. Again, they not only no longer don't believe in democracy, they have open disdain for it. They are showing you every single day. Puerto Rico has no say in anything at all. DC does have a vote for President, but has no voting representation in the House, and none in the Senate. This people, essentially, have NO representation by their government. None. Zero. Zilch. Yet giving it to them would be "socialism". This is after his rounds on the morning show where he said he didn't know why Jon Stewart was so "bent out of shape" about the 9/11 first responders funding. Trump is the headline grabber, but when history is written, there won't be a more obvious villain of this era than Mitch McConnell. He is the most vile, destructive force in American politics in the last quarter century.
@deltago "Is the entire Ottawa force corrupt and bad because of this one individuals actions? "
If the force allows the officer to operate, then yes, the entire force is corrupt.
"To think like that does a great disservice to those who do take their job seriously."
I'll take this comment seriously when officers take their job seriously enough to actually do something about the rampant murder and corruption. At this point, good officers are pretty much hypothetical.
Yep. All 900,000 of them. Along with all of the Canadian officers too apparently...
I can only comment on US officers. But yes, 900,000 police officers and the large majority of them are bad.
@deltago "Is the entire Ottawa force corrupt and bad because of this one individuals actions? "
If the force allows the officer to operate, then yes, the entire force is corrupt.
In the case of the Phoenix PD arrest, the officers in question filed a report that was, to put it generously, rather misleading. If they're allowed to operate, then any subsequent report they file gets called into question.
Leaving aside the elephant in the room that is race relations, the fact that this occurred undermines the credibility of their department-and will continue to do so until it's addressed.
Mitch McConnell, on FOX News tonight, called the idea of statehood for DC and Puerto Rico "full-bore socialism".
I was unaware that I supported socialism, given my position on Puerto Rico (which should have been granted Statehood--or independence--back in the 1970s). I am glad that Mitch cleared that up for me.
Mitch McConnell, on FOX News tonight, called the idea of statehood for DC and Puerto Rico "full-bore socialism".
I was unaware that I supported socialism, given my position on Puerto Rico (which should have been granted Statehood--or independence--back in the 1970s). I am glad that Mitch cleared that up for me.
I mean, the fact that it makes zero sense as far as a dictionary definition is only part of the problem. If you read through his coded messaging what he is really saying is "this would help Democrats, thus is by default socialism."
@deltago "Is the entire Ottawa force corrupt and bad because of this one individuals actions? "
If the force allows the officer to operate, then yes, the entire force is corrupt.
"To think like that does a great disservice to those who do take their job seriously."
I'll take this comment seriously when officers take their job seriously enough to actually do something about the rampant murder and corruption. At this point, good officers are pretty much hypothetical.
Yep. All 900,000 of them. Along with all of the Canadian officers too apparently...
I can only comment on US officers. But yes, 900,000 police officers and the large majority of them are bad.
Any data to back up your opinion or are you just judging by the smattering of negative press clips? I'm sure the news media is all about presenting us with stories about heroic cops or cops who go above and beyond. At best you'll find a few positive stories in local media markets (none of them on the front page). 900,000 bad cops. I better start practicing my goose-stepping...
@deltago "Is the entire Ottawa force corrupt and bad because of this one individuals actions? "
If the force allows the officer to operate, then yes, the entire force is corrupt.
"To think like that does a great disservice to those who do take their job seriously."
I'll take this comment seriously when officers take their job seriously enough to actually do something about the rampant murder and corruption. At this point, good officers are pretty much hypothetical.
Yep. All 900,000 of them. Along with all of the Canadian officers too apparently...
I can only comment on US officers. But yes, 900,000 police officers and the large majority of them are bad.
Any data to back up your opinion or are you just judging by the smattering of negative press clips? I'm sure the news media is all about presenting us with stories about heroic cops or cops who go above and beyond. At best you'll find a few positive stories in local media markets (none of them on the front page). 900,000 bad cops. I better start practicing my goose-stepping...
Probably the same reason none of the rest of us get special attention for doing what we're supposed to. But if my local news for as long as I lived in this area is any indication, there are plenty of them, just on a regional level. I mean hell, one station in this market literally runs a "Valley's Most Wanted" with the local PD logo on the screen. It's usually for some penny ante shit like meth possession or shoplifting. And it runs every day and night, making senior citizens fear for the state of what is a nearly totally safe community. I swear god, you haven't seen fear-mongering until you've watched the local evening news of a small city.
Comments
Near the end of the video, when back up has arrived you see two other officers take over for the two hot heads and both approached it more respectfully. Obviously one had to pat down the father against the car, but the screaming from there stopped.
The other is worse however, the second cop with his hand up in a calming manner asks the mother what is going on here. She answers I don’t know, when the hot head cop pretty much jumps over him and starts screaming in her face about complying again.
If the two backup cops make it to the scene first, I doubt it would have escalated like this.
And it should be mandatory for body cams. If the body cams are off during a confrontation, any charges against the individual should be dropped. You cannot take an officer at his word, I would say anymore, but the public never should have.
You won’t have this BS if an officers every action is being recorded.
But this is also Joe Arpaio’s state. If someone like him is celebrated, these guys have their role model.
There are also two stories I read in the last 24 hours that while in no way directly related, speak to the authoritarian (I would say straight-up fascist) culture in American law enforcement. One is a series of text messages revealed in the investigation of an ICE officer who ran down a migrant with his truck, and the other is an investigation revealing active duty police officers (by the hundreds) actively involved in white supremacist and militia groups:
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/matthew-bowen-border-patrol-trial-847878/
https://www.revealnews.org/article/inside-hate-groups-on-facebook-police-officers-trade-racist-memes-conspiracy-theories-and-islamophobia/?utm_source=Reveal&utm_medium=social_media&utm_campaign=twitter
According to Wikipedia there are approximately 900,000 police officers (state, local and federal) in the US with authority to make actual arrests. Is it really surprising that some will be extremists? If 400 are white-supremacists that might even be below the national average. I'm not saying it's not a problem, but it certainly doesn't amount to a 'fascist culture' in American law enforcement. There are over 300 million people in this country. Some amount of them are going to be on the extremes whether they're cops, pastors, lawyers, doctors, teachers, whatever. Are all teachers 'fascists' if you find a few hundred of them in racist Facebook groups? I get it, there are bad cops. I've run into a few myself. That doesn't mean they're all bad. They're certainly not all Fascists. That word gets thrown around so much it hardly has meaning anymore...
Exactly why i never said it wasn't a problem. I'm just saying that it's not as rampant as was being alluded to. The problem with having a huge population is you can find somebody engaging in any depravity you want if you look hard enough. That doesn't mean we're being overrun with 'evil' though. It's just the law of averages...
The other point is that a extremist garbageman does not have any "power" over you. An extremist, racist police officer has pretty much dictatorial authority over any person of color they decide they want to pull over or detain for whatever reason, and can literally ruin their life or end it at a moment's notice. Here is a report from Missouri in which, despite being a much smaller slice of the population, black motorists are 91% more likely to be stopped than white ones. 91%. This comes days after the same story of racist social media messages from active duty police officers, including many in St. Louis. Anyone who has even talked casually to an African-American co-worker in their life will confirm this is EXACTLY how they are treated. Any single one of them will have been pulled over more times in 6 months than you have in your entire life:
https://helenair.com/news/national/report-black-missouri-drivers-more-likely-to-be-stopped/article_04b08e4d-810c-564a-be96-b285bc6bb8c7.html
This cell-phone video trend has been going on for at least 5 years now, simpy revealing what has always been taking place. It was a technology perfectly positioned to document these abuses. And it has. And despite that, despite dozens upon dozens of documented incidents on video staring us in the face, the needle has barely moved. No wonder so many police unions support Trump, they have the same outlook on wrongdoing. The attitude is to lie about what is staring us in the face and adopt the "yeah, so what, who is going to stop us??" stance. The answer, in both cases, is no one.
I disagree for a few reasons:
1. Cops usually work independently or with a partner. If they lie in their note taking or reasoning why they are stopping someone, supervisors won’t know what is going on. One complaint won’t force a bad officer off the force. It would multiple complaints stemming from different situations for a station to acted, but then:
2. Unions will step in to protect the officer. It is why they get paid leave or administration duty while an investigation is ongoing. This is one of the reasons why bodycams aren’t mandatory yet. Unions are fighting them for the officers “privacy” reasons.
3. If an officer is in a corrupt situation (such as their commanding officers are committing bad behaviour) they may just put their heads down, go to work, do their job and go home. Rocking the boat gets harassment directed at them or other consequences such as grave yard shifts or other crap duties. They didn’t sign up to fight the system, they signed up to be a police officer.
4. Staffing quotas can also play a role. If you need X number of officers to police a community and you want to fire 10% of them because they are corrupt, you can’t do it unless you are willing to give the good cops overtime, and you may not have the budget for it. You also can’t hire 10% more cops first unless the municipality is willing to budget it, which chances they won’t. Basically the supervisors would have to target one corrupt officer at a time, go through a full investigation with the union first to get them replaced. videos like the one above maybe a godsend in these situations as it quickens this process.
Actually they do care and the argument goes something like:
“why is my tax dollars being used to pay off criminals? Who cares how they were arrested, they broke the law and should be put in jail.”
Not even remotely true. There are NUMEROUS examples of officers commintting outright MURDER caught on video. THere is no, "supervisors aren't aware." If the public is aware, the force itself is aware of more. This is just an excuse.
2-3: So you agree that its corrupt? How is this even a refutation of my post?
4: Doesn't change the fact that any force that would keep a murder or abuser on the force is complicit in every wrong committed.
"Considering that if a station lets even one bad cop continue operating, then the ENTIRE STATION is bad. "
This is the statement that I disagree too.
Unions exist. A station supervisor just can't fire a bad cop. Take a look at this one case:
https://www.oyetimes.com/news/north-america/4970-ottawa-police-constable-harinderpal-mamak-asked-to-resign-in-7days
The corrupt activity happened in December 2007. His Trial started two months later. It took a year and half to get through trial (Feb 11 '08 - September 22 '09), then another 6 months to tell the officer to quit or face dismissal. All the while he was being paid, and still able to collect his pension.
And this guy was caught working for organized crime, relaying information about under cover cops to them.
Is the entire Ottawa force corrupt and bad because of this one individuals actions? Of course not. We're talking over 1300 sworn officers. To think like that does a great disservice to those who do take their job seriously.
If the force allows the officer to operate, then yes, the entire force is corrupt.
"To think like that does a great disservice to those who do take their job seriously."
I'll take this comment seriously when officers take their job seriously enough to actually do something about the rampant murder and corruption. At this point, good officers are pretty much hypothetical.
Yep. All 900,000 of them. Along with all of the Canadian officers too apparently...
There is no situation where a bunch of bank employees wouldn't report a co-worker stealing money or opening false accounts. There is no situation where a group of nurses would provide cover for another nurse they knew was poisoning patients. Cops do this kind of they all the time. It's the culture. It's fundamentally broken.
And in no situation does a nurse or bank teller refuse to answer an investigator's questions and get to keep her job. Yet we hear that all the time in investigations of police officers, their coworkers refusing to talk to investigators.
On the other hand I don't think the culture of silence in the police is necessarily so different from other occupations. It might be rare for a nurse or a doctor to tolerate one of their own deliberately killing patients, but it's certainly not rare to tolerate those who are very poor at their job and kill patients accidentally. There's been a lot of work in the UK to try and change that culture, but I think there's still plenty of work to be done - and I'm quite sure that's the case in the US as well.
The desire to not rock the boat by criticizing fellow professionals is very strong. That's one of the reasons the opiod problem has got so out of control - plenty of people have known there were problems for a long time, but few of those have been willing to speak out.
I think this is true - but isnt the issue that the "culture" of police forces (and soldiers, if we're being honest) is reinforced to support each other at all odds. Essentially, during training, they're pushed into the necessity of having each other's backs. They characterize themselves as a brotherhood. So when these bad apples come up, it's not only that urge to avoid rocking the boat(which I agree all professionals have)... but an institutionalized culture actively advising them not to?
I can only comment on US officers. But yes, 900,000 police officers and the large majority of them are bad.
In the case of the Phoenix PD arrest, the officers in question filed a report that was, to put it generously, rather misleading. If they're allowed to operate, then any subsequent report they file gets called into question.
Leaving aside the elephant in the room that is race relations, the fact that this occurred undermines the credibility of their department-and will continue to do so until it's addressed.
I was unaware that I supported socialism, given my position on Puerto Rico (which should have been granted Statehood--or independence--back in the 1970s). I am glad that Mitch cleared that up for me.
I mean, the fact that it makes zero sense as far as a dictionary definition is only part of the problem. If you read through his coded messaging what he is really saying is "this would help Democrats, thus is by default socialism."
Any data to back up your opinion or are you just judging by the smattering of negative press clips? I'm sure the news media is all about presenting us with stories about heroic cops or cops who go above and beyond. At best you'll find a few positive stories in local media markets (none of them on the front page). 900,000 bad cops. I better start practicing my goose-stepping...
Probably the same reason none of the rest of us get special attention for doing what we're supposed to. But if my local news for as long as I lived in this area is any indication, there are plenty of them, just on a regional level. I mean hell, one station in this market literally runs a "Valley's Most Wanted" with the local PD logo on the screen. It's usually for some penny ante shit like meth possession or shoplifting. And it runs every day and night, making senior citizens fear for the state of what is a nearly totally safe community. I swear god, you haven't seen fear-mongering until you've watched the local evening news of a small city.